Progressives Must Stand Up To The President - Cenk Uygur/DailyKos

[WillyT]

Progressives Must Stand up to the President
by Cenk Uygur/DailyKos
SAT APR 09, 2011 AT 12:19 PM EDT

<snip>

...

First, I want to make clear I am not a Monday morning quarterback. Anyone who watches me on The Young Turks or on MSNBC knows that I have been saying all along that Obama was going to fall for this trick and that he was going to go way past $33 billion. It's just who he is. He hates conflict. There almost isn't any deal you can't get him to sign off on. And that's my whole point for writing this -- we can not have him do this next time!

Next time, the negotiations are over trillions, not billions. If he meets them more than halfway -- as he has done every single time now -- it will be a colossal disaster. Whenever Republican presidents try to cut Social Security or Medicare, they run into a brick wall. If the Republicans use President Obama to help them do that instead, then he will have done more damage than a Republican president can.

I hear from Democrats every single time that they'll fight the next time. And it's never the next time. Well, this time we've hit the wall. The next negotiations will be inarguably the most important. If the president obamas this (yes, I used it as a verb), it will be catastrophic.

Now, I want to ask even the most ardent Obama supporters -- do you really believe the president is going to hold strong the next time around? Even you don't believe that, right? It's not who he is. He will look to get past partisan politics. What's the only way to do that when one side is being obstinate? To give in to them. How many times have we seen this movie?

I didn't write this to rub it in the face of the feckless Democrats who always wind up playing the role of the Washington Generals to the Republican Globetrotters (remember the Democrats have the White House and the Senate -- but they let the GOP run the place like they are totally in charge). I wrote it to tell you how incredibly important it is that you put real pressure on the president from the left. He will move to the middle of any spectrum!

...

<snip>

Link: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/09/965207/-Progressives-Must-Stand-up-to-the-President

:kick:

[northoftheborder]

1. ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, CORRECT

[dana_b]

2. Cenk is right

keep giving, and giving, and giving in until there is nothing left to give into.

Here is what Rep. Weiner said last night:
"Our fights can't be just to stop their horrible ideas. Don't we need to have our own agenda? #makethisarealchoice"

He is right too. They need to have their own agenda and be on the assertive side - for once!

[dennis4868]

3. Cent and the rest of us...

May not like it but the repubs, especially the ones in the House are very relevant to any budget agreement. Both repubs and dems did not get everything they wanted and there was give and take...I think people forget that any bill, including a budget, has to pass the House, right? Did that change?

[truedelphi]

101. However in the past, when a matter is of extreme importance,

The President was addressing the nation BEFORE the crisis hit the fan.

Instead Obama waits until AFTER he and the Republicans sign off on a seven hundred billion tax cut for the rich to tell us about it.

And in this case, he waited until after the Democrats in Congress allowed an extra five and a half billion dollars to get tacked on to the bill.

SHAME on you Mr President.

[AzDar]

4. K & R

[loudsue]

5. I guess Cenk still thinks Obama is a democrat. Or even gives a shit about the poor.

That's where this whole OP is worthless.

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. Obama is a Bob Dole Democrat

and I'm sure his personal preference is that the poor don't suffer.

[NorthCarolina]

58. A "Bob Dole Democrat"???

:wtf:

[RBInMaine]

11. Your reply is a radical joke. Please find the planet. Obama will win in '12. get real.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhett o rick]

37. Of course he will win. He will have the support of millions of republicans. Is that a victory

for the lower classes. FUCK NO.

[rhett o rick]

38. We do not have a chance in this war to save Democracy if we keep framing the fight as between Demo's

and Repub's. We are in a class war and almost all of Congress and Pres Obama are members of the Ruling Class. Why would you expect them to help the lower classes???

[sendero]

66. Exactly..

.. and those who can't see that Obama has DEFECTED are frankly not bright enough to tie their shoes properly.

[dotymed]

62. Revolution is our only hope.

Honestly, there is no putting the "money jeanie" back in the bottle. IMO, the proposed Second Bill of Rights, by FDR, should be our uncompromising goal.
That along with a return to the progressive taxation of the past (pre-Reagan), an end to Citizens United, return of (at least) Glass-Steagal Act, and fair trade not free trade. Americans deserve each one of these and all of these "demands" are taken for granted in other "civilized nations."

[tonybgood]

74. Well Said!

[Plucketeer]

91. SPOT ON!

I'm ready.

[davidwparker]

97. +1

[rhett o rick]

103. Bravo. nm

[grahamhgreen]

93. No, he won't. Come election time, the corporate banksters he calls 'freinds' are going to screw him

[inna]

23. it's not worthless at all, it's a little naive perhaps - but not "worthless"

[Ohio Joe]

6. I've said it so many times

You have to make yourself heard, you have to speak up... and not just on a message board. Write the President, write your reps... Hell, write other peoples reps when they are being douchebags. Write them when they do good things, write them when you get pissed off by their action. Write, write, write. People simply do not feel their little note will do anything so they don't write. Politicians do listen when they get hundreds of thousands of notes all telling them the same thing.

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

[bvar22]

18. You believe Obama does NOT already KNOW this?

[Ohio Joe]

22. Fine, avoid writing

"he's heard, I don't need to keep driving it home"

Give up, I don't give a shit.

[Lorien]

43. +1. Every day. And hardcopy letters have more impact than 100 emails. nt

[Ohio Joe]

69. Agreed, you are correct - nt

[theophilus]

44. Or run for President in the Democratic party. As a Liberal. n/t

[tomp]

71. bullshit. they do not listen.

in the end it's the big money players who get listened to. period. any other reading of american politics is bullshit.

the only thing that works is MASSIVE and i mean prolonged MASSIVE demonstrations (think Egypt, think LONGER than wisconsin, think we don't go home until we get what we want, and when you come with the troops we still won't go home).

THAT AND ONLY THAT is what works. everything else is diversion. the only question is: are you diverting because you're naive or because you're on the side of big money?

[KoKo]

75. Have to agree...after over 10 years of Phone, Fax, Letters, E-Mails...they didn't listen.

Those of us who've been around working for change that long and longer know that it doesn't work. Those of us who got involved with our local Dem Party after the "Stolen Election 2000" know what happened after Howard Dan was no longer DNC Chair.

Massive demonstrations are the only thing they listen to. Or, having BIG BENEFACTORS like the KOCH Brothers and the Richard Mellon Scaifes...

[datasuspect]

78. the only thing big money will listen to is outright revolution in the streets

they KNEW we were getting close to it in the late 60s and early 70s, and they made damn sure that it would never happen again.

since that time there has been a concerted effort on the behalf of our owners to get us in line:

-distortion of the historical message: protestors went from being seen as just for working for social justice, civil rights, and working against the vietnam war. that changed due to late 70s, early 80s history editing (cf. reagan administration). the protestors of yore became john rambos's "they spit on us and called us baby killers. nowadays? you can knock the wind out of any movement by monitoring phone calls instantly online, fbi infiltration, TOTAL law enforcement harassment and surveillance.

-they've militarized law enforcement. your local cop shop probably has a fucking tank, a squad that can do riot suppression, urban tactical maneuvers, and that has military grades weapons and munitions, plus a host of non-lethal or less-than-lethal crowd control weapons. this is courtesy of the war on drugs.

-television has become TOTAL and ubiquitous. This, in concert with 24-7 connectivity and almost complete information about your whereabouts and those of your family and friends conveniently accessible from 3rd party companies (which can be obtained without a warrant), has essentially killed any notion of privacy. chances are, you more than likely have a GPS identifier/beacon in your pocket or near you at this very moment. bottom line, they know we are distracted, they know we have no attention span, they know that the majority of people will believe ANYTHING they see on a teevee. especially if a suit is saying it.

no, they do not listen. they create the message. they write the rules. they own us.

we listen. far too many believe without questioning.

[dotymed]

113. Even our money is "wired."

Seriously, all of the "new" bills have "bar codes" in them, supposedly to track large quantities of money traveling through an airport or some such B.S.

[Blue_In_AK]

7. How I would love a Democratic Party and a president

with some backbone. I'm not holding my breath.

[labor4ever]

8. He is right. However, most voices who speak the truth are ultimately censored, so they aren't heard.

We really need to change the way people are elected in our country, e.g. campaign finance reform.

Today only the well connected, with access to huge sums of money can get elected to high office today. So only those who are indebted to the rich, not the people, get in, and therefore they only serve the elite.

We need real change.

[tcaudilllg]

87. And who is doing the censoring?

1) people who hate conflict (like Obama)
2) people who have a vested interest in seeing him cave.

[RBInMaine]

9. Ultra leftism has been and will always be a national loser. Get real. End the pipe dreams. Obama IS

"PROGRESSIVE" to anyone who actually knows what that word means. It means PROGRESS and not purity. Obama will win mainstream liberals overwhelmingly and the centrists that absolutely MUST be won to win a national election. Welcome, again, to reality.

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. Obama plays referee between the sides

Personally, that may be a winning position for him. A mediator helps bridge gaps, Obama does that too - and that often leads to "progress" as a nuetral term, assuming you place no particular value on which way movement goes. But Obama has no been a leader confronting the ideological agenda of the Right. Unfortunately, since most Democrats understandably defer to an extent to an elected President from our own party, that means there is no strong leadership against an extreme right ideology on the offense. That means political discourse continues to drift to the right, and the deals that Obama cuts moves that way with them.

[MadHound]

15. Ultra Leftism? You mean running on and adhereing to a platform that is to the left of Obama's?

"We are proud of and shall continue our far-reaching and sound advances in matters of basic human needs—expansion of social security—broadened coverage in unemployment insurance —improved housing—and better health protection for all our people. We are determined that our government remain warmly responsive to the urgent social and economic problems of our people."

Republican Party platform, 1956
<http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25838#axzz1J3T94P9b>

Eisenhower as an "ultra leftist":rofl:

Laughing because that concept is truly a sad one, when a 'Pug is now actually to the left of Obama.

[bvar22]

19. "Ultra leftism"....means standing with the MAJORITY of Americans?

Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
Lofty Rhetoric, Broken Promises, and Whiny Excuses mean NOTHING now.
"By their WORKS you will know them,"
and by their WORKS they will be judged.

[labor4ever]

20. That is a popular RW refrain I hear all the time The Truth is that America is in Favor of Preserving

our entitlements.

In fact, Americans support taxing the Rich and cutting Military spending to ensure there fiscal viability.

Instead we are forced to accept disaster capitalism at it's most retched, with these repeated, fake, dramatic, final solutions, enacted in secrecy, at the last minute.

It's like we are living in bizzaro world.

=(

[leveymg]

25. Playing to the crowd works for the GOP - why should it be any different for Dems?

The Repubs do one thing really well: keeping their base mobilized. By acting as if they're really the opposition, with a set of principles (yes, I realize the irony there) they keep their rank and file coming back for more red meat.

In virtually every election cycle in which the Democrats lose, they have abandoned their base and play an unconvincing game of triangulation, discouraging and alienating their own foot soldiers: labor, minorities, the middle-class and the poor. Over and over again, the Dem leadership tries this, and it doesn't work. There have been exceptions - in '08 Obama's rhetoric sounded a lot more progressive than Obama The President has turned out to be. He won overwhelmingly because people expected him to be exception - the progressive he played on the campaign trail. In reality, he's been a major disappointment to almost all of his base.

I know first-hand about the history and dynamics of modern American politics - I've been involved in Democratic campaigns going back to LBJ. It's a matter of pragmatics for Obama to be more progressive, not purity - we have to remind him of that, or he really will go into the next election without us.

[Ramulux]

28. I love how you just throw around ad-hominem attacks

and never respond to the substance of the argument being presented.

[brentspeak]

79. Pretty much all that poster every does n/t

[Donnachaidh]

29. shrill much?

Reality is for the folks who don't foam at the mouth every time dissent peeks around the corner. :eyes:

[nashville_brook]

92. +1

[sabrina 1]

39. As a mainstream liberal, I would prefer you did not speak for me.

The progress most people are seeing in this country is for the wealthy. But little or nothing for the poor and the middle class. He caved again this week and gave up more of the programs that are needed for ordinary people, AFTER handing the wealthy over 700 billion in tax cuts. He's not interested in the American people. He belongs to a club they do not belong to.

And that's fine, it's far better not to continue to be fooled so you know what you have to do. Congress is where people need to put their efforts this time and not waste time and money on the Presidential race. He will get plenty of money from the Wall St. gang, he certainly worked hard for them.

Vote for him, yes, the alternatives are frightening, but I will not be putting one dime or one minute into that race. We need a real progressive Congress so that the WH, no matter who is there, cannot get away with anything that doesn't benefit the people. That's where the effort needs to be. The presidency has become nothing more than a PR firm for the wealthy. We can't buy it, so why waste the money? But Congress is possible with the same amount of effort that went into getting this president elected last time, we could do it in a few elections cycles.

[Lorien]

40. Why are you on this board? If you think that anything to the Left of far

Right fascist extremism is "ultra leftism", then you need to find another party. The Left built the Democratic party, and mainstream Democrats are LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES.

[Union Scribe]

41. Maybe if you lecture some more and say "get real" a few more times

Everyone will fall in line.

[cui bono]

47. But first we have to "find the planet".

Couldn't decide whether to use :eyes: or :rofl:. Sheesh.

[cui bono]

46. And YOU are telling someone to "find the planet" ?

That is rich.

Obama is a progressive? Only if you have Republican goals.

Please.

[liberation]

54. Ah, if only people got to redefine any term to fit their agenda at will

we could have saved ourselves a couple of millennia of philosophy, at least.

Alas...

[tcaudilllg]

88. Hardly so.

We've had LBJ, we've had Carter. All those presidents who may not have won the people's favor, but who did the right thing.

What I don't understand is, why hasn't Obama learned from these?

[grahamhgreen]

94. 81% of Americans want to tax the rich, 63% out of Afghanistan. How is that "Ultra-Left"????

[Doremus]

110. Progress? Yes, he's made progress.`

More troops in Afghanistan
No prosecution of war crimes
No single payer health care, not even a good public option
More charter schools, more piling on public schools
More funneling of public dollars into private pockets
Etc
Etc

Lotsa progress.

Guess it just depends which side you're on whether you think it's progress for good or not-so-good.

[Tatiana]

12. "They know President Obama will go to the middle of any spectrum, no matter how radical."

Pretty much sums it up right there...

[CherylK]

30. +1

:thumbsup:

[highplainsdem]

13. K&R

[girl gone mad]

16. k & r

[Peregrine Took]

17. + 10000 n/t

[leftstreet]

21. K&R

[treestar]

24. It would just be a "stand."

You would get nothing in return for it. Kind of like Obama would be if he would just take a "stand." Obama is a much better negotiator than anyone here or on the PL, who just wouldn't know what to do and would simply walk away from any negotiation, because the other side is never going to just give away everything. The all or nothing mentality means no deal every time. Nothing would ever happen.

What's the left's bargaining chip with the POTUS? They don't know how to negotiate at all. They don't recognize anything if everything is not done. The POTUS would only be bargaining against himself.

[radiclib]

90. Thanks for the classic projection

The "all or nothing mentality" you speak of belongs to the teabagging freaks who control the agenda, and it's working very well for them.
Check the history of any progressive legislation that ever got passed. We got Medicare because a compromise was made. It was originally proposed for everyone, not just seniors.
Can you imagine anything even remotely comparable being proposed by our "transformative" president, or by the corporate stooges who dominate the Democratic party?

[Ramulux]

26. Cenk is right as always

[me b zola]

27. Recommended

[iwishiwas]

32. He is not listening to Progressives.

[boston bean]

33. Many progressives think he is doing fine. They will not lend their voice! nt.

[upi402]

34. kick for Cenk n/t

[marew]

35. I LOVE Cenk!

He is the best-- and so bright! :loveya:

[Raine]

36. Cenk TOTALLY on point! nt

:thumbsup:

[Lorien]

42. AMEN! My only disagreement: Obama is not in any "middle"; he's a Right Wing

Reagan era conservative. If we keep moving the "middle" will end up with Authoritarianism on one end and Fascism on the other.

[crickets]

45. Agreed. The "middle" got left in the dust long ago. -nt

[democracy1st]

50. the first thing I thought of was "AMEN" about time.

[Capitalocracy]

51. We're already there. But if you asked Cenk, he'd tell you...

he's not talking about the middle in terms of the American people, or the American electorate (ie, those who vote, especially in swing states). He's talking about what he would refer to as the "Washington middle", the middle according to the right-wing media, the pundits, and the Chicago Boys and Goldman Sachs employees that surround Obama every day.

[Cameron27]

52. Yep

and the digusting relabeling of the traditional liberal left as fringe, or ultra radical is just an Orwellian attempt to hide that fact.

[KoKo]

76. I think he's as removed from what goes around as Reagan was...

and he let's those with power "do their thing" and once in awhile comes in to look like a hero.

Remember when he gave the Presidential Podium over to Bill Clinton to get support for the "tax extension" because he was late to lunch with the First Lady? No President I've ever seen or read about has done such a bizarre thing.

[aggiesal]

48. If Obama keeps winning battles like this ...

he's going to lose the WAR to the Republicans.

[upi402]

49. He's a corporatist

I don't see too much daylight between the D's and the R's sometimes.

[amborin]

53. K&R

[Enthusiast]

55. I don't believe Obama "fell" for anything.

And when he signs a law privatizing medicare it won't be because the Republicans "tricked him". That is all a ruse.

[neoralme]

57. Right. This is the way it was from the start. There is no tricks

about it. Obama's comments on Reagan and Reaganism were the first clues for me. We basically elected a Republican who managed to pass Bob Dole's Health Program, is leading us into war after war, and is actively leading us into domestic Armageddon. When that Russian professor, Igor Panarin, said in late 2008 that the US will break up into five areas after 2008, I shined it on. Now, I think it or something equally bizzare will happen. This is why Bush reversed posse comitatus--there will be troops everywhere once the dollar starts crashing.

[KoKo]

77. That's a scary thought.... seriously..

[Divernan]

80. When Obama entered politics, he was based in a Democratic city

and in an era when the GOP was not running minority candidates for anything. He HAD to run as a Democrat to win office.
Unfortunately, he doesn't have to be true to traditional Democratic values to rule.
Based on his policy choices and actions, versus his campaign rhetoric, and particularly his announced ambition to raise a billion dollars for his next campaign, he's firmly sided with the big money interests in the country - who also have no use for traditional Democratic values.

[neoralme]

108. Thanks for that. It completed a missing link for me. I wonder how

many people understand the angle you mention. I should have studied Chicago politics more, but since I was at the 1968 Democratic convention and went through some Chicago horror, I have pretty much pretended Chicago doesn't exist. Excellent find.

[Divernan]

109. It made absolute sense to me when I heard someone state it.

[tomp]

72. correct. many, if not most, dems are still unbelievably naive.

the naivete of supporters of the dem party is the biggest problem we face in becoming effective in changing things.

[Roci]

56. It is as simple and visceral as this

Every time Obama gives an inch the Party of NO (and this includes the "tea party) take another mile. Perhaps, in his mind Obama isn't giving up very much. But its all a matter of perspective. Every time he gives an inch, some one else has to give up the mile. Obama has chosen to see the inches, and has lost sight and vision of the miles.

[democrank]

59. The Democratic Party is becoming almost unrecognizable.

As long as Democrats keep nodding, making excuses and voting for spineless "leaders" NOTHING will change.

[tinwi]

60. Dont judge all dems on the prez

Remember the 14 from Wisconsin, and the dem state senate of Indiana. There is also Weiner, Kuchinic, Sanders, etc. Maybe we just need to do like the pugs and weed out the 'dems in name only'

[creon]

61. How?

You "stand up" to the president by organizing, recruiting progressives/ liberals to run for Congress; get them nominated and elected.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stinky The Clown]

64. Obama has demonstrated a near-total lack of leadership

He stands by the sidelines.

He waits for others to decide.

He lets others write the bills he says he wants passed.

A serious examination of recent history will show this pattern time and again.

[mod mom]

68. what a total disappointment! and he wants to know if we're "IN"!

[Divernan]

81. Yeah, we're "in", Mr. President - "in extremis"

in extremis - definition of in extremis by the Free Online ...
in ex·tre·mis ( n k-str m s). adv. 1. At the point of death. 2. In grave or extreme circumstances.

[Fuddnik]

86. "We're in" Deep Shit.

[howmad1]

107. Yea, in like Flynn.

Obama might just go down in history as the worst Democratic president, ever! How sad.

[somone]

84. About as worthless as they come

[Stinky The Clown]

65. Rec #100

Better late than never.

[JTFrog]

67. Another morning,

Another turd in the punchbowl. And folks will come back for seconds... :eyes:

[sellitman]

70. Kucinich was right.

That's all I'll contribute to this conversation. Too bad Congress didn't do it's job.

[ejbr]

73. k & r n/t

[LoZoccolo]

82. Cenk Uygur: now on the automatic unrecommend list n/t

[JDPriestly]

83. Agreed, Cenk. But how do we put pressure on Obama from the left?

Marching in the streets does not seem to change anything.

I think we have to find one brave politician who will primary him.

[tcaudilllg]

89. No need for a primary

Support established Dems like Jesse Jackson, and we'll hurt him where it counts: his campaign wallet.

That 1 billion is not going to come easily, no sir!

[creon]

112. You know what to do

You know full well what to do.

Elect progressives/liberals to Congress.

[mm44sas]

85. Cenk is 2000% right

I have been closely watching this.. even my friends that are big Obama supporters did not realize that he had cut his budget by 40 billion even before it got to the negotiations table.. that is where even Obama called it '73 billion budget cut'.

That is a fact. Look it up.

So, this leads one to realize, that Obama is a very very poor negotiator.. he may be a wonderful person, and means well, but as a negotiators go.. he would be fired if he was a sales man.. imagine,, you go to buy a car, and the salesman cuts half the price even before you make an offer.. Cenk is right.. the GOP is laughing.. I mean LAUGHING at the Dems, and OBAMA.

I can not support this man in 2012, or any democrats like him. This is not good or healthy for the party.. unless you want the Democratic Party to be GOP-lite hybrid monster.

[grahamhgreen]

95. Cenk nails it..

[avaistheone1]

96. Cenk! k&r

:kick:

[NoodleyAppendage]

98. Obama is not a corporatist. He's a wounded soul.

Obama's need for consensus is fueled less by any allegiance to corporations and more to a deep-seated need to be liked by all parties. Cenk is right, though he doesn't realize how deep the President's need to be loved extends.

The best we can hope for is his Presidency being a one-term one. Obama is NOT going to change psychologically.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creon]

106. It will not

Do what you need to do:

Organize at the local level

Recruit candiates to run for Congress

get them nominated in the primary

get them elected to office.


That is what needs to be done.

Do or not do

[Poboy]

100. Recommend!

[indimuse]

102. KNR! n/t

[20score]

104. Exactly right!!

[ProSense]

105. "Cenk, dude, I'm tired of your crap--we need to talk!!"

Cenk, dude, I'm tired of your crap--we need to talk!!

[SidDithers]

114. +1...nt

Sid

[ihavenobias]

111. Kick n/t