I don't hate democrats. I don't think they're as bad as repubs, but

[cali]

I am frustrated and fearful. I'm frustrated by their lack of fighting spirit inability to frame the debates, as well as the corporate mindset of too many of them. I'm fearful that they will continue participating in the dismantling of the social net in order to "save it".

I'm fearful that out of party unity, few elected dems will really buck the President and will continue to allow him to set the democratic agenda. And let's face it, the agenda he's setting runs counter to many democratic values.

I'm so tired of feeling ill, day after day, when I hear what the dems have accepted, endorsed, not fought against. I wouldn't mind losing so much if there was at least a good fight against the repukes.

But there isn't.

Yours in discouragement,

cali

[kentuck]

1. It's understandable...

At the very least, put up an argument. Present a message worthy of a national Party. Simply rolling over is not acceptable.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Presiding over the death of the New Deal.

Now there is a legacy.

[cali]

4. more like lackeys to those presiding over the death of the new deal

ugh.

[dkf]

3. The problem is how do you defend spending when the country is in debt?

The only area we feel like cutting is defense and getting into Libya makes that impossible.

Taxes will go up with the expiration of the Bush cuts so to me fighting for higher taxes is moot. The expiration will pit tax receipts close to the 20% we have traditionally been at. Now we need to figure out how to cut spending to 20% of GDP.

[cali]

5. baloney. there are plenty of places to cut- yes, defense

but many more. How about the billions and billions in subsidies for oil companies or agribusiness. And as for the supposed expiration of the bush tax cuts, I have a lovely bridge to sell you.

[dkf]

12. Aren't those tax credits? They aren't cutting spending, they are raising revenue.

If the govt gives you an exemption for your mortgage interest payments that is not an expense.

[bahrbearian]

21. Tax reveue can be applied to the debt.

You can give it any name you want, but it still is simple math.

[dkf]

27. It increases revenue.

The question is if you have spending that is constantly growing will you keep on increasing taxation? At what point does everyone acknowledge that the spending is too much?

[kentuck]

6. Do you really think the Bush taxcuts will be permitted to expire?

That is gold to the Repubs.

[dkf]

13. Like this last time they will automatically expire.

I think any serious person who looks at the budget has to let them expire. Either that or they will do as Obama wants and revamp the whole thing.

But it will be obvious by then that the increases are necessary and that we need all of them, not simply for the top 2%.

[Angry Dragon]

7. The bush tax cuts are going to expire like the last time??

[dkf]

14. There was sound reasoning for not increasing taxes in a recession.

The plan was that they would be reinstated after we had recovered.

Unless you think we will still be in a recession, the rationale for keeping them isn't there unless spending is cut to a level that doesn't require more income.

[Angry Dragon]

22. Does that also take into account that you don't lower

taxes when you are at war??

This country follows no sane economic policy. It is feed by emotion and agenda.
The majority of the people passing laws that the bottom lives with have no idea what it takes to live in this country when the President considers $172,000 a modest salary.

A teacher makes $50,000 and is said to be making too much, the one that has the power to shape young minds.
And a man that goes out and talks to the press after he has been fed the words he is suppose to say. He makes $172,000 and his boss says he can understand why he wants to go out in the real world and make more money. Tell me what is wrong with this picture.

The top is out of touch with the bottom and they do not care.

You tax the money. How many jobs have been created through all these tax cuts for the top?? I do not see any.........

[Jim Warren]

8. Suggestion

Whatever you think of Michael Moore, I suggest you consider the central theme of his speech in Wisconsin.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/america-is-not-broke

America is NOT broke!

[xchrom]

10. +1

[dkf]

16. We traditionally have tax receipts at 20% of GDP. That is where spending and taxation need to be.

Now if you want to debate the composition of who pays, that is legitimate. Then it becomes a political food fight.

But the easy path to raising revenue is to let the Bush tax cuts expire. Anything other than that needs to pass the House and Senate and get to the President and you know how impossible that will be.

And if Michael Moore honestly thinks the House as composed now will just raise taxes on the rich and keep and grow a safety net then I've got a bridge to sell him.

[Jim Warren]

17. Long past food fights

...

[sabrina 1]

31. Michael Moore should be president.

He's been right about everything ever since I've been following him. The fact that the HC Ins. Corps spend millions trying to discredit him, looking for anything, gossip on his family, whatever, shows how right he is.

If he ran, for Congress, or anything, I would support him.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. The country has been in debt since 1789.

There is no justification for the draconian cuts. HUGE DEFICITS DIDNT MATTER from 2001-2008, why was that? HUGE DEFICITS DIDNT MATTER from 1981 - 1992, WHAT A COINKYDINK!

Fuck that framing and fuck everyone who regurgitates it.

GIGANTIC TAX CUTS that primarily benefited the MASSIVELY WEALTHY caused the current HUGE DEFICIT. The solution is to RESCIND THOSE FUCKING TAX CUTS.

[democracy1st]

15. +1

[dkf]

19. Huge debts don't matter until they matter.

I'm sure too many individuals have found that out the hard way.

The problem is that with insolvency or debt problems, once one person cuts you off, the others will too and then it's a feeding frenzy to pull apart your carcass.

[DCBob]

24. but it getting much bigger of late to the point of actuallly mattering.. see graph below..

I dont think any legitimate economist would say those numbers dont matter.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. You start by not letting the people who gave trillions away in tax cuts give you lectures

...about fiscal responsibility. Republicans are GETTING AWAY with sounding like they care about the deficit when they cut trillions in revenue and then advocate cutting billions in spending.

The OLD Democratic agenda, you know the one where we weren't advocating cuts in services but weren't giving away tax cuts to the rich also, THAT agenda generated 10 times less red ink than the Republican/ Tea Party one.

[dkf]

23. Frankly what I see is that no one party is interested in fiscal responsibility.

We only talk about it when we have divided government.

Democrats will always want more spending for the poor and a larger safety net for everyone, Republicans will always want less taxation on everyone especially the rich. That leads to spending under Democrats and reduction in revenue under Republicans, which gets us to where we are now.

[theophilus]

32. We've pretty much always been in debt. There are some relatively simple

fixes but they must be coupled with harder social choices. Tax the wealthy. End the Wars. Problem solved. But we must also vow to take care of the vast majority of our citizens and stop coddling the One Percenters. We might have to build government factories to put people to work building things that will actually be used in constructive ways. These things are being done elsewhere in the world. If we don't follow these examples we are boned. IMO

[calimary]

33. GO WHERE THE MONEY IS.

The rich and the megacorporations are LOADED.

I'd put all my energy into getting our money back from them.

[mochajava666]

11. Well said

[ClassWarrior]

20. I think you just spoke for the majority of DUers.

Thank you. :hug:

NGU.

[ProSense]

25. "continue participating in the dismantling of the social net"

When did Democrats participate in "dismantling of the social net"?

Here:

Obama signs veterans, caregivers legislation

Health Reform Expands Medicaid Coverage For People with Disabilities

Providing Free Preventive Care for Seniors.

Bernie Sanders: Health Care Retreat Is Beyond Comprehension (video)

Alan Grayson: What I Didn't Hear

"first major federal antipoverty effort in decades"

Federal Strategic Plan to End Homelessness

HUD MAKES AVAILABLE $61 MILLION TO SIX APPLICANTS TO PROVIDE QUALITY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, REVITALIZE NEIGHBORHOODS

Govt announces plan to reduce health disparities

Interesting details about the budget deal

Did I miss something?

[marsis]

26. Rats all

Neither party has the interests of the average person on their agenda. Why do the Dems cave? Because we are not part of their agenda. As with most things, follow the money and you'll see where their hearts are.
A far as I'm concerned, it seems we have to go with the weird uncle that just beats us as opposed to the uncle that rapes us. So we have to choose the lesser of two evils but it is a lose lose situation for the average person.

[spin]

28. I don't hate either Democrats or Republicans but I am beginning to dislike ...

all politicians.

[bvar22]

29. It is better to FIGHT and Lose.

When the Dem Leadership "compromises" (surrenders) in the spirit of Bi-Partisanship, and then declares "Victory",
they then OWN the outcome.

If they FIGHT and Lose, and the public sees them FIGHT,
then Republicans OWN the outcome.

One of the WORST outcomes from the HCR "compromise" is that the Democratic Party did not force the Republicans to accept ANY responsibility for the disaster. In 2014, when 50 Million (80Million?) Americans are forced to BUY junk Health Insurance they can't afford to use,
ALL the Republicans have to do is sit back and say, "Yep. We voted against it."

[ClassWarrior]

30. A-men.

NGU.

[Ramulux]

34. I'm guessing if you were one of the people...

personally effected by all these draconian cuts, you wouldn't have a problem saying you hate the democrats.

[pacalo]

35. Cali, thank you for stating your opinion in a classy manner. I feel the same as you. K&R.