A Familiy Friend Has Died..... Suicide

[rsmith6621]

A call an hour ago came to inform my wife and I a family friend has died... She had been missing for two days and about 3 am PST this morning they found her body inside a car off the main road about 1/4 mile down a forest service road. She was found with two different types of pain killers both bottles empty laying on the floor and a empty bottled of water....suicide is the initial finding..


Apparently she was distressed about the news her son gave her a month ago that he was GAY,he was 25 YO. She had shared with my wife and several others that she had a meeting with her Pastor who told her a biblical FIB that if she did not quickly get him to convert back to STRAIGHT that her salvation would be put into JEOPARDY and her standing in the church would be diminished, all a big BIBLICAL LIE on the behalf of a person who call themselves a servant of God...apparently he said it was her duty to convert him back which we know is not seriously possible...

Last week she said she was at the end of her rope and did not know which way to turn.... My wife and I used biblical TRUTH to show her that her Pastor was wrong and encouraged her to leave the church NOW that the Pastor was a fraud and extreme.... she was last seen at church on Sunday morning and was said to be frantic in how to deal with her sons news.....

As a former assistant Pastor I have offered to the family my time to see this Pastor is investigated by the local and national board of directors of the denomination...it is one of those Baptist churches.. I think the local church being autonomous can be sued.... I will let you know how this proceeded...


....EFFFFFFNNNNN LIAR.

[Liberal_in_LA]

1. Really sad!!!

[HereSince1628]

2. My condolences on the loss of your friend. n/t

[w8liftinglady]

3. all I can so is send a hug.

http://www.unity.org/prayer/prayersAffirmations/iAmTherePoem.html

[axollot]

4. So very sorry. Hope they stop him from ruining more

lives. My son is bisexual (17 now) but I knew when he was 3! This is so wrong on so many levels.

:hug:

Cheers
Sandy

[closeupready]

9. "wrong on so many levels" - yes, very much so.

Very much so.

[redwitch]

5. That is so sad. I am very sorry.

A young friend of mine is wrestling with telling his mom that he is gay. She too is very religious. She is also ill with cancer. I told him maybe he should hold off for a bit and not stress him or her right now. He is so afraid to tell her, it breaks my heart. I have sons that I love dearly and I would have no problem with them being gay, my love is unconditional as every parent's should be. What a nightmare for the poor young man whose mom took her life because of the immoral treatment of her pastor!

[handmade34]

6. sorry for your loss

and her son's loss...

I have seen the damage done (was raised by a fundamentalist mother)


this morning current.com posted "7 reason's why religion is a sign of mental illness"

academic studies show that mentally ill people more often follow strict religious teachings...

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to examine the prevalence of religious coping among persons with persistent mental illness and to gain a preliminary understanding of the relationship between religious coping and symptom severity and overall functioning.

CONCLUSIONS: The results of the study suggest that religious activities and beliefs may be particularly compelling for persons who are experiencing more severe symptoms, and increased religious activity may be associated with reduced symptoms. Religion may serve as a pervasive and potentially effective method of coping for persons with mental illness, thus warranting its integration into psychiatric and psychological practice.

http://www.ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/5/660

[closeupready]

7. What can one say.

It's sad, but now her son will have to live with this huge guilt trip for the rest of his life. Is that fair to him?

Condolences and warm feelings to you and her loved ones, despite that. :hug:

[Lost-in-FL]

8. How criminally ignorant religious nuts can be. nt

[Warpy]

10. More of these guys should be sued for pastorial misconduct

When their bullshit kills people, they should really be jailed, but it's a slippery proposition and comes a little too close to prosecuting them for heresy.

Civil courts aren't as strict as criminal courts, though, and a civil suit might give this guy a wakeup call and reality check.

Shoot, he might be stressed out over it himself and finally go looking for the man of his own dreams.

[Angry Dragon]

11. I am sorry for your loss

[Sal Minella]

12. My favorite Biblical quote comes from Jesus.

This is what Jesus had to say about gay people: " . . . "

[Fire1]

13. It's professed pastors like this who give christianity a bad name.

n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. It's a cultish mentality, the whole "religious"anti-gay thing.

Doesn't matter if they're large cults or small cults; they're *cults*.

They're *lethal* and the whole fucking thing is *tragic*.

[Tveil]

19. The worst part is

Her so called "salvation" is still in jeopardy for committing suicide according to the church. The Pastor is a jerk either way.

[Brickbat]

15. I'm so sorry.

So sad that the faith she found a comfort suddenly turned on her. What a terrible thing to do to her son.

[Life Long Liberal]

16. Such a sad deal. I feel so bad for her family.

[Deep13]

17. Very sorry to hear it. nt

[reggie the dog]

18. fucking horrible

the power some people give to pastors and religion is simply beyond me.

[firehorse]

20. when people no longer feel they have choices....

I can't but help think the pressure from her religious community was the straw that broke the camel's back, and that maybe there were a bunch of other things contributing to feeling like there's less and less choices and no way out.

So sad.

[former9thward]

21. It is certainly a tragedy but sued for what?

Giving a personal belief is not any legal grounds for a suit no matter what the consequences. I would urge you before giving any money to a lawyer, have him show you cases where this type of action has been successful. You will save a lot of money when he comes up with none.

[prolesunited]

22. In some religions, they also preach that

suicide also is an unforgivable sin because you've committed murder, even if it is your own.

[JuniperLea]

23. Suicide is so cruel... on every level, to all concerned...

And that it came on the heels of lies spewed by a self-righteous LIAR who uses the Lord's name in vain, is all the more horrid.

Good luck to you in your quest. I hope you can use your friend's death in a positive way. This man needs to be made an example and his cruelty should not go unpunished.

[pip]

24. I'm so sorry... n/t

[riderinthestorm]

25. The son!! My initial horror focused immediately on the son!

I am very, very sorry about your friend but she chose the most wretched action she could take to inflict even more pain on her son. I'm trying to visualize the terrible conversation she must have had with him trying to "convert" him back to "straight". And then she does this to him on top of that???

The one who needs help right now I'm thinking is the son! Please tell me someone has found him and is with him right now - he must be in such bad shape.....

[prolesunited]

26. Your comments are so off base

You really should do some research on suicide before commenting on the subject. Your remarks are very ill informed.

Agreed that her son will be traumatized, but she didn't kill herself to turn him straight or punish him.

[Little Star]

30. You can not actually be saying that the son will not put all...

the guilt on himself. Tell me you at least understand that much. The poor woman who killed herself because of some nut bag religious pastor's words and promises is gone now. She will suffer no longer.

This will be with the son the rest of his life and he will blame himself. He'll be a lot more than just traumatized. We'll be lucky if he does not try to take his own life because of her actions!

His life is hard enough being gay in this fucked up fundie world. That mother committed the most selfish act anyone ever could.

[NotThisTime]

61. +1000

[Pacifist Patriot]

67. I think you must have misunderstood.

Your post doesn't make much sense as a response.

[PatSeg]

41. That was my initial reaction as well

The guilt must be devastating and probably will stay with him for a long, long time.

[Raksha]

50. That's the really horrible thing. No matter how many times he tells himself

it wasn't his fault and if anyone it was the pastor who killed her, he is still going to have overwhelming guilt feelings.

Re "The guilt must be devastating and probably will stay with him for a long, long time."

Even if he knows those feelings are irrational, it isn't going change them. That pastor managed to destroy at least two lives with his hateful words--maybe more.

[PatSeg]

57. Emotions aren't rational

and I'm sure he has wrestled with a lot of guilt for many years already while coming to terms with his sexuality. Obviously it probably wasn't accepted in his household. That pastor has done something that can't be undone. We may never know how many lives he has affected just from this incident alone.

[onpatrol98]

58. so sad and so true

[Brickbat]

45. I said that too, upthread.

[ThomCat]

27. Her poor son!

:cry:

Even though that pastor is 1100% responsible for this, her son is going to carry this for the rest of his life, knowing this his mother committed suicide because her love for him wasn't enough to deal with him being gay.

That's a horrible thing to have to live with.

I hope you, and others, are with him making sure he's okay. :(

[BlueIris]

28. How awful. Why do people try to use religion to create these fears?

Just a terribly painful (and preventable) tragedy all around.

[Mnemosyne]

29. I am so sorry. n/t

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. Religion takes another life. You went above and beyond. My condolences.

[mike_c]

32. I'm very sorry for the pain your loss is causing you...

...but I cannot help wondering how someone could be so fucked up in head-- I don't know any better way to put it-- how anyone could be so utterly mind-fucked that they would kill themselves in response to not liking someone else's sexuality. Was she so deeply shamed by her son's choices for love? How on Earth could those choices possibly be so bad for her that death was a better alternative? I presume there must be more to the story.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm awfully sorry for the pain you and everyone else involved must be feeling-- it just seems utterly unnecessary and incomprehensible. We go through life in the midst of a mosaic of diversity, whether we are aware of it or not. In this case it sounds like simply becoming aware of what was already a part of her life made her choose a terribly inappropriate response. I just don't understand.

[bluestate10]

33. Wow. Stand by the son and make sure that he does not blame himself

for his mother's death. What a sad confirmation of how an evil person hiding behind religion can destroy lives.

[Arugula Latte]

34. Religion kills another one.

[Ian David]

35. Right-wingers (especially right-wing religionists) killl gay people AND their families.

Joseph Garuti had a "pro-family" bumper sticker on his car when he used it to run-over and kill his ex-wife.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x36968

This guy killed his ex-wife because she wanted to take their child to a gay-affirming church, and he hooked-up with a crazy-ass "Fathers' Rights" attorney named Grossack who apparently egged him on to fight well past what a decent human being would have encouraged, until someone ended-up dead.

[MadMaddie]

36. That Pastor has blood on his hands...

[teachthemwell15]

43. These blaspheming bastards never stop, do they.

You couldn't be more correct. And I hope that whenever this 'pastor' looks in the mirror every day, he begins to realize the harm he has visited not only on this family but on thousands who have encountered this vile behavior on his part.

[Maraya1969]

37. I just sent this to my Presbeterian minister brother who believes in the

ex-gay thing. I told him I hoped that one day he could open his heart and tell these people that they are what God wants them to be.

I am so sorry for your loss. I am so sorry for the whole tragic situation.

[barbtries]

38. oh no

this is so, so sad. i am so sorry. what kind of horrible so called christian would counsel such a thing? but there must be more? wouldn't suicide put her salvation in even greater jeopardy? i don't know, i don't do religion. i am just so very sorry.

[Pacifist Patriot]

39. I am saddened and appalled.

The pastor is irresponsible and in my humble opinion, liable. I hope this is an epiphany for him, but sadly, I have my doubts. You have my condolences. I wish there was something I could do for her son.

[helderheid]

40. I feel as you do. I'm shaking my head.

[xchrom]

42. i share your opinion of that pastor.

very sorry for your difficulty.

it's hard to lose a friend in this manner.

[phrigndumass]

44. Autonomous churches can be sued, but they are insured to the hilt.

Unless the family members go for punitive damages in excess of $5 million (if the pastor were found to be guilty of negligent manslaughter), the church would be covered by their insurance umbrella liability protection plan.

My heart goes out to the family, and especially the gay son. I know what it's like to come out to a family member who is involved in fundamentalism. I hope the family can sue and win, big league.

.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. How tragic for everyone concerned...

...except the minister, of course, who, if he had had real seminary training (as opposed to being one of the self-ordained fundamentalist or graduates of a "Bible college"?), would know that Jesus never said a word about homosexuality.

Baptist churches tend to be pretty autonomous, so there's probably no hierarchy that can censure him, but most extreme homophobes are in the closet with their skeletons, so a little private detective work might reveal things that the minister would rather have hidden--which might come in handy in a civil suit.

[southernyankeebelle]

47. This pastor should be prosecuted. The SOB

[Dappleganger]

48. That "pastor" should be sued in civil court by the son.

The mother would probably be alive today if not for his negligent "advice."

I am so sorry this happened. Suicide is a terrible thing for any family to go through.

:hug:

[callous taoboy]

49. Religion: The silent killer. Sorry for your loss.

[democrank]

51. So very sad.

Sorry for your loss.

[Whisp]

52. so sorry, rsmith...

it always astounds me how people can caught up so harshly in religious fantasy and how the ugly people out there use this as a pummel against so many.

[femrap]

53. These damn hypocritical

religious A-holes. And her poor son....He must sue this 'pastor.'

[TayTay]

54. I am so sorry for your loss

and so sorry that it came at the hands of someone who mistook personal belief for ministry.

[Scottybeamer70]

55. What a sick society we live in.......

and this is one of the very reasons I never told my family about my
personal life. My dad would have killed me, and I'm not sure what
my mom might have done. But 60 plus years ago, I'm afraid it would
not have been much different........especially growing up in a little
baptist church. My heartfelt love goes out to that young man. If
there is anything I could do to help him, please PM me. What a sad
situation involving such an innocent young man. When will we ever
become civilized?

[crim son]

56. I am sorry for your loss and am grieved to think what that son will

now have to live with.

[Libby2]

59. My condolences, I'm so sorry.

[NotThisTime]

60. Can you just imagine how the son must feel? I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, but I would be

very very VERY seriously concerned about her son... you don't want two tragedies... I'm so sorry...

[yardwork]

62. So many lives destroyed. When will it end? Her son is now facing an incredible loss.

Not only has her son lost his mother, he's going to be carrying this around for the rest of his life, through absolutely no fault of his own. HE did the right thing by telling his mother and living his life openly. Other people - evil people - killed his mother as surely as if they shot her through the heart.

How can people be so evil.

[Lucian]

63. Organized religion is a virus that needs to be eradicated.

My condolences to you and your family friend's family.

[mwooldri]

64. Civil words can not express my thoughts adequately.

And I try to keep my language clean.

All I can say with all civility is this:

1) *hugs* to all of your family friends' family - especially her son - and my condolences to you too.

2) There are no "winners" here at all. There has been a whole big huge multiple loss here.

3) I can't judge anyone in terms of sin or no sin, that's God's job. However this pastor should be nowhere near your family friends funeral, and I pray that Jesus does come to him and shows him what real salvation is all about.

4) I hope her son gets some real grief loss therapy and that it is stressed to him that his coming out is NOT the cause of his mothers' passing.

Without knowing anything about this situation specifically - generally with people who do a suicide or just even an attempt it is not just one thing that does it, it is a whole pile of this that and the other that an individual feels that they just cannot face and their flawed conclusion that suicide is an easy way out is the way they go. This I know, as I went through an extremely suicidal phase of my life and contemplated it, planned it but thankfully I never went through with it and sought help.

Again hugs and condolences to all affected.

Mark.

[TrogL]

65. I've been upset about this all day

I'm currently reading "Is the homosexual my neighbour" revised edition An excellent resource.

We're having problems within my own church, which is mainstream liberal. One of the parishioners (who recently parachuted in from an adjoining parish) is causing problems.

This is exactly the kind of thing I've been fighting for years (see website below, sadly out of date) and just when I think I'm making some sort of headway, something like this happens.

My sympathies to the family.

[Maru Kitteh]

66. My sincere condolences. You did the right thing and you did try.

You did your best. Good luck to you in your endeavor to attain some measure of justice for your friend AND her son.

I haven't read the thread yet. I hope her son is getting help dealing with this. Poor young man. I can't imagine.

:grouphug: