Ok I am confused

[nadinbrzezinski]

Mr. Vick served his time for crimes. He paid his debt to society. Now he is going to go back to work, making a living... hence reducing the risk of recidivism. Shouldn't this be the model of the penal system?

:scratches head: Yes I know how horrible dog fighting are... and ditto for cock fighting... practices that were very common not too long ago, and are still common in some areas of the world.

But I am still very confused.

I really DO NOT get the controversy here. Person served his time... person is now gainfully employed. I wish this was the case with all who were released from prison. Instead we treat them like garbage and then are shocked when they commit another offense... why? NOBODY will hire a convicted man, that is why. Doubly so if that convicted man happens to be black or hispanic. Yes, it is called a vicious circle.

Oh and for the record I don't get this controversy at all... and yes I have pets before you say it.

[ZombieHorde]

1. Whether we like it or not, sports figures are role models and heroes.

If Vick got a job washing dishes, very few would be upset.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. From the tone of this faux controversy

more than a few would be upset if he got ANY JOB.

As to sports figures being heroes, it speaks badly about the culture when they, and 15 year old snotty kids in Hollywood are role models, instead of people like I don't know Jonas Salk.

Still my OP is about the reality of it. He is the rare convicted man who is working... chew on that and no I don't get this controversy at all.

[blondeatlast]

12. Not true. Try to understand that many, many of us are less concerned with

the fact that he has a job--I'm happy any ex-con* can find honest work.

What upsets me, and a great many others, is that Vick isn't content that he's once again a star athlete. What has so many upset is that he doesn't seem to be satisfied with that and we're calling bullshit on his relentless PR pandering to win endorsements.

He HAS to work with the Humane Society. He doesn't have to PUBLICLY proclaim how horrible it is that he can't have a dog--that's pure show biz, and I call bullshit on it.

Sis, I've spent time at a cockfight--about 10 seconds before I went screaming home in tears. I'm all for rehabilitation of ex-cons--I'm not for allowing them a free pass to endorsements and I'm damn glad that Vick's too damn toxic for even Madison Avenue.

*BTW--he wasn't sent to prison for anumal cruelty--his time was done for racketeering. I still don't think he's come anywhere close to paying his debt to society.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. You are upset that he is doing what EVERY ATHLETE

since Michael Jordan has done? Endorsements are part of the game.

Jesus!

Oh and yes cock fights are horrible too... what about boxing? Been to a boxing match?

Some of these sports, if you want to call them that way, are primal... but you want to really cry? Go to an industrial egg laying facility... or an industrial cow or pig raising facility... that is cruelty, in ways that most people, far removed from their food, can't even comprehend.

So perhaps we should start having a serious conversation on how we treat animals.

That said. VIC DID HIS TIME...

[blondeatlast]

17. No, actually, I'm delighted that big money endorsements aren't coming his way.

He so desperately wants them--and here's the diff between Jordan (oh, yeah, he had a gambling thing) and Vick (who used helpless animals as bait, beat, starved, whipped, and electrocuted his dogs to make them vicious fighting machines).

Jordan's was a victimless crime. Maybe you'd like to find out how dogfighting rings get their "bait." Hint--watch your furry little friends...

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. I worked side by side with law enforcement for years

And yes he wants endorsements and you know what HE WILL GET THEM too.

If you are so upset about it, which obviously you are, try to stop that.

And I did not mean Jordan's Gambling, even if that is NOT a victimless crime either... I mean it as the MODERN PRACTICE of getting endorsements goes back to Jordan and NIKE.

[blondeatlast]

21. Jeez, NB--I like you. But geez--it goes way, way, way way back farther than

Jordan.

Ever hear of Wheaties? Ben Hogan?

Take a breath--we need you here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Yeah but any historian of the practice will tell you

that it was JORDAN who propelled it to it's modern, and very profitable form with the Air Jordan and Nke.

[ZombieHorde]

27. Take three deep breathes and count to ten. nt

[Foo Fighter]

67. I take it from your post that you're a vegan? n/t

[ZombieHorde]

22. Faux controversy? I don't think you know the meaning of the word, "controversy."

Sports figures have been role models longer than our current culture's existence.

He is the rare convicted man who is working

Rich and famous people who are convicted of crimes usually have little trouble finding work.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Yes faux controversy.

[ZombieHorde]

31. This thread proves the controversy is real.

con·tro·ver·sy
   
–noun, plural -sies.

1. a prolonged public dispute, debate, or contention; disputation concerning a matter of opinion.

2. contention, strife, or argument.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/controversy?qsrc=4059

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. In some minds, you are correct

given what is going on in the world... this is faux...

faux    Show IPA
–adjective
artificial or imitation; fake: a brooch with faux pearls.
Use faux in a Sentence
Origin:
1670–80; < F; OF fals < L falsus false

There are things in the world that matter a little more than a football player who served time who came back to play...

Oh like the 20% real unemployment numbers, or if you want to stay in the subject of sports... how many kids enter programs at colleges with the promise of a future career in the NFL, and are told by coaches that their game matters more than their academics.

[ZombieHorde]

44. Why do you think people are faking being upset? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. In my experience people get upset over things that really

do not matter... but do not get upset over things that do matter. This is a means of social control.

Now as I asked bellow... this gentleman killed a man... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3982263, he is back at play... nobody said a thing. Why is that? Why is it that nobody was upset?

Is it because dogs were involved? Think about that one.

And if you really want to pick a cause where you can make a difference... college sports is a worthy one. And I do not mean ra-ra-ra for a team.

[ZombieHorde]

53. Your link won't work for me. I would not call what I am seeing on DU a cause, I see it as

complaining. Complaining is easy and doesn't require the energy a cause requires. Some DUers work with rescued animals, and for them this is a cause; a worthy cause in my opinion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Worthy yes, but so is making sure

the criminal system works.

MIAMI -- Mario Reyes was a family man, a loving husband and father. He came to South Florida from Cuba as a teenager and became an overnight crane operator in Miami.

Still, his family said he couldn't afford a car and was forced to take the bus to work. Saturday, police said he was killed when a Bentley driven by Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte Stallworth collided with him on a causeway linking Miami and Miami Beach.

Reyes was headed to the bus stop.

"He spent all his free time with his family," Reyes' brother-in-law, Francisco Fajardo, told The Associated Press on Sunday. "He was on his way home."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3982263

[Still Blue in PDX]

58. Exactly. He is the rare working ex-con because he can throw a football.

Why don't all ex-cons get the opportunities he has? Or all ex-IT support people or all ex-medical transcriptionists or all ex-textile workers or pretty much any worker-bee job classification one can name that has been outsourced or downsized?

I'm not a nut who values animals more than people, but seeing him and his success when so many people are homeless and hungry just makes my blood boil. Of course not only the animal rights issue enters into it, it is also the ridiculous (non)distribution of wealth that glorifies sports figures and dumbass entertainers that gets my goat. Guess I'm a *gasp* socialist. Guess I'm also in agreement with you.
:mad:

[xchrom]

2. Oh well. I doubt Vick cares one way or the other

What anybody thinks.

He's sorry he got caught - that's the extent he thinks
Or feels about it.

[AndrewP]

4. It's probably the ass kissing of a dog killer that has some people upset

go figure

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well, people should be upset about things that actually matter

like the fact that we have an almost 20% real unemployment rate... that affects them for real. This really doesn't. And this should be the model. Do your time, get out, get a job...

As to sports "heroes" being treated as such... well that is a problem, as well as 15 year old snotty kids. Nope, never got it... in reality these are grown men being paid millions to play a kid's game.

[TBF]

51. I completely agree - let's see if we can get Obama to pay attention to our homeless, our unemployed,

and our public schools. Instead he focuses his attention on chatting up a NFL owner. Talk about skewed priorities.

[Foo Fighter]

69. Well obviously the homeless and unemployed need to get off their butts and

get themselves a job as a QB. OK, so maybe not all of them are athleticly inclined. If that's the case, they should just become high-rollers in Wall Street firms and/or Banksters.

The fact that the haven't done so shows that they have absolutely NO motivation. Why the heck should Obama throw his praise at people like that when he has well-deserving, highly-paid dog torturers that are obviously far more worthy.

If Obama thinks Vick is such a great guy, he should walk the walk and just give him Bo.

(Not that I would wish that fate on Bo or ANY dog for that matter.)

[Still Blue in PDX]

59. Yes. nt

[T Wolf]

5. As one who can not forgive Vick for his crimes and thinks he should not be making millions

in the NFL (but then, I do not think anyone should make that much, especially for playing a game), I see the problem is that it can be interpreted as Obama again playing to the rich.

Instead of publicizing some petty criminal who rehabbed themselves, he goes to the rich ballplayer as an example of one who "overcame hardships" to correct his path. OK. But couldn't Obama have picked a more common case?

Thus, he gives ammo to those who think that (a) being rich gives you a pass, (b) Obama's focus is (to be kind) misdirected, (c) it is just plain stupid from any political perspective, and (d) like it or not - gives the pukes another chance to cry "reverse-racism" ala NBPP and the election brouhaha.

Thus, aside from a generic rehabilitation-supporting statement, this was a loser move all around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. You know I don't take every statement made by POTUS

to be more than just a statement about the rich. Perhaps my views are colored by having shared some beans and tortillas with a former POTUS. THey are human... and yes at times they talk "out of order" as it were. But it really is not telling you a thing about that, except that the man likes sports. We knew that already.

As to you forgiving vic or not... whatever. There are worst crimes than dog fighting... and those criminals are not in jail.

[CatWoman]

6. welcome to my world

these people are fucking nuts.

[apocalypsehow]

36. Yup. n/t.

[Bonhomme Richard]

9. It's a money thing.

How many immigrants (not to pick on immigrants alone) get arrested for animal fighting and are back at their regular job with or without an actual jail time. Very few pay any attention at all to it. If anything he stands at a stark reminder that dog fighting is cruel and very illegal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yes in the US it is cruel and highly ilegal

But did he serve his time? THis is nuts.

[Hannah Bell]

11. there's a faction for life-long punishment for many crimes, witness sex offenders.

i don't understand it either.

if it's that heinous, keep them in jail.

but once they've served their time, they should be done & allowed to rebuild their lives, imo.

[TexasObserver]

13. recommend

[jobycom]

15. Did you miss the part where he's black?

Check out prison statistics, parole statistics, conviction statistics, and on and on. Black people are not forgiven in this culture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Why I mentioned the color of his skin in the OP

Exactly.

[jobycom]

18. I caught that.

:thumbsup:

[JVS]

20. Being an NFL football player has been a dream of huge parts of the American population.

Every player on that field has dreamt about it and many people in the general public have too. For most of them, that was never to be, and they've had to settle for other more modest dreams. Even then this is a world that tends to take dreams and crush them. Even with these more modest dreams many out there have made small mistakes that have cost them their dreams, or have been innocent but had their dreams crushed nonetheless because of the greed of others, or circumstance, or pure misfortune. Vick nearly lost his dream by doing something heinous, but due to the interests of some powerful people they gave it back to him. And I can understand the resentment that many feel at his dream being restored through the accommodation of so many powerful entities, while those who have transgressed far less find no quarter and do not have others restore their dreams.

[tekisui]

23. It is the double standard of classism combined with the vileness

of his crimes that make this such a contentious subject.

[JVS]

30. And it's not even like Vick is part of the whole class issue, but his employers are.

You've got people out there who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and can't find a new job, but they see that Vick gets his whole career restored because Andy Reid needs a good QB.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Well he has a gift

and the owners need a player and cannot afford the real expensive (read non convicted) talent.

So that is part of it.

[JVS]

35. A lot of people out there have gifts but don't get another chance.

Vick is getting way better than he deserves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Well we will not agree

I'd rather have him GAINFULLY EMPLOYED than not.

And truth be told, some folks would be angry if he got ANY job.

[JVS]

39. There is a lot of wiggle room between gainfully employed and having a dream job.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. So in your world this gentleman should not have gone back to play either

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3982263

or is this because dogs were involved?

I am dead serious.

If you don't like it boycott the team.

Lord knows I don't give a shit about my local TEAMS...

[JVS]

73. I'll have to think about this and find out whether he was drunk or not.

If he accidentally killed someone while being reckless enough to be drunk driving, there is culpability.

If he accidentally killed someone while taking proper precautions, then it doesn't seem as bad.

In either case, what Vick did seems to show a much more sinister, in that

This is not about dogs being involved. In fact, I am really not that fond of dogs and don't mind them being eaten. My posting history confirms this.

I have other fish to fry at the moment. I'll get back eventually, but ending up somewhere lower on the sport's hierarchy than being a franchise QB is gainful employment. He could probably live quite well if not hired at all, running a training camp for promising HS athletes. Parents would pay for someone with his skill and experience to advise their kids.

[coalition_unwilling]

70. NB, we agree far more often than we disagree. But I have to

take issue with your "gainfully employed" tag in reference to Vick. He's a stupid jock. I do not consider jock-strapping of any sort 'gainful employment' - I consider jock-strapping a sign of our society's pathologically fucked-up condition.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Yes, salaries are insane

but he is gainfully employed. What would people rather he do? Wash dishes? Would that be proper?

That said yes jocks and movie stars make way too much money, but that is another rant. Nor should they be popular heroes, again 'nother rant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Oh trust me I get that

I worked with FOOTBALL players at a college program while in graduate school.

And that part of the system is a scam. Every one of those kids will make it to the NFL and make millions... just ask them. Then ask them who was Napoleon Bonaparte (I did the Western Civ Tutoring with them) and they will look at you like why does that matter? And the coaches encourage that, in fact many a coach looks for a softie of an instructor that will give the kids the grades they need to keep playing regardless of the work they do. No, not limited to one school. Why we have the regular scandals regarding schools and football programs.

Now I am NOT a sports fan. I find sports mostly stupid, though I enjoy the world cup, I admit. And the salaries are insane, in my mind. Hell, the owners have ruined the leagues for most people... take the family to the ball part average cost 200 buckaroos... are thy nuts? Another rant.

But in this case it SHOULD be lauded, rightly so, as a model of how "the system" should work... not necessarily the game.

Nah very deep down I think some people are pissed for reasons beyond the crime... and I will leave it at that. And it might not even be very conscious either. But it is still in the water as it were.

[WinkyDink]

24. IN the GENERAL terms which you used, YES, most definitely. But the OTHER POINT = Why him and not Joe

Ordinary Parolee? Why did Obama pick a VERY RICH and FAMOUS example of a man who did not need to struggle to find post-incarceration employment?
Who is next---Lindsey Lohan?

Adding this to his comments on Steven Jobs, and Obama looks like a person dazzled by the famou$$, not like a President of the United States.

[one_voice]

25. Hehehehe...

you said cock fighting. :-)

I think Michael Vick is a piece of shit, that being said he has served his time--whether we agree it was enough is irrelevant--that's how our justice system works. I know some Eagles fans (lifelong) that have a very hard time reconciling this. Michael Vick isn't the only one who has f'd up and ended back on top. Check out Donte Stallworth http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3982263 & http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5048624 and he's still playing. I don't recall threads of outrage over this, and he killed another person. He spent 24 days in jail.

I have a friend that served time on weapon and drug charges. He's a convicted felon. When he was released from prison, he looked and looked for a job to no avail. Finally someone decided to give him a second chance. He now owns a very profitable concrete business and has in turn given others a second chance. Now, I understand his crime was not a "violent" one, but still he needed a second chance. Sometimes people do good things with second chances.

I know a few other people that have been in trouble, some with good outcomes, others not so much.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Dogs are more important than people I guess

thanks... see how much attention I pay to this that I did not even know that story.

[COLGATE4]

63. Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner! You just hit the nail on the

head. All the rest is window dressing for that basic argument. That's why so much passion and vituperation. Dogs are more important than people.

[sofa king]

57. Just imagine if this was the 1960s, '70s or '80s.

Like when a roided-out Lyle Alzado ripped a helmet off of another player and threw it.

Or what about Jack "The Assassin" Tatum, who finally got credit for killing Patriots wide receiver http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryl_Stingley">Darryl Stingley because after decades of quadriplegia, he finally died from complications resulting from the injuries given to him by Tatum on the field? (Tatum never apologized, saying it was a clean hit that could have happened to anyone, and died himself this year.)

Or when Mike "The Animal" Curtis leveled a drunken fan?

Or Jim Brown, allegedly throwing his fiancee off of a balcony?


Oh, wait. All those are human-on-human crimes, which apparently do not provoke the same reaction here.

Edit: And what's the deal with Mel Blount? There are people out there who claim that Blount somehow killed two NFL players in games and managed to get both of them swept under the rug. The NFL now vehemently denies it ever happened... except in their own NFL Films shows, which actually mention it.

[rucky]

26. K&R

Recidivism is what this is really about, and what a second chance represents to the 1/3 black males who have been incarcerated. We can't say we fight for them to rise out of the cycle of poverty and incarceration if we're not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when they get out. The lack of faith in the penal system then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as far as its ineffective rehabilitation rates are concerned. Our penal system is as good as we allow it to be, and recidivism is the key measure of its effectiveness. But we can't ignore the role society plays in its success or failure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Exactly

a few years back one local starbucks FINALLY gave a chance to a young kid who did five for armed robbery. He was the BEST employee ever. It became a nooz story because he was so good the company paid for his college and made him a regional manager. For each story like that...

[ismnotwasm]

41. Actually, depending on the state

There are, (or I should say there used to be, I bet they've been cut out of many a budget) programs for felons to get work out of prisons. I know one, a(2nd degree) murderer, who had a job from the gate painting lines on roads. Made decent money too. He was Native American.

I tend to agree with you though. Vick is probably still a puke, but perhaps he's learned his lesson and also has learned what cruelty to animals is. However, a famous football player lives in a glass house in a way, and his was shattered. He had to expect some of this.

What pisses me off, is if he had date-raped some woman instead of abusing dogs, he'd get far more support.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Or killed a person

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3982263

[ismnotwasm]

49. Exactly n/t

[CC]

64. Like that other

PA quarterback? He hasn't even paid for his crimes but has been accused enough time in enough states to make me believe he is a serial rapist. Maybe he will be tried and convicted when he kills one.

[Javaman]

45. It works like this...

If you are an average slob, serve your time for whatever crime you committed, everyone here on DU believes a person should get a second chance.

However, if said crime that was committed by said person is something that involves: animals, children, old people, nuns, peace activists, or sport mascot; then the person goes up on the hate scale.

Then if that same person happens to be a celebrity, sports star or member of the opposite political party, then, once again, the hate scale goes up that much more. (however, if it is one of our politicians, then the "sane" minds here on DU claim, that said politician should have "known better" and is a detriment to the party - virtually no hate. Just tsk tsking at the persons stupidity).

So because Vick hurt animals (dogs), is a famous sports star, and as an added bonus, at the time of his crime of "questionable morals", regardless of his time served, therapy received and community service, he is still reviled.

While at the same time, someone who commits armed robbery, wounds but does not kill someone, serves 20 years, is looked at as someone "who should get another chance".

It's all about the idol worship, either directly or indirectly, and group thought.

Just for the record, while I believe what Vick did was horrible, he got counseling, served his time and went on record as understanding what he did was horrible. And for me, he has paid his dues. While I am a sports fan, I hold no one above the law and I also forgive those who have served their time and give them a second chance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. +1000

Yep, you summed it very well.

[jobycom]

74. Good summary. nt

[geardaddy]

47. Recommend.

[TBF]

50. It is not that Vick is gainfully employed again - it is that our president chooses to focus

his attention on republicans and folks like Vick. I think your last sentence is spot on - you don't understand this at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. He thanked the owner of a team

for giving a convicted man a second chance.

No I don't get it... after all THAT should and could be used as an example to create MORE job opportunities for people leaving prisons, hence reducing recidivism.

I take it you have a problem with that.

[lunatica]

52. I don't believe for a second that you're ever confused about anything.

The way I see it the controversy this time seems to center around the misperception that Obama was praising Vick which never happened.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I know

but the whole thing about a con man getting a job (which should be praised and ahem encouraged as a wider practice) is what is confusing to me. I guess given that dogs were involved...

[Mike 03]

60. For me it has to do with the visceral response to dog fighting.

I don't expect anyone to understand this, but I volunteered for a few years at an animal shelter that had a "row" specifically for fight dogs, and it was, to put it mildly, a very emotional experience.

For me personally, anybody who would kill dogs or watch dogs kill each other for pleasure or money is a psychopath, plain and simple, with no redeeming value whatsoever.

Nadin, I respect the hell out of you, but that is just how I see it. Dogs are amazing, feeling, emotional beings, and after years of studying and writing about psychopaths I cannot honestly believe that anyone who could treat animals this way can never be redeemed.

I admit I am biased, having worked with these damaged, sweet, amazing animals.

[jobycom]

61. I don't buy that. Roethlisberger doesn't get this same reaction

and I know people have a visceral reaction to rape.

[blondeatlast]

62. I wish we would talk about Roethlisburger, too. In fact, DU needs a good discussion about the

vicious and violent behind the scene undercurrent in college and pro sports. Anyone who denies it exists is deluded or simply not paying attention--and like it or not, our kids look up to these people.

[CakeGrrl]

65. I own a shelter dog and agree with the OP. But I have a thought:

I think people are galled that Vick is allowed to succeed in any way, shape or form.

To some, he doesn't deserve to have any enjoyment of anything ever again, damn whatever lessons he may actually be learning, because some think "once a sick criminal, always a sick criminal".

Some look forward to seeing him injured in his football games. How very Progressive.

I'm seeing a lot of thoughts expressed that used to be attributed to the Conservative/Freeper mindset.

But me? Good on Vick that he's moved forward to be productive rather than, as you say, a recidivist statistic. I don't incur a taxpayer burden to keep him locked away.

And if people would stop and think for two seconds, maybe a highly public example can send the message even farther.

[TexasObserver]

66. Agree with everything you said.

As you state, he's in a position to send an important message about not abusing animals. I hope he uses it well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. That is why I think POTUS congratulated the Eagles owner

yes, he could congratulate the owner of Safeway in Cleveland OH... but who'd pay attention.

I know a few people really want to keep punishing this guy for the rest of his natural life... and if he should commit another crime... sure...

But reality is that this could be used as an example for OTHER less high profile cons to get jobs after their time in the joint.

One story locally a few years back was on one kid who did five for armed robbery. Nobody wanted to hire him... usual story. Local Starbucks did. Kid was such a model employee and bright that in the end he went to school on their dime, and became a regional manager. That was the reason it made it to the nooz.

At this point it galls me the wishes a few people have for this guy. Yes he did torture dogs... no he did not treat them well... he did give up his right to own a dog... but... something good could come out of this.

[Ysabel]

72. omfg who the effing hell is vick?

nt...

[jobycom]

75. He invented a vapor rub and cough drops, but he tested them on dogs.

And now everyone is mad because Obama used one of the cough drops while watching a football game. Something like that, anyway.

[PurityOfEssence]

76. At best, it was clumsy

Vick is not to be praised as a human being. The idea of training dogs to rip each other to shreds for the sport and betting profit of the audience is truly sick. Obama should know better, and considering how serially cautious he is, its surprising he made this stumble.

It plays into all sorts of sore spots for all kinds of people, and what you're observing here is not surprising. Animal rights activists exist on this board in abundance. Those who are disgusted at the double standard enjoyed by the rich and famous are pretty disgusted by this, too. Those who are tired of sports being elevated to something transcendent and exempt from rules of comportment are sick of this. Those of us who are by nature bored silly by the mind-numbing fixation on sports are annoyed.

There's also a racial element to it, since he's a prominent black quarterback in a world where that is still a bit of a rarity, so that prompts some of the defense of him that wouldn't otherwise be there.

It's a medium-sized deal, and sadly, many of the flare-ups that really make a dent in things are about things that aren't high crimes. It's a publicity fuck-up, and it could have easily been avoided. It SHOULD have been avoided. What's screwy is that someone so neurotically risk-averse as our President made a misstep like this.

None of your yearnings for the acceptance of ex-cons is served by this: Vick is a rich, famous sports celebrity; he lives by other rules than the mere rabble. To me, I view it through the prism of privilege, which I dislike intensely. Still, there's a price to fame, and it gets charged at unexpected times. Bummer.

Someone as attuned to people's feelings as this man seems to be should have never made such a tone-deaf move, and it's news simply because it's news.

Judging from the subject matter of other dust-ups here, I'm not really viewing this as anything particularly surprising; the reactions seem predictable and appropriate, and the defenses are somewhat understandable, if a bit self-righteous. Both sides are being plenty sanctimonious, and it seems to be sorting out appropriately.

Why the big surprise?