Bill Press not a happy camper this a.m. The President caved and

[monmouth]

this was foreplay of what's coming. "We got screwed." Bill is very pro Obama and he's very disappointed...Good show. www.chicagoprogressivetalk.com...

[Kolesar]

1. He's a spelunker? eom

[Syrinx]

2. Caves? What do you mean?

[monmouth]

3. I think spelunkers do their thing in caves.....sigh...n/

[Syrinx]

4. okay I get it

sorry

[Kolesar]

5. Exactly

should be asked of the original poster, though

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

6. I don't understand this. The Republicans were not going to budge on ANYTHING!

None of these so-called Democratic Party strategists can tell me how Obama was supposed to get any bill passed through the House without giving up a lot.

[greymattermom]

8. how about

threatening to close bases in their states if they don't increase the debt limit. ft. riley any one?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. Hmmm...

Yes, that makes a lot of political sense.

:sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Atman]

11. It does make a lot of political sense. It's called hardball.

And the GOP would do it to us in a heartbeat.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

54. The problem is: The president has no power to close military bases.

And, that would NOT be hardball. That would be politcal suicide for him/The Democrats to do.

Try again.

[mkultra]

22. I agree, Punishing the people of those states is the correct course

[Ramulux]

71. He didn't need to

He should have let the republicans cause a government shutdown. Allowing the republicans to extort 78.5 billion in cuts to working families and the poor is not worth not having a government shutdown.

The republicans have lost their fucking minds and the more the democrats pretend like they are being reasonable the farther the debate in this country moves to the right.

[EstimatedProphet]

7. I listened on the commute this morning

I think he's right. Obama is "weak tight" (google it) and the repubs are playing him for everything - and we get to sign for the IOU.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

10. If he's weak, it is because he is working with a Republican/Teabagger-dominated House.

Again, someone needs to explain to me how you negotiate with a bunch of wingnut crazies? I still haven't gotten an answer to this question...

...and HOW should Obama stop a filibuster in the Senate when the Republicans are united in destroying this administration? They want you to blame Obama rather than them.

[spooky3]

15. You have top staff identify the legislative priorities of the TBers.

This should be specific and detailed.
Then you make it clear they will not get any of these in the senate, of the Pres. will veto them, if they don't agree to Dem. priorities.
You hire communication experts to help you craft the best message describing your strategy so that the public understand what you're fighting for and why,
You convene all your members and get them to hammer home a consistent message.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

26. The biggest problem Obama has is the messaging. Those other issues are purely institutional.

You have spineless Democrats who care more about reelection. It is not in their best interest to go along with the president. How do you get the recalcitrant Blue Dog/DLCers to understand that it is not in their best interest to behave Republican-lite?

The Republicans don't care if Obama vetoes legislation. They have made it clear that they want him to fail. So, anything he does, they will blame him for it.

Again, that is where the messaging comes in. The Democrats have always done a piss poor job of this.

They didn't take up the tax debate before the midterms; that was an issue that they could have won on. And I distinctly remember Obama begging them to do it, but they refused, scared of the Republicans.

So, rather than craft a message on the tax issue, they punted.

Was Obama to blame for that, other than the messaging apparatus? Or, is the entire Democratic Party to blame?

[EstimatedProphet]

16. The answer: YOU DON'T NEGOTIATE WITH THEM AT ALL

Don't negotiate with them at all. Let them shut the government down and look like jerks. That's why the weak-tight strategy isn't working. When they bluff, you are supposed to call them on their bluff, not give into the bluff.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

27. Let the government shutdown and put millions of families at risk? Even the military?

That's mightly elitist of you. People are living paycheck to paycheck. I work for the feds and am higher up on the salary chain, so I wouldn't be affected too much. But there are many federal employees who don't earn high salaries who would be affected, not to mention the economy going bust.

Shutting down the government was never an option.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. THAT would have been on the REPUKE'S shoulders. Hell yes. Let them shut it down. n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

41. Yep, it sure is elitist of me, considering I WOULD BE SHUT DOWN TOO

I would have been one of the people losing pay, and I still am for it. You go right ahead and back down to all the bullies you want.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. So, let me get this straight: You wouldn't care about anyone being hurt

so long as your principles remain intact.

That's amazing. Are you a Democrat or a Teabagger? That kind of thinking makes no better than them.

[EstimatedProphet]

43. No, what's clear is that you're elated you're still getting your paycheck.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. Of course. I'm elated that I get a paycheck and I'm elated that everyone I work with receives

one. We don't work for free, you know.

I'm also elated that government business does not stop, even for a thankless job.

I'm elated that the local economy remains intact.

I'm elated that military personnel continue to get paid.

I'm elated that you'll receive your refund check on time, if you have one.

You should be elated, too!!

[bobbolink]

59. Are you also "elated" that poor people sacrificed more so you could have all those things?

So, those of us who lost out, we should be elated?

We either don't cross your mind at all, or we just don't matter.... one or the other.

And neither one of those is going to get you votes, come election time.

[bobbolink]

65. !!!!!

Now THAT is what I call Solidarity!

:yourock: :applause: :yourock:

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. THANK YOU!!! My G-D! When will we EVER learn? You do NOT make deals

with the DEVIL. Repukes are EVIL. They stand against everything we hold dear. You CANNOT negotiate or Compromise with that! EVER.

[bobbolink]

66. Wait just a derned minit here.... You can.... for thirty pieces of silver.

:evilgrin:

[Enthusiast]

69. PLUS ONE! nt

[jillan]

17. Carrots and sticks. You dangle what is important to them as a negotiating tool to get what you want

Just like Boner did to us with Planned Parenthood.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. They wanted to "teach Obama a lesson" by doing what? Allowing MORE wingnuts into office.

Come again? It doesn't make sense. I'm happy that you get it.

If you want to push Obama to the left, for godssakes, work to get more lefties elected to office.

It's just that simple.

Too many DUers expect a "daddy figure," and that's troublesome for me. You put all your trust and faith in man, expecting him to do everything. What about our part?

Obama didn't run on a platform that he'd do everything. He ran on a "WE" platform. That's the beauty of the Democratic Party. We don't need an authoritative "Daddy Figure" telling us what to do and think. We get out there, form a grassroots coalition like what's going on now in Wisconsin, and run better candidates for office.

That's how we win.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. I'm far left. What are you accusing me of doing?

I'd like to know if I need to feel guilty about something.

[Ignis]

44. +1, but don't expect an answer.

[bobbolink]

67. You wanted a pony, dammit! You wanted a damned pony!

There. Accusation completed. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. LOL

[Hawkowl]

38. It's called a VETO!

The president is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE CONGRESS' BITCH!!! The Constitution doesn't assign the president the duties of introducing, writing or passing legislation. He has unprecedented enormous power of the imperial presidency, and refuses to even publicly voice anything but Rethuglican talking points.

He should stop rescuing the Rethuglicans with his endless betrayal of hard core democrats in the name of compromise. Better to fight and lose than negotiate the terms of our enslavement.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. Excuse me? We have THREE *separate* branches of government, not one of them more

powerful than the other. That's what "checks and balances" are for.

Second, if there is a VETO, we're then back at Square One. No budget. Gridlock. All those things you want to get done, doesn't get done

You cannot reason with wingnut assholes. Sure, you can improve the messaging, but what good does that do if you can't get anything done. (Not to mention a corporate-controlled media that creams its pants over Republicans/Teabaggers but refuses to air anything Democrats do.)

You have absolutely horrid analytical skills.

[Hawkowl]

58. First you have to win

That is what the veto is for. You break the momentum of the fascist, illogical right, and let them get what they want, i.e; no government. Then let them explain to the American people why their country no longer functions.

The veto is a CHECK AND BALANCE. Hello? What did you think it was? Were you not around when President Clinton forced the Rethuglicans hand? Did he get re-elected? Did he get things done while dealing the Rethuglicans a smashing defeat? Where is speaker Gingrich now?

It is you who have horrid analytical skills. You can't see past step one. I bet you'd give someone your lunch money every day, or else how would you get to school? Sometimes your brilliant analytical skills can be viewed as abject cowardice. That is how I think the American people will view Obama come election day.

People vote with their gut, because most people don't possess good logic and analytical skills. Certainly we are no longer allowed good information from a free press.

[badtoworse]

63. An Obama veto would have been an unmitigated disaster

He would have vetoed an bill that congressional Republicans AND Democrats agreed on. He would be going against Republicans in the House, but he would also be going against Democrats in the Senate. Once the government shut down, he would be wearing ALL the blame. With the blame resting on Obama's shoulder, how reasonable do you think the Republicans would be?

If he had vetoed this deal, he would have wound up with an even worse deal in the end.

It will be interesting to see how the debt ceiling is handled. My prediction: More and deeper cuts for a minimal rise in the ceiling.

[Hawkowl]

64. A difference in strategy

I disagree, but you may be correct. If you are correct, then I believe that Obama really is in a no-win situation, because I don't think the deals he has made will be sufficient to motivate a big enough turnout for him to win re-election. Let's hope I am wrong on all counts.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

68. The VETO is a "check and balance," but then what? Again, you're back at Square One.

Finish the scenario. Put on your thinking caps. You're not dealing with a moderate Bob Dole-like Republican. You're dealing with wingnut Teabaggers and a Speaker who admits that he's in lockstep with them.

You now have threats in the Senate that the Republicans will be unified against any action...meaning...they'll do what they have done now for over two years: FILIBUSTER.

So, what do you do?

We saw with our own two eyes that Americans blamed the Democrats. Your average American doesn't know what a filibuster is and could give a shit. The Republicans/Teabaggers KNOW this. They KNOW that Americans don't know anything about Senate procedures. All they know is that Americans blame the PARTY IN CONTROL when things don't get done, and that's exactly what happened in November.

So, the president exericeses his VETO pen. Then what? Go back and deal again with the Republicans/Teabaggers who have already said that they won't back down? How do you reason with these people? You can't!!

[Armstead]

48. The perennial Excuse-athon gets really tiresome

Now the GOP House makes a convenient excuse for not even trying...Before that it was something else......Always a. Excuse why we have to follow the GOP lead.

Strange how when the GOP had nothing they didn't whine. They still set the terms.

[Tatiana]

49. For the love of all that's holy... how do you negotiate with a bunch of wingnut crazies?

YOU DON'T!

You treat them like domestic terrorists and you don't negotiate with them if they aren't bringing anything constructive to the table.

You let the government be shut down. The Republicans take a HUGE political hit and reluctantly come back to the table with a more reasonable proposal.

You wait them out. You show them that you are willing to take a principled stand on behalf of the American people.

We've never tried that tactic before. Maybe we should have tried that instead of consistently caving. We know that caving (Obama's version of "compromise") means our side has lost. Seems like we should try a different tactic.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

53. You allow the government to shutdown. How long do you propose that it stay shut down?

Just curious about your line of reasoning...

[Tatiana]

55. As long as it takes. The Republicans would not have let a shutdown last for long.

It's just like the debt ceiling issue. Republicans threatened not to raise it. It's another hostage-taking tactic. They will raise it, if only for selfish reasons. Democrats should be negotiating from that standpoint... that Republicans will raise the debt ceiling.

My husband works for the government. He would have been without a paycheck, but bottom line is that at some point you have to stand up to the bully. We understand that and would not have blamed anyone but the Republicans for the shutdown.

[Bake]

51. You call their bluff.

Boner hasn't forgotten what happened to the Newtster in the last shut-down, and he sure as hell doesn't want that to happen to him!

Bottom line, play chicken with them. They won't shut it down.

Bake

[bobbolink]

57. Fat chance. It was much easier to take it out on poor people. We are expendable.

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. Out of sight, Out of mind.

It's all so easy for them because they aren't the ones suffering. They ALL lack empathy.

[bobbolink]

61. I just had an email from an impoverished person saying almost exactly the same thing.

It tears my heart out.

I don't think "progressives" have any idea just how down poor people are right now, and that includes people who have been DUers for a long time.

The hopelessness and sense of helplessness is overwhelming.

Middleclass people dont' seem to have any idea how much their lack of attention to us is causing people to give up.

I hear it, and feel so damned helpless. I have nothing to hand out to bring up their spirits.

:cry:

[Exilednight]

75. And another part of the problem is that the president is giving away our social safety net one

piece at a time. The poor are suffering a slow and painful death while the rest of the population cries about how hard Obama is working at saving them and not getting any help.

There's times I wonder where this party's priorities really are.

[Exilednight]

74. You make your case to the people. The President of the United States has the biggest and

loudest bully pulpit in the world. He goes on TV after a shutdown of government and tells the American people how the president does not negotiate with hostage takers.

[andym]

62. A weak-tight player in poker will probably lose a lot of money

you may have a point-- too cautious and too transparent.

[earthside]

12. Man, listen to Eleanor Holmes Norton!

She is livid over what Pres. Obama has done.

Of course, Pres. Obama really sold out D.C. with the abortion and voucher riders.

I'm tellin' ya ... Democrats are in BIG trouble.

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Love her. She always says it like it is.

It's nice to know there's at least a few LIBERAL Dems in Congress who aren't happy about this.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

13. Just listened to his guest, Eleanor Holmes-Norton

and she ain't happy either. Her words were to the effect, whatever Democrats were at the bargaining table on this last showdown on the shutdown...NEED TO BE PULLED BACK! And that if she were in the Republican leadership, there should have been a Saturday unifying meeting whose theme was, "We've got the Democrats on the run now...onto the budget ceiling and the 2012 budget."

[Iwillnevergiveup]

14. Parting shot from Bill Press

"Republicans have learned that if they push hard enough and hold out long enough, President Obama will fold."

[treestar]

18. These are people determined to feel "screwed."

Then they should not have sat back and let a Republican house be elected.

:nopity"

[Renew Deal]

19. It seems both sides have this syndrome.

[EstimatedProphet]

21. Oh bullshit

Writing people off who are disappointed as just being those who didn't bother to vote is ridiculous.

[treestar]

45. I write off unreasonable opinions

People who are never happy with anything, determined to be victims, are not reasonable people you can deal with.

[Tatiana]

50. You must not be a female who lives in D.C.

Otherwise, I'd say that's exactly what you are... screwed by both the Republicans and Democrats.

[Ramulux]

72. You obviously dont care

because you aren't going to be effected by all these cuts. I'm sure a poor family who relies on LIHEAP to keep their family warm will likely have a different take on these massive cuts. But I guess all the poor people whose lives are going to be irreversibly changed by these cuts are just "determined to feel screwed".

and how exactly did Bill Press allow a republican house to be elected? The guy has a radio show where he was encouraging people to GOTV everyday leading up to the mid-terms.

[nichomachus]

20. Obama did not "cave"

In order to cave, you have to have principles to surrender. Obama wouldn't know a principle if it came up and bit him on the ass.

[Monique1]

24. I was against a shutdown

too many people would be hurt if it shutdown except for those elected officials.

[EstimatedProphet]

25. I am one of the people that would be hurt by a shutdown, and I was for it!

When you have to draw a line, you have to draw a line, period.

[bobbolink]

28. And wasn't Bill one of those who told us Obama would be GOOD for poor people?

Is he ready to apologize for that?

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Don't hold your breath.

At least he's now seeing the light...unlike many BO supporters.

[bobbolink]

34. So, if we wait several years, Bill *might*, MIGHT* have enough interest in poor folk to even mention

us?

I'll say it again.. right now, poor people are imploding. They are suffering in silence, and killing themselves when the suffering gets too much.

Eventually, if continually IGNORED, they/we will EXPLODE. And it won't be pleasant.

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. We can only hope he has seen the light and will use the powerful platform

he has to speak out for the poor. IMCPO, anyone with the privileged to have a microphone near their mouth has an obligation to speak for those with no voice. It's their DUTY.

[bobbolink]

37. Goddess, what a PERFECT statement!

"anyone with the privileged to have a microphone near their mouth has an obligation to speak for those with no voice. It's their DUTY. "

Beautifully, BEAUTIFULLY put! Thank you! :yourock:

It is, after all, the PEOPLES' airwaves!

Your timing is perfect... I have been thinking this week that black and brown people, and gay people and women.... all have their spokespeople on the airwaves.

Poor people don't, and because of our SYSTEM, never will.

It IS, indeed, their DUTY!

Thanks! You have just officially Made. My. Day. :pals:

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. :)

:hug: Happy I made your day. :) Just speaking the TRUTH.

[bobbolink]

40. Can you help us get a writing campaign through to Bill Press?

Our few voices won't be heard, but if enough start insisting, *maybe* he will now hear.

Thanks. I suddenly have a bit more energy. :hug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

56. Done! I just sent him an email. Here's a link for anyone wishing to help:

http://www.billpressshow.com/contact-us/

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. "The president caved..." = Water is wet. Sun rises in the East.

[Dappleganger]

70. You're right, he's ver pro-Obama.

After the healthcare bill was passed he was making all kinds of excuses as to how great it was and I noted that he was nearly giddy and devoid of discussing the facts of how what was passed was actually detrimental to most Americans w/out healthcare.