Obama Budget FAIL. Once again

[grahamhgreen]

Obama accepted the Republican framing and worked within it, that being "how much should we cut from social spending to balance the budget?".

This is pathetic as the Democratic framing is:

- "how much do we raise taxes on the ultra rich and the criminally rich corporations?".

- "how much do we cut from the war budgets and military spending?".

- "what loopholes can we close on tax havens to raise revenues?".

- etc.

These are simple concepts that even he obviously understands. The fact that he so willingly adopts the Republican framing on virtually every issue, tells me that this man is leading us to the same place as the Republicans, but by a slower and more circuitous route.

He needs to start pushing for tax increases on the wealthy, which is what 81% of Americans want. If we return to the tax rates and structures on the wealthy of the 1950's, our debt and deficit will be gone in 10 years.

If he can't do this, he needs to GTFO.

[myrna minx]

1. This serial capitulation proves that we're on our own.

:-(

[Raine]

44. That's for sure, no one has our back. nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snappyturtle]

3. K&R Absolutely! I just wish I knew what happens to a president-elect

between the election and inaguration that is so profound to cause, what I think of as, a great disconnect with supporters. This re-framing is an example of the disconnect. Thanks for posting.

edit: I also wish un-reccers would give us a reason. I love President Obama and I cried like an old woman on his election day. I thought the country was heading in the right direction. I don't feel that way anymore. The op makes a good point.

[corpseratemedia]

4. of course the biggest issue being that the republican "solution" will only make matters much worse

HE KNOWS IT.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

6. I think it should be obvious by now that Obama and the Dems aren't "caving."

This is what they wanted all along; the run-up to the shutdown was all theater. We have no representation in government anymore.

[Citizen Worker]

26. You have nailed it RandomKoolzip. This "battle" over the budget was pure kabuki theatre from day

one. The next step in the fraud is when the democrats tell us that we have but two choices in the long term budget. Choice one will be the Catfood Commission and the second choice the more vicious and draconian rethuglican budget. Obama will push the Catfood Commission recommendations while the rethugs push their budget proposal and the democrats will tell us there's no other choice. There will be an epic "struggle" over the two proposals and Catfood will win out and the democrats will claim victory and many of us will cheer on Obama believing the propaganda. Hide and watch.

[Raine]

42. Exactly!

It was all for show. They knew all along what they were going to do, there is no way I can believe otherwise. x(

[AndyTiedye]

7. We Haven't Got The Votes to Raise Taxes on the Wealthy

and nothing Obama can say or do will change that.

[grahamhgreen]

8. It wouldn't have taken any votes in December - all he had to do was DO NOTHING,

(which he failed at as well) now, he needs to fight for the tax increases as he said he would.

When you have 81% of Americans on your side - you can not lose.

[AndyTiedye]

9. That Would Have Raised Taxes on Everybody

81% of Americans would NOT have supported THAT!

We tried raising just upper-class taxes, but that fell to the Republican filibuster.

The votes weren't there last year, and they certainly aren't there now.

[dionysus]

11. i'm starting to think, that either ppl really have no idea how govt works, or they do, and

simply want a liberal dictator.

[grahamhgreen]

All he had to do was DO NOTHING! NOTHING! What is there to understand?

Do nothing and the cuts expire.

Pass what you want in the lame duck as a separate bill

But what he chose was - pass the cuts and then start in with the austerity and cutting services to Grandam Millie, while blowing off your pop gun in another foolish war.

It's beyond absurd.

[dionysus]

17. with all due respect graham, you're wrong.

1) all tax brackets go up, unemployed lose benefits.
2) GOP (and half of DU) scream how obama let the unemployed down, and he broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class.
3) Dems put up standalone bill for middle class tax cuts and unemployment benefits.
4) GOP filiibusters
5) the end

[grahamhgreen]

21. If the Repubs fillibustered tax cuts for the middle class, it would have been the end of their party

IMHO.

[leftstreet]

23. +1 But technically, the 2nd end. Voters annihilated them in 2006 & 2008

But, strangely, they got revived

hmmm

[AndyTiedye]

32. Citizens United Changed Everything

Unlimited money has a way of doing that.

[AndyTiedye]

31. The Repubs DID Filibuster Middle Class Tax Cuts, and Suffered NO CONSEQUENCES AT ALL

The bill we all want passed the House last Fall, and died in the Senate due to the unbreakable Republican filibuster.

There were NO consequences to the Republicans because the media soft-pedaled it.

I know it is hard to accept that the media really has so much power, but there it is.

[BzaDem]

43. EXACTLY. +1 for reality. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

58. Those bills failed to even get Feingolds support.

[bluestate10]

22. How many liberal dictators have you witnessed rule?

All start out mouthing liberal ideas, but once in power...

The Left's mind is locked in an era when the brutal reality that the rest of the world has caught up with the USA was not a remote possibility and plenty of free money and resources existed to "solve" societal problems. Well, those days are long gone. What exists today is a world in which every penny of every tax dollar must be scrutinized.

[grahamhgreen]

12. Not really, you can't cut taxes when you're running a deficit,

all he really did was force me to borrow more money that I will have to pay back at interest - that's not a tax cut at all.

Furthermore, the majority did support letting the cuts for the wealthy expire.

This is a no brainer, you let the tax cuts expire and then you pass the the stuff Americans want as a separate bill.

The reason they would not do that is because the only thing they wanted was the tax cuts for the rich, so they could move to austerity.

This stuff is politics 101.

[dionysus]

13. .

:rofl:

[grahamhgreen]

15. That's a response?

:spank:

[mvd]

14. Some principles are worth a shutdown. I know it's hard..

to stomach, but this country just gets more and more RW with the compromise approach.

[AndyTiedye]

33. A Shutdown IS Giving In to the Teabaggers

A shutdown is what they want!

[mvd]

41. Well, I'd also want it if this budget cuts programs for the poor/middle class too much

It's not that simple.

[AndyTiedye]

46. A Shutdown Eliminates All of Those Programs Completely

What incentive do you think the Teabaggers would have to allow the government to start up again?
They could just keep it shut down and they win.

[mvd]

47. I just don't agree

I'm looking at it from my perspective, and not theirs. I don't think the public would put up with an shutdown forever. Remember the Clinton years. They'd have to give us a better deal, IMO.

[AndyTiedye]

51. Obama Would Get the Blame for the Shutdown, and Then He'd be in an Even Worse Bargaining Position

The Republicans' trump card is the media, with which they can ensure that the blame for any shutdown falls on Obama.

[dionysus]

10. the unemployed who would have lost benefits and the ppl making less than 250k who would have had

their taxes go up, would have begged to differ.

[grahamhgreen]

16. Not if you passed it as a seperate bill in the lame duck.

[dionysus]

18. would have been fillibustered like everything else.

[mvd]

19. I know where you are coming from, dionysus

I thought the health bill was better than nothing. But extending Bush tax cuts and these spending cuts are over my tolerance level. I reluctantly accept the cuts as a normal citizen, but would have voted no if I was in Congress. I think both our positions have merit. :hi:

[dionysus]

40. fair enough!

:hi:

[grahamhgreen]

20. I do not believe for an instant that the repubs would have fillibustered tax cuts for the middle

class.

Would not have happened.

[bahrbearian]

24. The Repugs were scared shit-less to have that up for vote, Obama helped them save face.

[AndyTiedye]

29. FALSE. The Repubs Filibustered it to Keep it From Coming to a Vote in the Senate

[bahrbearian]

35. False?

Your not paying attention to what was said.

[AndyTiedye]

28. The Republicans ALREADY DID Filbuster Tax Cuts for the Middle Class & Below

We had just such a bill pass the House last year. It died in the Senate due to the Republican filibuster.

Yes, the Republicans really DID filibuster middle-class tax cuts. You didn't hear about it?
Well the MSM didn't really consider it to be news, so they didn't report it much.

[grahamhgreen]

34. Link?

[BzaDem]

45. Not only did they filibuster tax cuts for just those up to 250k, they filibustered tax cuts for

those just up to 1 million.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/senate-republicans-block-middle-class-tax-cut.php

"Senate Republicans today successfully filibustered two Democratic tax cut bills that would have allowed Bush-era tax cuts benefiting only the wealthiest sliver of the country to expire. The party-line votes were intended by Democratic leaders to put Republicans on the record blocking the extension of tax cuts that would have benefited all Americans in order to secure additional tax cuts for the highest-income earners in America.

Today's result was never in doubt. At a press conference yesterday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY), who masterminded the votes, characterized today's exercise as part of a long-running argument between Democrats and Republicans -- one that voters will judge on election day in 2012. "This is going to be a winning argument not just for the next one to two weeks, but for the next two years," he said.

The two bills that failed were similar, but served very different purposes. The first, to preserve the Bush-era tax cuts for income up to $250,000, was passed by the House earlier this week, and would have represented a fulfillment of President Obama's campaign pledge to allow taxes to increase for income above that level. The second would have raised that threshold to $1,000,000. Its purpose was meant to emphasize the lengths Republicans will go to to protect the interests of millionaires."

--snip--

[grahamhgreen]

54. They didn't even have Feingold. Dems also voted against those

bills because they were unfunded.

Just include some war budget trimming.

[TheKentuckian]

36. That is why you end all of them and decouple the the bracket so they cannot hide behind

false principle arguments. Make them vote against reality not a hypothetical. In that circumstance it would be clear cut that the Republicans killed tax relief for the majority.

Our tactics failed to make them say no because they were allowed to say they were holding out for the whole ball of wax.

All of that said, the cuts needed to go not just for the top 2% but at bare minimum for the top 20% and to really stimulate demand all relief should have been target to the bottom 20 or 40 percent and that temporarily.

The whole deal is bad economics using a lil fig leaf of helping everybody just like one Bush pushed them.

[AndyTiedye]

38. If We Ended Them All, They'd Just Let The Economy Go Into a Tailspin and Blame Obama

[TheKentuckian]

62. What is different now? They haven't slowed down the blame and are doing anything they can to be

gremlins in the works.

You must accept that there is no "winning" with these folks. As soon as you give them what they didn't even wish for they will move the goalposts to some here to not before conceived point.

Appeasement does not work. You can be appeased but these folks aren't like you. There is no bargaining.

[mvd]

48. We just didn't message effectively again. Voting against..

middle class tax cuts should have had a big impact despite the MSM.

[AndyTiedye]

64. But It Doesn't. We Currently Have No Way to Reach Those Who Get Their "News" from the Tee Vee

The "bully pulpit" no longer exists. Obama can request TV time, but they don't even have to give it to him.
Even if they do, they can carpet-bomb the airwaves with their point of view and even Obama's speaking skills
cannot overcome that.

We have the Internet, which is great for communicating with people who already agree with us,
but we still have no way to reach the people who get their news from the Tee Vee.

[MadMaddie]

25. When they tried the Republicans blocked everything the past

two years, it's odd how many don't remember that.

I also notice that no one mentions that President Obama protected Planned Parenthood and the EPA...but oh well...ignoring facts never gets in the way of complaining...

No doubt if the budget wasn't passed President Obama would be getting the blame for that....nothing new to see here.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

30. Pathetic.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Telly Savalas]

52. Facts are being willfully ignored.

There's simply way too much misinformation at DU to be attributed to stupidity. While there's a lot of insightful fact-based criticism of the Obama Administration, there's also a lot of mindless shit-slinging much of which is certainly the product of a focused effort to demoralize and dampen the enthusiasm of the Democratic Party.

[grahamhgreen]

57. Fact: Obama is using Republican framing.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueIris]

49. I almost weep for him.

Almost.

[upi402]

50. lol

all hail the UNIPARTY


suckers

stick a fork in it for me, i'm too tired from fighting both damn sides...........................

[RBInMaine]

53. You do what you can with the congress you have. Your post is very unfair.

[grahamhgreen]

55. Unfair is forcing Americans to pay for wars they don't want, by taking away

Programs that we do want.

[Lorien]

56. That sure as hell wasn't BushCo's philosophy.

Obama is either weak or corrupt.

[Kalun D]

59. Your Post Is Very Bullship

Obama continually makes deals with the repugs while ignoring the dems. He even has them appointed to positions in his admin and has them on advisory boards.

the last straw for me was the Social Security cat food commission and shortly thereafter when he pushed through the Social Security "tax cut". Defunding SS, the demonic repugs have been trying to do this for years. The only way it could get done was with a TWO FACED BACK STABBING FAKE DEMOCRAT in the White House.

[I Drink Water]

61. Unfair is letting one of the most wretched GOP take America hostaage over an inane

and fabricated crisis that will lead to an attack on the working class and lower incomes.

[solara]

60. He should GTFO? Who will replace him? You? Geez, get a grip eom

[grahamhgreen]

63. I believe a sprig of arugala could do a better job,

at least the arugula would have let the Bush tax cuts expire!