Be honest, do you know the actual definition of homeopathy?

[Godhumor]

I decided to write this as an OP, because I think it shows how easily words get conflated with additional meanings.

Yesterday I posted about the Pigasus Awards (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=800103&mesg_id=800103), a dubious distinction given to people who have gone out of their way to prey on the hopes and fears of others whether as psychics, pseudo-scientists or other charlatans.

CVS, one of the recipients, was singled out for homeopathy. In the discussions that followed, it became clear that many people associated homeopathy with natural healing/medicine and not what it really is--the belief in molecular memory (and a variety of other terms that pretty much came back to the same thing).

Homeopathy is the belief that, on a molecular level, things "remember" what they were in contact with. As a result, a medicinal solution can be diluted millions of times over, often until the medicinal component is completely gone, and the diluting agent will remember when it was once medicine. This is done via a long drawn out process of diluting a substance, giving it a shake (call succession) then diluting again ad nauseum. The final product is generally a sugar pill or filtered water (or other liquid) that contains minimal traces of the original agent. It is, in short, pure and total horseshit.

The most famous recent example of homeopathic rememdies is HeadOn (Remember, apply directly to your forehead?). It was sold as a homeopathic cure, but in reality was a wax stick you wiped on your forehead. The actual "medicine" (In quotes because they definitely did not do anything. In fact one was a known carcinogen) consisted of three active ingredients that were diluted to 1 part in a trillion (2 ingredients) and 1 part in a million for the other.

Homeopathy is not a part of the natural healing movement--not even in the slightest. It is the worst kind of fraud--promising expansive medical improvements without any ability to actually deliver.

[XanaDUer]

1. I thought it was some concept where you put something in water

then slap the water bottle around a lot, or shake it, or something, then drinking that water with the substance in it, will cure or protect you from whatever it is that is making you sick, or allergic? I used to work with a woman who was trying to sell the rest of us her potions.

Maybe I don't know. :shrug:

[Godhumor]

3. That's part of it, yes

You described the succession. The other part is dilution. You dilute, shake, dilute, shake, and keep going over and over.

If all your co-worker did was slap it but not dilute it, sit was probably a lot more effective than actual homeopathy, heh (Well, not really...).

[XanaDUer]

6. Well, honestly, I kind of stopped listening after awhile

she also tried selling us something about colloidial (sp?) something-or-other. She seemed to be trying to sell us a lot of stuff, and I found tuning her out after a bit made lunch breaks at work a bit more bearable.

She might have mentioned that step - the diluting. She also thought that the moon landing was staged on a set.

[Godhumor]

7. Oh dear.

I would have probably stopped listening, too. Or faked a brain hemorrhage.

[XanaDUer]

8. And she was a very well-educated, multi-lingual person

well read, and insightful about many other things.

[kag]

52. I might have...

actually HAD brain hemorrhage.

[Chellee]

68. I'll bet there's a homeopathic remedy for that.

;)

[JoeyT]

26. Colloidal silver?

That was a BIG woo potion until people started seeing people with Argyria on the news.

Good thing you didn't take it.

[snooper2]

53. Is there a way to tint that somehow for more of a smurf look?

Cause I bet there's a niche market for that :)

[Obamanaut]

5. I know that rubbing chicken droppings on your lips will prevent chapping.

You don't dare lick them all winter.

[arcane1]

2. Some get the word mixed up with "holistic" n/t

[Godhumor]

4. Yup, and I think that is how homeo got associated with nature or passed down cures. n/t

[Warpy]

9. Every drop you drink was once urine

and therefore remembers being urine and will therefore act upon your body exactly as drinking urine would, by concentrating the chemicals urine is supposed to get rid of until you are poisoned to death from the inside out.

Homeopathy was tailor made for hypochondriacs. Anyone who's really sick needs to steer clear.

[XanaDUer]

10. Sort of like Old Leroy Jenkins' Miracle Water

http://www.rickross.com/reference/tv_preachers/tv_preachers8.html

[backscatter712]

32. I know, I've posted this picture a million times before, but it can't be more relevant...

[SidDithers]

57. Good picture...

where'd you get it? :) :hi:

Sid

[backscatter712]

62. It was something I saw posted once on Daily Kos.

so I just googled it.

[Motown_Johnny]

43. So the Ogallala aquifer was once all urine? I doubt that very much

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer

^snip^

The Ogallala Aquifer, also known as the High Plains Aquifer, is a vast yet shallow underground water table aquifer located beneath the Great Plains in the United States. One of the world's largest aquifers, it covers an area of approximately 174,000 mi² (450,000 km²) in portions of the eight states of South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas. It was named in 1898 by N.H. Darton from its type locality near the town of Ogallala, Nebraska.<1>

About 27 percent of the irrigated land in the United States overlies this aquifer system, which yields about 30 percent of the nation's ground water used for irrigation. In addition, the aquifer system provides drinking water to 82 percent of the people who live within the aquifer boundary





That would take one big bladder.

[BeFree]

11. Right

It's exactly like the nukers are doing.

Dilute the nuclear pollution so it forgets it is radioactive.

<grin> <humor?><laughing yet?>

[Richardo]

12. Thank you, Godhumor

:applause: :patriot: :thumbsup:

[Sherman A1]

13. No but it really sounds

to be uninteresting to me.

But, that's just my opinion.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. I thought I did

until a DUer bitch-slapped me several years ago for applying it incorrectly. THEN I had to go look it up. THEN I had to do a mea culpa. So yeah, NOW I know what it really means. :blush:

[uppityperson]

15. It is confused with holistic and naturopathy too often. Yes, I do know

It can go even further now. There is some computerized program that they can hook up some sort of probe to a vial of water and using their computer make it into a homeopathic remedy.

[Godhumor]

16. Yeesh, all that work to hand out filtered tap water n/t

[eShirl]

64. Gah!!!

"There is some computerized program that they can hook up some sort of probe to a vial of water and using their computer make it into a homeopathic remedy."

[upi402]

17. Try finding a Naturopath that thinks homeopathy is bogus.

It's hard finding one, and definitely best done on phone intrview. An alopathic Dr who knows holistic practices but without a odd spiritual focus is a near impossibility.

[Godhumor]

18. I believe it would be very hard. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

19. I knew a little about it. Someone explained it to me 20 years ago so I knew

it wasn't natural healing.

[Liberal Veteran]

20. Homeopathy is bullshit. Learned people know that crystals are the best cure for what ails ya.

:P

[Godhumor]

21. Heh, please get in touch with your natural frequencies somewhere else

You're causing a whole lotta vibrations up in here.

[timtom]

22. As a matter of fact, I did NOT know the true meaning.

I have always made the lazy assumption. But, then, I've never really used that word.

Thanks for the heads up. I am informed.

[Iggo]

23. I thought I knew that molecular bullshit was part of what Homeopathy is about.

But I didn't know that was the entirety of it.

That is some serious ooga-booga right there.

[Godhumor]

25. Yeah, homeopathy is truly whacked

It is a shame that it still has a place today.

[Iggo]

28. And also, somewhere in the back of my mind...

...I think I was probably merging Homeopathic and Holistic into one thing.

This is what happens when I don't pay attention.

I do thank you for bringing this up.

[Godhumor]

30. I did so, because I think a lot of people do the same merging thing

I really think the "homeo" at the beginning makes it an easy thing to associate with natural medicine.

[Archae]

24. There are usually three steps to the attacks.

1. Attack the critic.
"How *DARE* you be critical of Dr Homeopath's cures?" :eyes:

2. Anecdotes.
"Rubbing goat pee diluted in tons of water cured my arthritis! Ow ow ow..."

3. Conspiracy theorists.
"Big drug makers have to keep diluted goat pee off the market so they can sell their own stuff!"

[Scruffy1]

27. And never a shred of evidence.

[blondeatlast]

37. LOLling--you've got the modus operandi down pat! nt

[Duer 157099]

29. Like cures like. n/t

[Godhumor]

31. Ah yes, the so-called law of similars

Nevermind it actually meets no definition of the term "law", heh.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. most people confuse homeopathy with ayurveda, natural herbs etc

i believe some herbs can heal. homeopathy however is a bunch of hogwash

[Godhumor]

34. Yup, I think the same thing has happened, as well

The "homeo" at the beginning just seems an earthy kind of term.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. i dont think homeopathy harms per se. i think if you take it along with allopathy

it can provide a placebo effect. however, taken by itself for real problems, is a very bad idea.

[stockholmer]

36. here in the EU, homeopathy's covered by many of our universal health plans,& regulated by the state

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. state regulation cannot fix bad science

[Godhumor]

40. And yet, it is still fraud

Just being covered by the government doesn't make it less so.

[blondeatlast]

38. I didn't know until a few months ago but I got educated right here at DU.

I thought it was synonymous with holistic and naturopathy--but homeopathy isn't even in the same league.

[SidDithers]

58. +1...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[BoWanZi]

41. I would love to hear some rebuttals from homeopathic supporters that can be taken seriously

Unlike that totally unbelievable Asian woman (I forgot her name) who is on youtube spouting off about how homeopathy and the cures work. She uses big words and name drops like crazy (Einstein, Sagan, and others). But in the end, she does nothing but make a fool of herself in the video. You can't just take her seriously.

I just can't believe that people really eat this shit up.

[mrmpa]

42. Isn't it...

empathy toward homosexuals? That's an answer I'm sure you would get from a tea partier.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

44. You're wrong about the minimal traces, I believe... N.T.

[Godhumor]

45. How so? The two most common distillations are to one part in a million (or less) or none at all

I think 1 in a million is pretty minimal.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

49. I think you're out by a factor of about a heptillion.

My belief is that the commonest dilution is something like one in 10 to the 30 - described as 30C. At that concentration you would not expect to find any of the original substance.

[Godhumor]

50. Right I talked about diluting to nothing in the OP.

I mean minimal in the definitive sense of "least possible".

[WhollyHeretic]

55. The duck liver garbage they sell at CVS says it's 200c

:crazy:

[Warren DeMontague]

46. I know it gives "utter, complete bullshit"a bad name.

:shrug:

[fishwax]

47. k/r

:kick:

[apocalypsehow]

48. I thought it was when you took a shot of whiskey and dunked it in a mug of beer.

:beer:

Kick, Rec.

[Withywindle]

51. THANK YOU for this.

It's a frustrating misconception, and we see it again and again. Yes, some traditional home remedies, Indigenous peoples' medicine, herbal remedies, etcetera, DO work, at least some of the time. That's because when you ingest a medicinal herb, you are actually taking something that has a sufficient amount of an active ingredient that's been known to help your problem.

Homeopathy...not so much.

[WhollyHeretic]

54. I had thought about posting something like this after reading your other thread

:thumbsup:
I've run across this idea all the time.

[SidDithers]

56. I do. Many defenders of homeopathy don't...nt

Sid

[csziggy]

59. I always align it with sympathetic magic

Sympathetic magic is based on the metaphysical belief that like affects like. Sympathetic magic is the basis for most forms of divination. The lines, shapes and patterns in entrails, stars, thrown dirt, folded paper, the palm of the hand (the longer the lifeline, the longer the life), etc., are believed to be magically connected to the empirical world--past, present and future. It is also the basis for such practices as sticking needles into figurines representing enemies, as is done in voodoo. The pins and needles stuck in a doll are supposed to magically cause pain and suffering in the person the doll represents.

<SNIP>

Sympathetic magic is probably the basis for such notions as karma, synchronicity, eating the heart of a brave but defeated warrior foe, throwing spears at painted animals on cave walls, wearing the reindeer's antlers before the hunt, having rape rituals to increase the fertility of the crops, or taking Holy Communion to infuse the participant with Divinity. Sympathetic magic is surely the basis for homeopathy and remote healing.

Anthropologists consider magical thinking a precursor to scientific thinking. It is indicative of a concern with control over nature through understanding cause and effect. Nevertheless, the methods of magic, however empirical, are not scientific. Such thinking may seem charming when done by our ancestors living thousands of years ago, but today such thinking may indicate a profound ignorance or indifference towards science and a testable understanding of the world. Most of us, from time to time, undoubtedly slip into this primitive mode of thinking, but a bit of reflection should wake us up to the fact that oysters are not an aphrodisiac, having a bit of good luck is not likely to influence our chances of winning the lottery that day, and stabbing a photo of an enemy is not going to hurt her. It may be true that rubbing an amulet given you by your true love makes you feel her presence, but the feeling you have, however magical it may seem, has more to do with biology and psychology than with metaphysics.
http://www.skepdic.com/sympathetic.html

Emphasis added.

[Godhumor]

61. Yeah, like affects like is known as the law of similars in homeopathy

Good catch.

[ismnotwasm]

60. I embarrassed myself

About a year or so ago posting on a thread about homeopathy when I was thinking about naturopathy. I never want do that again-- they couldn't be more different.
My husband and youngest stepdaughter both have MS, so we hear about quack cures all the time. They piss my husband off no end, and we try to guide my daughter as much as we can. She was diagnosed very young, 20, and is now 24 and is having a very hard time adjusting so is easy prey to those fuckers.

[WatsonT]

63. I've had several discussions with ardent homeopaths

who tried to claim it was about natural medicines and eating healthy.

Learn the ideology you're defending prior to defending it!

[Skidmore]

65. Actually it means remedies used when a person

has no health insurance and cannot afford medical care.

[closeupready]

66. Is it as effective as prayer?

??

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

67. The pathology of homogenization

It's been the ruin of the American beer industry.