Seventy metal books found in cave in Jordan could change our view of Biblical history

[RedCloud]

Source: dailymail.co.uk

For scholars of faith and history, it is a treasure trove too precious for price.
This ancient collection of 70 tiny books, their lead pages bound with wire, could unlock some of the secrets of the earliest days of Christianity.
Academics are divided as to their authenticity but say that if verified, they could prove as pivotal as the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947.
Lines of inquiry: The metal tablets could change our understanding of the Bible
On pages not much bigger than a credit card, are images, symbols and words that appear to refer to the Messiah and, possibly even, to the Crucifixion and Resurrection.








Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1371290/Could-biggest-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-70-metal-books-cave-Jordan-change-view-Biblical-history.html#ixzz1I6rV2dkb

[aquart]

1. Lead?

[RedCloud]

3. Do you mean the metal "lead"or did I screw something up?

[On the Road]

19. No, It's the Metal (Pb) All Right

probably chosen for preservation.

The Copper Scroll in Qumran, which is a treasure list, was expensive to produce, but using a permanent medium was seems to have been considered necessary because it held the location of the nation's concealed wealth. The priests or government officials would have had access to temple funds and could afford to use more expensive materials.

I suspect that making them out of lead may have been due its greater cheapness and malleability. The first century Christian church in Jerusalem was known as "the poor" and probably had limited resources. Although it was led by Jesus' brother James, who was by some accounts the most revered priest in the Temple, he was an ascetic opposition figure and not part of the rich religious administration which collaborated with the Romans.

And per your later comment, research on artifacts like this is not in the hands of fundamentalists. No matter what happens with Jordan's efforts to repatriate the codices, they will certainly be studied by professional secular scholars. The Dead Sea Scrolls were unfortunately controlled for years by Roland deVaux, a devout Catholic who appears to have had a vested interest in marginalizing the scrolls by attributing them to a small hermetic heterodox community. Documents such as the Copper Scroll pretty much definitively tie them to Jerusalem, and their dating (at least in that case) the time of the first revolt against Rome.

Unlike forgeries such as the James ossuary, the story behind these codices tends to ring true. It will be very exciting to see if the code can be broken and the documents read.

[dipsydoodle]

5. each with between five and 15 lead leaves bound by lead rings

.

[toddwv]

13. Why not?

Soft and malleable it would be easily impressed while not so healthy to work with.

[aquart]

31. But a really odd choice for sacred material.

Unless there's a problem with kryptonite.

[toddwv]

38. Perhaps they were planning on electroplating it...

Who knows.

[librechik]

51. it's soft and workable--perfect for engraving not intended for the printing press

make a mistake? melt it and start over. Clever!

[struggle4progress]

55. Lead was available in the ancient world and probably much cheaper than copper silver or gold

Small non-mainstream religious groups were unlikely to have the economic clout to buy more expensive metals

[KittyWampus]

59. Lead is esoterically related to Saturn. Not odd at all.

[county worker]

2. I doubt if it will change any understandings of the bible.

People like me have no use for the bible and people who believe in it won't change what they have thought all their lives because it would lead to doubt which is the enemy of faith. The rest I don't know how they would react.

[RedCloud]

6. I suspect if something contradicts a current religion, we won't hear about it.

I. for one, am usually quite skeptical of these things as I was with the shroud of Turin nonsense. Eventually the non Jesus freaks got kicked off the team and the research became quite dubious.

[aquart]

7. There isn't enough writing to change an opinion.

I saw the branched candlestick. Jewish symbol but not a menorah. Didn't see the cross but I can't read aramaic which I assume is the language. Really odd find. I've never seen a "book" like that and certainly not from those times. They used scrolls. Or clay.

It's the book itself I want to know about.

[glinda]

10. Especially since the owners of Holly Lobby buy it up like they are doing with old

Bibles and early documentation.
They then select their own scholars to come and look at them in order to interpret them.

[Hestia]

27. Exactly, which was the case with the Dead Sea Scrolls (though these are from the same area)

The DDS were controlled until the Bechtel woman died (sorry, forgot her name, she and her husband started Bechtel) and she left her copies of the scrolls with UCLA. UCLA was the one's who released the scrolls worldwide. The Catholic church no longer had a hold over who saw them.

Some of the things in the scrolls the Catholic's don't like - no hell, God has a wife (funny how that was mentioned in the last episode of Big Love), etc. A copy of the Corpus Hermeticum was supposed to have been with the scrolls too and that ain't something any church wants taught - we are above the angels (because we can rise and angels are static) and we are as gods (we can create with our minds). If you've ever read any RW fundie sites, you'll see them sneer at these teachings. Must be something there if they castigate it all, huh?

Pretty good book - Dead Sea Scrolls Deception (sounds sinister doesn't it?) explains the history of the scrolls.

[Mnemosyne]

32. I will always wonder what was in the Dead Sea scrolls that were used as fuel. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

40. Do you have a recommended

website I can look into this further? Thanks!

[Hestia]

43. No, I am one of those dinasaur's who buys and reads books. The author's write

on alternative history theories and have been slammed by academics, but in the long run I do like their conclusions. Of course, though, they do fit with mine, which is a non-follower/believer of the carpenter myth. This is one of those quandaries - do you believe accepted science or religion or go with something new? Personally, when I slam accepted principals, aren't I just like the TB and their rejection of accepted science?

Somedays it's hard to be a Libra ;o)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Sea_Scrolls_Deception

[LanternWaste]

23. It's quite clever how you differentiated six of one

"People like me have no use for the bible and people who believe in it won't change what they have..."


It's rather quite clever how you differentiated six of one and half a dozen of the other. Almost makes them appear to be different reasons...

[Hestia]

44. But the doubt is already there - my FB "friends" were very unhappy with me when I posted

an article from Alternet stating that if you are in your 20s & 30s, you aren't in church. Gen X & Gen whatever's have turned their backs on accepted doctrine. It's already happened and the church is clawing to remain relevant, hence, these stories that supposedly back up Revelations, as if some guys hallucination on an island is really truth.

[dipsydoodle]

4. Deja Vu

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4792248

[greiner3]

8. On the back of the books were stamped;

Made in China.

[RedCloud]

9. And on the back of each person should be stamped:

Made in Africa!

[24601]

34. Not really - on Battlestar Galactica, it was clear that we all have

descended from the mating of a human father and Cylon mother.

[Ian David]

11. Huh. Whaddya know! It DOES say, "Blessed are the cheesemakers!" n/t

[hobbit709]

12. +1000

[greiner3]

14. As to gods or religious finds;

I am more interested in the excavations of the millions of mummified canids;


Millions of Mummy Puppies Revealed at Egyptian Catacombs


http://www.livescience.com/13473-mummified-puppies-egyptian-dog-catacombs.html

I am sure this will add more knowledge than the above mentioned 'find.'

[Iliyah]

15. The religious heads

will explode

[DavidDvorkin]

24. Millions of sacrificed puppies?!

Awww!

Nooooooooo!

[Old Troop]

26. Why? All finds contribute to our understanding of history.

[Avant Guardian]

45. Once upon a time there were so many mummies in Egypt

...that they were used as fuel for trains in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

[Brother Buzz]

54. That urban myth penned by Mark Twain may be older than these codices

"The fuel use for the locomotive is composed of mummies three thousand years old, purchased by the ton or by the graveyard for that purpose, and . . . sometimes one hears the profane engineer call out pettishly, 'Damn these plebeians, they don't burn worth a cent--pass out a King!'"

Lest anyone fail to realize it's a joke, Twain then adds, "Stated to me for a fact. I only tell it as I got it. I am willing to believe it. I can believe anything."

[Plucketeer]

16. Wow!

Spiral-bound notebooks go back further than I'd ever considered!

[Journeyman]

17. Probably change everything: Seems the correct pronunciation is "Hay-zoos". . .

[Duer 157099]

18. This one makes me think they didn't quite get the concept of spiral-bound

[TK421]

37. Trapper Keeper....the early years n/t

[SomeGuyInEagan]

47. "It traps my paper in ... so they won't fall out."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP6Ievts6B0

[TK421]

63. for some reason, your response didn't show up under My DU...so yeah

that would be it!:-)

[NoodleyAppendage]

20. So they show pictures of everything but the important pages? WTF?

I'm smelling a bullsh*t story here.

J

[Pisces]

21. The guy who found them has found other texts that were fraudulent. It is a hoax.

[MyrnaLoy]

22. Mormons put them there

they are always trying to re-write history.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Sarcasm aside

Those things don't look much older than WWII.

[Old Troop]

28. How do you tell from a picture? Do they resemble something

produced during WW2?

[AtheistCrusader]

29. They look about what some WWII military hardware that was neglected and left behind

look like now. Including solid lead components.

Of course, this is not a valid dating mechanism. I'm just armchairing a single photo.
It just wouldn't surprise me if these turned out, under more careful scrutiny, to be not very old at all.

[Hestia]

30. Dream on sister --

‘Other texts from the period tell of sealed books of wisdom and of a secret tradition passed on by Jesus to his closest disciples. That is the context for this discovery.’

Please - any secret tradition was just that, it was an oral tradition that was never written down, or was sorta and it got out of control. See "Bible, The". That the system - initiates are the only ones who hear from the master, no matter what type of teachings they are.

[undeterred]

33. Was it a man-cave?

[alarimer]

35. No such thing as Biblical "history".

It is all a fiction.

[DavidDvorkin]

36. Good point.

[ieoeja]

42. Biblical history refers to the history of the story.

When were the stories written, by whom, what did they say as they were rewritten through the ages, etc.

For example, JR.R. Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings largely as an excuse to play at inventing new languages. That is an accurate part of the LOTR history even though the LOTR is not a history book.

[Rex]

39. Ah the dailymail...wish we got that in the States.

Next to the Star and Sun.

[felix_numinous]

41. Cool archeological find

It will be interesting to see what the translation says, for historical reasons alone.

[Yavin4]

46. I Have An Excerpt from these books. It's from a speech by Jesus. Read on.

And so, my children, I ask that you consider your love of your fellow man....AAAHHHHHH dinosaur run! RUUUNNN!!!"

[struggle4progress]

48. "... According to the Elkingtons, Mr Saeda received the artefacts from a Jordanian Bedouin who

discovered them in a cave at some stage between 2005 and 2007, in much the same way the Dead Sea Scrolls were found 64 years ago. Mr Saeda denies the claim, saying the codices have been in his family's possession since they were found by his great-grandfather, an assertion challenged by the Jordanian government, which said it would "exert all efforts at every level" to get the artefacts repatriated. In slightly unclear circumstances, Dr Elkington's team was allowed access to a small portion of the artefacts ..."
Jordan fights for return of new 'Dead Sea Scrolls
By Adrian Blomfield, The Daily Telegraph March 29, 2011
http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Jordan+fights+return+Dead+Scrolls/4522597/story.html

A group of 70 or so "books", each with between five and 15 lead leaves bound by lead rings, was apparently discovered in a remote arid valley in northern Jordan somewhere between 2005 and 2007. A flash flood had exposed two niches inside the cave, one of them marked with a menorah or candlestick, the ancient Jewish religious symbol ... The Israeli Bedouin who currently holds the books has denied smuggling them out of Jordan, and claims they have been in his family for 100 years ...
29 March 2011 Last updated at 01:30 ET
Jordan battles to regain 'priceless' Christian relics
By Robert Pigott BBC News religious affairs correspondent
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421

"... But the mysteries between their ancient pages are not the books’ only riddle. Today, their whereabouts are also something of a mystery ..." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1371290/70-metal-books-Jordan-cave-change-view-Biblical-history.html#ixzz1I6rV2dkb


So outsiders have not seen them all, and nobody really knows where they are. Moreover, it's not known whether they were discovered between 2005 and 2007 -- or a hundred years ago. In short, this is (at present) a vague and ill-documented story, subject to dispute

[Drew Richards]

49. Forgetaboutit

You realize that lead is a stable element and carbon-14 dating pretty much is impossible, making authentication pretty subjective...oh yeah the patena flora fauna blah blah blah all that can be faked...I highly doubt these are authentic...Lead pages...yeah right.

[Xolodno]

50. Since I'm a USDA Grade A, Select, Choice, absolute...

...heretic. In that I reject basically all mainstream church doctrines...

The mainstream "Christian" religions will just declare them pseudopigraphical and wash their hands of it (much how they viewed the Dead Sea Scrolls). However, if supports their views, they will never shut up about it.

I have my doubts, the first century church was fairly "Jewish" in its ways and using "pictures" would have been very "un-Jewish". More than likely, it could be third century writings.

What really interests me more, were they part of the remains of a forgotten church? Or were they deliberately hidden like the Nag Hamadi Library to avoid persecution/destruction from the Hellenistic Christian Church?

[librechik]

53. +1

Nobody paid attention to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they should have changed everything.

[Taverner]

52. Wondering if this will describe Christ as human, not god

Theories speculate God was added later on in the Christianity story - wasn't until Paul and even then

[Xolodno]

57. Actually....

...its not Theory.

The first ecumenical council was supposed to settle the dispute as to if Jesus was God (taking on a form of human avatar) or if Jesus was indeed birthed/created by God (known today as the Arian Heresy). Its obvious as to which side "won".

[Taverner]

58. Ah I remember something about that

And I think Arius was poisoned, no?

[Xolodno]

61. According to legend....

...obviously that part can't be "proven". If a document exists somewhere stating so, it would certainly been destroyed or buried in some sealed off Vatican Archive. But none the less, its an interesting legend and that he just so happened to die under unusual circumstances right before he could explain his views to a receptive emperor...

[Drew Richards]

60. First Council of Nicea

Yeah was first proposed and reaffirmed in the second council of Nicea that all mention of him as a man be stricken from records.

[progressoid]

56. Also from the Daily Mail..."Does someone need a Wonder bra?"

Does someone need a Wonder bra? Wonder Woman star Adrienne Palicki struggles to stay in her costume




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1371885/Does-need-Wonder-bra-Wonder-Woman-star-Adrienne-Palicki-struggles-stay-costume.html#ixzz1ICKeJvO4

[originalpckelly]

62. They think they can divine the future with a metal flip book that looks like a kiddie toy?

:shrug:

Are they high?

Is this what they mean when they speak of a higher power?

[Fire Walk With Me]

64. Please let it be real and please let it be filled with truth.

[Motown_Johnny]

65. and how will we verify these truths?

[Fire Walk With Me]

66. Millions will scream against them.