Libyan Revolution Day 43 part 2 (exit strategy? another defection, calls for cease fire)

[joshcryer]

Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1">AJE Live Blog April 1 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418">BBC Live Blog http://live.reuters.com/Event/Middle_East_Protests">Reuters Live Blog http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x785780">Day 43 part 1 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwx_B38678">Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!

A rebel stands inside a bullet-riddled guard house at a roadside checkpoint on the outskirts of Ajdabiya on March 31

Photograph: AFP

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/129351/20110401/muammar-gaddafi-treki-ali-abdessalam.htm">Another jumps Gaddafi’s sinking ship
Another senior official from Muammar Gaddafi’s government jumped ship.

Gaddafi’s former foreign minister Ali Abdessalam Treki stated on Thursday that he will abandon his post in the regime. His most recent assignment was to represent Gaddafi’s regime at the United Nations.

“We should not let our country fall into an unknown fate. It is our nation's right to live in freedom, democracy and a good life,” stated Treki.

Just yesterday, Gaddafi’s then current foreign minister Moussa Koussa defected to the U.K.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/31/gaddaf-envoy-britain-secret-talks-exit-strategy">Revealed: Gaddafi envoy in Britain for secret talks
Colonel Gaddafi's regime has sent one of its most trusted envoys to London for confidential talks with British officials, the Guardian can reveal.

Mohammed Ismail, a senior aide to Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, visited London in recent days, British government sources familiar with the meeting have confirmed. The contacts with Ismail are believed to have been one of a number between Libyan officials and the west in the last fortnight, amid signs that the regime may be looking for an exit strategy.

Disclosure of Ismail's visit comes in the immediate aftermath of the defection to Britain of Moussa Koussa, Libya's foreign minister and its former external intelligence head, who has been Britain's main conduit to the Gaddafi regime since the early 1990s.

A team led by the British ambassador to Libya, Richard Northern, and MI6 officers embarked on a lengthy debriefing of Koussa at a safe house after he flew into Farnborough airport on Wednesday night from Tunisia. Government sources said the questioning would take time because Koussa's state of mind was "delicate" after he left his family in Libya.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/mar/31/moussa-koussa-libya">Is defection of Moussa Koussa similar to flight of Rudolf Hess to Scotland?
Robert Halfon, one of the smartest new Tory MPs, raised an intriguing parallel today. He said that the defection to Britain of Moussa Koussa, the Libyan foreign minister, by a private jet from Tunisia is on a par with the famous flight to Scotland of Rudolf Hess, Adolf Hitler's deputy, almost exactly 70 years ago. This is what Halfon told Radio 4's The World at One:

I think what has happened is comparable to Rudolf Hess coming here during the second world war.

The fact is that this man is most likely a war criminal. He has allegedly been responsible for the deaths of British citizens, allegedly the organiser of the Lockerbie bombing. He is part of the Gaddafi totalitarian regime. In my view, and in that of many others, he needs to go to the International Court to face trials for war crimes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/31/gaddafi-envoy-mohammed-ismail-britain">Libyan fixer's visit to London may show Gaddafi's sons want a way out
Mohammed Ismail, a key figure in Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime, has no portfolio and no job description.

An aide to Gaddafi's powerful son Saif al-Islam, the clues to his power are to be found in his office in Tripoli, a huge suite in a guarded compound. They are to be found too in what he has done: acting as an interlocutor for the regime on everything from blocked licences for arms sales and political contacts.

So the news that he has been in London in recent days for meetings with British officials is more than intriguing. Ismail is Saif's fixer – intelligent, discreet and powerful.

And increasingly, according to those familiar with how Saif and his brother Saadi are thinking, Gaddafi's sons have become aware that they have a problem that they need to find a way out of – despite Saif's bellicose language.

Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWwOeZqz6M

Sky News went with Gaddafi minders to find a "civilian town bombed" only they were never shown any such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5KJavfiQo

TNC presser talking about various details of the revolution (thanks to Waiting for Everyone): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=730234&mesg_id=731532

Topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths that they are treated poorly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x594751

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context:

The Battle of Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0vChMDuNd0

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaPnMnpCAA

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzwQvcx62s

Tea of Freedom Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5tu5bJWKc

Latest indiscriminate shelling in Misurata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop3C4zrPXI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x677397">Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada: http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110317/cf-libya-canada/20110317/?hub=WinnipegHome">Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission Norway: http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFOSN00509220110318">Norway to join military intervention in Libya Belgium: http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/monde/2011-03-18/la-belgique-prete-a-une-operation-militaire-en-libye-828970.php">Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya Qatar and the UAE: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/776/?SID=e80884adc09a37d26904578a9b5978cb">Run-up for Western world’s next military commitment ... with unusual support Denmark: http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51229-denmark-ready-for-action-against-gaddafi.html">Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi France: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp">Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’ Italy: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE72G2HE20110317">Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source United Kingdom: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467">Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote United States: http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nations-draw-up-plans-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-1.2765122">Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya Jordan: http://www.smh.com.au/world/military-strikes-on-libya-within-hours-20110318-1bzii.html?from=smh_sb">Military strikes on Libya 'within hours' Spain: http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/19/2801s627320.htm">Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi

(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2011/03/2011328194855872276.html">Libyan Karzai? Chalabi? Forget it
Fortunately, the Council wasn't made-in-the-USA or manufactured by another foreign power. Rather it came into existence, a month ago, at Libyans' own initiative, soon after the winds of revolutionary change blew Libya's way, and after its people rose to the occasion with pride and courage.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson#ixzz1HvS7iW22">Who Are the Rebels?
During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/29/vision-democratic-libya-interim-national-council">A vision of a democratic Libya
The interim national council, formed by opposition groups in Libya, has said it will hold free and fair elections and draft a national constitution. Here is its eight-point plan in full.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html">Click here for updated map

Military Installations



Oil Map



http://bit.ly/fe3P">Google Earth DL here to see positions of army and patrolling route of mercenaries

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=212059469427545728757.00049c4df2474b6543347&ll=31.203405,30.058594&spn=96.173452,183.867188&z=3">MAP of Protests across the Middle East

Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began

I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child, she had http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/23/a_bright_voice_from_libyas_darkness">this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.

[joshcryer]

1. Current time in Libya, 3:00pm Friday, April 1

Sorry, gtg. :hi:

[joshcryer]

2. Gaddafi's forces battle rebels for Brega

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/2011331142051984358.html">Gaddafi's forces battle rebels for Brega
Anti-government fighters are locked in a fierce battle with government troops for control of Libya's eastern oil town of Brega.

The two sides clashed on the outskirts of the town on Friday a day after pro-democracy forces scrambled to flee amidst fighting with troops loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

Al Jazeera's Sue Turton, reporting from the frontlines of the battle to reclaim Brega from pro-Gaddafi forces, said that overnight NATO air strikes allowed the pro-democracy fighters to gain some momentum, with discipline and co-ordination improving.

"They sent spotters out on the flanks before moving a unit forward," Turton said. "It worked for a while before the more excitable rushed forward."

[pinboy3niner]

3. AJE reported at top of hour: Gaddafi forces pulled back from Brega...

That was the headline, followed by reporting that rebels 'claim' to have retaken Brega, captured 30 Gaddafi troops.

I'm still catching up, hope to be able to pin down what is happening at Brega.

Good morning, everybody! :hi:

[Iterate]

6. Gut Morgen, it's another complicated day.

twitter buzzing suddenly. An earthquake in Egypt?

[pinboy3niner]

13. One in Japan

Egypt had protesters returning to Tahrir Square.

Good morning--Here's hoping for a good day today! :hi:

[tabatha]

8. Some of Gaddafi's troops have defected

and hopefully are bringing some order to the rebels.

Morning, pinboy - hope you had time away from sitting and desk-catnipping.

:hi:

[pinboy3niner]

12. Good morning, Tabatha!

I'm recovering from computer probs I was having yesterday evening. Black screens, having to cut power & reboot multiple times.

REALLY hoping to avoid that today! I got up at 5, still running a little slow myself...need more coffee to try to get back in the groove. In the meantime, I get by with a little help from my friends...:)

:hi:

[tabatha]

14. I saw the word "running" and thought oh good

then read the sentence and remembered that you did not know what running was.

:banghead:

You guys need to be watch your heath, but you are doing an awesome job.

:yourock:

[pinboy3niner]

4. Brega: Rebels bolstered by well-armed, well-trained fighters

The BBC's Nick Springate reports from Libya's eastern town of Brega that for the first time, rag-tag rebel forces have been bolstered by a number of well-armed, seemingly well-trained soldiers in full military attire. It's not clear where they've come from, our correspondent says, but their very presence has boosted morale on the front line. "

1329:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[MedleyMisty]

5. I want to know where they're from

So that I can pour love and admiration and hero worship and faith in humanity on whoever sent them.

[pinboy3niner]

10. AJE was reporting this for the past few days

Rebel commanders were reporting improved discipline as more fighters with military experience (members of defected army units) arrived at the 'front.' Yesterday they reported that the ex-army people were organizing the civilian volunteers, and it sounded like there were improvements in rebel tactics as well.

I'm still looking for confirmation of rebel claims of retaking Brega...seeing lots of reports that are at least several hours old.

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

60. LIBYA HURRA -- !!

[pinboy3niner]

7. Qatar oil deal to help meet basic needs - Libya rebel

Qatar oil deal to help meet basic needs - Libya rebel
Fri Apr 1, 2011 12:09pm GMT


BENGHAZI, Libya, April 1 (Reuters) - Qatar will provide fuel, medicine, food and other humanitarian needs to rebels as part of a deal to market oil from rebel-held eastern Libya, a top rebel finance official said on Friday.

...


He also said rebels had set up a "quasi-ministry of oil" and oil staff were now working under that body or for the east-based Arabian Gulf Oil Company, which has said it has cut ties with its parent, state-owned National Oil Corp. (Reporting by Angus MacSwan; Writing by Edmund Blair in Cairo)

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFWEA238720110401

[tabatha]

9. Some of the loudest criticism on Libya being lobbed from the left

As President Obama struggles to sell a contentious Libya strategy to a skeptical Congress, Capitol Hill's most liberal voices have emerged as some of the fiercest critics.

Liberal Democrats – the heart and soul of Obama's meteoric rise to the White House – are using floor speeches, op-eds, committee hearings and even legislation to condemn the administration's decision to send U.S. forces to help Libyan rebels oust long-time dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

The lawmakers have questioned the timing, cost, wisdom and constitutionality of the White House endeavor, stealing headlines from Democratic supporters of the policy and practically drowning out the condemnations from Obama's more traditional conservative critics. Less then 30 months after Obama ascended to commander in chief with a message disdainful of unilateral military operations, the liberal detractors are all but charging him with hypocrisy.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/153217-some-of-the-loudest-libya-criticism-coming-from-the-left

Oh, the humanity or should I say, lack of.

[MedleyMisty]

11. HINOS

human in name only

Been thinking a lot about a video I saw of a Libyan giving a speech to other Libyans, about how Gaddafi isn't human, about how he's a demon in human form.

He's not the only one.

Comments on the women of the Libyan revolution video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvMtCp8cgtE

Sorry no propaganda here if you want propaganda then go check out Libyan TV. Wake up before its too late if your a Gaddafi lover know he cares nothing for you never has never will if your getting paid by him he won't have any money left all his funds are frozen. Its still not to late to side with truth and justice. Don't stand their while your fellow humans died. My people are dying everyday because of Satan (Gaddafi) I just don't know how much more of this I can take. Proud of Libya

Eeman20011

You make no sense! These women are amazing Muslim women who will bring freedom and justice to Libya and who will make sure the blood spilled by their men, women, and children will not have been spilled for nothing. Don't base things on stereotypes and nonsense base things on reality and fact.

Eeman20011

I can't believe that Gaddafi's propaganda is going to lead us to be totally cool with genocide and just stand by and let it happen. Whoever does Libyan state TV - man, I can imagine that when they die and go to hell Goebbels will shake their hand and salute them.

[defendandprotect]

62. Are you kidding ... they're denying it's "genocide" --- !!!

[defendandprotect]

61. An underinformed left, right now -- also noticed Gates using "nation building" reference....

which it certainly is not!!

If our left sees any similarities between Iraq and Afghanistan here, they're

really confused!!

[pinboy3niner]

15. Grief for an inexperienced rebel fighter at Ajdabiya...

A brutal illustration of how the lack of training on the opposition fighters' side has a human cost. These men grieve for Ibrahim El Felah, an opposition fighter in Ajdabiya who accidently shot himself dead while at the front line. (Reuters)



3:20pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1

[tabatha]

17. There is going to have to be some serious

grief counseling when this is all over.

These guys have been through hell.

[thewiseguy]

18. They need to listen to their commanders and those with military experience

Enough with the hot headed moves.

[tabatha]

26. See #22

[pinboy3niner]

16. Magnitude 6.2 earthquake centred beneath the island of Crete

As if the unrest reverberating around the Mediterranean coastline wasn't enough, the region has just been hit by more shockwaves in the form of a magnitude 6.2 earthquake centred beneath the island of Crete.

1405:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[pinboy3niner]

19. Libya Rebels Seek Cease-Fire as U.S. Vows to Withdraw Jets

Libya Rebels Seek Cease-Fire as U.S. Vows to Withdraw Jets

April 01, 2011, 9:56 AM EDT

By Zainab Fattah and Tamara Walid


April 1 (Bloomberg) -- Libya’s opposition called for a cease-fire after the U.S. said it’s withdrawing aircraft used to attack Muammar Qaddafi’s forces following adverse weather that prevented strikes allowing Libyan loyalists to push back rebels.

Qaddafi’s fighters must retreat from cities and nearby areas for any cease-fire deal, said Mustafa Abdel Jalil, head of the rebel Interim National Council, in a news conference televised today from their stronghold of Benghazi. He said rebel demands for freedoms must also be met.

The rebels’ move comes one day after Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said U.S. jets, won’t be flying with NATO forces over Libya after April 2. Mullen said planes would be made available only if requested by NATO. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates told Congress the U.S. will “significantly ramp down our commitment” to Libya except for electronic warfare, aerial refueling and surveillance.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-01/libya-rebels-seek-cease-fire-as-u-s-vows-to-withdraw-jets.html

[pinboy3niner]

20. Focus should be on pressuring Gaddafi...

Ibrahim Sharki, the deputy director of the Brookings Doha centre, tells Al Jazeera that the opposition's call for a ceasefire is indicative of its concerns regarding "continuing at this level" in a military conflict.

He says that while UN Security Council resolution 1973 is "broad" and "flexible" enough to allow one to "justify anything", the international community should focus less on the debate surrounding whether or not to arm the opposition, but should instead attempt to exert more pressure on the Gaddafi government and Gaddafi's own inner circle, forcing more defections.

3:40pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1

[Turborama]

39. I just posted AJE's article on that in LBN...

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4796695

:hi:

[pinboy3niner]

42. Thanks for the link

I stopped by. :)


:hi:

[pinboy3niner]

21. Syria: At least 3 killed when security forces open fire on protesters in Damascus--Reuters

Reuters reports at least three people have been killed during demonstrations in the Damascus suburb of Douma. It quoted witnesses saying the three were among 2,000 people who had been chanting pro-democracy slogans when security forces opened fire to disperse the crowds.

3.21pm:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/01/libya-uprising-moussa-koussa-defection-live-updates

[tabatha]

22. Libyan opposition sets conditions for cease-fire

Fighters said fresh forces were coming in, mostly ex-military, but also volunteers with not quite a month of training. The rebels also appeared to have more communication equipment such as radios and satellite phones, and were working in more organized units, in which military defectors were each leading six or seven volunteers.

The untrained masses who have rushed in and out of the fight for weeks with no apparent organization were barred from the front line. They stayed to the rear, to hold the line temporarily in case Gadhafi's forces attempt to flank the rebels.

"The problem with the young untrained guys is they'll weaken us at the front, so we're trying to use them as a backup force," said Mohammed Majah, 33, a former sergeant. "They have great enthusiasm, but that's not enough now."

Majah said the only people at the front now are former soldiers, "experienced guys who have been in reserves, and about 20 percent are young revolutionaries who have been in training and are in organized units."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110401/ap_on_bi_ge/af_libya

[pinboy3niner]

23. This backs up what we've been seeing for a couple of days

Unfortunately, many of the MSM reports of of rebels completely disorganized reflect the situation about 3 days ago--they're not keeping up with developments under the council's new military commander.

[pinboy3niner]

24. Rebel fighters turn Fox News crew away from Ajdabiyah (keeping all journos out)

Reporting from the front lines has been difficult throughout this conflict, and today we’re told that a Fox News crew attempted to gain access to Ajdabiya, but were turned away after getting about 200m inside the city’s western gate by the opposition. Fighters say they are not prepared to let any journalists in at the present time.

4:11pm:
http://feb17.info/

[tabatha]

25. Probably a good idea - especially with Fox.

[pinboy3niner]

29. With rebels limiting journos' access, details from the front scarce

Details from the front line of fighting in eastern Libya have so far been hard to come by on Friday, apparently because opposition fighters have reportedly begun limiting access to journalists – a move that perhaps indicates a wider effort to impose order on the undisciplined rebel force. There are reports if checkpoints being set up at the western gate of Ajdabiya, roughly 60 miles north-east of Brega -- the oil town believed to be the current focus of clashes with Gaddafi's troops. Reuters said the checkpoints were also being used to screen volunteers heading to the front line, restricting those without weapons.

3.52pm:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/01/libya-uprising-moussa-koussa-defection-live-updates

[Yosarian71]

49. Good move

Al Jazeera and CNN were effectively Gadhafi's reconnaissance units, providing real-time updates on the exact location of rebel troops. I imagine that the rebels would like to be the ones doing the ambushing rather than just being the ones ambushed.

[pinboy3niner]

27. Gunfire in Tripoli near Gaddafi's compound--Reuters

Gunfire in Tripoli near Gaddafi's compound

By Maria Golovnina
Reuters
updated 25 minutes ago 2011-04-01T14:37:13


TRIPOLI — Sustained gunfire rang out near Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's heavily fortified compound in Tripoli on Friday and residents said they saw snipers on rooftops and pools of blood on the streets.

It was not clear what triggered long bursts of machinegun and automatic gunfire that echoed around the city center for about 20 minutes and stopped before dawn.

Cars were heard speeding along central Tripoli streets, their tires screeching against the asphalt. Distant shouting or chanting was also heard.

"There were pools of blood on the streets. You will not find anything now. It's been hosed down and cleaned by the fire trucks," said one Tripoli resident.

Gunfire is often heard in Tripoli where people like to shoot their weapons into the air in celebration or defiance, but Friday's episode was different and sounded like a gunfight, witnesses said.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42376147/ns/world_news-africa

[tabatha]

28. U.S. Military Not Happy Over Libya

Pentagon civilian leaders and the military brass see nothing but trouble looming as the Obama administration takes one step after another into the Libyan morass. The next step appears to be arming the Libyan rebels, a move that would inevitably entail pressures to send U.S. trainers and even more potent arms—and a move that Defense Secretary Robert Gates flat-out rejected in testimony before Congress on Thursday. “What the opposition needs as much as anything right now is some training, some command and control, and some organization,” Gates said. As for providing weapons, that is “not a unique capability for the United States, and as far as I’m concerned, somebody else can do that.”

Military officials also have slim sympathy in general for those who advocate U.S. combat operations for humanitarian missions, when other nations and other means should be leading such efforts. And with surging demands to cut the Pentagon budget, Pentagon brass aren't thrilled with the more than $500 million tab for the extra operations over Libya. Despite these concerns, Pentagon leaders have been saluting in public, hoping their private warnings will be sufficient to prevent deeper involvement.

White House officials find Pentagon alarms misplaced. One insisted Thursday that "by Saturday we will have handed off fully to partners." By that, officials mean that U.S. jet fighters won't be flying combat operations over Libya. That task will fall entirely to NATO partners such as Britain, Canada, France, Norway, and Denmark with still ill-defined flights by the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-03-31/us-military-not-happy-over-libya/?cid=hp:mainpromo2#

[Yosarian71]

48. Translation

There is a large contingent of senior military officers that do not like Obama and are trying to undermine him in the press with off-the-record criticism. Got it.

[tabatha]

51. Probably.

Because they sure demanded more money and troops in Afghanistan.

[defendandprotect]

63. Gates LOVES war in Afghanistan and Iraq -- not this mission in Libya ....

think he's probably undermining it --

and turning Obama around?

[MedleyMisty]

30. Not a link but a quick theory/thought

How old are most of us on this thread? Don't need actual ages or even answers - it's just a question to think about.

I have a theory that a lot of the anti-intervention people are older people who don't really "get" the internet and who are invested in 20th century social systems and who are (probably subconsciously) terrified by the 21st century asserting itself.

Wael Ghonim is five days younger than me, and he's on the older side for the MENA revolutionaries. And I've seen people on DU saying that they don't think revolution can go viral, that it would actually help Americans to rise up if we didn't have Facebook (that shows total ignorance about the Arab Spring right there), comments about not trusting anything on Twitter, about seeing Twitter as some silly thing, etc.

After all - what produces hate and fear? Ignorance. Not understanding.

I tied this to my comments in the other thread about how it's impossible to believe that the government doesn't really know who the revolutionaries are when so many people on the internet do - unless they don't understand the internet or how to operate in the social reality that the internet has created.

The medium is the message. And I think the internet is the most revolutionary medium the species has come up with yet, and it has reached a critical mass and is now causing major shifts in the human social reality. And those who aren't plugged in are getting left behind and are scared.

Also like I said in the last thread - internet access is a human right.

[tabatha]

32. There have been so many claims about who the rebels

are, that I think it is wise for the govt to actually find out definitely.

Many have claimed Al-Qeada, many have said nonsense.

I think hard facts would help in any discussions about aid.

[pinboy3niner]

33. I don't fit your generational theory

I should be a non-internet savvy stick-in-the mud terrified by change, lol!

A generational approach excludes a lot of other complexities, and it can be divisive.

:hi:

[tabatha]

34. So would I not fit.

[defendandprotect]

71. Not sure about that re age -- think it's an info DIVIDE ... we've see a lot here on these threads...

many DU'ers don't get and don't even believe that it's genocide --

or that Gaddafi held people in underground prisons -- or tortured them!

We need to share more of the info we're looking at on these threads with GD --

Outside of DU, have no idea --

except I've never twittered and have no account, if that's what it takes!

Don't use Face Book, either!

[pinboy3niner]

31. Top Libya defector, firepower head to disputed oil port (Brega)

Source: MSNBC

Top Libya defector, firepower head to disputed oil port


Town of Brega could be next showdown with Gadhafi troops

msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 6 minutes ago 2011-04-01T15:11:58


AJDABIYA, Libya — Libyan rebels moved heavier weapons and a top commander towards the disputed town of Brega on Friday, seeking to break a military stalemate against better-equipped troops loyal to Moammar Gadhafi.

Rebels said neither side could claim control of Brega — one of a string of oil towns along the Mediterranean coast that have been taken and retaken by insurgents and Gadhafi's forces in recent weeks.

...


But on Friday there were signs the rebels were seeking to regain momentum, marshalling their rag-tag ranks into a more disciplined army and moving rockets and other equipment westward towards the front line.


Cheers at arrival of defector


To the cheers of rebels who fired their guns into the air, Abdel Fattah Younes al Abidi, who was appointed head of the rebel forces after defecting as Gadhafi's interior minister, arrived at a checkpoint outside Brega. He later mounted his convoy and headed towards the front line.

"Some military have come and strengthened the rebel lines. God-willing, they will begin with Ajdabiya and go to Brega and Ras Lanouf," said Khaled al-Farjani, a captain in the Libyan air force who is now fighting with the rebels.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42371182/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

[pinboy3niner]

35. Misrata: "Gaddafi's forces are bombing the city centre heavily and randomly"

Hiefa, who has contacts in Misrata tells the BBC:

Now there is a battle between the rebels and Gaddafi's force in Misrata in the heavy transport road. Gaddafi's forces have been able to access the main warehouses of goods supply. They are bombing the fuel and water stores. At the same time, Gaddafi's forces are bombing the city centre heavily and randomly. If Gaddafi succeeds in trying to control these areas, he will destroy Misrata in a couple of hours. The situation there...very serious. People in Misrata wondering why the coalition force has not stopped Gaddafi's force until now?

1524:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[pinboy3niner]

36. Libya's Misrata under intense bombardment: rebels (REUTERS)

Source: Reuters

Libya's Misrata under intense bombardment: rebels


By Souhail Karam Souhail Karam – 8 mins ago



RABAT (Reuters) – Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi mounted an intense artillery bombardment of rebel-held Misrata on Saturday and pro-Gaddafi troops attacked shops and homes in the city center, residents said.

Misrata is the last big rebel stronghold in western Libya but after weeks of shelling and encirclement, government forces appear to be gradually loosening the rebels' hold on the city, despite Western air strikes on pro-Gaddafi targets there.

One resident said an attempt by government forces to take control of the city center had been fought off by rebels but that afterwards pro-Gaddafi forces started indiscriminate shelling of Misrata's port and the city center.

"They used tanks, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and other projectiles to hit the city today. It was a random and very intense bombardment," a rebel spokesman called Sami told Reuters by telephone. "We no longer recognize the place. The destruction cannot be described."

"The pro-Gaddafi soldiers who made it inside the city through Tripoli Street are pillaging the place, the shops, even homes, and destroying everything in the process.

"They are targeting everyone, including civilians' homes. I don't know what to say, may Allah help us," he said.

Al Jazeera television station quoted another rebel spokesman, Abdulbasset Abu Mzereiq, as saying five people had been killed, including a six-year-old child in a car hit by shellfire.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110401/wl_nm/us_libya_misrata_attacks

[pinboy3niner]

37. Unclear what caused civilian casualties; relatives not blaming the NATO-led coalition

Al Jazeera's Sue Turton reports from Ajdabiya that a number of civilians were killed in the village of Argkuk when a coalition airstrike hit a pro-Gaddafi vehicle which, being full of ammunition, exploded.

A commander at the front described the incident as a "mistake", while a doctor at Ajdabiya's Al Gharif hospital, where the wounded were taken, said that seven civilians had been killed in the explosion, and 25 others injured.

He said that the relatives of those hurt or killed were very clear that they were not blaming the NATO-led coalition for the deaths, taking the position that if the pro-Gaddafi vehicles had been allowed to escape, "thousands" could have died in Ajdabiya because of them.

NATO has told Al Jazeera that is unclear as to whether the ammunition-laden vehicle was destroyed by artillery, mortars, an airstrike or some other cause, and that while it had launched an inquiry into the incident, without ground forces to verify the on-the-ground evidence, it would be difficult to determine exactly what happened.

5:35pm
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1

[pinboy3niner]

38. #Gaddafi is fooling himself if he thinks he can hold out #libya #feb17

JohnLazarz tweets:

Moussa Koussa defects, more trained rebel soldiers on the front; #Gaddafi is fooling himself if he thinks he can hold out #libya #feb17

[pinboy3niner]

40. Are rebels' military improvements the result of training by CIA team in Libya?

From the NYT news blogs:




April 1, 2011, 9:32 am

Latest Updates on Libyan War and Mideast Protests
By ROBERT MACKEY

...


11:01 A.M. |C.I.A. Already Training Libyan Rebels, NPR Reports.


My colleagues Mark Mazzetti and Eric Schmitt reported on Wednesday that the Central Intelligence Agency "has inserted clandestine operatives into Libya to gather intelligence for military airstrikes and to contact and vet the beleaguered rebels battling Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi's forces, according to American officials."

Now National Public Radio reports that it has confirmed that a C.I.A. team inside eastern Libya is also training rebel fighters.

"The C.I.A. team is there to train them how to shoot, how to fight, how to have military discipline," NPR's Deborah Amos reported from Cairo. "They are joining a team of former Libyan military officers who are now training about 30,000 young Libyans in the rebel stronghold to also improve discipline, improve communications and make it into a more coherent fighting force."

This could explain a mysterious development along the front near the the eastern Libyan oil town of Brega described to the BBC News live blog by Nick Springate, a correspondent on the scene, just over an hour ago. The BBC blog reported:

for the first time, rag-tag rebel forces have been bolstered by a number of well-armed, seemingly well-trained soldiers in full military attire. It's not clear where they've come from, our correspondent says, but their very presence has boosted morale on the front line.

Our correspondent says the rebels are now starting a major onslaught on Brega, having given a boisterous reception to two key rebel figures - the former interior minister and the former head of the armed forces.


http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/


The full NPR story is here:

CIA Operatives Gathering Intelligence In Libya
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/31/135005728/cia-operatives-gathering-intelligence-in-libya

[defendandprotect]

72. Some DU'ers have the idea CIA being there is a threat -- rather than something

Council was consulted on and approved of?

At least that's the way I thought it happened -- that is, after the UK sent in

people without first consulting the Council and they were pushed out -- and

Council did not agree to see them. As far as I recall, CIA asked and Council

agreed to consult with them.


Not that I trust the CIA a hell of a lot, anyway!

[tabatha]

41. R2P: Libya Intervention Historic Milestone

No matter how the international operation in Libya turns out, we should reflect on the enormity of this decision.

For the first time in history, the international community collectively decided to use legitimate force to stop a leader from committing mass atrocities against his own people. That puts us in a new chapter of human history - one where people struggling for human rights - or more simply, for their right to not be massacred with impunity - have an international system to look to for support. That's a world where leaders will think twice, or not at all, about physically assaulting the people they should be protecting.

International action in Libya marked a major moment in human progress. The question now is: will the international community consolidate that moment and prevent mass atrocities elsewhere?

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2011/03/r2p_libya_inter/



(PS I would like to see verification of the Asia Times article about the deal with Saudia Arabia before I believe it.)

[defendandprotect]

73. Nice precedent ... just in case we in America ever need such help -- !!!

[Iterate]

92. I checked on the AT article

and don't have anything definitive on it, so I'll just keep it in mind.

I also read back through the author's previous articles, and while they can be informative in places and he may be admired by part of the left, he's not exactly consistent. For example, just a few weeks ago he had an elaborate examination of tribal allegiances and likely outcomes and presumed that it would be determinative. Most sociologists, Libyan citizens, and knowledgeable commentators though were saying that it either would not, or that it would be marginal and limited to alliances formed at the top. So far he's been wrong and others have been right on that point.

He also switched sides when the NFZ came into play. I've been thinking all day about Hamid Dabashi's statement from earlier in the week, "in that region, loosing enemies is worse than loosing friends" and it keeps growing in salience.

Regardless, even if it were true, I don't think it changes the fundamentals.

[pinboy3niner]

43. Summary of today's events so far by Al Jazeera's Laurence Lee in Benghazi:

Watch at AJE...

6:08pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1


...OR on YouTube:

Libyan opposition offers ceasefire (2:10)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_q_nUvwIfc&feature=player_embedded

[pinboy3niner]

44. Libyan defections continue--AJ

Libyan defections continue (2:32)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ije2ya4LDaw&feature=player_embedded

[tabatha]

45. Getting Libya's Rebels Wrong

The recent remarks by Adm. James Stavridis, NATO's supreme allied commander for Europe, alleging "flickers in the intelligence of potential al Qaeda, Hezbollah" among Libyan rebels are indicative of a disturbing trend in much of the discussion -- and reporting -- on Libya over the past several weeks. Ambiguous statements linking Libya and al Qaeda have repeatedly been made in the media without clarifying or providing appropriate context to such remarks. In many instances, these claims have been distorted or exaggerated; at times they have simply been false.

The admiral's comments -- and the subsequent headlines they've engendered -- represent a new level of irresponsibility, constructing false connections, through use of highly obscure and equivocal language, between al Qaeda and Libyan pro-democracy forces backed by the Transitional National Council. The latter is itself led by a group of well-known and respected Libyan professionals and technocrats. Even more far-fetched is the admiral's mention of a Hezbollah connection, or "flicker" as he put it.

Statements of this type are troubling because of their tendency to create alarmist ripple effects. Such perceptions, once created, are nearly impossible to reverse and may do serious damage to the pro-democracy cause in Libya. The fact that Stavridis qualified his comments by stating that the opposition's leadership appeared to be "responsible men and women" will almost certainly be overshadowed by the mention of al Qaeda in the same breath. One must wonder, then, what precisely was the purpose of the admiral's vague and perplexing remarks.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/31/getting_libyas_rebels_wrong

[Iterate]

46. Witness: Falling into security abyss in Gaddafi's Libya

Witness: Falling into security abyss in Gaddafi's Libya
By Michael Georgy TUNIS | Fri Apr 1, 2011 10:29am EDT

TUNIS (Reuters) - I have interviewed many victims of Arab autocrats over the years. It was usually done secretly, at an obscure restaurant or by telephone.

I never thought I might witness their suffering in real time. But in Muammar Gaddafi's Libya, anything is possible.

One day last month, I joined the victims. At one point, when I was hauled out of a vehicle at a deserted farmyard, I heard the rifle catches click and thought I was about to be killed.

Reuters photographer Chris Helgren and I were in Libya at the invitation of the government. It previously kept journalists out but changed tack as it fought an uprising. Officials had told us publicly that we could travel wherever we wanted, to see their side of the story. The reality was rather different.

<more>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/01/us-witness-libya-idUSTRE7303RN20110401?feedType=RSS&feedName=everything&virtualBrandChannel=11563

[pinboy3niner]

47. Libya: Nearing a negotiated political settlement?

Al Jazeera’s Laurence Lee in Benghazi reports (following the rebel council's call for a ceasefire):

“I don’t think it’s really the first time that they’ve said that they’re open to negotiation. And clearly Gaddafi himself has already said that there have been two ceasefires, even though that turned out to be absolute lies.

“You have to remember that Mr Abdel Jalil was saying it in the presence of the United Nations special envoy to Libya, and the UN is calling repeatedly for a ceasefire, and so he had to acknowledge that to some degree. I think he was speaking partly to internal opinion in places like this, and the east of Libya, but he was also speaking to the international community, and I think the international community would agree entirely that if there is to be a ceasefire, it has to be accompanied as Jalil said by Gaddafi withdrawing his forces and ending the sieges, and the rocketing of towns like Misurata, which is under heavy attack again today. But the other thing you have to remember that he said, was that if there is no ceasefire then the rebels will press on to try to liberate all the Western town. So he is trying to play both sides at once, and this sense of sort of bravado still maintains here, but all the same, behind the scenes, you do get the sense that they’re getting a little worried … about the protracted stalemate. They’ve been in and around Brega and Ajdabiya now for days and days and days, neither side can push on, decisively. Here, there are worries that they might be running out of ammunition. And they are, I think, now trying to at least countenance the idea of different options. Because as time goes by, the military solution to this looks far less likely, and I think the political solution, if not inevitable, looks far more likely.”

Asked whether defections by pro-Gaddafi officials were an indication of the direction in which the crisis is going, he said:

“Part of the point is that clearly the outside world is it seems going cold on the idea of arming the rebels, there is too much disagreement in Western countries about whether practically or philisophically this is really a good idea. Here, at Friday prayers, every day, and every week now for the last few weeks, they’ve let off volleys … of gunfire in celebration or defiance. Today, as of now, I’ve heard one bullet, fired off, and I think they’re worried about what might happen if this does go on and they start to run out of ammunition. Equally, on the Gaddafi side of things … you can see … there’s rumours about defections, and whether his sons want to get out, and whether Moussa Koussa, his foreign minister, is really in London to try to organise an exit strategy.”

Lee says that there is a process of internal renegotiation ongoing on both sides, as they prepare themselves for what it appears to be a negotiated political settlement.


4:30pm:
http://feb17.info/

[pinboy3niner]

50. The Libyan rebels' 'newly-trained army'

From The Guardian's news blogs:

Libyan rebels sought to win fresh foreign confidence and support today by moving the first soldiers in what it describes as a newly trained army, my colleague Chris McGreal reports from Benghazi.

In an attempt to finally bring order to its chaotic military campaign, the rebel leadership introduced the first of newly trained troops toward Brega, which was seized by the government earlier this week, and hauled up rocket launchers.

They were also seen to have new radio and other communications equipment which the leadership was appealing to foreign governments to provide just a few days ago.

The newly uniformed soldiers included officers who, the rebels said, would establish firm lines of command in an attempt to end the shambolic confrontations in which the revolutionaries have only been able to move forward under the cover of western air strikes and have been unable to hold ground because they lack plans for defence.

The rebels began screening which of the ill-disciplined civilian volunteer fighters would be permitted to go toward the front line in order to stop the scenes of large numbers of them charging forward without order and then retreating en masse under fire.

6.23pm:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/01/libya-uprising-moussa-koussa-defection-live-updates


Note two related reports, from NPR and AP, respectively:

"The C.I.A. team is there to train them how to shoot, how to fight, how to have military discipline," NPR's Deborah Amos reported from Cairo. "They are joining a team of former Libyan military officers who are now training about 30,000 young Libyans in the rebel stronghold to also improve discipline, improve communications and make it into a more coherent fighting force."

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/31/135005728/cia-operatives-gathering-intelligence-in-libya

Fighters said fresh forces were coming in, mostly ex-military, but also volunteers with not quite a month of training. The rebels also appeared to have more communication equipment such as radios and satellite phones, and were working in more organized units, in which military defectors were each leading six or seven volunteers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110401/ap_on_bi_ge/af_libya

[pinboy3niner]

52. "In the last 24 hours the rebels have been making some gains"

--NBC News' Richard Engel, in a live feed report from Benghazi on MSNBC just now

[pinboy3niner]

53. "The opposition sees a future without (Gaddafi), and the government, simply put, does not"

Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught in Tripoli reports that even though the opposition appears to have softened its stance in offering a ceasefire, there still appears to be an irreconcilable difference between the two sides: the future of Muammar Gaddafi. The opposition sees a future without him, and the government, simply put, does not.

McNaught also reported that according to foreign ministry officials, Colonel Gaddafi is "not uninterested" in reconciliation, and was prepared to work on a "dual track".

8:05pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1


Reconciliation? :wtf: Somebody must have slipped something into his Nescafe.

[pinboy3niner]

54. Gaddafi regime seeking talks 'to stop the killing'

Source: Channel 4 News (UK)

Gaddafi regime seeking talks 'to stop the killing'

Friday 01 April 2011

Libya's former Prime Minister Abdul Ati al-Obeidi tells Channel 4 News that Gaddafi's regime is trying to set up talks with western powers to stop the war.

Foreign Affairs correspondent Jonathan Rugman spoke to Obeidi in Tripoli, and was told that Gaddafi's regime was trying to open lines of communication to find a ceasefire:

"We are trying to talk to the British, the French and the Americans to stop the killing of people," said Obeidi.

"We are trying to find a mutual solution."

Mohamed Ismail, one of Libya's highest ranking political aides, and a representative for Colonel Gaddafi's son Saif, is believed to have flown to London in the past few days seeking to broker an end to the conflict.

...


Mr Obeidi denied reports of other high-profile flights from Gaddafi's inner circle, including his own. He was "a hundred per cent in Tripoli" despite claims that he is on a list of senior figures who have fled the country. He also vouched for oil minister, Shokri Ghanem and the head of external security, Omar Abu Said Dudali. "We are all here," he said.


http://www.channel4.com/news/ex-libya-pm-confirms-gaddafi-aides-visit-to-london

[pinboy3niner]

55. Gadhafi's gas stations pose dilemma for Europe

Gadhafi's Gas Stations Pose Dilemma for Europe


AP Enterprise: Europe accepts assurances from Libyan oil company it won't pay Gadhafi


April 1, 2011 (AP)


COLLOMBEY-MURAZ, Switzerland (AP) — Flames and smoke shoot up from the Libyan-owned oil refinery on the eastern tip of Lake Geneva, suggesting one of Moammar Gadhafi's outposts in Europe is still in business. As world powers tighten their military and financial grip around his regime, some governments are hesitating to freeze all of the assets controlled by the North African country's repressive ruler.

An Associated Press investigation has found that several European countries have accepted assurances from Libya's Tamoil petroleum company that none of its profits reach Tripoli. In return, Tamoil has been allowed to continue operating unchecked, despite the fact its parent company is on a United Nations sanctions list.

Officials at Tamoil's European headquarters didn't return requests for comment, but representatives at four of the group's national subsidiaries said they were abiding by the sanctions.

"No money from the gas stations flows, directly or indirectly, to persons or institutions subject to sanctions," Catrin Bedi, of Tamoil's German subsidiary, told AP. All money was reinvested to expand the German operation, she said.


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=13273046

[pinboy3niner]

56. Opposition holds off Gaddafi forces and consolidates its position just East of Brega--AJ

In this video report, Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid looks at new restrictions on journalists as well as inexperienced civilian volunteers trying to reach the fighting at Brega:

On the road with Libya's opposition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nraw5lvq1M&feature=player_embedded




Libyan rebels fire rockets against forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi at an area some 20 kms from Brega Photograph: Aris Messinis/AFP/Getty Images

[Waiting For Everyman]

57. Just FYI so you guys aren't unaware of what's happening in GD.

I don't know what Catherina's problem is, but jeez.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x788917

I've had enough of this propaganda bs, so I posted info I've been holding for several weeks to her latest attack. Thread sank like a rock, which is unusual. But it might resaurrect, and anyway you guys might want to know that information... about Gadaffi's PR machine funding academics and "experts" and writers to sway public opinion.

It's not "polished" or anything. I have better things to do than play these snark games. That said, a democracy is always about "hearts and minds", so it's good to have the info and know what's happening... even if participating actively isn't very worthwhile. You guys (who care) would probably want to know. Maybe when you're not busy, if not now.

I bet that didn't make any sense to you, did it? That's ok.

[ieoeja]

79. I love post #13.

I engaged her only once. I noted, quoted and linked her posts supporting the rebels and claiming the US was backing Khadafi. She said I was too stupid to understand what she wrote - which was extremely straight forward - then put me on ignore as she has you.

Boy, sure put me in my place.

So if you are suggesting she may be working for Khadafi, she is not. She was all for the rebels until we joined their cause. In reality, she is neither pro-Kahdafi, nor pro-rebel. She is just anti-West and will twist any issue to fit that ideology.

[Iterate]

82. That's a pretty good list,

and I see that "Libya lobbyist" even has it's own wiki. That's cool. I remember when the topic came up in late February and first week of March. Did some mousing then, but I think your list is better. Do check out those lobbyist's websites though, especially Monitor and Livingston (yes, that Livingston, dear old RRep. Robert "Infidel ity" Livingston) because you can see that Monitor Group in particular helped set up the sovereign wealth funds that I'm pretty sure were among those later seized.

Here's another site that was useful:
http://news.muckety.com/2009/03/19/lawmaker-turned-lobbyist-bob-livingston-presses-libyas-agenda/13341
Yes, that was 2009. We we're all so young then.

I hope that when this is all settled we can actually the official records of their contacts over the past year. Most of them have switched sides, I believe, always the opportunists, but have tried to keep some pro-Gaddafi memes going with headlines and talking points. It's been a good gig for them, as they were against him, then for him, now against him and for him.

[joshcryer]

105. It's best to ignore distortions and untruths meant to denigrate good people.

That's the approach I'm taking, and as you saw the post sank rather quickly. If you don't kick it it will go away quietly. Untruths should not be given a moments notice, imo.

[pinboy3niner]

58. The Guardian's summary of events so far today:

• Colonel Gaddafi's regime has dispatched one of its most trusted envoys to London for confidential talks with British officials. The visit by Mohammed Ismail, a senior aide to Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam, is one of a number of contacts between Libyan officials and the west, a possible indication the regime may be looking for an exit strategy.

• Scottish prosecutors are seeking to interview Moussa Koussa, the Libyan foreign minister and former spy chief who defected to Britain, about the Lockerbie bombing. The request from Scotland's Crown Office comes as opposition rebels in Libya are demanding Koussa be returned to stand trial for murder and crimes against humanity.

• Seven civilians were killed and 25 hurt in a coalition air strike on a pro-Gaddafi convoy yesterday, it was claimed today.
The claim was made by a doctor who spoke to the BBC from eastern Libya, where he said that the raid hit a truck carrying ammunition, and the resulting explosion destroyed two nearby homes in the village of Zawia el Argobe, 15km (9 miles) from Brega.

• There have been unconfirmed reports that several more Gaddafi officials have defected in the wake of Koussa's flight to Britain. Al-Jazeera cited reports saying Mohammad Abu Al Qassim Al Zawi, a senior government figure, and leading oil official Shokri Ghanem had defected, however Reuters said Ghanem had denied the claim. Meanwhile, Ali Abdussalam Treki, appointed by Gaddafi as UN ambassador, refused to take up the post, condemning the "spilling of blood in Libya".

• Security forces opened fire on demonstrators in Syria two days after President Bashar al-Assad delivered an uncompromising address aimed at restoring rigid order in a country that rarely witnesses dissent.
At least three people were killed and scores more injured as thousands protested across the nation on a day dubbed the "Friday of Martyrs".

• Yemen's president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, has signalled he has no plans to step down as huge rival demonstrations swept through the capital, Sana'a.
Saleh's display of defiance, in which he said he would sacrifice everything for his country, followed weeks of youth-led anti-government protests, as well as a string of defections by generals last week that analysts say had him on the brink of resignation.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/01/libya-uprising-moussa-koussa-defection-live-updates

[pinboy3niner]

59. Libyan Rebels Say Conditions Grim In Misurata (Regime: "No medical needs" there)

Source: NPR

Libyan Rebels Say Conditions Grim In Misurata


by NPR Staff and Wires
April 1, 2011


Libyan rebels said forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi unleashed another fierce bombardment on the western city of Misurata on Friday.

Two rebels managed to escape by boat to the opposition stronghold of Benghazi and warned that conditions in Misurata have become grim.

One of the men, Dr. Suleiman Fortia, told NPR that Gadhafi's troops are using tanks, mortar rounds and other weapons to regularly pound the rebels' last western enclave. He said government snipers were positioned along a main thoroughfare and that loyalist troops controlled access to the city.

"We have every day about 30 to 35 casualties, dead, daily," he said. "And most of them are civilians — women and children, old people, sitting in their houses — and tanks have been shooting them in their houses."

...


"Despite several appeals and ongoing negotiations with the authorities, <Doctors Without Borders> has been denied access to the western part of Libya on the grounds that there are no medical needs," said Laurent Ligozat, director of operations. "However, the situation in Misurata is reported to be critical, while medical facilities in other cities are also said to be overstretched."


http://www.npr.org/2011/04/01/135033263/libyan-rebels-says-conditions-grim-in-misurata

[defendandprotect]

76. Wasn't there humanitarian aid coming by sea the other day to Misurata?

$300,000 worth supposedly? Do I have that wrong -- or have G's troops

turned it away or destroyed it?

Thought this was just two or three days ago re the report?

[pinboy3niner]

83. CNN reported some supplies got in, but "certainly by a very, very long stretch not enough"

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen traveled to Misrata on a boat that brought supplies and delivered this report (click on title in CNN video menu) :

http://edition.cnn.com/video/



Besieged in Misrata, Libya 4:17

[defendandprotect]

107. Rechecked- it was BENGHAZI rec'd humanitarian aid on 3/29 - $300k --

not Misurata --

[defendandprotect]

106. misplaced

[pinboy3niner]

64. Interviews with NYT journalists held captive by Libya for 6 days:

Click on the title in CNN's video menu:
http://us.cnn.com/video/



Journalists recount being taken in Libya 10:37




Bound and beaten in Libya 4:50

[Waiting For Everyman]

65. A little "awww... " moment.

IbnOmar2005
#Libyan youth showing their appreciation for international help through the No Fly Zone in #Benghazi #Libya. #USA http://yfrog.com/h01f7shj
10 minutes ago

[tabatha]

68. Thanks. Wonderful.

[defendandprotect]

78. They're a really beautiful people -- trust the fates will let them make it to freedom!

[pinboy3niner]

66. Nicaraguan drops plans to become Libya's U.N. envoy--REUTERS

Nicaraguan drops plans to become Libya's U.N. envoy


By Louis Charbonneau Louis Charbonneau – 5 mins ago


UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) – A former Nicaraguan foreign minister who was to become Libya's envoy to the United Nations has dropped those plans and instead will represent Nicaragua at the world body, U.N. officials said on Friday.

Nicaragua's U.N. mission has submitted a letter stating that Miguel D'Escoto Brockmann, a fierce critic of the U.S. government who once served in a leftist Sandinista government, will become the Latin American country's deputy ambassador, U.N. officials told Reuters.

On Tuesday, Nicaragua had said D'Escoto would be Libya's U.N. envoy after most diplomats at the Libyan U.N. mission, including the ambassador and his deputy, defected from the government of Muammar Gaddafi in February and sided with rebels who launched an uprising.

Tripoli then appointed senior diplomat Ali Treki, a close associate of Gaddafi and former U.N. General Assembly president, as its U.N. envoy but he defected to the opposition as well after leaving Libya.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110401/wl_nm/us_libya_nicaragua_un

[tabatha]

67. A summary

Looks like some help was given to Misratah - thankfully. The city of misery.

22:14 Reuters The Libyan regime has rejected the conditions of a ceasefire offered by the revolutionaries. The regime said its troops will not leave Libyan cities.

DIRECT from Misratah the city is now very quiet after coalition air strikes destroyed a Gaddafi military convoy attempting to enter the city and the port.

21:49 Al Jazeera Arabic Suleiman Dogha, Libyan Journalist and analyst stated live on air that snipers climbed on top of mosques in Tripoli today to deter and prevent citizens from demonstrating.

Almanara Media21:35 Almanara Media Coalition forces bombed a radar base in Qasr Alhaj area on the outskirts of the town of Rajbaan. The news source also confirmed that no air strikes were performed on Gaddafi’s forces which are stationed on the outskirts of Zintan and Gelaa.

Almanara Media20:24 Almanara Media Revolutionaries have regained control of the city of Brega

Almanara Media19:35 Almanara Media Trusted sources have confirmed that Gaddafi’s forces in the town of Zala (between Sirt & Ras Lanouf) have made a request for more mercenaries and reinforcements from Tripoli due to their decreasing numbers.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/

[Dansk]

69. Thank You!

I have been meaning to thank all of you for the incredible work and dedication that you put into keeping this thread alive, for a long time. I am passionate about returning to this thread every day, whenever I can spare a minute or two. When I turn on my computer in the morning, it is the first place I go to and it is the last I return to before I retire at night.

I love the respectful tone, the factual information - the lack of the argumentativeness, the rants and paranoia that I at times find too present (for my taste) in the general discussion on DU (it is one of the reasons why I don't participate there).

I give Josh and Pinboy the credit for the setting the tone of the discussion and for keeping it on an adult and respectful level even with the occasional argumentative posting slipping through.

I also want to thank Medleymisty for her thoughtful postings. I find myself resonating so much that I have said to myself several times, "Heck, I could have written this posting."

I too have seen friends on the left with no inclination to truly learn about the recent events in Libya, denounce the intervention and defend Gadaffi solely due to the fact that he has "stood up to" the imperialist West and particularly the US in the past. My head is spinning with confusion. In my book, his "anti-colonialist" stance does not justify his vicious and murderous and power-hungry ways, but I have found that it does with people that I would have never expected such attitudes from.

Thank you for creating such a comfortable and homey place for all of us who are so passionate about the freedom of Libya and the Middle East. We are all in this together!

[tabatha]

70. +10000

[pinboy3niner]

74. Libyan government rejects rebel ceasefire

Source: AlJazeera

Libyan government rejects rebel ceasefire


Opposition offers ceasefire if Gaddafi halts attacks against rebel-held cities, but government terms conditions 'mad'.


Last Modified: 01 Apr 2011 20:46


A Libyan government spokesman has termed the conditions set by the opposition for a ceasefire "mad", and asserted that troops loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, will remain stationed where they are.

"They are asking us to withdraw from our own cities. .... If this is not mad then I don't know what this is. We will not leave our cities," said Mussa Ibrahim, the government spokesman, on Friday.

Fighting raged on Friday near the key oil town of Brega, in the country's east, and the towns of Misurata and Az Zintan in the west.

Earlier, the opposition had said it would agree to a ceasefire as long as Gaddafi pulled his military out of opposition-held cities and allowed peaceful protests against his government.


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201141134110527219.html

[pinboy3niner]

75. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 11 PM FRIDAY, APRIL 1

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours

[defendandprotect]

80. LIBYA HURRA -- !!

[pinboy3niner]

77. The evolution of Qaddafi

Posted in GD by Bucky:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x791385

[tabatha]

81. UK in talks with 10 key Qadhafi associates

LONDON: The British government said it was in urgent talks with up to another 10 senior figures in Colonel Muammar Qadhafi’s creaking regime about possible defection following the dramatic arrival in Britain of the Libyan dictator’s chief henchman for much of his 40 years in power.

As former foreign minister Moussa Koussa was reported to be “talking voluntarily” to British officials on Thursday, the Libyan regime was desperately struggling to limit the damage of the stunning desertion, suggesting he was exhausted and suffering from mental problems.

But its capacity to stop the domino effect appeared to be limited. The Independent understands that British officials are already in contact with up to 10 leading Libyan officials about following Koussa’s lead and deserting Qadhafi. As Libyan diplomats at the United Nations said they expected further defections and reports emerged that a senior figure in the country’s London embassy had changed sides, Prime Minister David Cameron said others should now “come to their senses.”

Speaking at a Downing Street press conference, Cameron said: “The decision by the former Libyan minister to come to London to resign his position is a decision by someone at the very top. It tells a compelling story of the desperation and the fear right at the very top of the crumbling and rotten Qadhafi regime.”



http://gulftoday.ae/portal/f5f890e2-05cb-4e4a-b0a2-b9607c876b0f.aspx

[tabatha]

84. Tweets

Smiffysmate‎ RT @BRQNews: AJA in #Ajdabiya reports #Brega is back with Free Libya. the new tactical strategy & organization is working #LIBYA

sylv666‎ RT @ShababLibya: Soldiers who have defected are being sent to the front lines and organized into units to lead opposition. #libya #feb17 #gadafficrimes

erusalemilya‎ RT @ChangeInLibya: Reports that Gaddafi's forces have been pushed back to Uqaylah some 50km west of Brega #libya #feb17

al_habieli‎ RT @blakehounshell idea that the U.S.got involved in #Libya cause of oil is simplistic, ignorant,& wrong.Qaddafi was happy 2sell West oil.

[tabatha]

85. Libya policy constrained by Iraq legacy

President Obama continues to take heat from members of Congress over Libya. Let's start with the line of attack taken by 2012 GOP presidential hopeful, Mississippi governor Haley Barbour. He claims that by allowing NATO to take the lead in Operation Odyssey Dawn, the president is weakening the United States' status as leader of nations. This argument appeals to the "American Exceptionalist" in us all.

My view is that had the Iraq "war" never happened, the U.S. wouldn't find it necessary to dance through every diplomatic hoop at the UN and the Arab League as we're currently doing. The indelible images of Abu Ghraib, the daily suicide bombings, and the destruction of Iraqi infrastructure have left their mark. If the US acts unilaterally in the Middle East after our foray into Iraq, we're sure to suffer another worldwide verbal beat down.

"Who cares what other countries say?", you might argue. "America was born to lead". Sure, we could have acted unilaterally in Libya. We clearly don't lack the military capacity. But in the wake of Iraq, such a move almost certainly would have had negative repercussions. I can't believe Glenn Beck hasn't spun it that Turkey is going to split off from NATO and reform the Ottoman Empire with Germany. Then they'll join with the Persians in Iran and Chavez in Venezuela to form the ultimate caliphate. Maybe I can get a job writing for Fox huh?



http://jdunn.newsvine.com/_news/2011/04/01/6388160-libya-policy-constrained-by-iraq-legacy

[pinboy3niner]

87. With Glenn Beck as the Imperial Grand Caliph?

Does this mean I have to stop calling him Sun Myung Beckkk? :)

[tabatha]

91. I'd just call him

Bleeeeeeeeeeeech.

[pinboy3niner]

86. More disciplined Libyan opposition force emerging

Source: AP

Apr 1, 5:13 PM EDT


More disciplined Libyan opposition force emerging


By BEN HUBBARD and RYAN LUCAS
Associated Press


AJDABIYA, Libya (AP) -- Something new has appeared at the Libyan front: a semblance of order among rebel forces. Rebels without training - sometimes even without weapons - have rushed in and out of fighting in a free-for-all for weeks, repeatedly getting trounced by Moammar Gadhafi's more heavily armed forces.

...


The better organized fighters, unlike some of their predecessors, can tell the difference between incoming and outgoing fire. They know how to avoid sticking to the roads, a weakness in the untrained forces that Gadhafi's troops have exploited. And they know how to take orders.

...


The better organized rebel force took a long time to deploy mainly because it was being drawn up from scratch.

"We were setting up and training and establishing units all over Libya," said Hamid Muftah, 41, a former member of air force now with the rebels. The volunteers got about 25 days of training and have been organized into six- or seven-member groups each led by a defector from the regular military.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AF_LIBYA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[pinboy3niner]

88. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 12:10 AM SATURDAY, APRIL 2

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours

[pinboy3niner]

89. Use of land mines by the Libyan government has been confirmed--Human Rights Watch

US-based rights watchdog Human Rights Watch says that the use of landmines by the Libyan government has been "confirmed".

According to the group, troops loyal to Muammar Gaddafi have used both antipersonnel and antivehicle mines during the current conflict with the opposition.

Pictures have been taken of mines laid by pro-Gaddafi forces (about two dozen antivehicle and three dozen antipersonnel mines) on the outskirts of Ajdabiya.

HRW's release is available here:

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/30/libya-government-use-landmines-confirmed


11:37pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-1

[pinboy3niner]

90. Fierce battle in Ivory Coast city

1 April 2011 Last updated at 17:49 ET

Ivory Coast: Gbagbo and Ouattara in Abidjan battle


There has been fierce fighting in Ivory Coast's main city of Abidjan between the forces of UN-recognised president Alassane Ouattara and those loyal to his rival, incumbent Laurent Gbagbo.

Mr Ouattara's forces have made sweeping gains in the past week but have failed so far to defeat Mr Gbagbo in Abidjan.

Residents say they fear for their safety amid clashes at the presidential palace, TV station and other districts.

France, the UN and US have repeated demands for Mr Gbagbo to stand aside.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12943217

[tabatha]

93. Libya: wife of defecting foreign minister captured in firefight

The wife of the Libyan foreign minister who defected to Britain earlier this week has been seized by Colonel Gaddafi and is being interrogated by his "internal security" officials, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

She is thought to have been captured amid eyewitness reports of a fierce gunfight at Col Gaddafi's central Tripoli compound as the regime stepped in to stop further defections.

Yesterday, local residents recalled how the most fierce firefight yet seen in central Tripoli had erupted within hours of the regime confirming that the Foreign Minister had defected.

"The blocks in that area are the homes to high ranking official of the state who must live close to Col Gaddafi. People say that some of them were trying to flee with their families when they came under attack from the guards," said a local resident.

"They gave as they got but there was a panic that the regime had to cover up."

"In the morning they were still cleaning up the blood," they said. "It was a big operation."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8422410/Libya-wife-of-defecting-foreign-minister-captured-in-firefight.html

It looks as though nothing is going to get Gaddafi to step down other than a successful inside revolt. I wonder was Moussa Koussa knows.

[pinboy3niner]

94. Protesters demand Mubarak face trial in Egypt

Source: Al Jazeera


Protesters demand Mubarak face trial in Egypt


Protests dubbed "Friday for rescue of revolution" amid calls for ousted president and former officials to face justice.


Last Modified: 01 Apr 2011 17:02


Thousands of people have gathered on Friday in Tahrir Square in the Egyptian capital, Cairo, calling for ousted president Hosni Mubarak and members of his former administration to face justice.

The demonstration, dubbed "Friday for the rescue of the revolution," was organised by the Youth Revolution Coalition, a group founded by the young activists who started the January 25 protests that led to the end of Mubarak's rule.

The protest called for remaining members of Mubarak's regime to be put on trial, namely Fathi Serour, the former parliament speaker, Zakariya Azmi, head of the presidential palace, and Safwat al-Sherif, the former secretary general of the ruling party.

...


Al Jazeera correspondent Mike Hanna reporting from the square said the protest was strong message to the supreme armed forces from those protesting in the square.


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/201141144334505497.html

[pinboy3niner]

95. Full quote from Musa Ibrahim, govt spokesman, in rejecting opposition ceasefire proposal:

The rebels never offered any peace.....we are the ones who offered peace weeks ago, and we said we are going to talk, and let's sit down and everything. The rebels are not offering peace. If you are making impossible demands, it's a trick, it's a trick. So, okay, I could come to the rebels and say: 'rebels, I offer you peace, get out of Benghazi on a ship, this is my condition.' You can't do that. These are our cities, these are the cities of the Libyan government. You hate this government? You can hate it. Many people hate their governments. That's not the question. If you want peace, you keep things as they are, you sit down and you negotiate. But to make impossible demands is a trick. So what they are doing is not a genuine wish for peace."

[tabatha]

96. The ownership Gaddafi govt of Libya

they own everything - the land and the money; the people are just annoying gnats that have no rights.

[tabatha]

97. Woah - something happening in Tripoli.

RT @ChangeInLibya: BREAKING: Reports that Colonel Abdelrahman AlSaid defected and IS NOW BESIEGING BAB AL-AZIZIYA Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli #libya #feb17

http://twitter.com/LibyaFeb17_com

Edit -

#
‎
Thanku4theAnger‎ Inshallah Tripoli will be free by the end of the night.Report that AbdalRahman AlSayd brigade is surrounding Gaddafi's Compound #LIBYA#Feb17
Twitter -
11
11 seconds ago
#
‎
ZubairBR‎ RT @ChangeInLibya: Reports that hundreds (or thousands) of prisoners escaped from Tripoli's largest prison and stole some weapons too #libya #feb17
Twitter -
12
12 seconds ago


01:13 Libya Alyoum Independent online newspaper cites reports which state that a number of Abu Sleem prisoners managed to escape after stealing guards’ weapons and are now engaged in gun battles with Gaddafi’s forces outside Baab Al Aziziyah

[Iterate]

99. I'm seeing these too, it's lighting up, but unconfirmed.

plus++
LPC #Zintan: ENGLISH towns Gaddafi forces had not attacked before, are being attacked now #Libya #feb17
http://audioboo.fm/boos/318835-lpc-zintan-english-towns-gaddafi-forces-had-not-attacked-before-are-being-attacked-now-libya-feb17

@ChangeInLibya: BREAKING: Gunshots in FASHLOOM, DAHRA, TAJOURA and MOST IMPORTANTLY Bab Al-Aziziya Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli #libya #feb17

@ShababLibya: According to #Libya Alyowm excaped prisoners from #BabAlAziziya shooting in the compound after seizing guards' weapons http://bit.ly/eFruMh (expand)

ETA:

@jenanmoussa: #BREAKINGNEWS:Four rebels in #Libya capital #Tripoli blew themselves up tonight and killed more than 15 #Gaddafi soldiers,acc to eyewitness.

@LibyaInMe: Reports of heavy gunfire in Tripoli in an area called وادي الربيع (Spring Well) betweet revolutionaries and Gaddafi's men #libya #feb17

@ChangeInLibya: Reports that hundreds (or thousands) of prisoners escaped from Tripoli's largest prison and stole some weapons too #libya #feb17

Have lost track of who is reliable when it all went silent for the past few weeks. ok, get wound up, then wait for confirmation.

ETAA
@libi4ever: unconfiremed: Col Abd Alrahman Alsaid the head of Supply& logistic in Qadfi's army has defected& besieging Bab Al Aziza #libya

ETAAA

@ChangeInLibya: I can't confirm that anything is happening in Tripoli tonight but the reports come from credible sources. Still waiting. #libya #feb17

+several sources not able to reach contacts

[pinboy3niner]

98. Gaddafi's line in the sands

Source: The Guardian

Gaddafi's line in the sands


The defection of Moussa Koussa is a blow, but the colonel's family ties still help ensure loyal support


Ian Black
guardian.co.uk, Friday 1 April 2011 21.30 BST


Libyans who talk frankly to foreigners often privately describe their country as an enigma or a "black box". Understanding Muammar Gaddafi's regime is difficult at the best of times. Now that he is fighting for his survival in a new struggle with what he calls "colonialist crusader" enemies, it is harder than ever.

The defection of Moussa Koussa, Gaddafi's foreign minister and ex-intelligence chief, is certainly a blow – as well as a salutary reminder that Britain, the US and other western governments have been doing business with unsavoury characters for years. Other Libyan technocrats, diplomats and military people are likely to follow as they consider their options and the need to prevent the country collapsing into another Somalia.

Koussa was a consigliere who mattered. But hard power in Libya is in the hands of the Gaddafi family – its Mafia-like dysfunctionality brilliantly captured in leaked US cables. So it may be more significant that peace feelers are being put out by his sons Saif al-Islam and Sa'adi – though it is hard to see why the Benghazi-based rebels should accept a "transitional" regime headed by their brother Mu'tasim, until the uprising a rising star as his father's national security adviser.

...


Evidence of dissent can be heard in whispered conversations. "They are liars," one man hissed when yet another crowd spontaneously expressed its adulation for "Muammar the colonel". Brave souls talk of arrests and disappearances. The meaning of repression is grimly clear from the deserted streets of Zawiya and recurrent rumours of bodies of victims of the regime recycled as casualties of allied air raids.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/01/gaddafi-line-sands-libya-moussa-koussa

[pinboy3niner]

100. AP FACT CHECK: Senate DID favor Libya no-fly zone

AP foreign, Friday April 1 2011


FACT CHECK: Senate did favor Libya no-fly zone


AP foreign, Friday April 1 2011 DONNA CASSATA


WASHINGTON (AP) — Some lawmakers are grousing loudly that President Barack Obama sent the nation's military to Libya without Congress' blessing.

They're ignoring a key fact: The Senate a month ago voted to support imposing a no-fly zone to protect civilians from attacks by Col. Moammar Gadhafi's forces.

With no objections, the Senate on March 1 backed a resolution strongly condemning "the gross and systematic violations of human rights in Libya" and urging the U.N. Security Council to take action, "including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory."

There was no recorded vote. It was simply approved by unanimous consent.

...


"There have been a lot of concerns expressed about the consultation with the Congress, but in its own way, the Congress consulted with the president, and particularly this body that unanimously in a resolution called for the imposition of a no-fly zone," Gates told the Senate Armed Services Committee.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9576186

[tabatha]

101. Lawrence O'Donnell talking about it wrt Rand Paul

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42350498#42350498

[pinboy3niner]

104. Wow! "Now we know what Rand Paul looks like when he's lying"

O'Donnell sure called him on his blatant BS. Thanks for the link! :fistbump:

[pinboy3niner]

102. Libyan revolution is worth the fight, say battle-torn families

Source: The Guardian

Libyan revolution is worth the fight, say battle-torn families


Citizens in rebel-held areas believe the uprising has created a sense of solidarity they previously thought impossible


Chris McGreal in Benghazi guardian.co.uk, Friday 1 April 2011 20.14 BST

...


"People find it very hard," said Iman Fannoush, with her two children in tow and a husband she knows not where. "They are up all night shooting because of good news. We hear the UN is coming to help us or our fighters have taken Brega or the air strikes have destroyed Gaddafi's tanks. Then everyone is afraid again when they hear Gaddafi's army is coming and they all want to know where is France, where are the air strikes, why is the west abandoning us?"

Against that, Libyans have surprised themselves with a solidarity and consideration for others many said they didn't know they had because the regime poisoned relationships with suspicion.

The families who fled Ras Lanuf, Brega and Ajdabiya as Gaddafi's forces advanced found a welcome in the houses of strangers in Benghazi. When that city then came under attack, and those families fled again along with their new hosts, they were taken in at homes along the coast all the way to Tobruk.

Fannoush, 25, was among them. She last saw her husband, Mohammed, three weeks ago as he left their home in Ajdabiya, about 90 miles south of Benghazi, to fight Gaddafi's advancing army. Days later, as the Libyan leader's forces bore down on Ajdabiya, Fannoush could no longer wait for Mohammed to return and fled with much of the town's population, leaving a note for her husband. "It said I have gone to Benghazi but I do not know if I can stop there. It said we might not stop until Egypt," she said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/01/libyan-revolution-battle-torn-families

[joshcryer]

103. Day 44 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x792681