Does anyone know the names of Terry Jones victims from the UN

[warrior1]

I wonder how their families feel about this man. He is directly responsible for their deaths.

[cleanhippie]

1. Terry Jones does not have any "victims."

He is guilty of nothing but being an asshole, which is not against the law.

[warrior1]

2. tell that to the families

nt

[cleanhippie]

5. I will tell that to anyone who claims Jones is responsible. He burned a book, he killed no one.

[pansypoo53219]

40. he yelled 'FIRE'

in a crowded mosque.

[upi402]

59. imagine no religion n/t

[warrior1]

61. that would be

awesome.

[shraby]

3. I find the American media are as much to blame as anyone

for putting Jones on the front page and top story for so long. He rightfully should have had no press coverage whatsoever. The media made sure that everyone all over the world knew what he planned to do.

[physioex]

9. To be fair....

There was a lot of intial coverage, but then he faded away. His recent burning was not reported by the mainstream media here, but the news did get to Afghanistan.

[Bragi]

22. You're wrong

US media virtually boycotted his most recent stunt. There has been almost no coverage of Jones until Friday with the emergence of murderous mobs in Afghanistan, whose knowledge of the stunt came from a statement made by Karzai, not from media.

[RB TexLa]

4. The people who killed them are directly responsible for their actions

[warrior1]

6. if there was a god

from every thing I've ever read, he would be burning in hell for this little stunt.

[cleanhippie]

7. Do you mean "if there was a muslim god he would be burning in hell..."

I mean, the christian god would approve, right, from everything I've ever read?

[Terra Alta]

64. Not the Christian God I believe in.

Jesus never burned any books, and I doubt he would condone it, either.

[Codeine]

8. No. The savages that killed them are responsible. Nobody else. nt

[Speck Tater]

10. New Bill of Rights: Free speech only if it doesn't piss off fanatics. nt

[Bragi]

23. Well said! /nt

[Codeine]

28. Speak softly or you'll wake up daddy.

The Abused Child Doctrine.

[warrior1]

11. I hold this man

responsible.

[cleanhippie]

14. Your posts have pissed me off, intentionally. If I harm someone, I am holding YOU responsible.

See how stupid that sounds? That is the argument you are making.

[Bragi]

24. Agreed! /nt

[Codeine]

29. Tonight's shooting rampage brought to you by Warrior1. nt

[iamjoy]

12. No, He's Not

The actual murderers chose to assume all shared these extremist views and punished them accordingly. It is a shame that they failed to recognize that not all Americans (or Westerners, or Christians) share this man's twisted outlook. I'm well aware of the irony of my statement.

This Jones is a class one jerk and if there's any divine justice I'm sure he will find himself in hell along with those who murder innocents in their God's name.

[ileus]

13. indirectly maybe....directly no.

[warrior1]

15. from all the attacks I'm getting

freedom of speech only applies to Terry Jones. Righttt.

[slackmaster]

17. I support your right to post stupid crap and illogical opinions on the Internet

And my right to call you out for it.

[Codeine]

30. Nobody is telling you you can't say or write what you'd like,

but we retain our right to tell you you're wrong. We do NOT, however, have the right to massacre a group of aid workers because of your statement.

[Rebubula]

41. LOLZ...

....seems your understanding of Freedom of Speech is a bit askew.

You are free to say whatever you want. I am free to assert that you are a fool\asshole\naive moron based on those statements.


Don't want to be attacked? Stay out of the pool during adult swim

[hack89]

43. You have the right to say stupid shit

we have the right to call you out on it.

[cleanhippie]

44. Wow, the victim canard. Well played, but fail.

Just as you are critical of Jones' speech and actions, many here are critical of yours. Yet no one, not a single poster that I have seen, has advocated that you should not be allowed to voice your opinion, as you are advocating that Jones should be silenced.


I think the word you are looking for is "hypocrite", not "victim."

[warrior1]

45. bull shit

Keep reading.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x794849

[cleanhippie]

47. Are you saying that your posts are bullshit?

I'm not following what your point is supposed to be. Did someone state that you should not be allowed to voice your opinion, as wrong, fucked up, and likely to incite violence as it may be?

[Zax2me]

46. No.You took Terry Jones' freedom of speech away with your post.

Don't you see that?

[warrior1]

48. Again,

bullshit

[cleanhippie]

49. Well, warrior1 is advocating for the removal of Jones' free speech, but he did not take it away.

Big difference, both are despicable, but not the same.

[dems_rightnow]

52. Help! I'm being repressed!!!

Your rights aren't being infringed on.

[Marrah_G]

71. I find you view of reality a bit warped.

[slackmaster]

16. Unrec for general stupidism

He is directly responsible for their deaths.

That is nonsense.

[pintobean]

32. +1

[lynne]

18. Terry Jones has no victims. And I'm betting that the murdering extremists responsible -

- for their deaths really don't care who they are.

[Modern_Matthew]

19. The only thing I hate about the freedom of speech is...

The kind of people I have to defend because of my strong belief in it. But, no, he is not directly responsible.

[warrior1]

20. this is small comfort for the familes

for Terry's freedom.

Peace everyone.

[cleanhippie]

37. Ahh, the appeal to emotion. Yet another fail.

[Bragi]

25. We always end up defending the most unpoular speech imaginable

But I'm with you all the way.

[BobbyBoring]

21. How is it that

Glen Beck, Limbaugh, etc all had "blood on their hands" in the eyes of many DUers for the Gifford shooting and the Richard Popowski police shootings but Jones doesn't? Is it because Muslims are involved?

Just askin

[Bragi]

26. Those DUers were wrong to do so /nt

[Codeine]

31. Not all of us held to that line.

I've never been comfortable with that position.

[Marr]

36. That's a very good point.

For myself, I'd say that it's obvious Jones acted a catalyst here, just as Beck or Limbaugh have acted as catalysts in other acts of violence. I'd never say they should be removed from the airwaves in the interest of public safety, however.

[MellowDem]

38. Most of it was directed at Palin...

because of the crosshairs, which could have been interpreted as a threat, indeed, Gifford herself said she was nervous about it before the shooting.

For those saying the same of Beck and Rush, then I would disagree. But threats are not protected speech.

I would say that Beck and Rush are assholes whose conspiracy theories can be irresponsible, but they have a right to it if they don't threaten others.

[Turborama]

50. That is a very good point

The Islamophobic kneejerkery is extremely strong on this one and my Ignore list has exploded in size overnight.

It's nice to find someone new to add to my buddy list, for a change. :hi:

[slackmaster]

51. I don't agree with blaming Glen Beck, Limbaugh, etc. either

My position on free speech is quite consistent.

[Occulus]

77. Suppose a "Radio Rwanda" sort of situation were to develop here as a result of their speech.

Would you still be supporting their right to say what they will?

I think the only thing that has kept that from happening in the US is our population. Those clowns simply do not have enough listeners who agree with that sort of thing.

But what if they did? And who's to say that won't ever happen?

For the record, I think if this riot had happened here because of Jones' little spectacle, it would be being called incitement and Jones would be in serious danger of some truly monumental jail time and/or some very large wrongful death suits, especially given his apparent recent statements regarding his intent. The only thing saving his ass right now from a legal standpoint (to my knowledge, which is admittedly pretty thin in this case) is the fact that the really bad result happened overseas.

[slackmaster]

79. If we had a government-run media encouraging people to break the law, we'd be in deep shit

Would you still be supporting their right to say what they will?

Government has no rights. Only people have rights. Governments have powers.

[Throd]

58. Nah, I thought they were full of crap about that too.

[DutchLiberal]

72. Beck/Limbaugh/Palin were directly advocating violence against Democrats/liberals...

Terry Jones, on the other hand, was not advocating violence at all. He didn't 'target' the UN soldiers over cross-hairs on a map; he didn't say we should kill all UN soldiers but leave two as a reminder of how they looked; he didn't pretend to poison the UN secretary-general...

That's the CRUCIAL difference. So no, you didn't have "a good point", as some gullible DU'ers above seem to think. And I also don't care much for your implications that those who disagree with you are anti-muslim.

[Obamanaut]

27. Do you mean the victims of the murderers in a country half way around

the world?

Terry Jones burned a book. He did not chop off heads. Did not murder anyone. Probably had no part in stoning of women in that part of the world either.

[Marr]

33. This assumes the killers are just a bunch of animals, unable to

control themselves when angered. It seems to me to speak of a very bigoted world view, where the enlightened westerner must moderate his/her behavior so as not to stir up the primitives. I'm sorry, but that's how it seems to me.

The bad guys here are the religious lunatics who did the killing, not the religious lunatic who burned a book.

[SDuderstadt]

34. Perhaps studying cases in which the Supreme Court...

found speech to be an actual incitement might salvage this risibly misguided OP.

[Shagbark Hickory]

35. I blame president obama and the media for acknowleding this guy. It's their victims.

[warrior1]

39. Terry Jones knew full well

that this would cause violence. That's why he didn't do the first time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015763-10391695.html

This was from Sept/2010.
http://gothamist.com/2011/04/02/pathetic_pastors_shenanigans_lead_t.php


Last fall, extremist mustache enthusiast Pastor Terry Jones, who really put the idiot into ideologue, did his best to stir up national attention and controversy on the heels of the "Ground Zero Mosque" debate by threatening to burn the Koran. After he placed his tail between his legs, lost the majority of his congregation, and collected a free car, we thought we'd heard the last of this silly, pretty pathetic human being. But he just couldn't let go of the media spotlight, and after a dormant period, he finally burned a copy of the Koran. And now, several UN workers are dead as a result.

snip

Pastor Terry Jones didn't kill those people; the reactions of some of the protesters was extreme and deplorable, a reflection of a culture which is still intolerant of criticism or dissent. Burning a book, or drawing a cartoon, does not warrant a response of death threats or murder. But at the very least, Jones set this particular tragedy in motion with his theological belligerence and arrogance. He blatantly attempted to antagonize extremists Muslims by staging his mock "trial" and "executing" the Koran...and what for? What was his point? What did the world gain, or learn, by his insulting gesture? His inability to take any responsibility publicly, to acknowledge the destructive nature of his actions, shows just how cowardly and selfish he is. We really thought we were done writing about Jones. We wish we didn't have to write about him. But this is important: fuck off Pastor Terry Jones.

[Shagbark Hickory]

54. There were dozens of you tube videos of people buring qu'rans.

Sorry but he gets zero points for originality.

[hack89]

42. You mean the mob's victims?

the one's that had absolutely no choice what so ever except to slaughter innocent people to demonstrate their outrage?

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. "Directly responsible" can only be interpreted as wielding the knife or pulling the trigger.

Words have meanings. Directly? Seriously?

Religious fanatics driven by religious fanatics with an agenda are "directly" responsible. There is NO OTHER WAY to see this.

[cleanhippie]

55. Well, judging by the consensus of responses, I would say the OP was big fat fail.

[warrior1]

56. LOL

[cleanhippie]

57. I'm happy to see you agree.

:toast:

[warrior1]

60. No

I don't agree.

I was laughing that you were so obsessed with this thread.

[cleanhippie]

62. I am obsessed with countering ignorance where ever it raises its head.

And you stuck its head WAYYYYY up high with this OP.

[warrior1]

63. wow

you should see someone for that.

[cleanhippie]

65. wow.

thats all you have? Another childish attempt at an insult?


:nuke:

[warrior1]

66. burning someone else

holy book, keeps others from reading that peculator book, is a form of silencing another persons freedom of speech as well as freedom of religion. Defend away if you must, but people are dead because of his actions.

[nessa]

68. He didn't burn their book, he burned his own book...

You believe the people who committed this act, have no free will? that they are basically animals?

[backscatter712]

67. Terry Jones is a douche, but he didn't kill those UN workers.

A bunch of Islamic fundies as crazy as Terry Jones did.

I really wish that those Islamic fundies would leave the UN workers alone - those that were killed probably had no idea who Terry Jones is.

But if the Islamic fundies assassinated Jones, I wouldn't shed a tear.

I'm perfectly OK with religious lunatics turning on each other and slugging it out, as long as they leave the rest of us alone.

[TheKentuckian]

69. Jones has no UN victims. Your OP is illogical. Muslims do not have the right to murder innocent

people in response to offense. No one has freedom from offense.

When you yell "fire" in the crowded theater when there is no threat of fire then you set off an event where people will behave in response to a real, direct, and present threat to life and limb when no such danger exists.
Burning Korans by the pallet has absolutely no reasonable expectation of risk to life and limb to anyone half the world away. These murderers were in absolutely no danger real or imagined. Burning the book had no impact on their well being and as such the reaction is insane by any standard. Yes...fucking insane. You tell me which book being burned gives you an excuse to go on a murder spree.

The logic is not even similar to yelling "fire" in a crowded room. The actual murderous guilty are the murderers and anyone who called for such mayhem as a response to the old hateful fuck's assholery.

Hell, these dumpsterfucks don't even have the excuse of imaginary danger. They have no expectation of being smitten for Jones' action. No, they acted as they desired for no sane reason and shouldn't be defended by putting the blame on some fucking fool being stupid on his property, destroying his property.

You might as well blame a lynching victim for inciting hateful rednecks by offending them by his talking to a white woman as blame Jones for these murders because there is absolutely no justification for the response in rational terms.

[Bragi]

74. Really strong point!

You wrote:

You might as well blame a lynching victim for inciting hateful rednecks by offending them by his talking to a white woman as blame Jones for these murders because there is absolutely no justification for the response in rational terms.

Good one! I will try to remember it.

And I will, of course, claim it as my own! :)

[Marrah_G]

70. Put the blame on the monsters who murdered them

[The Straight Story]

73. Your post offends me. Going to kill someone now, you are to blame (nt)

[Obamanaut]

75. Before Terry Jones was around, who did the extremists blame for their

beheadings, murders, stoning, whippings, 'honor' killing, hand removal, etc.?

They've been doing that for much longer than Jones has been burning books. Where is the outrage?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

76. My reaction to this thread is quite odd.

On the one hand, I strongly disagree with you about how guilty that douche fundie Jones is.

On the other hand, the resulting personal attacks on you give me a strong urge to hi-five you.

You've pissed off the right people, that's for sure.

[L0oniX]

78. Unrec