Are *that* many of us really *that* wrong?

[Stinky The Clown]

It seems really kinda simple: Raise taxes on the wealthy and reduce corporate loopholes.

It seems really kinda simple: Cut the Defense budget and watch the deficit start to shrink.

It seems really kinda simple: Eliminate the FICA cap and watch the Social Security Fund rise so high and so fast that futur6e congresses can once again steal from it.



It really does seem kinda simple, doesn't it?

[dkf]

1. I've been thinking about the SS cap...

If you raise it, doesn't that just increase our future obligations to pay SS to these folks?

[madokie]

3. I'm fine with that

[dkf]

7. Then we just borrow from the rich and increase the amount the young pay them in the future, right?

I'm skeptical of the whole SS surplus. To me it is a gimmick that makes it look like SS is solvent but does not increase the next generations ability to pay for SS plus medicare and Medicaid plus interest on the debt plus the regular budget.

To me, it just increases the proportion that goes towards the big programs while starving the rest of government. That may actually be fine with the pubs though.

[fasttense]

9. NO, they are already collecting Social Security.

A millionaire pays Social Security tax on the 1st $100,000 he has stolen, I mean makes, and then when he reaches retirement age he gets FULL Social Security benefits. I know of NO ONE who has turned down Social Security. Even Alan Simpson, the leader of the cat food commission, draws Social Security at the full rate at $2,346 per month in 2010.

So while your average middle class person pays taxes on all their earned income, when they retire, they frequently have NOT put in enough money to draw FULL benefits at the $2,346 per month level. Most middle class people only draw about $1,150 per month.

So, pay outs would NOT be any higher if you raised the cap because the uber rich are collecting the max in Social Security today, even though they don't pay in an equal portion of their earnings.

And guess what? The uber rich live longer so they get to collect even more.

[dkf]

10. That is the full benefit because the SS tax is capped.

If you remove the cap, full benefits are infinite as they are a percentage of the amount you pay in.

[sendero]

22. They don't have to be..

... it can be structured sanely.

[eridani]

13. Yes, but there are so few of them that it makes little difference to the total payout n/t

[dkf]

14. Then won't it make little difference to the pay in?

Or is it going to turn SS into a true tax for these folks and establish more of a precedence that you don't get out what you paid in?

[eridani]

21. Nope, because they proportionally pay more than they will get, plis their benefits will be taxed n/

[madokie]

2. We're right

and they all know it's the right thing to do but their being the fascist bastards that they are they won't admit it.

[leveymg]

4. Go tell that to the rich people who own everything, the Gov't, and the media included.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

5. The owners (corprats) don't want it

That's why it doesn't get done. The problem is who controls the government. It's not us.

[The2ndWheel]

6. Seems that way

Never is though. Pick any issue, and there always seems to be a simple answer to the problem.

[mod mom]

8. Rec'd but I'd add get the frickin $ out of elections & repeal Telecom Act of '96!

:hi:

[highplainsdem]

11. The NBC/WSJ poll a month ago made it clear that the American people know what should be done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x544604

Unfortunately, our elected officials rarely listen to us. Instead they're listening to their wealthiest campaign donors.

What's happening is called plutocracy, and we need to make that point again and again:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x570787

And we need to point out when groups like ALEC are created to let corporations write legislation that helps them.

[Nye Bevan]

12. When you say "eliminate the FICA cap"

are you proposing to (1) eliminate the cap on both contributions and benefits, or (2) eliminate the cap just on contributions? If (1) then are you prepared to see wealthy people receiving millions of dollars a year from social security? And the problem with (2) that many do not seem to appreciate is that it transforms SS into much more of a welfare type program than a vehicle for retirement savings. Eliminating just the cap on contributions might feel good but in the long run will destroy social security as we know it.

[sendero]

23. Only a moron.

.... thinks we're going to pay increased benefits to people that don't need it. If anything, SS will become means tested. Look it up.

[Javaman]

15. Once we are able to decouple weath from politics, things will change

however, since there are life time politicans, both dems and repukes, who got very wealthy over the years, the mantra of cutting taxes to the wealthy will be the mainstay for a while.

It will only change when we the people get so pissed off that we take matters into our own hands, and get rid of the current lot of bums.

[CrossChris]

16. The Rich want to take from us, and will scuttle every "solution" that helps us

They don't want the problems you listed to be solved. They're not problems for the rich, they're actually working out quite nicely for them.

[cleanhippie]

17. No, we are not wrong, we just are not in charge.

The rich and the corporations are in charge, they make the rules.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grahamhgreen]

19. It is that simple.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. We do not have an opposition party to the Plutocratic Duopoly.

This has been obvious for a long time now. Why do we have to continue to pretend otherwise? Why does being a Democrat imply PUTTING UP WITH ABJECT BULLSHIT?