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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:11 PM Original message |
Is blasphemy hate speech? |
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NV Whino (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:13 PM Response to Original message |
1. Hell, no. |
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bigwillq (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:18 PM Response to Original message |
2. No (nt) |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:21 PM Response to Original message |
3. Is burning a flag a good excuse for me to kill people? |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:21 PM Response to Original message |
4. Perhaps it is, but hate speech is legal |
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handmade34 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:59 AM Response to Reply #4 |
35. .... |
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reggaehead (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:06 AM Response to Reply #35 |
38. I wonder if they still hold that view |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:22 PM Response to Original message |
5. Who am I hating if I commit the ONLY unforgivable sin? |
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Rowdyboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:22 PM Response to Original message |
6. Burning a bible is okay....burning a quran is offensive....burning a torah is questionable.... |
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ET Awful (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 05:12 AM Response to Reply #6 |
57. I'd say burning a Torah is HIGHLY offensive considering how many were burned |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:38 AM Response to Reply #57 |
86. How are old and worn ones decommissioned? |
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ET Awful (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 05:50 AM Response to Reply #86 |
87. How are old flags decommissioned? Do you know? |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 07:41 AM Response to Reply #87 |
90. No, but what I am saying is that the communicative "speech" is elsewhere |
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ET Awful (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 12:49 PM Response to Reply #90 |
111. I love how people imply that doing xxxx isn't offensive because it's done by so and so |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 01:34 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. You seem to determined to misunderstand the point |
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ET Awful (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 01:48 PM Response to Reply #113 |
114. None of which disproves my statement that burning a Torah would be offensive. |
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Township75 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:43 AM Response to Reply #6 |
68. 0.7-1.7 billion people are a minority? |
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Lucian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:58 PM Response to Reply #6 |
119. I say burn them all. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:23 PM Response to Original message |
7. For "hate speech" to make legal sense you have to first define "hate". |
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HuckleB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:25 PM Response to Original message |
8. If it was, then anything an atheist says would be "hate speech," no? |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:25 PM Response to Original message |
9. Not at all...what is this, the dark ages??..nt |
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Codeine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:30 PM Response to Original message |
10. There is no such thing as "hate speech." |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:19 PM Response to Reply #10 |
18. Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 29(2) |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:36 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. How is what Jones did "outside the range of what is purely expressive"? |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:33 AM Response to Reply #22 |
26. Start with my last question and walk backwards |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:40 AM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Is an act not a form of expression? |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:11 AM Response to Reply #27 |
40. Lewdness is a type of expression |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:23 AM Response to Reply #40 |
42. You think that burning a book only has expressive value in a certain context? |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:37 AM Response to Reply #42 |
45. I could be burning household refuse, including books and magazines |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:45 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. But now you've changed the definition of what you're burning. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:58 AM Response to Reply #47 |
49. Because you couldn't ban "holy book burning" |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:02 AM Response to Reply #49 |
50. None of that answered my question. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:13 AM Response to Reply #50 |
53. If someone is out burning, say, tampons... |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:15 AM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Whether you "get it" or not is irrelevant to the expressive nature of the act. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:26 AM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Or it could just be a crazy person out burning tampons |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:25 AM Response to Reply #40 |
44. BTW, lewdness falls under the non-protected category of obscenity, |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:44 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. "Lewd" and "obscene" are two different categories |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:49 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. Now you're just trying to put words in my mouth. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:06 AM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Fine, but my intent is simply to educate |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:11 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. And I told you WHY one of those was illegal above. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:22 AM Response to Reply #52 |
55. IMHO it's totally arbitrary |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:36 PM Response to Reply #55 |
77. I disagree |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:19 AM Response to Reply #77 |
82. You don't get the point |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 10:13 AM Response to Reply #82 |
101. I disagree with your assessment. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 10:57 AM Response to Reply #101 |
105. Try nude dancing on your street, and see what happens |
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Bandit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 03:05 PM Response to Reply #22 |
79. How about yelling fire in a crowed theatre? |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 05:06 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. Actually, in the colloquial way that phrase is used, it's considered inciting to riot. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:13 AM Response to Reply #80 |
91. You are really hung up on those five categories |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 10:19 AM Response to Reply #91 |
103. Defamation can be either criminal or civil, depending on the status of the claimed defamed. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 11:13 AM Response to Reply #103 |
107. "Hundreds of years" |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:36 PM Response to Reply #107 |
115. My problem with your characterization, here and above, is that you treat things too fluidly. |
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msanthrope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:52 PM Response to Reply #107 |
116. I LOVE that book!!! That, and "Girls Lean Back Everywhere." n/t |
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melm00se (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 07:30 AM Response to Reply #18 |
59. I have always had problems with this Section of the UDHR |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:36 AM Response to Reply #59 |
64. However |
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melm00se (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:01 PM Response to Reply #64 |
71. pornography |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:23 AM Response to Reply #71 |
84. Sigh.. One could also construct a multi factor test for other things |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:25 PM Response to Reply #18 |
73. What if he'd burned a flag, acceptable or not? |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:36 AM Response to Reply #73 |
85. Burning a flag, a Koran, his trousers, etc. are all perfectly legal in the US |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:35 AM Response to Reply #85 |
97. You claimed that: |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 09:16 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. Yes, you misread me |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 09:57 AM Response to Reply #99 |
100. If I misread you then I apologize |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 10:39 AM Response to Reply #100 |
104. Just cranky here, no prob /nt |
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Goblinmonger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:17 AM Response to Reply #18 |
93. Your last example is a Time, Place, Manner problem |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 11:16 AM Response to Reply #93 |
108. I know, but you are skipping ahead |
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msongs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:31 PM Response to Original message |
11. there is no such thing as blasphemy, that is a construct to murder non believers of whatever cult nt |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:52 AM Response to Reply #11 |
69. +1 |
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Kurmudgeon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:39 PM Response to Original message |
12. Blasphemy is disrespect, is disrespect hateful? |
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Goblinmonger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:20 AM Response to Reply #12 |
94. Blasphemy is not disrespect. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:58 PM Response to Original message |
13. We so not have a legal definition of "hate speech" in the US |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:09 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. I'll admit that's part of the problem, |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:22 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. A better question is "what symbolic actions qualify as speech" under the first amendment |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:34 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Then why waste your time here? |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:24 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. I will manage my own time, thank you |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:43 AM Response to Reply #24 |
28. Which actually shows some of what your opinion on this topic is. |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:57 AM Response to Reply #28 |
33. Lol |
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johnaries (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 10:58 PM Response to Original message |
14. It depends - is the said "blasphemy" intended or likely to incite |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:06 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. I'm afraid it cannot depend. |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:46 AM Response to Reply #14 |
31. So "I'm Gay" or "please fill my birth control prescription" can be considered hate speech? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:13 PM Response to Original message |
17. Deleted message |
Zoeisright (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:22 PM Response to Original message |
20. No. |
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Adsos Letter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-03-11 11:54 PM Response to Original message |
23. No. And anti-blasphemy laws could theoretically be used to quash |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:44 AM Response to Reply #23 |
30. Exactly. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:30 AM Response to Original message |
25. Clearly it is not |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:44 AM Response to Original message |
29. "Hate" speech is not an objective category. ALL speech is protected by the 1st amendment |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:48 AM Response to Reply #29 |
32. No it isn't |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 12:57 AM Response to Reply #32 |
34. The 5 categories of unprotected speech: |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:02 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. So, to summarize, you believe that blasphemy is protect speech, correct? |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:04 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Absolutely. It seems to me it's protected by several parts of the 1st amendment |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:09 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. We are in total agreement. |
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Warren DeMontague (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:17 AM Response to Reply #39 |
41. yes |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 01:23 AM Response to Reply #41 |
43. There's a first time for everything. |
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hobbit709 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 05:18 AM Response to Original message |
58. the crime of insulting an imaginary sky wizard. |
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pipi_k (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 07:45 AM Response to Reply #58 |
61. My thought exactly, only much better worded! |
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Nevernose (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 08:09 AM Response to Reply #58 |
62. That's offensive. He's not imaginary, just invisible. |
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hobbit709 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 08:12 AM Response to Reply #62 |
63. "Man rarely, if ever, has dreamed up a god superior to himself |
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Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 07:45 AM Response to Original message |
60. Yes it is, in many ways. |
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StarlightGold (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:37 AM Response to Original message |
65. Uhh...no. |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:38 AM Response to Original message |
66. If you were a Fundie, I suppose so |
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hifiguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:38 AM Response to Original message |
67. No, it is not. n/t |
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Iggo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:53 AM Response to Original message |
70. Give me the legal definitions of 'blasphemy' and 'hate speech.' (n/t) |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:27 PM Response to Reply #70 |
75. blasphemy: something the individual in question doesn't want to hear |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:24 PM Response to Original message |
72. Jesus tapdancing Christ, no. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:26 PM Response to Original message |
74. Better yet: make blasphemy officially illegal |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 02:27 PM Response to Original message |
76. No - Simple answer. Though some would make it so. |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 03:03 PM Response to Original message |
78. No. Blasphemy is awesome. |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-04-11 09:46 PM Response to Original message |
81. so who defines what is blasphemy? |
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Capitalocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:21 AM Response to Original message |
83. No, but burning books is. |
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ReggieVeggie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 06:18 AM Response to Original message |
88. Being an atheist, many would consider me to be a de facto blasphemer |
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Courtesy Flush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 06:27 AM Response to Original message |
89. Blasphemy is a victimless crime. nt |
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msanthrope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:53 PM Response to Reply #89 |
117. Beat me to it. n/t |
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JoePhilly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:16 AM Response to Original message |
92. That's how the far right sees it. Either you believe as they do, or ... |
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Dorian Gray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:20 AM Response to Original message |
95. No |
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Taitertots (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:22 AM Response to Original message |
96. Only if as an Atheist I get to determine what is blasphemy against Atheism |
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Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 08:36 AM Response to Original message |
98. Nope. n/t |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 10:14 AM Response to Original message |
102. Fuck the Pope |
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leeroysphitz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 11:07 AM Response to Original message |
106. It is a little bit... |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 11:17 AM Response to Original message |
109. Courts lack "institutional competence" to determine what is, or what is not, "blasphemy" |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 11:25 AM Response to Original message |
110. Steve Hughes on being offended pretty much sums it up for me. |
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ET Awful (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 12:52 PM Response to Original message |
112. No, but burning pretty much any book is moronic and self-serving and serves no purpose |
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Lucian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 02:57 PM Response to Original message |
118. Jesus fucking Christ. Goddamn. |
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darkstar3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-05-11 04:49 PM Response to Reply #118 |
120. +1 |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Apr 25th 2024, 07:56 AM Response to Original message |
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