End employer based health insurance

[wilt the stilt]

if we really want to finally change the system make everyone buy their own insurance. It's the only way that the idiots(repubs) in this country will ever understand how we are getting screwed. They only understand money coming out of their pockets and when they start paying over $1,000 per month for no coverage and getting denied insurance for preexisting conditions will the light bulb go on. I used to buy my insurance as a self employed person so i know.

[Cutatious]

1. The US government is an employer and provides insurance

So by ending employer provided insurance it would require everyone to buy their own and there would be no "free" insurance for anyone. Until it can be shown that every able person in America is contributing to the insurance pool, there will be no easy way to get everyone covered.

[TBF]

2. Start with the US Government employees - including Congress. nt

[wilt the stilt]

5. It's not the low level employess

who are civil servants that matter. Most of congress are millionaires so they don't care and campaign contributions will pay for their health insurance. You need to start with private industry.

[Scruffy1]

6. They now pay 45% of the premium

Postal Service is a little better at 40%. My share went to nearly six hundred a month. So why is everyone buying the right wing BS about government employees getting extravagant benefits? My Congressman actually pays more than I do. And by the way the Federal Employees Retirement System gives a pension of 1% a yaer (30 years equal 30 per cent). This is partly funded by a payroll deduction.

[Scruffy1]

9. I remember how this dirty deal went down

There was a large movement for single payer after medicare was established led by Walter Reuther and others. Even Nixon endorsed it, but after the insurance company lobbyist started buying off Senators from both parties, it was decided to subsidize the health insurance companies by giving companies tax break for buying employee health insurance. Of course, it wasn't such a big deal in the 70's when you could get coverage for around $100 a month
and medical drugs weren't such a large part of medical costs. Even then we could see that this was the beginning of a massive escalation of health care costs simply because before medicare and broad based health insurance there just wasn't the money there in health care.

Obviously, putting more money into the system led to great advances in medicine, but since the whole business works on a gross dollars basis there is no incentive to manage for cost effective approaches and preventive medicine. As long as we have a for profit system no mere insurance reform is going to be all the answer, but it is a start. All health care employees should be adequately paid, but we need to take the profit motive completely out of the system.

[TBF]

13. My husband works in the private sector (I am home with young kids right now) -

we pay over $1000 in premiums per month for healthcare (including dental and eyecare) for a family of four. That is before the deductibles and copays. I don't think it's good anywhere.

[Phentex]

3. Look, it's starting to happen to "them" too...

They are being denied services and it's finally starting to dawn on them that something is wrong. Of course I hear Obama being blamed and I am quick to point out that this started before Obama even ran for President. They want trickle down? Well, the insurance companies are finally peeing on them.

It's funny how quickly they decide something is broken once THEY are the ones being affected. Wait until more and more of the "little" people drop out altogether and see what the whiners think when their rates go up.

[RegieRocker]

4. They have helped fuel this already with the eliminating

Unions. A lot of employer health care is crappy and they make money off of it. Think dead peasant insurance.

[WinkyDink]

7. Health-care, as with national security, should be financed by taxes.

Which affects citizens the most, daily, punishingly? THE NEED FOR HEALTH-CARE.

WE DO NOT NEED NAPOLITANO'S FASCIST INSANITY.

[TBF]

14. I agree, and you'd think companies would like it too - they wouldn't have to deal with it

and could compete with the other countries out there that do the same thing.

[RickFromMN]

8. Is employer provided health insurance slowly being eroded anyway?

I read conflicting information on the Internet.
I'm not sure what is happening, so I ask this as a question.

I read, somewhere, employer provided health insurance is lower
than it has been in fifteen years.

I read, elsewhere, people say employer provided health insurance is alive and well.

I suspect, but don't have proof, the following will happen:
1) more employees will be temps not covered by employer provided health insurance

2) Employers provided health insurance, as part of a benefit, to attract employees.
With this recession, the work force market is an employer's market.
Employers don't have to compete as hard to get employees and can offer less.

3) Employers used to offer pension plans as a way to attract employees.
In some industries, high technology, for instance, 401Ks have replaced
pensions...perhaps large, older high technology companies such as IBM still
offer pensions, but most younger companies do not.

4) In a global economy, the cost of providing health insurance is less in
a number of foreign countries making foreign employees more attractive.

I believe companies will continue to hire more foreign workers.

Either foreign employees are covered by government-run health plans, such
as employees in most developed countries in Europe and Japan, or
foreign employees, such as those in developing countries, don't feel they
have the leverage to demand health insurance.

5) I believe, but lack proof, companies will cut health insurance benefits
to compete with foreign companies.

6) I believe, but lack proof, there is a trend to outsource work to
third party companies, with a number of third party companies located
in developing countries, so companies no longer have cheap labor.
Executives and highly paid professionals will still be treated well.

7) I believe, the lessening of labor unions, reduces the bargaining power
of cheaper labor. Cheaper labor can't negotiate health insurance benefits
or other benefits.

The United States was the "center" of the world after World War 2.
Europe and Japan were devastated. South America and Africa were still developing.
India was still a developing country. China was still a developing country.
The Soviet Union focused on a strong military, but was otherwise, a developing country.

The United States is becoming less important to the world economy.
We are still a very large consumer, but other countries are catching up.
China recently become the largest auto market in the world.

We can no longer lead the world economy, unchallenged.
If companies, in other countries, don't have to provide health insurance,
our companies will stop providing health insurance, except to executives.

As I say, I don't have sufficient proof for my beliefs...but suspect this will happen.
This might make for a good college research project. I wonder if any college has done such a project.

[TBF]

15. Yes, I believe that's true -

the problem is that in other countries there is basic healthcare covered by the State, in this country we are going to see many just drop off from having coverage. Many are there already.

[NNN0LHI]

10. You are not a union member are you?

We went on strike and took less pay over decades to get our medical coverage.

And now you want to take away what we worked for all our life so you can have yours for free?

Guess again, pal.

Don

[Statistical]

12. How about remove employer based coverage and require employers to

pay the exact amount the coverage cost them as wages.

[NNN0LHI]

19. As long as you can guarantee that amount will be enough money ...

... to pay for the same coverage somewhere else that I have now there would be no problem. Keep in mind that at our ages my wife and I both have pre-existing conditions out the wazoo.

Another variable is that my employer self-insures too. No corrupt middle-men like insurance brokers or that crap getting their fingers in the pie for doing nothing. They just hire Blue Cross to process the claims.

Think it could be done?

Don

[Statistical]

11. I have very good employer based insurance and I agree 100%.

End empoyer based coverage, require employers to give the funds what were used (per capita) to fund the plan to employees. Let them buy coverage.

Support for a public option to control costs and keep insurance companies "honest" would skyrocket. Everyone would have a stake in the game. Everyone shops from same insurance exchange, everyone pays the sames rates, everyone has access to public option.

As an example people are complaining about double digit rates but my employer kept the employee share the same. The "problem" doesn't exist for me. Now I like to consider myself informed an DU helps that so I am aware of the problem but most people aren't. Out of sight out of mind.

Selfishly I like my current benefits from my employer, but honestly I know we will NEVER see comprehensive care as long as the employer based system exists. Period. Roughly 50% of Americans have employer based coverage, and maybe half of that is "pretty good or good" insurance. As long as they (and me) are insulated convicing the majority of Americans this is a do or die issue will NEVER happen.

[TBF]

16. Really good post - I agree. nt

[tavalon]

17. What, and end another form of wage slavery?

I think not!

:sarcasm:

[stray cat]

18. That what the GOP plan is