Republicans are vowing that before they will agree to raise the current $14.25 trillion federal debt

[iwishiwas]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/10/government-shutdown-deal-relief-disgust_n_847111.html#262_our-cowardly-congress

04/09/2011 6:28 PM Next Up: Debt Fight Looms

With shutdown averted, the New York Times explores the next big hurdle for Congress:

Congressional Republicans are vowing that before they will agree to raise the current $14.25 trillion federal debt ceiling — a step that will become necessary in as little as five weeks — President Obama and Senate Democrats will have to agree to far deeper spending cuts for next year and beyond than those contained in the six-month budget deal agreed to late Friday night that cut $38 billion and averted a government shutdown.

Republicans have also signaled that they will again demand fundamental changes in policy on health care, the environment, abortion rights and more, as the price of their support for raising the debt ceiling.

In a letter last week, Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner told Congressional leaders the government would hit the limit no later than May 16. He outlined “extraordinary measures” — essentially moving money among federal accounts — that could buy time until July 8.

[Turbineguy]

1. Well, we knew that.

Blackmail and extortion work.

[Change Happens]

2. This will be much MUCH uglier...World markets will be effected

AND they are watching us very closely right now...

[iwishiwas]

3. It will be ugly and the working and middle class will suffer more.

[Change Happens]

13. Agreed, it is always going to fall on the little guy's head...

There are much more little guys in this country than the few super duper billionaires...etc.

[xchrom]

4. recommend

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. I want to know what Timmy means by " moving money among federal accounts "

[NutmegYankee]

6. Pull money from one dept and use it for SS or the like.

Technically he isn't changing the appropriations, the same amount of money will eventually go to the dept, but in the short term he could rob Peter to pay Paul till Peter goes broke.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. Ha..turns out the government owes the Soc. Sec. fund around 5 TRILLION.

THAT is the real crisis about "entitlement programs"..the government took in 5 TRILLION that was supposed to pay for Soc. Sec. and spent it.

"Of the nearly $14.2 trillion in debt, roughly $5 trillion is money the government has borrowed from other accounts, mostly from Social Security revenues, according to federal figures. Several major policies from the past decade when Republicans controlled the White House and Congress — tax cuts, a Medicare prescription-drug benefit and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — account for more than $3.2 trillion. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/us/politics/10debt.html

You know where there IS a big pot of untouched money?
Pension plans. Esp. Federal Employee Pension plans.
My bet is Timmy is eyeballing them, just like Carlin said.

[lib2DaBone]

7. Reactionary Republicans.. full frontal attack on the middle class......

This is a declaration of war by Congressman Paul Ryan and the financial plutocrats against the elderly, sick and working poor in America.


The USA is a "New Deal" society. 75% of the country WANTS Social Security and Medicare. How is it.. that a small, mean-spirited group of bullies and crazies (Teabaggers), (who represent only 14% of the voters..) have managed to control the entire country?

Austerity cuts DO NOT WORK. THe deficits are going to be bigger next year.

We are headed for a terrible crash folks... fasten your seat belts and stay close to the life boats.

[kentuck]

8. The opportunity is there...

and they plan on taking full advantage of it.

[Irritable Liberal]

9. We need to draw a line in the sand this time

The Democrats will have an unlikely ally in this battle - Wall Street. While the average Tea Party rep in Congress doesn't have the brain power to understand the implications of refusing to raise the debt ceiling Wall Street will be shitting bricks at the prospect.

I'm not totally averse to cutting spending but this time it has to come from cuts that don't affect the low income segment of the population. Defense cuts have to be on the table and the best place to start is on the billions we spend on outside contractors. Let the military take over some of those functions and some has to come out of weapons systems we really don't need. The message should be simple. No one can consider themselves serious about cutting spending without touching the defense budget. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out and the average American can figure that one out. A 3% cut would not hurt the military and alone would be about $30 billion.

Other areas to consider should be farm subsidies and closing some tax loopholes. Use GE and the oil companies as the poster children for that. With gas prices as high as they are that would resonate with the public. The most obscene loophole of all is the loophole that allows Hedge Fund managers to pat capital gains instead of regular personal taxes. Other fund managers don't get that same benefit. The top 25 Hedge Fund managers alone earned $22.5 billion according to the most recent figures. That alone is over $5 billion and doesn't include all those who make a paltry $100 million plus a year.

Our revenue problem is as critical as our spending problem. Federal revenues are currently under 15% of GDP. It's impossible to ever come close to balancing the budget even in the long run with that low a number. Even the Ryan plan calls for revenue at 18%.

Obama and the Democrats have to get on message now and keep hammering on that. If framed right these are easy targets, especially the oil companies. If we're going to share the pain let's fucking show that we are sharing. And lastly no more cuts in education. There's too much being cut at the state level already.

We've got the bully pulpit. Let's start using it.

[starroute]

11. Right -- they need to get the American people behind them right now

One place to start is by correcting people's misconceptions about federal spending. Polls keep showing that most Americans think huge amounts are lost to waste, spent on foreign aid, and so forth -- and they see those as painless targets for cutting.

They need to get the message that most of what the government does is essential to their own well-being -- and that what the Republicans are proposing is not only going to hurt them personally but will keep hurting their children and grandchildren.

As long as the debate is allowed to remain stuck at "the GOP wants even deeper cuts" without specifying just what those cuts are and who they will hurt, we're going to lose it -- because people see the federal government as bloated and wasteful. That is where we have to start changing minds.

[crickets]

12. You're absolutely right.

The problem lies in getting Democrats to do these things. :shrug: