Have you ever thought about expatriating?

[LeftofObama]

Hello, I'm relatively new here at DU. I've been lurking for a long long time and only recently began posting, so I thought I would introduce myself and give you all a little background about me.

Back in November I was diagnosed with AIDS. Although AIDS is not the death sentence it once was, my immune system is compromised so I have to be careful about being in crowds, etc. Through medication my T Cell counts and viral load have vastly improved, and I'm even gaining weight! Some days the fatigue can be somewhat overwhelming, but other than that I think I'm getting along pretty good. There are a couple of agencies that help with medical bills, (my spend down on Medicaid is $779/month) and I am on a patient assistance program for my medication. I applied for SSDI right after my diagnosis so I should be hearing something from them soon. They tell me if I am approved for SSDI I will have to be on medicaid for two years before I will qualify for Medicare. Since healthcare is now pretty much my number one priority, I have been thinking a lot about how much worse things are going to get here and do I really have it in me to keep fighting, which brings me to my next point...

I'm curious how many of you have ever thought about expatriating. It just seems like things are getting completely out of whack here in the good ole U.S. of A. and I'm kind of getting tired of fighting tooth and nail just to get by. I can't even tell you how many articles I've read about the income disparity between the rich and the poor (I'm one of the poor), but it seems no one is doing anything about it. I would love to help do something about it, but what?

I've been reading a lot about Belize, and it seems if you live somewhat frugally it can be affordable. Health care is reasonably priced (actually cheap compared to the U.S.). Utilities, public transportation, and food appear to be inexpensive and the climate is wonderful! It certainly seems like it's worth looking in to.

I've read a lot of posts from DUers and you seem to be some of the most intelligent people around. In fact, since I'm surrounded by right wing idiots, I find it refreshing to log on here and be around reasonable people with common sense.

Well, sorry for rambling on, I just wanted to know if you ever thought about expatriating and do you think it's a good idea?

[bettyellen]

1. luckily I'm also an Irish (and so EU) citizen, because I might want to retire there if I have

medical issues

[virgogal]

2. No. eom

[GoCubsGo]

3. Not since Dumbya left office.

[TuxedoKat]

4. Sometimes I think about it

I used to subscribe to this magazine some years ago. It is a pretty good resource for info on various places.

http://www.internationalliving-magazine.com/

Welcome to DU too, BTW.

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. Nnnnnnnnnnope. n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

6. I think about it often. I don't know if it is a good idea.

My problem is that usually you have no idea how screwed up the place you are heading is until you get there. I worry about that "out of the frying pan and into the fire" problem.

But you are right, some days, you just feel like it isn't possible to fight anymore. And then you fight.

Welcome to DU, I know just how you feel after being around RW idiots all day, then coming here.

[cali]

7. No, I live in Vermont.

Long winters but beautiful and sane.

[Codeine]

8. How would you make a living?

Getting a job as an expat can be difficult unless you want to be on the underground economy. Belize requires that you be "able to support yourself" - which currently means an established income of $60 a day without working in Belize - for at least a year before you can file for residency, and even then you'll need to meet some income guidelines.

And unfortunately it looks like they don't welcome people with HIV/AIDS.

http://www.belizehighcommission.com/faq.htm

[October]

9. First of all, welcome to DU!

No need to apologize for rambling.

I'm sorry about your diagnosis, and can understand why you'd think of expatriating. Our medical system is nuts -- fine, till you need them. The doctors I've encountered as of late just don't listen. And while "cancer centers" are popping up all over the place -- every corner in the suburbs -- nothing is being CURED.

After seeing Michael Moore's "Sicko," I was so sad that I didn't live in France -- and I'm not ill, but trying to get loved ones treated/tested is difficult, too.

In the end, we always figure we'll stay and fight the good fight for Democracy. Lately, we've been encouraged by the Wisconsin show of strength. As someone already stated on this thread -- you don't always KNOW the other country's problems. Here, we know what we're battling.

Still... I understand. It's been overwhelming lately, and I can imagine more so for you and your illness.

Best of luck to you -- whatever you decide.

[Shagbark Hickory]

10. Not a day goes by where I don't think about this. Like a corporation, I'm only looking out for #1.

And I'm looking for the country that can offer me the best opportunities with the most benefits and freedoms.

The problem is most of the other countries have a lot of problems. And many of them seem to copy everything that we do. (Bailouts, cutbacks etc)
I'm a communist, I'm not ashamed in the least to admit that. So I looked at some of the countries that are essentially communist or leftist extremists (venezuela, ecquador) and their leaders have gone absolutely batshit crazy.

So that brings us back to the essentials. Where can make a living and while at the same time not have to boil the drinking water. Obviously a universal healthcare system would be a requirement. Somewhere that isn't on the verge of cutting out their healthcare or privatizing it, somewhere that isn't sub-freezing most of the year, and somewhere that isn't too rightwing, fanatical, anti-semetic or too expensive.

Lets compare notes. At the moment I haven't got too many countries picked out. I haven't found any better actually. People risk their lives to make it to this country. And here we are thinking of giving it all up. It's a shame we have to do this all because of healthcare. Good luck and I'm glad to hear that you're feeling well.
One thing you should be aware of is that a number of countries bar entry to individuals living with hiv/aids. The state dept's website usually states whether a country does.

Edit: By the way, just about everywhere on earth has lower priced healthcare. And you don't need to become a citizen of their country to get medical care. You will need money though as medicare isn't accepted outside of the us. A lot of people go to other countries, particularly latin america for medical procedures. Ongoing medical care though.. not sure how that would work without moving there.

Keep your eye on vermont.

[WillyT]

11. 80/81, 84/85, 88/89, 00/01, 04/05...

2012/2013... still on the bubble.

:shrug:

[derby378]

12. Nope, I'm staying

If everyone just up and leaves America, it basically sends a message to the Bad Guys that they won. They are winning, but they have not won yet.

[AndyTiedye]

13. If Fuckabee or Palin Becomes President

[Shandris]

14. Yes.

I'd like to live in multi-year blocks in various nations ranging from Canada to somewhere in Europe, to somewhere in Asia. I don't think I'd like South America or Africa much on a multi-year basis...I'm very avoidant to heat. Would also make Asia challenging, but there is more than one clime to choose from. I would, however, like to at least ~visit~ South America and Africa though.

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. All the time, but no one wants you unless you're wealthy or offer their country something they need

You can only move to another country if you have X amount of $$$$$ and a guaranteed income/SS/retirement of a certain guaranteed amount (varies country to country). Some won't allow you to work unless you are in an industry that they deem important to their country. They usually have a list of what businesses they need workers for. If you're a doctor, you could probably move anywhere.

We almost moved to Costa Rica, years ago, but now it's too expensive and the crime rate is even worse than it was then. At the time, Costa Rica did not allow you to work at all. I have no idea what the rules are now.

Panama, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, Peru...all places we've thought about. It's not easy though. You can't just pick up and move...it takes a LOT of planning (years of it) and red tape.

London would be my dream city...if we could afford it. Ireland has always held a place in my heart...so beautiful. :) I think Europe, in general, is expensive though.

EscapeArtist.com is always a fun site to dream on. :)

[BlueJazz]

16. I have dual citizenship. United States/Australia .....sometimes I want to leave everything.....

...(here in the USA) and just say Fuck it and move to Melbourne.

But I'm still here fighting. :)

[Capitalocracy]

17. I was essentially forced to.

I married a woman from Argentina, and being a poor person, she can't come with me to the U.S. I don't meet the income requirement (which is well above minimum wage). But while there are disadvantages here, like the fact that I might be killed on the street when someone sees I'm an American and tries to rob me and discovers I don't have any money, or the fact that it's extremely difficult to make a living here (not the case everywhere in the world, but definitely the case here), at least I know that if I ever get sick I will have access to medical care.

In that regard, you're better off almost anywhere in the world than in the U.S. If you can get into Europe, I highly recommend you do so. Any claim to citizenship in another country you may have, take it. Also, you can get into Canada if you have an education (which I don't). Specifically look into HIV/AIDS treatment programs. You need a nation that provides free or highly subsidized medication. My lay understanding is that you may need to switch medications at any time, and the new ones are extremely expensive. I think Spain, for example, treats HIV/AIDS in a humane way.

What do you do for a living or what education do you have? Any direct descendancy from any other countries that might entitle you to apply for citizenship?

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. Only every day.

Here's a thread that might interest:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=227&topic_id=3440&mesg_id=3440

It may or may not happen. Plus I really haven't done the research. Plus my situation is different than yours.

All that said: my hunch is that there is a better match for me, quality-of-life-wise.

Your HIV status is a huge concern. You want to be privy to state of the art care but you want to have ACCESS to it also. I'd look carefully before you leap. Weigh the pros and cons. It's a serious move.

Welcome to DU.

[Donnachaidh]

19. yes.

My grandfather came here from Canada and joined the US Army because his father advised him to do so. He said at least the US would feed you properly.

If my grandfather was still alive and saw how our government cuts food and help to the poor, while giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs elsewhere -- he'd be heading back to Canada.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. I've seriously thought about it, but the places I like best make it extremely

difficult to move there (northern Europe, Japan).

Many of the "retirement havens" in Latin America have you living in a gated community with a lot of Libertarians who don't want to pay taxes but do want to be able to hire servants for $100 a month each. One of the websites is currently touting Ecuador. but a friend who has spent time there and still knows a lot of Ecuadorians says that the reason they're cheap is their economy is in ruins.

Europe is really hard to get into unless you have a CLOSE family member who was born there, but it varies from country to country. Some friends of mine recently applied to retire in England. They both had good pensions and had just sold their house for $800,000, but they were still refused.

Your HIV status is also problematic. Any country with universal health care is going to be tough on anyone who appears to be moving there specifically for medical care.

Your best hope is to partner up with a citizen of one of the countries that allows domestic partner visas.

[DireStrike]

21. Constantly

It's too hot here in the belly of the beast.

[Terra Alta]

22. no, because I can't afford to.

And because, even with all it's faults, I do love the US and want what's best for it, including universal health care. I feel your pain being surrounded by right-wingers; I live in red hell and DU is where I escape to for sanity.

[Cleita]

23. Good news and bad news.

I have dual citizenship with Chile and can return any time I want. The bad news is that I can't get my social security, which I would need to live on, there.

[Capitalocracy]

25. Why not?

Out of curiosity. I've seen people applying for social security benefits at the embassy here in Argentina.

[Cleita]

35. It's okay in Argentina but not Chile.

I believe that law was made so that ex-pat Americans, who were working for the American copper mining companies, would have to leave Chile when they retired. But since I have Chilean and not Argentinian citizenship, I'm out of luck.

[Capitalocracy]

36. I wonder if maybe you can't get away with it

I'm pretty sure you can live in Argentina or other Mercosur countries with that citizenship. I'm no expert, but I think you can. Either way, if you're retired and don't have to work, you always have the option of just crossing the border once every three months and being a perpetual tourist.

[Cleita]

37. I'm sure there are ways to get around it.

If I find I can't stand it here any longer, I might explore those options.

[WingDinger]

24. Thought of going north when Bush won.

[Speck Tater]

26. Another alternative is to go invisible somewhere like Slab City.

Just get off the grid and become invisible to "the system". If they don't notice you they don't mess with you.

(BTW: Here's a Slab City slide show, for those who might not be familiar with it: http://www.polarinertia.com/march03/slabcity.htm )

[Countdown_3_2_1]

31. Slab city looks cool...but "Outlaws" live there?

Is that just a colorful word, or is this a draw for the State Police to raid on occasion?

[Speck Tater]

33. A colorful term for the "hippies" and "weirdos" that owners of expensive RVs don't get.

It's actually a very peaceful place. Not as populated as it was in the 80's, but still a fairly stable population. Check out their web site: http://www.slabcity.org/

[Edweird]

27. Yes. Vancouver BC, but now with the Japan thing and wind patterns......

[femmocrat]

28. Welcome to DU, LeftofObama.

I have only considered Canada, mainly for the health care (and the sanity).

Wishing you well and hope things improve for you very soon. :hi:

[PurityOfEssence]

29. Barry Crimmins puts it best: "I wouldn't want to be subject to our foreign policy."

His stock answer for the old "If ya hate America so much, why don't you just leave?" line...

[wickerwoman]

30. I already largely have.

To be brutally honest though, if you have HIV you're not going to get into a first world country with comparable medical resources to the US.

I'm in New Zealand and they won't let you in if you have HIV, have ever had cancer, have diabetes, have any kind of disability implying long term, expensive care or are significantly overweight (over 40 BMI). Oh, and they won't take people over 50 either. I suspect it's the same for most other countries with decent health care.

You also have to have a very specific job and usually at least 3 years experience in it. So if you don't have exactly the right job, getting in can be a 5-7 year, extremely expensive and risky project.

I'd second Lydia's suggestion to start looking for a partner in that country because I think it's extremely unlikely, based on what you've said, that you are going to get into a country with halfway decent medical care.

[roody]

32. You have to enjoy hot and humid

to enjoy Belize.

[Raine]

34. Yes

I think if I was younger like in my 20s or 30s I would. It would be too difficult an adjustment now though.