See, it was McCain who might not be qualified to have been Prez,

[PCIntern]

and the Rethuglicans, as is their wondrous custom, turned it around on Obama and for Crissake, it "stuck". Slimy bastards...

Oh they're so clever and we liberals are just so nice: I mean, who TF would be so bold as to have widely raised the issue of McCain's having possibly been born outside the Canal Zone...THE CANAL ZONE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!...well, not us! It wouldn't even OCCUR to dumbshit Dem's who run campaigns that this would be an issue...but to the Republicans???!! WOW...they just turn it around...like they did with Bush Jr.'s AWOL status making it sound that Kerry was the deserter and traitor to the cause.

So it is with anything - just fill in the blank - think radiation from an exposed core might kill you? Nonsense, a bus hopping the sidewalk is more likely to squash you like a bug than radiation from a plant 5000 miles away. Think 'no WMD's' might have been a problem for an administration which predicated an enormously costly and vicious war on this premise? Ridiculous, Democrats are too busy 'dithering' to do a job and when they go in, it's 'way too late'.

You and I know how to solve this...but why bother...no one's listening to us.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. On the mark.

[Tumbulu]

2. You got it! (nt)

[RC]

3. McCain was not born in a State.

The word is he was born in a Panamanian hospital, not even in the canal zone. And not on a military base either.

Barry Goldwater was born in a territory. There was some doubt whether he could be President. So why was there no doubt about someone born in another country?

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Which hospital?

If he was born in Gorgas, he was born in the Canal Zone. At the time he was born he would not have qualified to run as president. That would come later, presumably to accommodate McCain's run for office.

What should really disturb everyone was how much support there was to change the laws to make it legal for Arnold Schwarzenegger to qualify.

[RC]

18. What is the difference between being born in a US territory that puts

you Presidential qualifications in question or in a rented canal zone? Panama was rented, leased. It was never a US territory.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. It was a military base which required assistance from American civilians

to remain operational. Control of the Panama Canal was a strategic move for U.S. interests during the time. It would be idiotic for the Left to be taking the position that those born in the Canal Zone were not as American as others born on any other U.S. military base. In some ways, they were super patriots because they had nothing interfering with their loyalty.

However, if you can prove that he was born in an hospital outside of the boundaries of the Canal Zone, you might have a point.

[RC]

20. You don't get it.

Being an American citizen and qualified by place of birth for the Presidency are two different things.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. RC. Why are you spouting off right-wing talking points?

There was a law that was passed allowing for these births, otherwise, you're asking way too much from Americans who were overseas serving their country. You suddenly decide that law doesn't apply, then you're as oily as Burke and Feeney were when it came to lawyering legal precedent.

[RC]

23. That was what I learned right here on DU when it came up the first time.

Just going by history.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. You need to show me the links to those discussions.

Sometimes there are fine lines which people miss. I, myself, have pointed out that they should look into GBI's birth because I know someone who is in their eighties who claimed that he was born in France and everyone from the State Department knew it. They just conveniently got themselves a birth certificate way back then to read the Bush Compound. In this case, they could foresee this child growing up to be something as important as a president, because his father was Prescott Bush. The person claimed that PB was a diplomat stationed in France at the time.

So, I'm not opposed to pushing the envelope, unless better information comes along. And questioning the birth of so many Zonians is a huge mistake. There were articles written about them being called Super Patriots. They are proud of their contribution to the U.S.A. And, at least for another generation or two, they can come together and speak for themselves if you challenge them.

[spanone]

4. media allows them to drill these talking points into listeners heads, incessantly

24/7

never has a political party been sponsored by a national cable news network with over 175 local affiliates

that amount of airtime and bandwidth can fuck up a democracy in.....well, faux was launched in 1996....

they are seen in 102 million households

[elocs]

5. Let's face it...Republicans are much better at lies, deception, and misdirection than Democrats.

As Democrats blithely and naively dance through the political landscape singing "happy, happy, joy, joy" and believing that people will always embrace truth and light, the Republicans are busy digging pits for us, defining us and the terms of the debate, while Democrats blunder fecklessly on.

Republicans may have overplayed their hand if they had the control that Democrats had in 2009, but it is a sure bet that they would have seized that power with both hands and rammed through their agenda and not given a damn about compromise and concession or bipartisanship.

Politics just does not seem to be something that Democrats are good at because Republicans certain approach it with a ruthless drive.

[PCIntern]

7. You're right..."ruthless drive" is a grat term...

I once ran an organization which had been driven into the ground over twenty years and I did it ruthlessly to bring it back. People would say "You can't do that!" and you know what? I did it anyway and I brought the group back from 12 member to over 450 by ignoring the protests of the weak of heart and didn't worry about the asshole powers-who-be. Now it's thriving...

Dems could do it too...they just don't: look what happened to alan Grayso...he wound up being pilloried by his own. D'ya thnk that EVER happens to coulter or breitbart by Rethugs?

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. The politics of confusion and disruption.

The only way to beat them is to convince their voters that they're idiots for taking them seriously.

[elocs]

17. Democrats should embrace the Chicago way: they send one of yours to the hospital,

you send one of theirs to the morgue. At least Republicans can understand that and even respect it. As it is, they see Democrats as wimps and have no respect for them at all.

[Skittles]

6. according to my teabagger neighbor, I am not an American citizen

he thinks both parents should be American, and, well, my mum is now and always has been a Brit.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Yup. I see this coming.

[spanone]

15. there was a time when that kind of thinking was frowned upon

and people who thought like that were considered bigots or even racists

now they have their own political party

[Skittles]

22. spanone, you NAIL it

this country is going BACKWARDS :(

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. You figured them out. This is just the result of a disruption tactic

that was hatched from a right-wing think tank. There is no logic to their strategy because they know that the people they want to confuse, the right-wing voter, are total idiots.

[opihimoimoi]

12. Exactly....:o(

[SoCalDem]

13. In McCain's bio, he was born at a hospital that was not built unbtil 3 years after his birth

or so a picture of the hospital claimed.. Coco Solo was a tiny little backwater base when he was born, so it's entirely possible that he "may" have been born off-base...outside of the Canal Zone, but whatever medical facility they had ON base became the "place of birth" as a formality..

Frankly, the whole birth certificate/natural-born thing should have been dealt with ages ago..

The framers probably only put that in there to prevent a "sleeper" British person from taking over the new country & bringing it back home to England.

Anyone born to a parent who is a citizen-parent should be a full-citizen..no matter where in the world they are pushed out:)

And since most presidential candidates are well into their 50's at least, a naturalized citizen who has lived here for most of their life should also be eligible.

[calimary]

14. The United Ostriches of America.

When I think back to ALL THE TIMES when we were correct about something, whether it was corporate piracy or a "vast rightwing conspiracy," or the lies about the war in Iraq, we were SPOT ON about ALL OF IT.

If they'd only listened to our side - even for a short time...

[nc4bo]

16. And the "D" stands for D'oh.

But I don't think intelligence has anything to do with it which leads me right back to getting the corporate fat ass out of our politics.