Ralph Nader: Millions of people will be paying the bill for Obama's failure to fight for them

[Better Believe It]

December 14, 2010

Millions Will be Paying the Bills for Obama's Failures
Majority of One
By RALPH NADER

On Friday, December 10, 2010, Senator Bernie Sanders, Independent Socialist, of Vermont, came of age.

Last Friday, Sanders tore the covers off an oligarchic driven Congress and a concessionary President with eight-and-a-half hours of non-stop presentations of facts and figures and a plea for fairness and justice. His goal was not heated rhetoric, though he showed deep moral indignation, but to attempt to rally the American people "to voice their feelings" to their members of Congress via phone calls, letters and e-mails. C-Span carried him live, since he was the only activity on the Senate floor that day.

So what do we see from the President? Well, he boasted about being a community organizer in Chicago years ago. Yet for months, knowing what was coming, he failed to arouse the citizenry against the Republican tax cuts for the wealthy which Obama swallowed last week. He is known to be an expert poker player, but he displayed none of that skill with the Republican corporacrats, Rep. John Boehner and Senator Mitch McConnell. Where are Obama's touted oratorical skills? How smart can he be−undercutting his own Democrats and presenting them with the results of a closed-door sweetheart deal with their Republican adversaries?

Obama has frittered away his comfortable majority in Congress on many accounts for two years. And millions of people and their children will be paying the bill for his failure to fight for them.

Read the full article at:

http://www.counterpunch.org/nader12142010.html

[Scurrilous]

1. K & R

More Nader please!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[SidDithers]

2. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[RufusTFirefly]

8. I'd be embarrassed if I were you.

Your comment adds nothing to the debate. Perhaps you can speak to the points that Nader is making instead?

[travelingtypist]

9. +1,000,000,000,000 to infinity.

I will never forgive Nader for making 2000 close enough for the Bush thugs to steal.

[Better Believe It]

17. Off topic comment

[travelingtypist]

23. Quit being the off-topic hall monitor.

I'll ask permission next time I reply inside one of your special threads.

:eyes:

[MineralMan]

26. Not off topic at all. Ralph Nader IS the topic.

Why anyone listens to him at all is beyond me. Besides, you don't get to control the discussion. You just get to start it.

[MNBrewer]

48. but he's "irrelevant" to you

Why do you even bother to make a commentary?

[MineralMan]

53. Why would I not comment. Are you not commenting?

Do you suppose that I would not comment if I have something to say? Really? This is, if I'm not mistaken, a discussion forum. Everyone may comment. So...I do. Thanks, though, for your concern.

[MNBrewer]

89. he's not "irrelevant" to me.

[MineralMan]

91. OK. That's your opinion. I have a different one.

So, I commented. There it is. See my signature line.

[MNBrewer]

96. yes, I know, he's "irrelevant" to you

and you comment, comment, comment about how "irrelevant" he is.

[Dr.Phool]

93. If people would listen to him, we'd be a lot better off.

He may have a monumental ego, and be stubborn as hell, but he's usually right.

I rarely agree with you, but when you're right I admit it. In this case, you're wrong.

[MNBrewer]

21. Don't blame the thieves

Blame someone else, ANYONE else

[travelingtypist]

25. Ralph never copped to what he did.

He never accepted that he had any role at all at making that margin so thin.

Until he does, his words are worth less than the smell of the refuse from a hog farm.

[BzaDem]

28. "Until he does, his words are worth less than the smell of the refuse from a hog farm."

:rofl:

+1

[Chorophyll]

30. + 100,000,000

[MNBrewer]

31. Again, don't blame the thieves

By all means, aim your vitriol against Nader. Don't look toward the Supreme Court, or the "bourgious rioters", or the premature capitulation of Sen. Lieberman.... etc.

Blame Ralph Nader!

:eyes:

[Goldstein1984]

144. I would say that the people who voted for Ralph Nader

Were the ones responsible for making the margin so thin. Nader didn't divert the votes from Gore, Nader voters did, and they did it for s reason. My reason for voting for Nader was the neoliberal economic policies of Clinton/Gore, which I believed Gore would continue.

If votes are guaranteed based solely on party membership, then the electorate has three components: the Democrat herd, the Republican herd, and the mushy middle. The two herds, their votes guaranteed, are ignored while candidates struggle to put out sound bites to influence the mushy middle, who, like most of the candidates themselves, have the moral and intellectual depth of a cookie sheet. Nader offers an alternative. My vote for Nader was a very clear statement: I rejected both parties and their candidates. As for the damage done by Bush, he had plenty of Democratic support to do it.

Since I would never vote Republican (Here's where some says a third party vote is a Republican vote) the only available means of dissent is a liberal third party vote.

The party can disagree with and dismiss such voters, but clearly at it's peril.

[newspeak]

149. and, the demonization of any third party

is why the status quo will always remain. As we, as citizens, keep losing ground-social safety net, decent jobs, environmental concerns, constitutional concerns. I wonder why many blame those who voted for Nader; however, it's perfectly okay for a democrat to vote repug. I guess they stay within the lines of the two party system, so it was okay for thousands of democrats to vote repug but not for people who believed that the status quo was driving everyone down a slippery slope of one party corporate rule. Or it's okay to blame a third party over Florida creating a bogus felony list, thus disenfranchising some voters; or blaming Florida for voter intimidation at the polls; or blaming the butterfly ballots. Nor do people even give the supremes as much vitriol, especially two who definitely should have recused themselves.

No, it's just those voters who really believed that both sides were working together for the same masters. I lived in Utah at the time, so it really didn't matter. The joke there is the democrat candidate is the one who drew the shortest straw. But, go on, keep killing the messenger.

[pokercat999]

130. Yeah, why blame Gore for the worst campaign in history...

couldn't even win his HOME STATE!

Nader was not the problem, unless of course you need to be in the Democratic Party of De-Nile and down the f---ing river.

[ProudDad]

68. Al Gore said that

Al Gore did that...

Get a life...

[Webster Green]

107. Blame the thugs that stole it.

Nader met the requirements to run for prez. Our two party, winner takes all system sucks donkey balls.

[obxhead]

127. Your blame and anger will never be properly placed and a waste of

time, but that's your right as an American.

:rofl:

[pscot]

147. Fuck 2000

Nader has been right more often than he's been wrong. You can't sulk over history.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

111. Could you do me a favor and work in "rubber & glue" next time.

Thanks in advance.

[SidDithers]

126. Sure. Maybe "sticks & stones" too...nt

Sid

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

148. Right on!

[Ikonoklast]

143. I dunno, the Republicans like him.

After all, they gave him a ton of dough in his hour of need, you know, because Greens and Socialists just weren't digging deep enough.


Nader always stands for what he believes in, and the pictures of dead presidents on green paper is big on that list.

[MNBrewer]

3. I agree

and pass the popcorn

This thread concerns Ralph Nader and will bring out the Nader-haters in droves (one starts with B).

[The Gunslinger]

4. He's right again.

[Milo_Bloom]

5. Correct as usual!

[Autumn]

6. K/R The numbers quoted

in that article are outrageous. Say what you want about Nader, but he is right on about this.

[BlueJac]

7. K&R

[treestar]

10. OMG, the rich are getting a couple more years of an expiring tax cut!

Suppose they'd been permanent in the first place????

I thought the Republicans get all they want????

This is fucking useless. Useless people and their useless whining. Get over it and deal with reality! There is no way to make things not as they are!!!

[saracat]

16. Tell that to the President please. His "whining" seems supported by some.

Seems he feels insufficiently "appreciated" and had to send Big Bill out to make his case to the mean people. Hew hined about the lack of "appreciation for his crap signature HCR without a Public option and some said he had the right to whine. To paraphrase

"Useless President and his useless whining. Get over it and deal with reality! There is no way to make things not as they are!!!"
And the GOP will never , ever vote for you!

[Better Believe It]

18. "There is no way to make things not as they are!!!" What about that "change we can believe in"?

:)

[treestar]

63. It's inspiring

To work for change. Giving up immediately is the failure.

Hope and Change still applies. But as against reality. You can't change a thing if you won't deal with reality.

[obxhead]

131. Isn't that the truth.

Too bad Obama can't deal with reality.

[ProudDad]

70. Gee, who's the fuckin' whiner

"There is no way to make things not as they are!!!" :rofl:

[rhett o rick]

110. Wake up. The tax breaks are perminent. Not surprised you buy into the "only two more years" bs.

The tax cuts are permanent.

[rhett o rick]

112. While people are losing jobs, homes, retirements, health care, and you support the rich.

Sickening.

[BzaDem]

11. We are still paying the bill for Nader's fight 10 years ago. I'm surprised he wants to go there. n/t

[MNBrewer]

22. taaaa daaaaa!

[Cherchez la Femme]

136. *chuckle*

[Caretha]

115. You need to look forward, not backward :)

[Hawkowl]

12. One term Obama

This tax bill guarantees no economic recovery. Why? Because it further concentrates the wealth into the hands of the few who then hoard it. The rich don't provide jobs (well maybe in China and India with all the new plants they build). The unemployment rate will stay well above 8% with many, many millions more unable to collect unemployment or healthcare. And to add insult to injury, I would bet most of the rich will take their tax cuts, exercise their free speech and donate their (our) money to Rethuglican politicians.

[Ichingcarpenter]

13. I will reveal this now.... I gave more money to Nader in 2000-

In colorado because I went to a Jackson Brown and Bonnie Ratt concert in his support.. than I did for Clinton. that year.

I did vote for Gore though.

[Webster Green]

108. I voted for Nader.

It's hard to disagree with the points he makes.

[True_Blue]

14. K&R!

[Fire Walk With Me]

15. Instead, how about WE take responsibility for not handing Obama a mandate in the last election?

We get what we deserve here. He warned us, "This election determines the direction of the country". I had it as my autosignature and posted about it. Guess what, he was right.

[Better Believe It]

19. He got a huge mandate in 2008. And ignored it.

[RufusTFirefly]

20. Buying beer won't make you popular with bikini-clad cuties

In fact, it's more likely to leave you fat, lazy, and home alone on your couch.

Buying filtered cigarettes won't instantly put you in a rugged land of pristine mountain streams.

In fact, they're more likely to make it difficult for you to walk around your suburban block without gasping for air.


Most consumers are sophisticated enough to realize this.

And yet so many otherwise savvy individuals failed to make the crucial distinction between Obama the Brand and Obama the Reality.

[MNBrewer]

24. Wow...

1. Mandate given in 2010, squandered!
2. I voted for my Dems. Didn't seem to affect the outcome.

[frustrated_lefty]

43. Why? He pissed away the one handed him in 2008.

[Capitalocracy]

102. Why does THIS election determine the direction of the country?

Why did the 2008 election COMPLETELY FAIL TO CHANGE the direction of the country, when the very platform of the winning candidate and party was change?

Just like Obama to take an election he KNEW they would take a loss on and decide that it was the determining factor in deciding which direction to go. I mean, come on, progress has to stop because our party lost some seats? Great plan, considering the fact that the reason we lost those seats was because there was zero progress.

Obama's not a leader until you point him in the wrong direction. Then it's rally the troops and CHARGE!

[Ticonderoga]

117. Obamas triangulation and lack of leadership

brought us the results of the 2010 elections. Obama is a joke and if we don't find a viable candidate to challenge him in 2012 we can say goodbye to the W.H. as well.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenfrequed]

140. I half agree

But I do not blame Obama completely.

Sure he could have been more assertive but the real villain in this story is Evan Bayh who cut Obama's heels out from under him before he even took the oath of office. Bayh organized the blue dog democrats in the senate into a caucus and decided that they would rather benefit and feather their friggin nests than stand up and push ahead on the Democratic victory. Had they not been organized they could have been picked off or pushed one direction or another towards more progressive policy.

I do agree that the villification of Ralph Nader is stupid. He spoke to issues that the Democratic party was moving away from and should have recognized. Villifying him is a way of not having to deal with the issues he raised or the part of the electorate that has gradually been dismissed or margnialized and also speaks to the people that, if progressive issues were brought to the very front of the campaign, would be more energized. The lesson of Nader are the issues and if the people angry at him truly wanted to make him totally irrelevant they would embrace progressive economic ideas and stand up for them.

Sadly I have worked in the Democratic party since 2002 and I find that at the meetings I go to the people that bellow loudest about how awful he is are those people that are least sympathetic to progressive causes and most interested in campaigning and legislating from a more moderate-conservative angle. And this is in Minnesota where despite Nader winning 5% of the vote Gore STILL took the state!

[zalinda]

123. Don't blame us for Obama's failure

Put the blame on the Obama bandwagon voters.

Did you vote? Didn’t think so. We know why.
by Alexander Wilson
Dec 08, 2010

You’re young, you’re a minority, you didn’t vote in 2010. This isn’t surprising. In fact nearly every expert predicted that you’d stay home this past election cycle. The numbers support it too.

Seventy-eight percent of voters were white. Eleven percent were under 30. And a full 23 percent of the voters this past election were 65 and older.

The surprising thing is these results came after the proof -- with the historic turnout in 2008 -- that when typically apathetic sections of the population do vote, they change the results dramatically.

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=175392

zalinda

[seafan]

27. Nader is on the money. We will pay a very steep price for the Obama/GOP tax "compromise".

Nader points out:

.....

Senator Sanders filled the Congressional Record with statements about a variety of inequities and contradictions regarding President Obama's capitulation. Highlights follow:


--A Government Accountability Office report states that two-thirds of corporations making $2.5 trillion in sales over several years paid no federal income taxes.

--During the giant Wall St. bailout of 2008-2009, the Federal Reserve also bailed out with huge credit draws foreign banks from Bavaria to Japan. Such disclosures will be more common as a result of a successful Sanders amendment to the financial reform law earlier this year.

--The Obama-Republican deal would increase the deficit by $900 billion dollars over ten years but devote "not one nickel" to any infrastructure projects in local communities.

--He cited Warren Buffet and 90 other very rich Americans who wrote a letter to Congress opposing a tax cut for rich people like themselves.

--He cited the top one percent of the richest Americans who have wealth equal to the bottom 90 percent and receive 24% of all income. "When is enough, enough, do you want it all?" cried Sanders to an empty Senate chamber. (His colleagues had gone home Friday morning except for Senators Sherrod Brown and Mary Landrieu who conducted brief colloquies with Sanders while he rested his voice or went to the men's room.)

--The top 25 hedge fund managers each made an average of a billion dollars last year with much of that income taxed only at a 15% rate. The richest 400 families paid a 16.6% effective tax rate on average. The Obama deal would extend their tax cuts for another two years.

--There has been zero net job creation since 1999 leading to a decline in average household income. Inequality of wealth in the U.S. is the worse in the industrialized world.

--The U.S. has the highest rate of child poverty in the western world, in some cases five to six times that of Scandinavia.

--The Obama Republican deal would divert for the first time $120 billion from the payroll tax, leading Sanders to say this is the beginning of the unraveling of social security, "eating our own seed," he added.

-- "Let us be very clear: This tax applies only--only--to the top
three-tenths of 1 percent of American families; 99.7 percent of American
families will not pay one nickel in an estate tax. This is not a tax on the rich, this is a tax on the very, very, very rich." (The estate tax is reduced, while the exemption is increased, leading to $30-52 billion retained by the very wealthiest of estates over two years.)

--And of course over $120 billion over two years are left with the highest income rich, worsening the deficit in the coming years.

The very unfortunate reality is that it has never mattered how many Democrats we voted into office since 2006. Obama has shown us that he will continuously make destructive backroom deals with the opposition, even when his own party is in the majority.

How must that feel to those duly elected Democrats, that their president circumvented them repeatedly, only to present them with this latest "take it or leave it" approach on the tax deal, worked out in secret with their opposition?


Yes, Mr. President, this does indeed remind us of the public option.

[MineralMan]

29. Ralph Nader's irrelevance cannot be exaggerated.

Truly. My interest in anything that man has to say is absolutely nil.

[MNBrewer]

32. Your hate doesn't nullify the validity of his commentary.

[MineralMan]

33. Hate? I don't hate Nader. He's just irrelevant.

You're attempting to read something into my words that isn't there. Ralph Nader is simply not worth a minute of my time any more. He defines irrelevance.

[MNBrewer]

35. Ok, to YOU!

And upon what is your disinterest based?

And what, if anything, does your disinterest have to do with the validity of his commentary?

[MineralMan]

41. You seem not to be understanding the concept of irrelevance.

Never mind.

[MNBrewer]

47. ah yes

that you're the center of the universe. I forgot.

[Forkboy]

67. Don't flatter your intelligence.

[disillusioned73]

92. I usually ignore things that are irrelevant to me..

going by your Nader post count - he is very relevant to you.

[JoseGaspar]

154. And yet, you have commented no less than 8 times...

...in this thread on his "irrelevance".

He must be super-duper ultra hyper irrelevent...

[frylock]

40. yet, there you are in every single nader thread..

showing everyone just how irrelevant he is. first they ignore you yada yada yada.

[MineralMan]

42. I'm in a lot of threads. DU is not irrelevant.

It's a discussion forum, so I discuss. You're more than welcome to disagree with me, but you're not welcome to suggest that I should not participate in any thread in which I wish to participate. This is not about me, you see.

On edit: Further, I doubt very much that I'm in every Nader thread. I'll bet I'm not even in any more than a small minority of them. You exaggerate, I believe.

[hulka38]

54. He's relevant to a lot of people.

If Ralph had never existed, a la George Bailey, many more Americans would be dead or badly injured. That's a great legacy and pretty far from irrelevant and he didn't do any of his work out of the desire to become wealthy. He's also correct on many issues of great importance for Americans. At times like this Nader is more relevant than ever because people can be absolutely sure that his opinions aren't paid for by anybody. The man served many Americans who will never know his contributions to society and at the very least he should be respected.

[MineralMan]

55. Well, I'll say this: He certainly brought down the price for used

Corvairs. I owned a couple of them, bought at real bargain prices, after his book came out. They were safe at any speed I ever drove them.

[hulka38]

64. I always thought that was a sharp looking car.

Did you have one before the problem was fixed? His seat belt advocacy was a great thing.

Unrelated: I was browsing for triumph tr6s for sale the other day just to see what they're going for. Another very cool early 70s car.

[Zoeisright]

106. Bullshit.

He was bought and paid for when he accepted repuke money. And many, many Americans ARE dead because of him. Add up the victims from 9/11, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the 450,000 Americans who died in the last 10 years because they couldn't afford to go to a doctor.

Grow up.

[blindpig]

134. Hahaha

You think Prez Gore would have changed any of that? You haven't taken the lesson of this administration at all. Or the Clinton administration for that matter.

[JoseGaspar]

155. That bastard Nader would have lied about his real intentions...

...and then he would have escalated the war in Afghanistan...

...and kept Gitmo open...

...and refused to prosecute war criminals...

...and done nothing about foreclosures...

...and renewed the Patriot Act...

...and extended tax cuts for the rich...

...and other bad stuff like that, only in 2000...

...and he couldn't win anyway...

...the bastard.

[blindpig]

157. It's in the job description

When you're the 'leader' of the Empire how the hell are ya supposed to act? Capitalism has it's needs....

[hulka38]

153. I look forward to reading more of your

batshit posts.

[bahrbearian]

52. Kind of the same way OMC was always there.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[QC]

62. You noticed that too, eh? n/t

[ProudDad]

75. You have the right to remain ignorant... (n/t)

[Dr.Phool]

94. So you expend how much time on someone irrelevant?

I'd rather go to the bar.

[Caretha]

116. I'm curious

Do you actually disagree with the points in Nader's article, or do you just always allow hate (emotion) to rule your head irregardless of truth & facts?

Nader is obviously not as irrelevant to you as you pretend, or otherwise you would not spew such vitirol in his direction.

Which is it?

[creon]

34. His opinion

Which he has as much right to as anyone else.

It was Congress that did not pass the laws this country needs. Congress has just as much responsibilty for the last two years as the president does. It is a shared failure.

[MNBrewer]

36. A DEMOCRATIC majority congress and president

or is it forbidden to bring this up?

[creon]

44. No.

It is not forbidden.

It was a Democratic Congress. very sad and very true.

[RufusTFirefly]

38. Two words:

Bully pulpit.

Think of FDR's Fireside Chats or of JFK's ambitious goal to go to the Moon.
Then, as now, it was Congress not the President who passed the laws.

And yet in each case -- and in many others -- the President defined the vision and set the tone. The American people were inspired, and Congress was compelled to act.

[creon]

46. True.

That was a failure of Obama. He fell down on the job with that.

[Poboy]

37. Nader is correct.

[Lucian]

39. He's right, but hey...

let's attack him anyways. :eyes: :sarcasm:

I like him, but so many here blame him for Gore's loss in 2000 when many other factors were involved. And btw, I voted for Gore in 2000 and I don't hold a grudge against him.

[mdmc]

45. r

[MNBrewer]

49. Obama wouldn't have HAD to fight for people if Nader hadn't run in 2000!

:sarcasm:

[ProudDad]

76. Obama wouldn't have HAD to fight for people if Gore hadn't surrendered... (n/t)

[defendandprotect]

80. Since GOP stole the election, I'm sure they're delighted you didn't notice ....

Bush allegedly won by 527 votes in Florida --

300,000 "Democrats" in Florida voted for Bush --

Pleas explain how you know the specific 527 votes weren't those cast

by these Democrats?



Meanwhile, you might have also noticed tens of thousands of other votes

were taken by other third party candidates --


180,000 votes in Miami-Dade County were not counted as mandated by the

Florida State Supreme Cout because of the GOP-sponsored fascist rally

wich stopped the vote counting -- while there was no interference from

any police officials whatsoever.


When that still wasn't sufficient, they threw the decision to the right

wing Supremes who -- surprise! -- put Bush in the White House.



It was a right wing steal from the moment that Jon Ellis/Fox News -- a

Bush cousin -- arranged to overturn the calling of Florida for Gore.



PS: Gore won Florida --

[MilesColtrane]

50. "failed to arouse the citizenry against Republican tax cuts"

The so called bully pulpit ain't what it used to be.

President Obama's highest rated TV speech (on Health Care Reform) was watched by a little over 52 million people. That's around 17% of the population.

FDR was reaching an estimated 90 million listeners in his fireside chats. That was around 70% of the population.

Besides, when has it ever been easy to get people to demand tax increases?

Nader can suck it.

[laughingliberal]

59. No, it'll be all of us 'sucking it' for years to come. Wait'll we see what Obama won't fight for...

in the coming year.

[slay]

51. Nader is right - just like he was in 2000

suck it up haters - he was right then, he's right now. Do we really need to talk about who Gore's running mate was in 2000 again?

It's too bad people would rather blame Nader than blame the Dems for not getting their shit together!

[upi402]

57. Like conservatives, DLC and DCCC types are not able to admit they were wrong

They're as blinded by arrogance and outright conservatives.

[Ganja Ninja]

99. He was right about the Democrats too.

I'm getting tired of asking the same questions over and over.. "When are they going to grow a pair?" "Why the inexplicable need for bipartisanship?" "WTF?"

I'm beginning to think the difference between the 2 parties is like the difference between the good cop and the bad cop. In the end they're still both cops.

[laughingliberal]

58. K & R nt

[Still a Democrat]

60. Millions of people still paying the bill for Nader Getting Bush Elected

n/t

[Better Believe It]

61. And here I thought Gore was elected and that the election was stolen! My mistake.

Thanks for the info.

[iamthebandfanman]

125. shhh, you might upset the nader hater

with facts and the truth that the SCOTUS picked the president after there was massive voter/election fraud.

its so much easier to hate 1 person whos outside the party :p

careful, using critical thinking skills can result in head explosion :)

[Forkboy]

69. And for the Dems in Florida who voted for Bush, and the SCOTUS.

A costly bill that could have been avoided had the Democrats voted for their own party member....

[Still a Democrat]

81. Them too, but Ralph made it decisive n/t

[Forkboy]

146. Of course he did, because accepting any other answer would mean looking at ourselves.

And we Dems certainly can't have that!

[ProudDad]

77. Gore let bush get elected...

[Better Believe It]

85. Bush lost. Leiberman and Gore were elected.

[Still a Democrat]

98. The undeniable truth is Gore would have been inaugurated if Nader hadn't ran

And Nader knew that was a possibility, and didn't care.

[rhett o rick]

113. Childish logic. Bush stole the election and you did nothing. Now you want to rationalize

that the man that TOLD THE TRUTH, is to blame.

[Still a Democrat]

128. What should I have done exactly?

The tatics of Team Bush would never have been a factor without Ralph. I don't hold them faultless, I'm pointing out none of that ever had to happen.

[rhett o rick]

150. Ralph pointed out that both sides were corrupted and he felt an obligation to

speak out. I think your argument is that we need to elect the least corrupt and therefore muffle those speaking the truth. Ralph wouldnt have been a factor if Gore had reached out to the left. This is a democracy and Ralph was free to speak out. There was a lot of lying and cheating going around and yet you want to blame the one that was legally following the democratic process and trying to stand up for the American people.

This may all happen again as the Pres continues to spit on the left.

[harun]

103. In hindsight do you really think things would have been different?

Gore, DLC, Lieberman, neo-con corpo-fascist?

[Still a Democrat]

129. No Iraq war, no Bush tax cuts, maybe even no 9-11

That doesn't matter?

[bluestate10]

65. Nader, Yawnnnn. He still does not see the difference between Gore and Bush.

What a misguided windmill fighter.

[Better Believe It]

72. Does Ralph Nader agree with President Obama that the Republican party is looking out for us?

[Better Believe It]

86. Some had difficulty see a great deal of difference and still do between Bush and Leiberman

[Forkboy]

71. Nader, right or wrong, reaches few these days.

Even less on this board, where having a D in front of your name stands for more than half the people do.

[WhiteTara]

73. Fuck Ralph Nadir

May he rot in hell for all time. Oh, and by the way. Shut the FUCK UP Ralph.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

74. Yep.

No more need be said. Nothing we can do about it right now either. Just buckle up for the extended ride we've been on for quite awhile now and hope for the best.

[defendandprotect]

79. Obama's America is an America in shame .... !!!

--There has been zero net job creation since 1999 leading to a decline in average household income. Inequality of wealth in the U.S. is the worse in the industrialized world.

--The U.S. has the highest rate of child poverty in the western world, in some cases five to six times that of Scandinavia.

--The Obama Republican deal would divert for the first time $120 billion from the payroll tax, leading Sanders to say this is the beginning of the unraveling of social security, "eating our own seed," he added.

-- "Let us be very clear: This tax applies only--only--to the top
three-tenths of 1 percent of American families; 99.7 percent of American
families will not pay one nickel in an estate tax. This is not a tax on the rich, this is a tax on the very, very, very rich." (The estate tax is reduced, while the exemption is increased, leading to $30-52 billion retained by the very wealthiest of estates over two years.)

[Dawgs]

82. Don't like Nader, but he is right.

:hi:

[JamesA1102]

83. Just like we are all paying for Nader's ego trip 10 years ago nt

[Better Believe It]

87. Are you a shrink? What's your analysis of President Obama?

[JamesA1102]

133. Confident nt

[Better Believe It]

158. President Obama is confident about what? The future of bi-partisanshit?

[Le Taz Hot]

84. K & R

[disillusioned73]

90. What a surprise...

the anti-Nader tro//s are out... :nopity:

[Pathwalker]

97. So, anyone who doesn't like Nader is a troll? I thought calling posters trolls

was against DU rules....Many Nader haters have been on DU since DAY ONE of DU.

[disillusioned73]

114. Troll is a relative term..

if you scan through posts and see one in regards to what Nader says on our current political/economical situation and you go on to disparage the message with election 2000 speculation, then I guess the shoe is about the right size.

[Dr.Phool]

95. Expert poker player?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sit me down at his table any day.

We used to have some good games. And we always made sure we invited a couple of "experts" like him to the game.

[sirthomas66]

100. Don't care for Nader, but he's right-on in this post. Obama has

been this Democrat's biggest political disappointment. He has set the stage for a complete Republican takeover in 2012.

[harun]

101. Like him or not, when he says we do not have a two party system, he is right.

We have the Corporate Party of the United States of America and we live in a Corporate Representative Republic.

[bertman]

104. Nader is an American Hero. He's done more FOR this country than all of

the whiny complainers who blame him for running against Al Gore. What BULLSHIT!

The man laid it on the line in this piece and there's not one line of it that you cheerleaders can refute.

Recommend.

[Ticonderoga]

121. K&R

[davidwparker]

105. K&R

[Bluenorthwest]

109. I have a love/hate relationship with Nader

And I agree with him in this case, even more after reading the thread in which there is much criticism of decade old events and much vulgarity, but not one poster takes a single thing Ralph said and addresses that point. No, they all go for the personal, for history, for repetition. They seem to have no actual argument against Nader's points here, just against Nader. Hell, I agree about much of the criticism of Ralph, of 2000 and such. That still does not counter the points he's making here.

[smiley]

118. I'm proud to have supported Nader.

and I still support Nader.

[M_A]

124. Me too!

He speaks for many liberals. Shame there are some so narrow-minded they don't hear the truth that he often speaks. As for 2000, gore won the popular vote but didn't fight for it. The SCOTUS handed the election to the loser and there were no dems with balls enough to fight it. It was likely a set up from the start. I voted for nader, I would NOT have voted for gore if nader had not run. I would have found another third party liberal or written one in. Many nader voters would've done the same. So guess what, nader had nothing to do with gore's giving up the election. All you nader haters need to get over that mistaken idea.

[smiley]

156. agreed...

I was not a fan of Gore either. I especially didn't like Lieberman and look what that prick has done to the Democratic party since then.

[Lucky 13]

119. Go away Nader. Ten years ago you screwed everything up by getting too many votes.

So nothing you say has merit!

[somone]

120. Ralphie is right

Ralphie is usually right when he's not running for office

[iamthebandfanman]

122. R&K to piss off the nader haters

i know its easier to blame one person for the democratic partys failures , but its time to be big boys and girls.

[rhett o rick]

151. .................

[cjbgreen]

135. This year I get Ralph Nader

The 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen by the Republicans. Nader didn't steal these elections. Our political system is corrupt and Ralph Nader is one of the voices that reminds us of this sad fact. I did blame Ralph for 2000, and I thought that his involvement was a major factor in Bush becoming president. But seriously. Clinton's failures contributed to Gore's loosing, Gore ran a horrible campaign, the American public passively watched while two elections were stolen. We should have marched, demonstrated, taken action. But we didn't, I didn't. The American Press and our compromised Supreme Court contributed to Bush serving two terms, not Ralph Nader. I hate Ralph Nader's message because what he has to say about our political system is true.

[eringer]

137. Shut Up. You are the reason that W was President.

Crawl back in your hole.

[MNBrewer]

138. Don't blame the thieves, again....

sigh

[upi402]

139. lol

please read the greg palast book
and pbs' FRONTLINE; the betrayal of democracy

and then stop watching TV news

it's important to accept the facts no matter how tempting and easy it is to shoot messengers and point fingers as directed

[Turbineguy]

141. Millions want to pay that bill

that's why they vote republican.

[AllyCat]

142. But of course, Nader is a wingnut so we shouldn't listen to him.

Even if it is true and reasonable. :eyes:

[pberq]

145. Ralph is the greatest! Thanks for posting nt

[gort]

152. Self aggrandizing phony

Fuck Nader