I'm sorry--electioneering and asking for billions of dollars to keep your job in this economy makes

[Horse with no Name]

me extremely ill.

I know that some will say that is "just the game"...but people are starving, losing jobs, losing homes, etc and politicians have their grubby mitts out asking for money.

It makes me sick.

[JuniperLea]

1. You must be new to the game...

This has always been a brutal process. Nothing new here.

[dionysus]

2. then don't donate.

[FSogol]

3. The Koch Brothers approve of your position.

:shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

13. You can keep your strawmen to yourself

Seriously.

[emulatorloo]

23. Why is it a "strawmen"? Koch Brothers are going to try to buy the election

that is a fact.

[northernlights]

34. the koch brothers are not "going to try to buy" the election

criminies, they already own it outright. They don't have to "try" anything. As yoda said, "There is no trying. There is only doing.

Well, ok, maybe there will be an auction and they'll be bidding against Larry Blankfenstein and other wall street banksters.

But we're out of it. Oh, he'll take our pennies of course. But what are we against their trillions? nada. :shrug:

[madinmaryland]

44. BALONEY! The Koch brother HAVE bought elections and if they can, they will

continue trying to buy elections.

:wtf:

[stevenleser]

29. That is not a strawman. You may not like what that person wrote, but there is no logical fallacy

therein.

[sabrina 1]

42. What is the point being made?

The Koch brothers are multi-billionaires and will spend billions to get what they want. We know that.

Just how are ordinary working people supposed to outspend these billionaires?

'The Koch brothers will love that you are not donating your $10.00 this time'.

Why would they care? They can easily outspend the 'little people'. Maybe they'll just spend $10.00 less if the OP doesn't donate?

That ought to make them happy, saving ten bucks!

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Billionaires will be donating to Obama also. After all, he has done a lot for them.

I intend to donate to members of Congress as I cannot compete with the billionaires who buy the presidency these days.

So, our little donations are not going to buy us any clout in the WH, as we have seen. We were excluded from most of the important debates over the past several years. However, there is a better chance of having SOME influence with members of Congress. So it's way more practical to spend the limited funds where it can US, the people, the most good.

[bluestate10]

51. Your $10 when coupled with 40 million more americans,

work out to $400 million dollars. The Kochs are rich, but much of their money is pretty illiquid. Coming up with $400 million in a flash hurts even the Kochs. I will give more than $10, a lot more. And I wish that there are 10 million like me out and about ready to give money to stop a rightwing assault of american and what being an american means to me.

[sabrina 1]

55. Well, the Kochs get something for their money. They get to

influence policies.

We discovered after doing exactly what you are wishing for, donating millions to the last Presidential election, that once elected, we were told to 'get lost'. To 'STFU'. We were called names, 'the professional left' our ideas were called 'fucking retarded' And no progressives or liberals were included in the health care debate. Lots of millionaires had a say, and even Republicans got over 200 of their ideas included in the bill, according to the president himself. We didn't even get in the door. That's fine, but don't come asking for us to GOTV this time. I am focusing on Congress now, where I will have more of a say if I get real Progressives elected.

Do you think the Koch Bros would continue to spend money on a party that called their ideas 'retarded' or told them to 'stfu'?

I don't think so. And neither will we. I hope Obama wins, the alternatives are scary, and not pleasant to look at either. But I have little interest anymore in the WH. I believe we the people's power is in Congress and as such that is where we need to focus our efforts. A strong, progressive Congress that actually represents the people, can curb the WH when it is not working for the people. Last time we spent way too much time and money on the Presidential race and many good Progressives did not get the help they needed. That's where I want to focus my limited resources this time.

[stevenleser]

61. As the person to whom you are responding is on my ignore list, I doubt a logical response will work

but I applaud the try.

[sabrina 1]

40. Do you really think that kind of attempted emotional blackmail

has any positive effect on what it is you are trying to effectA?

'You must want Palin to win' etc.? Those kind of childish tactics have done more to harm the Democratic process than you can imagine.

If you have a case to make, leave the talking points out of it. They only alienate intelligent people who assume they are now dealing with the mindset of kindergarten age children. These issues are for grownups, childish talking points are for children.

[bluestate10]

52. George W Bush won in 2000 after progressives voted for Nader.

And Roberts and Alio sit on the Supreme Court. The federal courts are chock full of rightwing judges. President Obama has had to spend valuable time bringing the country out of the huge economic hole that the one George W Bush put it in. No one is trying emotional blackmail on you. The reality is that if you continue on the path that you are taking, you, as a progressive will suffer larger consequences than this moderate. And the consequences that you, modern progressives and progressives not yet born will be profound. Go ahead, waste your vote, sit around being angry and resentful, you hurt yourself the most.

[sabrina 1]

58. The Supreme Court appointed Bush to the presidency.

Why are you letting them off the hook for one of the biggest acts of treason committed against this country in living memory?

Stop with the Nader nonsense. Gore WON the election. The SC took it away and handed it to Bush.

My path now is Congress. The WH has been bought, regardless of which party wins. But a strong, progressive Congress can stop the WH, even if a Repub. wins.

Obama has said over and over again that he can't do anything because of Congress, or he 'doesn't have the votes' etc. etc. So many excuses. Well, I have observed now that what we need is a Congress made up of real Progressives, people like Bernie Sanders, and no matter who is in the WH, we the people WILL be represented IF we spend as much time and effort on Congress as we did on the WH in the last election.

I hope Obama wins, not because I have much faith in him anymore, just that the other side is so much worse. But I want more than the 'lesser of two evils' now, Sick of playing that game, it provides nothing for the people other than a few crumbs every once in a while.

Congress is where the people's hopes lie, and that is where I intend to focus my efforts this time.

[PVnRT]

65. No, Bush was appointed by the supreme court after "moderate" Democrats

voted for Bush to make it close in Florida.

[Lucian]

59. Fail.

[stevenleser]

60. Wrong, WIN!

[KarenS]

4. I whole-heartedly agree with you on this!! n/t

[Liberal Veteran]

5. I don't disagree.

It makes me ill as well. Unfortunately, there is no real groundswell of support to put an end to it and the assholes on the court have stacked the deck.

[onenote]

6. the nerve of FDR running for reelection in 1936. The nerve of him!

[jaxx]

7. It's not just his job he's trying to keep....

it's the workers who still have them too. I'm sure you are aware of what the pubs are doing to promote jobs....nothing.

[iemitsu]

21. obama is doing nothing to save a job

or anyone's ability to make a lining in this country,
he is the one who gave away the bank.

[stevenleser]

30. Tell that to all of the teachers whose jobs he saved with the stimulus that gave money to states

But then again you arent interested in the truth are you? You're just interested in bashing Obama.

[iemitsu]

36. i am a public school teacher.

there has not been any president (including baby bush) who was as hostile to the teaching profession.

[Ikonoklast]

47. You write like that, and are a teacher?

Okay, if you say so.

[jaxx]

35. No, that would be his predecessor George W. Bush.

Barack H. Obama kept the country from going into a depression when the predecessor left the country going belly up.

Ask GM about jobs saved, they'll tell you which President kept them alive.

[Buzz Clik]

8. I have a great idea for you: take the money they want you to donate ...

... and donate it to the starving, the jobless, or the homeless.

Sounds like a winner!

[treestar]

32. And they are going to need it more under a Republican President!

[sabrina 1]

46. I like that idea. Politicians do not need our money

Except maybe those who do not take millions from Corporate America.

Some progressive Dems deserve support because they consistently stand up for the people. Those are the ones I am willing to donate to. And orgs. like the ACLU which does more for the people than a vast majority of DC politicians.

[bluestate10]

54. I am doing all of those actions, AND contribute to President Obama's

re-election fund. The stakes for the causes that I value are to large for me to not aggressively support President Obama's re-election.

[JoePhilly]

9. Its only bad when Obama does it. Fine for all other Presidents.

Why does that always seem to be the case?

[Horse with no Name]

14. I'm not just talking about Obama--did I say just Obama

Or are you making ASSumptions?
Phone calls, letters soliciting money...while they are in Washington figuring out how to give corporations MORE money and me less.

[Solomon]

25. The point he's making is that these things only seemed to get

noticed because Obama is president. I agree with him.

[EFerrari]

10. This is as close to a jobs program as we're going to get. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. It's what passes for "democracy" in this country. Those that have the gold make the rules.

[Tippy]

12. And if a Republican wins we all lose even more then we have already....

We will see people in this country starving, billions will be homeles, many more will die when health care is repealed, and education forget it average people will not be able to educate their kids..... but the since there will be no jobs excpt in the service sector, and how many will they really need since we will all be working for min-wage or less....I could go on and on but I won't

[Beacool]

15. It's sickening that the Obama campaign plans to raise $1B dollars for his reelection.

It would be just as sickening no matter who did it. One billion dollars!!!!! When I think how many programs are being cut that could use some of that money, how many people it could feed, how many it could house, it's just stomach turning. Ditto for all the money that the Republicans are going to raise to try to elect their candidate.

The whole system is so screwed up, how can any decent person who is not wealthy or has the capacity to raise oodles of money run for office?

x(

[emulatorloo]

24. That makes no sense, the money is coming from donors, not the federal budget

Although I agree I would love to see some serious campaign finance reform.

Practically speaking re 2012, the Koch Brothers and their ilk will have no problem dropping Billlions on the Election. Dems have to try to compete with that.

[Horse with no Name]

27. A GREAT deal of it is coming from tax breaks given to the wealthiest

while taking food out of the mouths of the poorest.

[Beacool]

39. I mentioned the Republicans too.

The money wasted by both parties trying to obtain or remain in power is just plain wrong. As long as we have a two party system there will never be substantial campaign finance reform. They each watch each other's back on this issue.

;(

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. Yup. God forbid however, that those donors be expected to pay taxes. n/t

[JoePhilly]

16. The only person holding the President's job is Obama.

And you refer to current issues. And he is the only one that anyone thinks will raise a billion dollars.

And many of those trying to raise money to beat Obama want his job.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

17. I agree

The amount of money that it takes to run an election campaign (at any level) is, in a word, quite obscene and keeps a lot of good, decent, ordinary people from out of public office where they might be able to do some good. I'm not saying all politicians are bad, corrupt, etc. and I recognize that loads of $$$$ is what it takes what it takes to get (re-)elected right now, particularly in the wake of the odious Citizens United ruling, but I'm a firm believer in having public financing of elections. Unfortunately, both sides have to be willing to "disarm" and, unfortunately, I don't see Republicans (or their corporate benefactors) willfully giving up one of their electoral advantages over Democrats. I mean, hell, they're actually trying to eliminate one of the few advantages that we have in the form of union support. The sooner that we can figure out a way to get all these billion dollar elections out of our political/government system the better IMHO.

Just to defend the OP, I don't think that he was talking about Obama but rather about the political system in general. I think that we can all agree it's a "necessary evil" at the moment but one that we should strive to eliminate in the future.

[spanone]

18. you expect the President not to campaign? makes you sick?

you'll be real sick when the republicans win

[bluestate10]

56. I wonder whether some of the DU posters don't secretly want

republicans to win, including the White House. For the life of me, I can't understand why. I don't know what progressives are thinking, I can assume, but I am at an enormous loss to sense any logic in their thinking.

[gimama]

19. agree.. :( ..nt

[Swede]

20. And then he spends it in outer space!

Instead of down here where that money can flow through the economy making jobs.

[midnight]

22. Former Wisconsin Sen. Feingold agrees with you and tried to change the way the game was played...

[emulatorloo]

26. And sadly he lost in 2010, lied about with a bunch of "CitiZens United" decision $$$$

[Hestia]

28. We've been priced out of selecting our president - we'll see competition between corporations &

Wall Street, in who gives the most. May be hard to put that genie back in the bottle. Wouldn't it be great to see a daily total board as to the giving between Obama/Democrats & ?/Republicans?

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. You know if anything, it shows you suck with money because it takes you a billion $ to run a campaig

[Rex]

33. We've gotten to a point where money is more valuable then human life.

We've always 'kind of been there', but now it is part of the systems design. Request a billion dollars to run for office, while telling the poor you got their backs. The system is broken (like the judicial system) and we won't be able to fix it until the amount of money gets stupid - just wait, in 10 years a billion dollars will be chump change to whoever buys the POTUS.

The system is meant to help rich people. Always has and always will. Helping the working poor is NOT part of the plan, just the rich.

More tax breaks for the poor billion dollar companies...they promise to help Obama get elected (or the highest bidder).

Today the promise goes to the one with the most money, has nothing to do with ideology or character anymore.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. Who's being forced to donate?

If you don't want to or can't donate, then don't. Simple.

Meanwhile, the GOP/teabaggers are going to use Citizens United to try to roll back decades of progress -- I think a billion dollars is definitely called for to fight back.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nc4bo]

38. Wonder how many of us are all tapped out due to this shitty economy?

Or unemployment? Or forced back into the work force because some greedy pig gambled with their retirement fund?

Makes me sick too.

[Dappleganger]

41. I refuse to give in to worthless guilt trips.

Not getting played again. The only thing I will support are issues, period.

[davidthegnome]

43. I wonder...

what will all of these wealthy donors expect in return? That's a question we should be asking...

To some extent we know already - most of them already aren't paying any taxes. They whine about America's corporate tax rate being the highest (or is it the second highest? Seems to be some confusion on that issue) in the world, but they don't pay taxes... and now a democratic President will be depending largely on them to keep his job. Well, why not? The rest of us can't afford to fund his campaign. This is what happens when you have the majority of the Nation's wealth so heavily concentrated in the hands of so very few.

When the corporations get into trouble, you can count on the American tax dollar to come to the rescue, even when the Fed is in a serious financial shit-hole.

We need tens of billions of dollars in budget cuts - shared sacrifice for all! Well... except for the majority of the people who will be spending a great deal of money supporting our politicians. Hey, that's the way it works - and if we bitch about it we're just BEGGING for a Palin/Romney/Huckabee/Gingrich? Presidency.

[girl gone mad]

48. k & r

[Angry Dragon]

49. KICK & REC

[bluestate10]

50. I have given to President Obama's campaign and will give more up to my limit.

The stakes are too high for the country for me not to give and help get President Obama re-elected.

[Blue-Jay]

53. It won't cost you anything to donate some time on the phones.

Problem solved! :P

[Lucian]

57. I'm just as sick as you are.

And that's why I'm not donating any of my money to any of those people.

[Puregonzo1188]

62. Yeah I'm rather disturbed by that too.

[BlueIris]

63. It is outrageous, isn't it?

Sadly, my feeling is, he'll get it. From the poor, the uninformed, the gullible and the corporations. But not from me. At least I will be able to say I never donated money to this charade.

[TNLib]

66. Maybe I'm being dense but the MSN is floating this Billion dollar number around

Where are they getting that from?