Starting my new job managing union workers...

[pinkkillersheep]

Perhaps this is too off topic, but I don't know where to turn. I started my first job out of college on Monday as a manager for a multinational company. I've only really interacted with one union worker so far (ground level tour of the area), and there was definitely an air of resentment. Not that I blame him, mind you. I'm just a kid, and these guys have been there 20+ years. I've also already heard from other managers about how the union guys are lazy.

How do I navigate this world where I have one foot on each side? Where I'm about as progressive as you get, but know that I'll be viewed as "The Man"? Where I have to view people as dollar signs, when all I want to see is their livelihood?

I'm afraid of not being given a chance. With what's happening to the middle class (and especially to union workers), who can blame them for being skeptical of some kid half their age charged with thinking about the bottom line? Most of all, I'm afraid of no longer seeing livelihood.

Has anyone else been in this position? I could really use advice/encouragement/anything. I honestly don't know who else to talk to.

[applegrove]

1. Union members are not lazy in my experience. They are well motivated and work hard. That aside the

best way to' motivate people is to work your ass off. I've always been impressed when a boss of mine puts 110% into their job.

[Canuckistanian]

2. All I can say is

Tread carefully. But don't sell out your principles.

There are too many doing that already.

Good luck.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[Davis_X_Machina]

4. How do I navigate this world where I have one foot on each side?

You don't 'have a foot on each side'.

Can you hire, fire or promote? You're management.

[pinkkillersheep]

18. No, I don't have that power. And I've protested on behalf on union workers on 5 occasions now

So yes, I do have a foot in each side. Here I thought Republicans were the only ones who actively kick people out of their party?

[Davis_X_Machina]

20. If you don't have the power to hire, fire or promote...

...you need to organize.

Because there's a bulls-eye on your back too.

[pinkkillersheep]

28. I'm definitely aware. They announced today that they've decided to cut salaried people's benefits.

[leftstreet]

5. If you're a nonunion manager you don't have "one foot on each side"

:shrug:

Not sure what your dilemma is

[upi402]

6. I was surprised to see how hard union workers work

Just quietly let one or two know that you've never crossed a picket line and never will.

You were looking for a job before you took this one. You will be offered a 'bullet or gold' choice. Remain golden, you will always have you, but not this job.

Be loyal to yourself, the firm will NOT be loyal to you if they make money from betrayal. Don't buy their bullshit but keep that within the confines of your mind.

Poker face.

my .02

[pinkkillersheep]

19. I have no doubt they'd drop me in a heartbeat.

[Ozymanithrax]

7. Treat them with the respect, and they will return it.

Let the other side take care of itself.

[Recursion]

8. Manage

Set goals and allocate resources. What the hell do they teach in college nowadays?

(why does it smell sort of beneath-a-bridge like suddenly?)

[pinkkillersheep]

21. I studied engineering, not business.

[Recursion]

30. Then why are you managing? Go do Laplace transforms (nt)

[bluestate10]

37. managing is about being analytical while at the same time using

human instincts that all of us are born with. If you listen, analyze and pose honest challenges to union members, you will get results. If you view yourself as an inanimate numbers cruncher, you will fail.

[LiberalFighter]

9. Be fair. Be consistent mostly.

Know the contract and don't try to figure out loopholes. Work with the bargaining committee and avoid last minute decisions.

It is not clear if you are the top dog of the company or lower down on the pecking order.

[pinkkillersheep]

22. I'm pretty darn low.

[madrchsod]

10. i almost feel sorry for you.....

just treat people the way you want to be treated and remember you have to earn respect

[RKP5637]

11. I've managed and worked with all types of people in my career. Treat people as

you would like to be treated and work as hard as anyone else. I've never had a problem. Also, always realize that often people you manage know a hell of a lot more than you do.

[CC]

Union members come from the

same pool of humanity as managers. Since the manager tends to set the tone the best way to have good, hard working union employees is to be a good hard working manager. Beyond that since you are so much younger and new to the work force, if you don't know, aren't sure or undecided , ASK even if you are their boss. They've obviously survived at least 1 if not more different managers so they most likely know more than you do. Oh and just like with all people, respect goes a long way. You might be the boss but you owe them respect just like you should want their respect. In most of my jobs bad employees were usually caused/allowed by bad managers, both union and non-union. Sometimes it takes a company a bit longer to figure it out but even they do eventually. Good luck. That said, asking strangers on the internet how to handle a new job does not bode well. Hopefully you are asking people with more experience in what you are doing face to face.

[pinkkillersheep]

23. I'll likely be keeping my thoughts to myself, I don't have a lot of truely progressive friends.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Union members are by far the most efficient and productive workers over others.

If they aren't working it is because management fails to properly supervise or because the work assignment cannot be devised sufficiently to maximize work because the job is not the same each day.

[PearliePoo2]

13. Managers are already telling you that Union people are lazy.

they are just getting started with you.
You are young, you want to keep your job and you won't know what hit you.
In six month's time, you will be completely indoctrinated, bowled over and on the side of management.
(I also tend to agree that your post might be all bogus)

[pinkkillersheep]

25. That's exactly what I'm afraid of.

No, I'm not a troll. But yes, you outlined perfectly my fear. Hence my post here to see if others have been in this position and stayed true to themselves.

[peace13]

14. Please quit the job and let someone who believes in the union worker have it! n/t

[pinkkillersheep]

26. Today I asked my trainer why they don't promote the union guys ahead of me.

He said the cultures are just too different, and they wouldn't want to be viewed as "traitors" for going to the other side. I'd prefer not to believe that everyone must be segregated by class, but it would seem a number of people here think I have no choice.

[Ikonoklast]

15. You are management, and you would fire them all if told to.

The employees know that you would throw them all under a bus if it means saving YOUR job.


There's your 'air of resentment'.


Those 'lazy union guys' know that.


Do you?

[aka-chmeee]

16. URW and USW member for 32 years

and grew up with Dad in URW for over 20. My observation is that the Company (and to some extent the union) made it more and more difficult for Rank and File to move from union to management to union, etc. This policy change prevented many good managers in the bargaining unit from crossing over (and I suppose it WAS a paperwork pain in the ass!)
Those who did cross to management and were good at it had the advantage of knowing the contract. I don't think the company gives their new college grad managers any exposure to the contract contents.
It is no wonder then, that these people see the worst in their workers...they don't know the protocols established by the contract.

[pinkkillersheep]

27. They gave me the contract but don't go over it at all. I plan on reading it pretty thoroughly.

As for the immobility, I was surprised by it. These guys clearly know their jobs better than anyone. I know I'm young and naive, but I just don't see why society has to be structured this way.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

35. That is my issue, as well. Although I did go to h.s. with someone who became such a one at 23.

[Shagbark Hickory]

24. Not all progressives are fans of unions. Similarly not all union workers are hard working.

It can also be said that not all union workers are lazy or that non-union workers are more hard working.

It's a shame how this has become politicized and left you in such a predicament.

[greytdemocrat]

29. Do your job

And be fair. You can run into union people with attitudes, I certainly have. When I worked for UPS I was in "Management" even though I worked in IS. I was at a wedding one weekend and one of the other guests was a UPSer. We talked for a while and all was fine till he found out I was UPS "Mgt." He then clammed up and walked away.

Oh well...:shrug:

[lunatica]

31. You have to prove yourself one way or the other

Standing with one foot on their necks isn't going to get you respected.

You've got a problem of long duration. Union members are committed people. Committed to fairness and professional work. Management is only committed to their salaries and the bottom line. I don''t see how you can reconcile your actions. Either you're a true progressive or you aren't.

So I guess what I mean is I don't buy your spiel. And if I don't then the union members won't either. By the way, they've heard it all before. You're not a new concept.

[pinkkillersheep]

33. Thank you for this input. Perhaps it really is only one way or the other.

I'm not sure if I will be able to reconcile my actions, in which case I've got a lot of thinking to do...

[mulsh]

32. It is very simple: be as straight and honest as you can with the employees..

Being in management you have some advantages and some disadvantages,just like any other employee.

In the union jobs I've held over the past 40 years (S.E.I.U, CWA & Machinists unions) I've seen management personnel change repeatedly and suddenly. I've seen way less turn over with the rank and file workers. despite what business school models show it is very expensive to train new employees to replace experienced ones. Much cheaper in terms of productivity to hire recent college grads and let them sink or swim. Which may be why the employee said you won't be here in 3 years. That may be true too, for any number of reasons. But if you are in a supervisory or management position try not to bullshit the staff. The older ones will recognize it immediately. Also if you get a rep for not bullshitting the rank & file they may cover your back sometime.

[pinkkillersheep]

34. Thank you all for the responses, even the troll accusations.

You've all given me a lot to think about, and I truly appreciate your time. I suppose I'll be in a bit of an identity crisis for awhile. I want to make something of myself, and this job is the perfect opportunity for that. But at what expense...This is why people become Republicans - so they won't feel the guilt.

[bluestate10]

36. You will be their boss, you don't have to be their buddy. But treat

all the members with respect and be truthful without coming off as a sap. And learn to listen and absorb before speaking.

[jmowreader]

38. I'm going to tell you one of the secrets of every successful manager

Do not, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE WHATSOEVER, think the people working for you don't know their jobs. Also do not ever believe the way the people working for you do things is wrong.

Right now, the people you are getting ready to supervise know you are going to walk in the door, decide they're all morons and all the things they've been doing for years are completely ass-backwards, and change a lot of things that don't need to be changed. This is why there's an air of resentment going on.

[demwing]

39. Ive been a manager for a long time, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

And say this much - treat people like people. Take everything you know about working in a group, interacting with others, and being honest and respectful, and make those principles your management style.

Be honest. Tell people exactly what their goals are, and how you can be a resource for them if they need help understanding or meeting those goals. Be clear as to what actions you are required to take if your team members fail to meet minimum performance standards.

If the people you manage have years of experience, draw them into collaborative effort. Ask them to help coach struggling team members. Nothing shows respect like a little humility and a sincere request to help you in your effort to help the team.

Don't be afraid to roll up your sleeves and get involved in the daily operations (That doesn't mean hover :) )

Under promise. Over deliver. Keep your word. Don't lie.

Don't have favorites. Treat everyone fairly.

Spend a lot of time coaching, giving quality feedback, and answering questions. If you don't know the answer to something, admit it, then focus on finding the answer and getting back to the person who asked.

Ultimately, you will have a discipline problem. Your team will be watching, and what happens to the guy who acts up will be of less importance than how YOU handled the situation. Don't be a doormat, but don't be a dictator either. Keep emotion out of the process.

Ultimately, just be yourself. If you have to be an ass to manage, and that bugs you, then good. It should, and you should listen to your inner voice. It might be hard to find other work, but consider doing so before you make yourself, and your team, miserable.

[pinkkillersheep]

40. Thanks for the advice, and I appreciate the benefit of the doubt.

Part of me thinks there aren't anymore jobs that I could feel good about. This is the way America seems to be now. Everything is about the bottom line. Actually enjoying life is only for starving artists.

[Snotcicles]

44. Speaking from a stewards point of view, demwing just gave you some sound advice. nt

[demwing]

46. I should say that the reason I gave you the benefit of the doubt

was because I've spent the last several years managing computer support techs, and one day, about a month ago, I realized that I just couldn't justify what I did anymore. All I wanted to do everyday was to convince the people I managed to organize and join a damn union! But all I COULD do was toe the company line.

Recently, my team received a Division Trophy for Highest Customer Satisfaction for the Year. I was invited to dinner at a fancy restaurant, where I goto listen to other managers talk about how their teams pissed them off. Management got drunk, and congratulated themselves on how swell we all were. I pretty much sat by myself, looking for the first chance to escape. For their efforts, my team of 25 techs got 5 Cheese pizzas and a case of sodas, which they had to eat on their lunch breaks. That's two slices per person. Congratulations! Woop woop!

I just couldn't be that guy anymore. I prided myself on my relationship with my team, but there was only so much I could do for these guys. Sometimes, you have the best intentions, but you are hobbled by the tools and the environment you work in. I couldn't give my team what they REALLY needed (a union) and I couldn't become one of the drunken asses at the awards ceremony.

Next day, I quit my job. No looking back. I will NEVER do that kind of work again. It feels great :)

Now I'm going back to school, getting my graduate degree, and I hope to teach in a nice Community College somewhere that ISN'T in Florida (my current place of residence).

So I think I understand the questions you asked, and why you asked them.

I was just there, asking myself the same damn thing :)

[stevedeshazer]

41. You got a management job right out of college?

You don't need good luck, you already are a miracle worker.

Wow.

[elleng]

42. Ask OmahaSteve.

Good luck.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Union workers are lazy???? Umm, my dad was in the United Steel workers Union

his entire LIFE and not ONCE did the man miss a day of work. Ever. He worked his ass off in a molten hot steel plant for years. Union workers are far from lazy. I would just get that thought out of your head right now. With that said,

Let the workers know who you are. There are ways to let them know you ARE sympathetic to their cause. Be friendly. Don't act like you know more than them, if you don't. Ask THEM questions. Let them give you input. Make them feel important. Make them feel like they still matter. Above all else...fight for them whenever you can. BEFRIEND THEM. Unions MADE this country. Never forget that fact.

What kind of business are we talking about here? You're office management worker-type non-Union managing Union workers?

[pinkkillersheep]

45. It sounds like I'll be 70% on the plant floor, 30%doing office-type work.

I do believe the workers, from what little I've seen, take a lot of pride in their work. But morale among all employees (union and non-union) is low. Like most businesses, work load is being increased, benefits are being decreased, and the people at the very top are getting million dollar bonuses. The dynamic is interesting from a sociological point of view, but terrifying to start my career in.

[Yo_Mama]

48. I know an engineer online

A very, very smart guy in a lot of ways. Has his own business now.

Just about his first "real" job was as a supervisor in an MI auto plant, and this was way back when economic conditions were very similar to the way they are now - bad.

For the most part he managed well, but one night a younger line worker who was having severe personal problems lost it and took a swing at him. The young engineer thought it over and talked to the union rep and said he'd like to let it drop, but he couldn't let that sort of thing continue. So everyone agreed that this would just vanish into the dustbin of private history. He said after that he owned the whole town. He said after that he couldn't even buy himself a drink in a bar.

Union workers are no different than anyone else. Crap on them and they hate you, respect them and treat them like human beings and they'll do the same back.

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. I wish you the best.

That dynamic certainly is interesting, but at least they have someone like YOU who understands it, right? Empathy goes a LONG way here. That's half the battle. Just be good to them and they will return the favor. :) You'll be fine and once they know you, they will work their butts off for you and give you everything they have.

Good Luck and don't be nervous!

Easy for me to say, I KNOW!:hug:

[Yo_Mama]

47. The Golden Rule never fails you

Treat people as you would want to be treated. Be very serious about your job - not as in walking around with a grim facial expressions - but as in learning about what's going on and what can go wrong and what your responsibilities are. Notice when things are done well and comment on that. Try to treat everyone you meet with respect and don't be afraid to ask experienced persons when you don't understand something. Don't be petty, but don't tolerate serious omissions either. Safety is paramount; never tolerate a safety infraction, but always make the point that you are worried about safety.

In any job, in any environment, it is imperative to find out what is working well and to strengthen it - as least as important as to find any semi-problem.

You sure do not seem like a jerk to me, so I think you will do fine. Anybody who has been working for ten years has dealt with jerks, so if you are going to treat people like human beings and do your job well, it's really a help to them. If you can do someone a good turn, always do.