Role Models....

[one_voice]

The Michael Vick threads have brought up the question of who is or should be role models.

I'm of the opinion that entertainers, sports figures etc aren't and we can't expect them to be. It's not their job to be our kids role model. I think we need to teach our children that being able to sing or throw a baseball doesn't make you a person that should be admired. I think in a perfect world these people would know that children watch them and act accordingly. However we know that's not what happens.

I do think teachers, aunts, uncles, parents, and people that have a positive impact on lives should be considered role models. For example, Jimmy Carter all he does for habitat for humanity, that's a role model. A good teacher is a role model. More often than not, it's the people in everyday life that kids can learn from.

Thoughts?

[Safetykitten]

1. Adults. If you are an adult you are a role model. Like it or not.

[one_voice]

2. Why?....

It's not my responsibility to be a role model to anyone. If I want to drink and sleep around that's my right and I shouldn't have to worry about anyone's children.

*I don't live like this, and have children as well as nieces and nephews so I live my life accordingly. But that's my CHOICE, like it or not. And I shouldn't be help accountable to someone else's children.

I strongly disagree with you. Who are you to tell me I'm a role model like it or not. Wouldn't that be like me telling a pregnant woman she's going to be a mother, like it or not? Taking away her choice.

[Safetykitten]

4. Then by some people's standards you are a bad role model.

Just the facts.

Now for fun kids! Name a society on the planet run by children.

On edit...Actual children, not perceived children such as 21st Century America for example.

[one_voice]

6. Why am I a bad role model....

it's not my responsibility to be a role model to anyone's children. And you completely ignored the comparison. You're telling me I am a role model like it or not. How's that any different than me telling a pregnant woman that's she's going to be a mother..like it or not. Answer the question please. Or by some people's standards you're dodging the issue. Both are choices...why is one choice ok and the other not.

[Safetykitten]

8. I did not say you are a bad role model, others by their standards may.

[one_voice]

13. You still didn't answer the question...

coward comes to mind.

[Safetykitten]

17. What is so hard to understand?

You are an adult. It comes with the height. You are a role model if you like it or not. What, you want to buck human history? Children look up to adults. LITERALLY! Are you going to deny the human experience of children looking to adults for everything?

A little kid is lost at the carnival. Adults see this and protect him. They are good role models. What you do in your own private life beyond the view of children is not the point. That is unless you have sex in the backyard with the gas meter reader and the kids next door see. That would make you a BAD role model.

The trojan horse of the role model, "I ain't one" is used by people who do exactly that; have the sex with the gas meter reader, in front of kids, yet demand respect and when a line is crossed, well, then the throw away line.

[one_voice]

20. Blah, blah, blah, blah....

You still didn't answer the question. Having sex in front of kids is a crime and has nothing to do with being a role model. Nice try. Seeing a child lost and helping is common sense. My son did that when he was small, does that make him a role model. Nice try.

The trojan horse of the role model, "I ain't one" is used by people who do exactly that; have the sex with the gas meter reader, in front of kids, yet demand respect and when a line is crossed, well, then the throw away line.

I will say it again....IT'S NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO BE ANYONE'S ROLE MODEL. Somehow in your mind this translates to me having sex with the gas man. That's nice.

Wonder what you say about the woman that had unprotected sex and goes and has an abortion. Oh that's right, that's fine it's HER CHOICE. My choice to sit on my deck and get drunk, though makes me a bad role model because for some reason I'm responsible for every fucking kid that sees me.

People like you make me sick. With the hidden accusations, and self righteousness, but you're too much of a coward to answer a question.

Let me be blunt..

RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS!!! K? Don't look or depend on other people to be their role model..it's YOUR JOB, if you didn't want the job you should have joined the pregnant woman and had an abortion.

[one_voice]

7. And don't hijack my thread...

start your own thread "for the fun question".

[Safetykitten]

10. Well, are there any societies run by kids? Other than Little Rascals?

[notesdev]

28. oooh! I know the answer!!

> Now for fun kids! Name a society on the planet run by children.

The United States of America!

[Iggo]

15. You don't get to choose whether or not you're a role model.

So either worry about it or don't.

But someone is watching you and taking mental notes.

[one_voice]

16. I do get to choose...

whether you like it or not. Anything and everything I do is MY CHOICE and no one else's. I will not be bullied into helping you raise your children. The only people I'm responsible to are my children. Role models start at home, not with strangers.

It just so happens I CHOOSE to live my life in a way that if someone were to watch me, it wouldn't be too bad. I make mistakes, but I'm a good person.

Would you be so quick to take a womans' right to choose away from her? Would you tell her she doesn't get to choose to be a mother? No, I didn't think so.

[Iggo]

19. I'm not sure you know what a role model is.

[one_voice]

21. I'm pretty sure I do...

since I've raised two kids...WITHOUT OTHERS BEING ROLE MODELS..and they're smart, kind, and very liberal. And guess what...they both agree that role models start at home. How 'bout that.

You can take judgmental attitude and shove it...because I don't believe what you believe I must not know what I'm talking about. How very tolerant and liberal of you.

[Iggo]

27. Now I'm certain you don't.

This ain't rocket surgery. Here it is, as simply as I can put it:

If a child looks at your role in society and decides to model themselves after you, then you are their role model. You don't choose. They do.

Now if you want to tell me to shove it again, go right ahead. I'm just trying to help.

Peace, baby.

[one_voice]

29. Ok, shove it...

Didn't need you help before tonight, and I sure as shit don't need it now. I know what a role model is, and yes it is my choice to act as I like.

Peace, pumpkin.

[blondeatlast]

22. Charles Barkley didn't--and I'm a Barkley fan, but he got that frightfully, miserably, shamefully

wrong.

Adults don't get a choice in the matter. We are.

[Safetykitten]

18. So true.

[Mojambo]

3. I think this is total BS. n/t

[bluestate10]

5. Agree and recommend. nt.

[flvegan]

9. Some entertainers and sports figures *can* be excellent role models.

They're not all Lohans and Vicks. Some of them live a very positive and charitable life while performing excellently in the public eye in their trade.

That said, nobody is perfect. Some role models will have skeletons in their relative closets. It's a matter of what they do about those skeletons.

Michael Vick is no role model. Never will be.

I take that back. I can never rule anything out. Vick could someday be a role model, I just doubt he has it in him to ever try.

[Safetykitten]

11. Agree, but this "role model" is code word.

Used to excuse the actions of what would be considered even in the most liberal arenas as disgusting.

How many stars and athletes fall back on that role model shit? The list is long.

[one_voice]

14. I know you're not accusing me of using a..

"code word" to excuse Michael Vick. Because if you are, you're gonna have to show me where I excused his actions. I NEVER have, just so happens this "role model" crap is a pet peeve of mine. Always has been always will be. I agree with Charles Barkley.

[one_voice]

12. I agree with this....

Some are/can be excellent role models. But the bottom line is it's not their responsibility. Nor mine to be anything to anyone. Not too mention when they fuck up--cuz most do--it's heartbreaking for kids. So why put them in that position. Nothing wrong with admiring the skill whether it's singing, or sports, but that's it. Parents need to make that clear. There's a difference.

I also agree with you about Vick, he's a piece of shit. I have two dogs and if anyone tried to hurt them, I'd probably go to jail for what I did to them.

[Withywindle]

23. +1000!

Yes, they CAN be. There are thousands of examples of top athletes, musicians, actors, etc. who are great in their fields and really do give back in a positive way (while still having the money and the glamor, because yeah, people--including, but not limited to kids--are fascinated with that).

Then there's role model in the field, and role model as a human being, and those really are two different things in some cases. It's one thing for a kid who wants to be a great football player to study Vick's technique on the field and learn from that. It's another thing entirely for a kid to want to be just like him in EVERY way.

To use a less offensive and inflammatory example,* if I had a kid who wanted to be a great guitarist, I'd be fine with him or her listening to Keith Richards and Jimi Hendrix all day to learn the ropes, but I'd rather he or she not get the idea that dangerous levels of drug abuse are just fine, or even worse, something that made those guys even cooler or greater.


(*because to me, drug abuse is just nowhere near as bad as torturing other sentient beings to death for fun. It just isn't, and no one will ever budge me on this.)

[one_voice]

24. Thank you for this...

Then there's role model in the field, and role model as a human being, and those really are two different things in some cases. It's one thing for a kid who wants to be a great football player to study Vick's technique on the field and learn from that. It's another thing entirely for a kid to want to be just like him in EVERY way.

To use a less offensive and inflammatory example,* if I had a kid who wanted to be a great guitarist, I'd be fine with him or her listening to Keith Richards and Jimi Hendrix all day to learn the ropes, but I'd rather he or she not get the idea that dangerous levels of drug abuse are just fine, or even worse, something that made those guys even cooler or greater.


I said this upthread...admiring skill is different than admiring the person and wanting to "be them".

[flvegan]

26. That's exactly what I was trying to say.

Thank you for doing it quite a bit better than I think I did.

[Withywindle]

30. Aw, thanks.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said on the Vick issue, by the way. I don't understand why his talent in one realm (which, AFAIK, no one here has ever denied) means I have some kind of obligation to "forgive" or "move on" from blood-curdlingly horrific things he did in a totally unrelated realm.

Yeah, he's one of the best football players of our generation. True. He's also a sociopathic, self-pitying, dog-torturing piece of shit. Also true. The latter outweighs the former for me BY FAR.

Or, to put it another way, does anyone really think that when he dies, the rather canine Anubis will judge his heart as weighing less than a feather?

[HEyHEY]

25. A role model's life should make a difference...

Just cause some one is good at throwing a ball doesn't make them a role model. For example, my role model while I was young enough to have them, was Trevor Linden. He played for the Canucks. Linden wasn't that great of a player, but he was captain and a hell of a good man, he started tons of charities, was the player's union head and was just an all round strong role model for kids. I liked him because he was a decent player, but also always seemed like superman.

So, your role model can be someone who does anything, really. People shouldn't expect anyone to be one cause of what they do though.

[ZombieHorde]

31. If a parent is a huge sports fan, the players of that sport are going to be role models to the kids.

Actions speak louder than words.

Jimmy Carter is great, but who watches him on TV every week?