I figure Boehner is now burnt toast...

[rasputin1952]

His idea of "leadership", cutting back on the days the House meets, "leading" from the golf course...doing nothing to reign in the Teabagger Baboons.

The loss last night is nothing more than what they will see next week, in spades. The table has been set, the GOP is given morsels, and they must fall down to their false god of "fiscal responsibility"....all the while pronouncing their social agenda...the real reason they are there.

[Drale]

1. He was orange buttery burnt toast before

He's fallen into the fire now.

[PassingFair]

41. I always thought it was more like BURNT SIENNA.

[pnwmom]

2. Not me. I think he's going to be the Rethug nominee for President.

Not kidding. Look at the rest of the field.

[Marie Marie]

5. He can make history as our first Orange President!

[pnwmom]

22. Donald Trump will give him some tough competition in that category. n/t

[MacNfries]

27. Trump is a Tea Partier ... don't take him lightly!

Donald Trump will never be President, or even serve a political post, but, he brings something the Republicans hold dear to their hearts ... lots and lots of MONEY! Donald Trump is a Tea Party supporter ... typical corporate man, and he looks down on the middle class citizens like we were cock roaches to be squashed. Democrats would be very wise to not take this idiot lightly. What is winning elections is MONEY ... lots of negative ads for the opposing Democrats, or Republicans that aren't playing ball with the Tea Party.
We just had a new, female, Republican senator get elected in NC this past fall ... she won because the Tea Party came to NC and flooded the airways with negative ads about her opponent. Later she said she had no idea who these people were or who was producing the TV ads. To this day, we still don't know "specifically" the where/who of those ads. But, it put the Republican in office.

[pnwmom]

36. I don't take any Rethug candidate lightly, because I've seen too often

the tactics they'll use to win.

Welcome to DU, MacNFries!

[MacNfries]

45. The Tea Party has money ...

Thank you, pnwmon for the welcome. I'm, by nature, not really "INTO" politics because its so much about smoke & mirrors and misdirecting and half truth statements. However, I have a profound fear of the Tea Party ... not because of what they stand for, but for who is backing them. When you have an endless supply of money, you can do practically anything to persuade weak, unknowledgeable people to react in a certain way. I've seen, first hand, what the Tea Party did in my state of North Carolina this past election. They didn't run TV and radio ads supporting the Republican candidates, they ran constant ads of lies and half truths against the Democratic candidates. This is what you call "positioning", and they did it quite well. And now, they are putting the pressure on the Republicans ... this is what we did ... either join us or go down! John Boehner realized that.
Democrats are simply unorganized and underfunded to handle the pressure the Tea Party brings.

[rasputin1952]

9. I think the GOP nominee is in the wings...

I get the impression he/she will be someone of relatively little note.

What they need is someone sane, pretty short order there from the "main" clowns posturing these days. No one wants to be the "sacrificial lamb", I think there is a deep rear in the GOP as well, that they will lose dramatically in 2012. The lack of anything that even comes close to sane policy is killing the GOP off...the Teabggers have become the bearers of gifts for the D's, if they wise up and deal with what they've been given.

[riderinthestorm]

12. yeah, key phrase there "wise up and deal with what they've been given."

Everything I've seen is that they simply react with confusion instead of DEALING WITH WHAT THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN and making strong policy statements on the absurd far right positions.

The Dem leadership framing the Rethug position as 'against women's healthcare" is brilliant. We need that x100000.

I agree that the Rethug candidate has not yet been established. At all. But I'm not convinced yet that its a nobody-yet-to-appear.

[Moderator]

15. Speaking of which...

I was so moved by O'Donnell's reading of the e-mail last night...I had to write him a note of thanks. It brought me to tears, and I hope that people understand te issues that women face when seeking medical care.

We need to hammer that home every day...we have wives, lovers, sisters, daughters, nieces, friends...that all need help; and Planned Parenthood is one way they can get it. Women's health has been on the back burner for FAR too long.

[riderinthestorm]

16. + another 100000.

Perhaps McConnell's "mispeak" can be used to illustrate the vast disconnect between truth and reality. I know WE understand the difference but the propaganda between "90% of PP's services are abortion" and the reality of "3% of PP's services are abortion" is huge.

[tblue37]

19. Jeb or Mario, I suspect. nt

[rasputin1952]

20. Not Jeb...the bush name is pure shit at this point..

Lil Boots made sure he that the bush "legacy" will quite simply be the worst presidency of all time...by the time history gets doe with that pissant...he'll make Andrew Johnson look as if he could walk on water...and Buchcanan would be festooned with Christmas lights.

Rubio...perhaps...but the Hispanic vote will not go GOP.

[tblue37]

31. Not so. A few months ago the R label was caca, too, but look how quickly it

was redeemed with the low-information American voters, who elected Republicans in droves in 2010 and now blame Democrats for the economic mess.

I think you overestimate the memory of the typical American voter. It takes about a nanosecond for the worst Republican crimes and incompetence to be forgotten, because IOKIYAR. Only Dems ever have to pay for missteps--no matter how minor they might be. In fact, Dems usually have to pay for Republicans' crimes and errors, as well.

[rasputin1952]

32. I also base this on the thought that Americans, regardless of political

stripe, have an inherent distaste for "dynasties"....particularly in politics. It reeks of "bloodline" crap that helped to destroy Europe and Asia.

[tblue37]

33. Yet they elected (with the help of Diebold and SCOTUS) Dimson

twice. Yes, I believe both elections were stolen, but that was possible only because enough dumbass Americans voted for him to make it close enough to steal.

Also, Hillary came very to being president. If Obama had been less of a rock star, Hillary would have had it in 2008. I like her and would have been satisfied to have her in the WH, but her near success indicates that Americans are just fine with political dynasties. Also, the Kennedeys and Rockefellers are political dynasties.

I think Americans are easily wowed by name recognition, and once a family has had someone in the WH, that "celebrity" makes it easier for any other person with that connection to win political office--including the presidency.

[rasputin1952]

34. It could be said of the Roosevelts as well....

but the Rockefeller's are dying out, Bobby Kennedy was cut down...bush the First was a dud, bush II will go down in history as the worst president, beating Andrew Johnson and Buchanan by a country mile.

There are times when my cynicism takes hold, and I can't believe that bush made it once, much less twice without some "outside" help. The GOP does no appear capable of winning any election without something nefarious in the process. Just look at the situation for the WI SC...it reeks of manipulation, and the good people of WI shoulld be firing up the tar pots and gathering feathers.

It will be interesting to see what pops up in the GOP...right now, eyes are on that moron Trump, so something is brewing further down in the pot...and it will be ugly.

[tanyev]

24. Jeb has ruled out 2012, but was very coy about 2016.

I take that as his admission that Obama will be very tough to beat in 2012.

[kentuck]

3. The intensity of his tears will increase...

as he slides deeper and deeper into the Teabagger trap.

[Davis_X_Machina]

4. There'll be a different Speaker by Christmas.

His own caucus will drive him out.

He compromised, and that is unacceptable. Nothing less than total victory is good enough.

After the debt-ceiling increase passes only with votes handed him by Pelosi, he's gone.

[pnwmom]

23. Then he'll run for President,

as someone who can work with Democrats.

[Davis_X_Machina]

30. No one...

...'who can work with Democrats' is going to get within sniffing distance of the GOP nomination. The opposite characteristic is the minimum acceptable requirement.

[MacNfries]

6. Boehner didn't cry, however, so he must be somewhat satisfied

Listen, people, these Tea Party Republicans are serious, and they are putting the pressure on the rest of the Republicans to support their agenda, which is to do away with entitlements, other than Farm Subsidies that half of the Tea Partiers get. Next time around they will have a strategy for getting more major cuts. Democrats have got to start taking up for themselves ... my god! The President saved their asses last night. They ought to be demanding removal of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, and demanding that corporations, like GE, start paying taxes, or tax their products as imports. Over $1.7 trillion of money goes untaxed between corporations and the wealthy hiding their money overseas, and all the tax loopholes for the wealthy. That's over half a trillion dollars of tax money. I just can't see how Republicans can expect the diminishing middle class to continue providing the tax money to operate this country.

[aquart]

7. In case you haven't noticed, teabags can't do math!

Basic arithmetic is beyond them. I would not trust one of them with a lunch check.

[bluestate10]

18. What they will understand is programs that they rely on being cut.

farm subsidies, sand dredging from shipping channels, dams for water retention, canals to carry water, special water treatment plants, maintaining un-needed military procurements. None of that spending is beneficial to the nation, all of it is beneficial to the election or re-election of republicans. I baffles me how a republican voting farmer in Iowa that is getting a subsidy of one half million dollars per year to grow a crop that is shipped to China views himself as more important to the nation than a young mother in NYC that uses daycare that is partially federally funded while she works as a nurse's aide caring for the aged, newborns, the injured, sick and dying. Republicans attach riders to eliminate daycare for working mothers, but democrats do nothing to remove wasteful farm subsidies that do nothing for the nation's well being.

[rasputin1952]

21. I am knee deep in North Central Nebraska...

over the past couple of months, huge new pickups, Fords, GMC's, Chevy's, Rams are all over the place...and they allhave Farm Plates and all the bells and whistles that can fit on a vehicle. Paid for by subsidies from the taxpayer. They use tax free gas because of the Farm Plates, and if any of these were to see a field, I'd have a heart attack. They have 1974 Chevy's that do the field work and 1950's vintage tractors that do th day to day work hauling crap around. Half million dollar combines with GPS leave the farmer in an air conditioned cab to read the newspaper while the machine does everything but eat the corn/soy...they have become the "Welfare Kings".

[bluestate10]

37. Keep fighting in the wilderness. Our side need people like you out there.

I don't understand why democrats don't take on farm subsidies. Yes, there are a few far state Senators like Nelson, the Senators from South Dakota and Iowa. But those seats are in real danger of changing hands, and likely will. Pelosi gains nothing from supporting farm subsidies, as do 100% of House democrats. Senate democrats are increasingly urban, they gain nothing from supporting farm subsidies. Democratic Congress must launch a full bore attack on farm subsidies, the oil depletion allowance, and federal income tax distribution where California and Illinois, Connecticut, Oregon, Massachusetts, Washington state, Michigan, Minnesota, pay for the governments of states like Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina with their federal tax dollars. Democrats must attach riders to budget and spending bills to cut wasteful republican spending and route federal tax dollars back into the treasury of their states. Failure of democrats to act decisively is resulting in changes like a Christie in New Jersey, or a Brown in Massachusetts, those changes are bad for those states and for the country and must be stopped.

[rasputin1952]

8. Welcome to DU MacNfries....

:hi:

[MacNfries]

26. I'm here because of Tea Partiers ... don't take these people lightly!

Thank you, rasputin. I have a general concern for the direction our country is heading, which is the reason I'm here. Until these Tea Party Republicans got into office, I pretty much took politics at face value ... Democrats vs Republicans ... win a few, lose a few ... BS as usual. But these Tea Party people really need to be addressed. They have a well organized agenda of their own. They bring a lot of corporate/wealthy americans money to the Republican table and say to the Republicans ... if you want some of this, DO THIS. They are flooding the airways with crap like never before. They have young voters convinced they are the good guys and their answer to all the economic problems going on. If they succeed, our very democracy is threatened ... not just medicare, medicaid, social security. We're talking about a country run by rich people and corporations and 3/4ths of us living like a third world country. We've got to get a grip on these politicians ... I mean ALL of them. That's why I'm here. Mac

[rasputin1952]

28. We are, essentially fighting a Second Revolution...

the things our forefathers fought against, the landed gentry and the serfs is what we are facing once again. The names have changed, and corporate America has a lot to do with it, but there are groups that have taken over the GOP, (once a party of progress!), that believe that they "deserve" to rule over the masses, either by birthright or wealth.

The intention of the wealthy is to do little more than gain more wealth, thereby gaining power. The current power players in the money world invest in cheap labor; what they cannot move overseas, they use fear here to ensure that the workers are in a constant state of terror of losing their jobs, so wages actually depress. Today, people are working longer hours for less spendable cash...the buying power of the dollar is at levels approaching the Great Depression, (the main difference being that there were no dollars during the Depression).

When the equation pans out further, those with vast sums of cash are not investing in the nation, they are investing in money markets worldwide. When the crash truly hits, there will be nothing except growing one's own food and scraping together some small hovel to avoid the elements.

We can do somethings about this, but the power of money is so great, and people are bought off so cheaply, it will take a groundswell of the population to take these people down. When a Congressman/Senator can be bought off for a few thousand, and the payoff to the "purchaser" is in the billions...it makes me wonder just how incredibly stupid the thieves are.

As for the Teabaggers....these people are so stupid, they have Senior Citizens sitting in lawn chairs crying about Social Security and Medicare...two social programs they benefit immensely from...let's stop a few checks and see how they really like what they are squawking about....:D

[MacNfries]

35. This really is the problem ... and it is growing very fast!

As I said, I use to quietly sit on the sidelines of politics and observe, maybe writing an opinion to the local newspapers occasionally, but in the past 4-5 months I've seen things happening that I've never seen happen before. I think of myself as a moderate, but most definitely not a conservative. What I'm seeing is a party (Tea Party) that is vassly supported by lots of money from big businesses with definite goals ... deregulation, anti-labor laws, school privatization, corporate tax reduction, unrestricted free trade, limits on corporate liability, etc, etc. They are strategically dismantling the benchmarks of our country. And you can't tell me the infiltration of illegals into the USA is not solvable without fences. Simply fining the corporations & businesses that hire undocumented workers would resolve 90% of illegals here ... but no one wants to piss off the corporations.
What happened in North Carolina this past election will happen in other states, and within 3-4 more elections, this country will be under Tea Party control. We need to stop them NOW! I'm not sure what the solution(s) are, but ridding ourselves of the electorial voting system might be a start.

[bluestate10]

38. The problem is that when SS is mentioned, democrats reflexively

oppose change. Republicans are not going away on the issue of SS reform, so democrats must turn the worm so that it burns republican's asses. You mentioned elderly teabaggers sitting in lawn chairs railing against programs that provide their income. The same can be said for republican voting elderly that stay home and for republican voting poor people, cops, firefighters, EMT technicians. Much is made in red states about how wasteful blue states are, but blue states have the highest private sector incomes and send enormous amounts of their federal tax dollars to run the governments of red states. Leaders like Pelosi and Reid must force bills to be crafted that attack the money drain from blue to red states. SS and medicare must be on the table for cuts, but democrats must force the cuts to be crafted in a way that does not pay a recipient more than 110% of what was paid in annually. Blue state seniors draw large amounts of their retirement income from non-governmental sources, red state seniors are dependent upon the fed largess, as is the economies in those states. As long as democrats shrink from forcing pain where it should be, republicans will continue to have people that are dependent on the federal government sitting in lawn chairs and driving around in golf carts working to destroy the functions of government, and going into voting booths to make that destruction more imminent.

[bluestate10]

17. Welcome to DU.

You are right that President Obama saved the day last night. But watch making that statement, some members get intensely angry with President Obama is given credit. One view on DU essentially sees President Obama as a faux republican. Few beliefs could be farther from reality. One issue that I do not understand is why democrats in the House allow republicans like Mike Pence to attach toxic riders to budget bills eliminating funding for Planned Parenthood, but those same democrats do not attach riders eliminating wasteful programs like farm subsidies, the oil depletion allowance, and weapons programs that even generals in the Pentagon say they don't want. Seem to me that the failure that some on DU see from democrats rests more on the shoulders of Nancy Pelosi and her House leadership team than anywhere else. The House under republican leadership has sent out rider laden, toxic bills that the Senate or President Obama have cleaned up. The time has come to stop republican bullshit where it starts, in the House. Democrats must attach a punishing rider to bills for every rider that republicans attach. Democrats must attach riders that strike at the largess of federal dollars that red state republicans get, even as those same republicans attempt to strip away effective programs that voters that vote democrat support.

[csziggy]

10. I don't know, CNN is framing this as a victory for the Repubs

So I am not sure how the rest of the media will slant their news.

Don Lemon was "interviewing" some right wing asshole and letting the guy claim this as a huge win for the Republicans and the Tea Party. No link - I tried to go to the CNN videos, but they are not loading for me right now.

[MacNfries]

29. csziggy, I think he was right. The Tea Party Republicans have sent a message!

csziggy, I think he was right. What regular Republicans are starting to find out, is that there is a debt to be paid for accepting support from the Tea Bag Republicans. I expect more and more Republicans to allow themselves sucked into Tea Party philosophies/agenda or find themselves being replaced by a Tea Party Republican. Corporate America is solidly behind putting these people in office for obvious reasons, and Tea Party Republicans have shown their big money backers that they mean business. And now that the ceiling on corporate donations has been removed (as of January, 2010), that's exactly what corporations are intending to do. I'm telling ya, we moderates and mild left wingers better be waking up, 'cause things are about to change.

[OHdem10]

11. Following the Media today, the Cable Channels all gave him

Kudos and declared him last nights winner. Times
ahead will get harder for him.

[bhikkhu]

14. Just as well if they take all credit for spending cuts

If we "double-dip" into another recession, they will own it.

[bluestate10]

13. Pelosi must have democrats attach riders to bills, seeking to

eliminate wasteful, republican beloved sacred cows. Harry Reid and President Obama can't be expected to continue cleaning up Pelosi's mistakes, Pelosi has to lead her caucus into a bloody knife fight with House republicans and win that fight. If Pelosi fails to lead and win that fight, democrats should throw her and the top leadership out and seek aggressive fighters to lead the democratic House caucus.

[KharmaTrain]

25. Not With The Rules Of The House...

It's truly majority rules there. They control which bills are brought up and how they're debated. They won't let Democrats attach any riders and barely give them much time to debate these regressive and obnoxious bills on the floor. The best chance to make any changes are in committee but even there the word compromise is a dirty one. And then even if an ammendment is added to a bill, the GOTB has a large enough majority to vote it down before it can be added. Another example of elections having consequences.

The Senate rules are a bit different and that is cause of the 60 vote threshold on getting almost anything passed. Unless the rushpublicans there are allowed to bloviate and make their ammendments a bill won't even make it to the floor.

It's the essential definition of dysfunctional government...

[upi402]

39. Republican Senators are unified and don't split

and too many Dems side with them to count on.

Dems could make hay standing up to Repubs now, but don't hold breath.

[bluestate10]

40. As long as democrats in the Senate number more than 41, they can

stop any bill of Supreme Court appointment. The question if the Senate count gets to that level is whether democrats are willing to fight like republicans fought when republicans had 40 senators and the democrats 60. Dumbass Senator from South Carolina, DiMint, was right when he said that a small group of unified Senators can stop legislation, Senate republicans showed that to be true.

[KharmaTrain]

42. Democrats Represent Their States...

...rushpublicans care only about party. Just follow the money. When you owe your seat to the Kochroaches and big money elite, you vote on a partyline basis. Democrats tend to reflect the states they're elected from...and at times it can be frustrating. It means folks like Mancin or Ben Nelson from predominately conservative states who will vote in that kind of manner. Albeit, Reid is a weak leader but under the current rules with a 60 vote threshold on almost any vote, you'll still need a couple GOTB'ers to jump the fence and the truth is they're too scared shit to do so. My bets are Olympia Snowe doesn't keep any tea bags in her house.

Remember, to screw things up in the Senate, all you need is 40 votes and to Pruneface's credit, he's been able to crack the whip when its mattered.

If you want a more monolithic Democratic party...a more liberal or progressive one, then it starts with getting more of those folks funded and competitive. In the end it's a numbers game. Right or wrong doesn't matter...having the votes do.

[Erose999]

46. You think Harry Reid is a stronger leader than Pelosi? Are you from Bizarro World or something? Or

is this just "opposite day" at DU?

[Blue Owl]

43. Sour d'oh

:hangover:

[calimary]

44. Well, he certainly looks the part.

Btw Blue Owl, that is HILARIOUS!

"Sour D'OH"!

:rofl: :yourock: :patriot:

[Generic Other]

47. Is that what that SMELL is???

Yuck. Scrape him off and feed him to the dogs.