Bob Herbert; ""We are witnessing the birth of a new class — the involuntarily retired."

[kpete]

...........................

Older workers who are jobless are caught in a particularly precarious state of affairs. As the report put it:

"We are witnessing the birth of a new class — the involuntarily retired. Many of those over age 50 believe they will not work again at a full-time ‘real’ job commensurate with their education and training. More than one-quarter say they expect to retire earlier than they want, which has long-term consequences for themselves and society. Many will file for Social Security as soon as they are eligible, despite the fact that they would receive greater benefits if they were able to delay retiring for a few years." ...

The zealots reading the economic tea leaves see brighter days ahead. They can afford to be sanguine. They’re working.

MORE:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/opinion/28herbert.html?_r=2&hp

[Fumesucker]

1. Raises hand...

I don't expect to ever work for someone else again.

Too old to rock 'n roll, too young to die.

[WinkyDink]

3. NEVER "Too old to rock 'n roll"!!!

[tech9413]

20. I'm there, quit working in '02. It was a personal choice

My field was electronics repair. I love to figure out how things work and find out why they don't. My problem was threefold. First manufacturers wouldn't share information to protect their intellectual property, then employers would do anything and everything to maximize profit, screw the customer, screw the workers. That kind of thinking is totally self destructive. It's a symptom of the failure of general business mentality. The only thing that matters is next quarter profits, screw long term viability.
Then there's the throw-away mentality that technology has advanced. If I wanted to fix most electronics equipment sold these days, I'd need to invest tens of thousands and couldn't expect a ROI for decades.

My only choice is to work for myself fixing vintage electronics.

[Fumesucker]

21. Funny, I did similar work..

And you are right about the problems with that kind of work, most electronics these days is not really repairable.

I had a pretty good business going for a while repairing industrial control systems but that has petered out with the loss of manufacturing jobs, it just wasn't worthwhile to keep going with the paltry few clients I had left.

Now I'm retrofitting older CNC machinery to PC based control systems but it's a tough market thanks again to the loss of manufacturing in the USA. A lot of the old iron is still mechanically in good shape but the electronics are pathetic, think where computers were in 1985, that's the vintage equipment I'm dealing with now, it's far easier to rip everything out and replace it with a PC and an interface board or two.

[Journeyman]

33. We are never too old to rock 'n' roll yet we are always too young to die!

[WinkyDink]

2. "they would receive greater benefits if they were able to delay retiring": 1. Depends on longevity;

2. Take the money and run, for who knows what changes will be wrought prior to one's request.

[alterfurz]

11. for many working-class boomers, early payout is the better bet

If you wait until full retirement age to start receiving benefits, you then have to live until 75 to catch up in payment total with someone who started benefits at 62. Since only one male on either side of my blue-collar family has ever yet won that longevity bet, I signed up on the first day I was eligible for SS!

[WinkyDink]

12. I'm 61 and thinking seriously about my options. My mother is 86, but my father died at 64. I think I

will spend it while I can. :-)

[Igel]

13. Rather depends on your take-home pay before retirement, doesn't it?

My parents retired when they could. My mother's 83. She's certainly brought home her share of government benefits. Good for her.

I mean, if she'd worked for a few more years she'd actually have had *more* money, since her take-home wages were three times higher than her Social Security benefits are now. With the house paid off, cars paid off, and nothing but property tax and routine living expenses she'd have packed away money for retirement. But then, although she'd have had a more lavish 20 years, she wouldn't have drawn as much "free" money as possible. Apparently that's the name of the game.

JFK was most certainly wrong. He foolishly said, "Ask not what your country can do for you." What he should have said is, "Figure out how to get every last cent you can out of your country before others can--don't just ask what your country can do for you, demand that your country do as much as possible for you, even you can do them for yourself!"

[WinkyDink]

18. Wow. Mother's Day must be a blast at your house.

[daa]

15. Yes I just ran the numbers and you are correct nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. something I hadn't considered. n/t

[eridani]

28. Same here. My grandmother died at age 53 and my father at age 59

People from lower income backgrounds have lower life expectancies--better the bird in the hand.

[whattheidonot]

23. correct.

It takes about 10 years to make up the difference of taking social security early. No telling what kind of dollars there will be then

[SpiralHawk]

4. Involuntarily retired = 'useless proles' in RepubliCorp terminology

The republicon plan to 'take care' of America's elders:

[lonestarnot]

39. White House, Capital or Courthouse?

[RegieRocker]

5. Correct me if I am wrong but

wouldn't that break Social Security if that were happening?

[Igel]

16. It certainly won't help.

Then again, most people think that general revenues that reimburse SS bonds are somehow free money. Or should be.

At the same time, though, there are also predictions that since baby boomers' personal savings accounts were ravaged they'll postpone retirement. This would help SS.

I think the problem is in the numbers. Most baby boomers are employed, if you look beyond the occasional anecdote. If enough work longer they'll pay enough in FICA to offset the increased payments to those who aren't.

[Bandit]

19. Best way to fix that is to reduce payroll taxes by a third.

:shrug: Don't worry they have it covered....

[JackDragna]

6. Things like this make me wish I owned a business...

..I'd hire every castoff that some other business thought was "too old." Whatever the hell happened to, you know, actually hiring people who had the experience to do the job well? Oh, right, right, I forgot. Those kind of people might, you know, want to be paid more than a handful of magic beans.

[LiberalEsto]

7. I'm one of them

Almost 59, worked as a newspaper reporter for more than 25 years, now obsolete. If I could afford re-training I'd do it, but it's probably pointless. What company is going to hire a 59-year-old woman these days?

[elocs]

8. I'll be 59 next year, currently unemployed, and I won't retrain for anything.

Why waste my time? I can live on a very small amount of money with my lifestyle of simplicity and when I am 62 I will eagerly and voluntarily retire.

[Buns_of_Fire]

10. I'll be turning 60, and I'm with you.

Hell, the last "real" job I had was working on Y2K remediation projects: "Gee, thanks, you saved us from a world of hurt -- now hit the road, gramps." (Which did wonders for my attitude towards corporations, which was never all that high to begin with.) Now, screw 'em all. All I have to do is survive another 766 days (but who's counting?) and I'll be "officially" retired and getting considerably more to live on than I do today.

...If Alan "Son of Nosferatu" Simpson doesn't get to it first, of course.

[eridani]

29. That was the last real work my husband had. If you want to fix old programs

--hire an old programmer. He remembers Fortran I and II. Since then, zilch, so why not take the early Social Security?

[prolesunited]

36. Another newspaper refugee here

And the market is flooded with us, so the competition for jobs in related fields is crazy. I'm a little bit younger than you, but I understand the point about retraining. Right now I'm surviving because of minimal debts. My nightmare would be acquiring mounds of debt -- and student loan debt is nondischargeable in a bankruptcy -- and still not being able to find a job since I will be older than 50 when I am finished. I will be worse off since they will be garnishing my SS check to settle the student loans.

I certainly can't retire, but I'm thinking I will be living a life of simplicity (poverty) until I do.

I think the entire tail end of the boomers will be lost in this mess.

[rhett o rick]

9. Raising the "retirement age" is misleading. It implies that people will work longer.

But they wont work longer. Raising the retirement age means they will be without SS benefits longer.

[avaistheone1]

14. It also means

that people will be with out health care longer too. If you don't have a job you can't afford health care, and once you hit 50 the health insurance companies jack their rates into the stratosphere. The rates are so high on the 50+ set that almost noone can afford it.

[gkhouston]

38. It implies someone WANTS them to work longer. My dad retired years ago at 62.

It was back before companies were doing overt layoffs. Instead, they offered retirement packages to hustle the older, more experienced and expensive employees (with pensions) out the door and replace them with new hires who got the 401K package. And behind it all was the not-very-veiled threat that if some retiring didn't happen, then some layoffs would.

[ljm2002]

40. Not only that...

...it means the benefits will be less, since SS benefits are calculated based on what was paid in over one's work life. If you don't work for the last few years before retirement, the benefits will be less than if you are able to work right up to retirement.

With today's job market, that means more and more people will see dwindling returns in their Social Security along with all the other hardships.

[hobbit709]

17. Count me in on that. Year and a half to go to file for SS.

[oldlib]

22. I was forced to retire

at age 62. You pay a penalty, as the SS is less then at age 65 and finding jobs at that age is nearly impossible.

[DavidDvorkin]

24. That's me

67 and well qualified. I'm now calling myself semi-retired, but the semi part will keep fading away.

[bvar22]

25. My wife & I are both members of this group.

We are learning to Live Well on Less, and doing OK,
but HealthCare is a BIG concern.
We really thought the "Democrats" were going to do something for us besides MANDATING us into the arms of the For Profit Vampires.

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. I read somewhere that 3 of 4 are now retiring at 62, as soon as eligible. n/t

[eridani]

30. And if they weren't, think of what the unemployment rate would be

I'd just as soon leave the jobs to people in their child-raising years.

[hfojvt]

31. wow, life is tough

Only once in my 26 years of working have I worked in a job commensurate with my education.

That's what happens when too damn many people goto college.

[bvar22]

35. Rush, Palin, and Mitch McConnel couldn't have said it better.

What America needs is a large uneducated, peasant Working Class, and only a handful of elites who can afford a decent education!!!!

Well Lucky You.
Our politicians of BOTH Parties are granting your wish!

[hfojvt]

37. presumably one gets a fair amount of education from high school

Do you think it is better for janitors and cab drivers to have University degrees and to be trying to pay off student loans?

Oddly enough, people can also become educated by reading books that they can either get for $2.50 in late chahges at the public library or they can buy from amazon for much less than the cost of a useless degree from the University of Nebraska (I just never tire of giving my worthless alma mater bad publicity).

[bvar22]

41. No.

I want FREE Quality Universal Education for anyone who wants it.
That works well in civilized countries.


"When we all do better, we ALL do better."---Paul Wellstone

[hfojvt]

42. really, because one country with one of the highest rates of graduation

apparently charges tuition http://www.acadiau.ca/registrar/Current%20Calendar/Fees.pdf

and then there is room and board. Back when I went to college from 1980-1985, the total cost for the five years was about $10,000 for tuition and $15,000 for room and board.

[truedelphi]

32. One of the dirty little secrets of the current actuary crowd -

The Baby Boomers probably will not be living as long as their parent's generation.

While the Greatest Generation grew up on organic food (Pestides were not utilized much until after WWII,) the Baby Boomers grew up on diets of Wonder Bread and Soda Pop. Plus high levels of radioactivity in the atmosphere above them.

I see this in my own life. I already lost my closest male friend Paul in 1999, when he died at the age of 52, of lung cancer. Then my best friend Tee died in 2007, age 59, also of cancer.

Meanwhile, there is my mother who just died December 1st, at the age of 90 and her best friend will be attending the funeral, at the age of 91.

Succeeding generations will do even worse than the Baby Boomer generation. Small cell lung cancer is pervasive in the women now age 30 to 45. What causes that in this younger generation, that wasn't going on in the earlier generations? The marketing of Febreeze, Glade candles and air sprays, Lysol air sprays etc are all suspect, to my way of thinking, anyway.

[Paper Roses]

34. It getting to be a big class. I'm a member and know a few others.

Laid off 2 years ago. Company moved South so all of the employees were let go, one by one.
I did collect unemployment benefits but that ran out.

At age 68, I am still able to work but have been so discouraged. All the work I put into looking for a job was futile. Got hardly any replies to my resume. One look and any HR person can tell your approximate age. The can deduce your 'cost' to them by your prior jobs and companies for whom you worked. Yes, I still keep my eye out for something because money is tight. SS does not go far. I keep busy with home projects and some volunteer work but sometimes the days get really long.

I consider myself involuntarily retired, an appropriate title.