Responding to those who say, "But teachers only work 9 months out of the year"

[markpkessinger]

On another (newspaper) site, I responded to a letter to the editor by someone who was claiming that teacher salaries should be frozen and that, in his words, "since they only work nine months out of the year," they should be required to teach adult education classes during the summer to "make up for it." Now, I have two siblings who are or have been teachers (one just retired after 40 years of teaching), and I know first hand the kinds of hours they put in. Here was my response:

If you're going to start tallying teachers' working time, then it's only fair to compensate them for the many hours per night they spend making individualized lesson plans for each student, reading student papers, grading student homework and doing their own necessary prep work. If a teacher only spends 2 hours a day during the school year at home preparing, grading, etc. (and many teachers spend considerably more time than that), that itself adds up to another 45 days. (180 days X 2 hrs per day = 360 hours; 360 hours divided by 8 hours per day = 45 days). So we have 180 days of school, another 10 days of in service time, plus 45 days worth of time at home. That's 235 days right there. And if you think 2 hours per day is a lot of prep time, then you obviously don't know any teachers well enough to see the time they have to put in out of what is supposed to be their own time.

The average private sector worker works in the range of 240-245 days per year (52 weeks X 5 days per week = 260 days, less 15 or 20 days for the combination of holidays and vacation time per year), So what we're really looking at here is a difference of one or two weeks at most more than what the average teacher works.

And very few private sector workers are required to hold the equivalent of a Masters' degree just to be eligible to keep their jobs.

Leave our hardworking, dedicated public school teachers alone, already!

[Zoigal]

1. Thank you. I still think that many folks consider teachers as "well paid

baby sitters." Taught forty years. Loved it, but it's no breeze. Would i do
it again? No way.....z

[msongs]

2. tell the morons teachers only get PAID for nine months a year. many teachers do elect to

spread their salaries out over 12 months tho. But they are still only paid for hours they actually work, and not for any additional time they spend at home or off the clock.

[reggie the dog]

24. smart teachers take the 9 months salary over nine months

then collect unemployment for 3 months each summer, you get the same salaray as a teacher plus 3 months unemployment that way. If the district chooses to only pay you for 9 months well... seeing as in such a place where you get 9 months of pay i bet you get 9 months health care insurance too. I would prefer 12 months pay and benefits, but if they dont give them to you in the summer, collect unemployment.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. You can't collect unemployment in many states if you teach

Since you have a job waiting for you in August, you don't meet the definition for unemployed.

[Starry Messenger]

3. And there isn't any down time when you are in the classroom

When I worked in an office, I could set my own pace. This is definitely not the case when teaching. You always have to be "on" and vigilant.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Can't go to the bathroom when you need to

That alone is a MAJOR problem.

[Scuba]

4. Does that include 120 rounds of golf like Rusty Boner? n/t

[Rage for Order]

5. Individualized lesson plans for each student?

I'm sorry, but :rofl:

I'm not discounting the work teachers do, but unless they are teaching at Sidwell Friends School or somewhere similar they are not writing individualized lesson plans for each student in their classroom. It just isn't happening.

[markpkessinger]

6. Both of my sisters have been required to do so in PA for years n/t

[Rage for Order]

8. Uh huh. I'm sure they have.

And they pull each of their 25 students aside each period for 2 minutes and teach them their individualized lesson plan. Is that how it works?

[markpkessinger]

9. No ...

... but they do have to identify, on an individual basis, goals and objectives for each student for each class. You may not want to believe that because it doesn't fit into your worldview of what teachers do, but it's a fact.

[Igel]

11. The words are a bit off.

When I think "lesson plan" I think of what I'm going to teach in a lesson. 25 individual lesson plans per class really would mean a separate lesson plan for each student each day. Since the typical HS teacher has 120-140 students, it means writing 120-140 lesson plans 5 days a week.

There are individual education plans for special needs kids--those with autism, etc. They're rather more inclusive, year-long goals, accommodations, and the like. What you're talking about sounds more like IEPs, but they're made up by a team and run to a score of pages or more.

I have heard of teachers who are to have something akin to classroom IEPs for each student, esp. with at-risk kids. They produce them in the early fall term and update them from time to time. Mostly in elementary school, where you don't have 120-140 kids and where you actually get to know the kids a bit more--and have the interaction necessary to implement the plans.

(This is what every good teacher would do, even if it's not written down. But formalizing and ritualizing it essentially tries to do what much of modern education tries to do: Teach the form of the content without teaching the essence of the content because we're all behavioralists now. Don't explain *why* something works because "understand" isn't an observable, concrete goal; if the kids can do the behavior, say the right things for the analysis, regurgitate back the right facts after being prompted to under the guise of "critical thinking", we assume they understand the reason for the behavior.)

[w8liftinglady]

19. My partner's lesson plans are done on a weekly basis-they are for 5th grade students

5 classes of 25 (give - or- take).many are at risk,behavior management students,at or below grade-level students in mathematics.He unfortunately doesn't have any above grade level students in his grade this year.

Rumor is that his school will be losing 2 teachers per grade.That will increase their class size to 40 in the 4th and 5th grades.It just gets better and better.

[Yupster]

21. I was a very, very good teacher for 10 years

I got last year's lesson plans and changed the dates on them.

Worked fine for me. Once in a while I changed a lesson if I didn't like the way it worked, but mostly, I had them down. Also authored the Teacher's Edition of a textbook for DC Heath.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Oh yes it is happening

Our supt is trying to bring this in to our district. And many districts have already adopted individual lesson plans. Superintendents who have Broad training are advocates of them. Definitely a reality for many teachers.

[steelmania75]

7. The benefits teachers have are what all American workers should have...

[Snoutport]

10. 41 K w/ masters and gigantic student loans every month.

That's what I make as a full time teacher. I have a second job on weekends and summer just to scrape by.

[MichiganVote]

12. And let's see what is it again that the worthless in Congress TAKE?

Let's see.....

Multiple "recesses"

Free travel

Free medical care/ medical clinic and Dr. on staff for Congress 24/7

Pay for medical insurance? Don't be silly

A raise in pay they vote for themselves whenever they want it

Figure it out people. A measly teacher is peanuts compared to these TAKERS

[w8liftinglady]

13. Thank you! My partner ....

works half a day on saturdays helping kids study for the TAKS test. He does his lesson plans on Sunday.
he works after school meeting parents.
He does mandatory continuing ed in the summer,as well as summer school.

Now.... let's talk about how well off these teachers are?

[Egnever]

14. Its a freaking ridiculous argument to begin with

However goood on ya for trying to knock it down.

[TheMadMonk]

15. Response to the response. Police your own a bit better.

I once had the misfortune of cleaning in a school for nine months or so. In my experience about half of the teacher's carpark was still to be filled at the time of the first warning bell, and the same half would be empty before the first bus was loaded at the end of the day. The only staff member who regularly stayed overtime was the librarian. Even admin cleared out within 1/2 hour of the students.

I fully appreciate that those who have a vocation, do devote an enormous amount of personal time to their craft and their students. However, there is also an enormous number who ARE there simply to punch their timecard.

That my friend is a long forgotten responsibility of any Union/Guild/Assosciation. Keeping their own members up to snuff. Not just protecting them from manegerial abuse, and negotiating or outright extorting (and don't tell me it hasn't been done) wage rises.

It's the same problem which plagued the aristocracy of old, destroyed Rome, corrupted the Medieval guilds and makes a mockery of proffesional assosciations today. Way, WAY too much focus on rights and privileges and far FAR too little on the responsibilities which are the price for those rights and privileges.

[Nevernose]

22. I admit it: I'm one of the first to leave most days

See, I go tutor incoming eighth graders three days a week. While they're still behind, they won't be AS behind when they get to my school next year. If you'd not only seen the empty parking lot, but actually followed me home, you'd probably find me working for several more hours. I'm just in a more comfortable setting. You can spot me working at home on Saturday morning and Sunday night, too. And on camping trips, pauses during my daughter's choir concerts, away sports games, relatives' hospital rooms, students' hospital rooms, at least a few hours most days of summer vacation (when I'm not teaching summer school), during slow periods of the many classes I have to keep taking...

Are there crappy teachers? Sure. Every teacher in the building knows who they are. It's just not our responsibility to monitor them. And even though there aren't nearly as many as people think, the only reasons bad teachers aren't fired is because of lazy and/or incompetent administrators. Period. Except for math teachers. There's too much easier work in the private sector for many people with a math degree, and much less stress.

[roody]

25. Where was this?

At my school, half of the teachers are there on the weekends and on the vacations.

[wickerwoman]

32. And nobody grades or writes lesson plans at home?

I did when I was a TA. I was "at school" about ten hours a week (eight hours of lectures, two hours of office hours) but I spent at least thirty hours a week at home grading and doing lesson plans. And I was "part-time". Basically, for every hour in class, most decent teachers spend at least two more hours on admin and preparation and a lot of that is done at home and on weekends.
Most of the full-time lecturers I know work at least sixty hours a week, even after a few years on the job when technically they can recycle lesson plans. The really dedicated ones, who put in serious time for professional development, work more than this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Anecdotal and not proof of anything

Our parking lot is full for at least three hours after school is out. But I would never conclude that means that ALL teachers work late. The ones who leave my building early either have small children at home or go to a second job when school is out.

When my kids were young, I was out the door as soon as I could leave to avoid having to pay daycare. And I took mountains of work home. Now it's a luxury to be able to stay and not haul a heavy bag home every night.

[Jakes Progress]

16. It's easy to respond to those idiots. They're idiots.

[Jakes Progress]

17. For cripes sake? I worked every day on my contract.

When classroom teaching, I had a 183 day contract. I worked 183 days. I got paid for 183 days. The pay was divided by twelve and doled out once a month.

Why is that so hard for people to get? Sure we did a lot of week-end and after school hours. Sure we did summer training and stuff. But the simple part is that we got a contract for a certain number of days at a certain amount per day. Gee people can be dumb.

[Initech]

18. It's stupid logic. Who really makes too much money are the damned CEOs.

[Yupster]

23. and second basemen

who get cut and still get $ 6 million a year.

[Canuckistanian]

20. My wife used to be a teacher

And I remember those days at the end of August. Things were pretty tight after NOT getting a paycheck for two months.

Powdered milk, no meat, pasta every night. And a real celebration when that 1st check comes in Sept.

And our teachers are paid relatively well compared to most places in the States.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Thank you

I'm sick of this meme and it needs to STOP being posted here on DU.

[fascisthunter]

27. screw them and their anti-democratic agenda

[ReggieVeggie]

31. and for those teachers that only work 9 months

does someone think they get paid when they're at home?

[Shallah Kali]

34. How many days a year do Senators and Represnatives work?

and what kind of degrees are the required to have and continuing education must they take at their own expense for $174,000 per year?
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm