Someone give me the straight story: Is the Japanese meltdown affecting the US?

[Taverner]

As in, is there radiation that is pouring into our water systems and on our food supplies?

And will using reverse osmosis filter out the deadlies?

[no_hypocrisy]

1. IMO, the question is will we be told if there is danger.

My guess is we won't.

[Taverner]

2. I don't think they will tell us anything

Someone here on DU has to know a little bit about Nuclear Fission though...

ON EDIT: I mean I haven't got a clue - until recently I thought one mined for plutonium :shrug:

[Thunderstruck]

35. "...until recently I thought one mined for plutonium"

:rofl: Yea, I saw that.

At least you can laff at yourself! :bounce:

[Taverner]

40. Hey not everyone knows where Plutonium comes from

Do you know what an inode is?

[DJ13]

6. One way to tell if theres any danger

If national politicians on speaking tours, selling books, or fundraisers make their visits to the west coast as short as possible.

[Taverner]

9. LOL yes true that

[hedgehog]

11. As far as being told goes, here are the possible situations:

1. We are told, and told what steps to take to limit exposure.

That's the ideal situation.

2. We are not told, but there is nothing we can do to limit exposure.

Inevitably, some rumors will spread.

3. We are told, but there is nothing we can do to limit exposure.

Sucks to be us, but at least rumors will be limited to phony cures.

4. We are not told, even though steps can be taken to limit exposure.

A rather stupid governmental response, besides rumors will always spread.

FWIW - Homeland Security attempted a few weeks back to put out info regarding steps to protect people from a dirty bomb. Many castigated Homeland Security for offering this info on the grounds it was being done to increase support for a nuclear arsenal. So, when government officials told people how to protect themselves, they were accused of having ulterior motives.

[madokie]

39. Not a word will we be told

until we start dropping like flies and then I'm not so sure they'll tell us anything.
Personally I think we just about have to be getting some of the fallout from fuckyoushima even all the way to oklahoma and beyond.

[cleanhippie]

3. Define "affecting".

Depends on who you ask, and what you mean by affecting.

[Taverner]

5. Is our water safe to drink? Is our milk safe to drink?

And safe from a standpoint of radiation - not other stuff

[Snoutport]

12. notice you got called "ridiculous" for even asking.... it is fair to ask for updates

I've posted a few nuclear threads and have never had more people call me ridiculous and hysterical.

Anybody who has ever had a goldfish bowl understands how a closed environment (like a planet) works. The pollution all swirls around and spreads out but every day it gets a little more polluted and a little more toxic. Pretty simple to me.

[cleanhippie]

21. Who called him ridiculous for asking?

[Taverner]

32. I don't remember the poster, but basically it was "how dare you ask a stupid question!"

I know next to nothing about Nuclear Science. I probably know more about Quantum Mechanics than Nuclear Science - and that's saying a lot (since nobody knows what's really going on with QM)

[cleanhippie]

22. Again, it depends on who you ask and who you trust to provide you with accurate info.

Considering the myriad of posts on this subject, with no clear consensus, DU does not seem like a place to get a good answer on this one.

Many posters, to their credit, supply links to support their claims, and you can look at that and see just where that info came from and make up your own mind.
Other posters, simply give their emotional opinion (as you can see in this thread in several places) with no facts or supporting evidence.


This certainly is one area where YOU have to do your own research and come up with your own answer.

[FBaggins]

4. Nope

Except to the extent that it causes hysteria. :)

More completely... yes, there is radiation (or more properly, radioactive material) that is "pouring" into our water/food. But the amount is so ridiculously tiny that it isn't worth talking about.

[Taverner]

8. Is Europe in any danger from this?

Some European governments are telling folks to hunker down

[FBaggins]

10. Not even a little bit.

Some European governments are telling folks to hunker down

I don't think that's correct, though it's certainly possible. What I have seen is a French NGO saying that the threat was no longer insignficant... but it is regardless of what they say.

[Taverner]

13. OK - thanks. One last thing...

If I wanted to read up on this and become more knowledgeable, what would you suggest for the layman?

[FBaggins]

15. The Health Physics Society does a pretty good job.

http://www.hps.org/

http://www.hps.org/fukushima/

[LaPera]

19. And how do you know this? Exactly how much is in our water/food & who told you

Where do you get your info and why do you believe what you are told?

Ever heard the term used constantly in the sixties, "Question Authority" well, there's insightful valid reasoning behind why that phase was started & used so frequently!

NOW more than ever!

[FBaggins]

20. Detected levels have been reported from multiple areas, but that isn't important

People seem to think that there's just random chance here. A reactor somewhere went bad so there could be radiation in our water supply. Government sources are not to be trusted (because they would lie to us if the news were bad), so we feel perfectly justified just imagining any level of danger that our paranoia requires.

If someone changes his oil in western NY and spills a cup of the dirty oil onto the ground, SOME of it will eventually end up in the Chesapeake Bay. But if you see reports of oil levels from around his property... and the local water supply... and the streams in the area... you can be assured that the level huundreds of miles away in VA will be much lower.

The level (for instance) recently reported in a PA water supply was in the single-digit level of pico curies per liter.

That's trillionths of a curie.

[Snoutport]

7. I've noticed it has gone silent on the "radiation in the US front".

Nobody is talking about it and they should be.

[KoKo]

42. I've read some stuff about not eating "long leaf veggies, cheese or milk from CA."

but, it's hard to know the truth of anything these days when you've got the Nuclear Industrial Complex warring with the Organic, Fresh Food Industry and Governments who are always suspect of telling the truth.

I'm just buying canned collard, turnip and mustard greens that are from before this...and frozen...hoping that whatever is coming will "air out" a bit before I guy fresh again. I'm East Coast...and don't know what I'd think if I was in CA, WA or Oregon. But, whatever it is will be going all around the world. I just figure...I'll try to get through the Summer on canned goods for veggies that aren't grown locally here...and pass up CA.

Who knows.. We will all be getting some of it some way or the other..and there's enough stress we live under these days that maybe we just need to be not eating seafood or sushi...and worry less about the rest. :shrug:

[RC]

14. Relax. If it bleeds, it leads, even if they have to hype the BS to do so.

The radiation by the time what little does gets here, is low level, really low level. Most of the 'damage' this far away, is in the form of hype driven paranoia designed to scare people, not the radiation itself. Fear mongering, in other words.
The story of people in Hawaii getting radiation sickness is a case in point. BS, it is the flu, which is very common there because of the tourists trade.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. There is no safe lecvel for radiation exposure, so simple answer is yes

Think of it this way. If someone went outside and fired a bullet up into the shy is a sparcely settled rural area, is there a danger that bullet could fall down on and kill someone? What if he took a submachine gun and waved it around shooting into the sky? What if he lived in the suburbs? What if he lived in NYC? What if two or three of four etc other people did the same thing?

The longer that reactor leaks radioactivity the more "bullets" are fired, but here thousands of miles away we are in a rural area so to speak. I am talking only about atmospheric exposure now of course, not possible radioactive contamination of sea food etc.

The risk increases somewhat when major episodes or radioactive releases happen while the wind blows west over the Pacific. The risk increases again if it is raining in America while that happens. The radioactive iodine decomposes fairly quickly, other isotopes are slower.

It all adds up, but slowly unless there is an explosive release of radioactive material that makes it into the jet stream. Even then it is mych like nuclear fallout from H bomb tests. Like bullets shot into the air, few actually land on people's heads. But the risk for the person who is hit by one is of course massive. The more it happens the more exposure to that risk we all have.

[Voice for Peace]

34. thanks for that analogy, it's helpful.

[Demeter]

17. Not Enough, I'm Afraid

It would take the Last Trump to stop some people on their paths of destruction.

[Rex]

18. I think the situation is worse than they are telling us.

Why? Well, for starters when this all started DU was flooded with experts on nuclear fission telling all of us we are stupid idiots and to go crack open a textbook and learn something. Next it was we are stupid for even thinking about it, go out and shop. Later on the experts seemed to be stfu and staying out of the very threads they called people stupid in...wonder why? Now, you don't see ANY of the experts from those weeks howling about how stupid we all are and how safe America is. None. What happen to all the nuclear experts? They were proven wrong, week after week and FINALLY stfu and sat back down.

So now, thankfully all we get is the rare "radiation is safe" rah rah crowd post...they all had to eat crow and still have heaps of it left over...guess they are still eating.

I dunno how good/bad things are here in America, but don't trust a thing any 'expert' tell you here on DU. They all seem to have a case of stfuidess.

[jeff47]

25. We're staying away because saying the same thing over and over again is tedious. (nt)

[girl gone mad]

31. It was pretty disgusting, really.

Many of these people seemed to lack basic scientific training, but were quick to proclaim personal expertise. I don't go into internet forums and pretend I'm a medical doctor. Why do people think it's okay to pose as physicists or engineers in an effort to deceive others? Incredibly unethical.

[uppityperson]

36. "What happen to all the nuclear experts?" A very vociferous one was banned

[CountAllVotes]

23. click on this link

and view this map and tell me that we have nothing to worry about!

http://www.woweather.com/weather/news/fukushima?LANG=us&VAR=niluhemis133&HH=0&LOOP=1

:scared: damn right I am!

:kick: & recommend.

[robdogbucky]

24. Gee, I noticed the shills did not infect my post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x867280


Hmmmm. Wonder why?

Maybe too many links to scientific data to smear, eh?


Radiation from Japan reaches B.C. shores, Simon Fraser University Media Release:

… The jet stream is carrying the radiation from Japan to North America. Most of the radioactivity disperses in the atmosphere and falls over the Pacific Ocean on its way over, but some of it has now reached the west coast, falling down with rain, and mixing with seawater. It’s also accumulating in seaweed.

The rainwater tested was collected at SFU’s campus on Burnaby Mountain and in downtown Vancouver, while seaweed samples were collected in North Vancouver near the Seabus terminal. Researchers began monitoring rainwater earlier this month but did not see the signature for iodine-131 in samples taken March 16 and March 18. However, they did detect the radioisotope’s signature in samples from March 19, 20 and 25.

Here are the results from the tests (measured in decays of iodine-131 per second per litre of rainwater – Bq/l):

* March 18: 0 (2) Bq/l
* March 19: 9 (2) Bq/l
* March 20: 12 (2) Bq/l
* March 25: 11 (2) Bq/l
http://enenews.com/recent-radioactivy-testing-vancouver-canada-shows-iodine-131-rainwater-almost-100-times-above-drinking-water-limit


Pray for Japan, the worst is yet to come there.

Remember, radiation doesn't leave you once it is inside you.


The coverup continues.

[FBaggins]

30. Wonder why? Perhaps because it's clearly a waste of time?

Maybe too many links to scientific data to smear, eh?

The "scientific data" says clearly that there is no danger. 11 Bq/L is something to panic about? For contamination with an 8-day half-life?

Remember, radiation doesn't leave you once it is inside you.

Ridiculously wrong in two major ways. "Radiation" is gone once it strikes something. Radioactive elements Do, in fact, "leave you". The rate at which they do so varies with the element involved. Some (like plutonium) can last a very long time... some are gone quite quickly.

The element under discussion here is Iodine 131. It's simply wrong to say it "doesn't leave you".

[Altoid_Cyclist]

37. Don't feel bad.

I had two people here tell me that the F@@@ing fracking taking place in this area is completely safe. They said that anyone who worries about it just isn't as edeeecated as they.

Now we have exploding wells, exploding houses, flammable water supplies, radioactive water supplies, large areas of forest fragmented to hell and back, carcinogens and toxins being released where children are exposed to them every day and lots more goodies. Should I mention that this is AFTER fracking started?

What a freaking shock it was to find out that the edeeecated expert works for one of the worst companies doing the fracking in PA. Oh...and by the way, they live in Texas so of course it doesn't bother them to destroy eastern states with their Halliburton chemicals and methods.

Remember all of the "experts" claiming that the Deepwater Horizon was nothing to worry about? The experts(shills) will always defend themselves and their business despite the conflict of interest.

Rant over...........that felt good.

[animato]

26. Here's a debate from Democracy Now with Helen Caldicott and Monbiot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb5HItRpDY8

[animato]

27. Starting at 2:30 Caldicott makes the case that we can ditch Nuclear Energy right now

There are alternatives, it can be done.

[Voice for Peace]

33. thanks for posting this!

has it been posted in the videos forum?

[animato]

41. Please post it if you'd like

I think that I have to be here for a while, make x number of posts? before posting in that forum.

[Voice for Peace]

44. done.. I posted it earlier when I saw it wasn't up.

it was a great show.. I think Caldecott got to him - that he's probably rethinking his position.

[dixiegrrrrl]

28. Here are some links from a DU discussion of earlier this am,

plus some links that I found that I am book marking.
earlier discusson:
Japan Set to Extend Nuclear Evacuation Zone
( many comments, links in this thread)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4808696

and



2 arguments about the "don't worry, be happy: meme:

1. "No more radiation that flying in an airplane"
flight crews have higher rates of breast and skin cancer.:
http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20031021/flight...
From a 2003 article, tho google has lots of less reputable links.
In this article, they are trying to figure out WHY the high cancer rate/
( bitterly laughing at this, I am)

2. "radiation is detected at low levels, no danger"
Bioaccumulation increases the concentration of many contaminants as one moves up the food chain. Beef is much higher in dioxins than cattle feed and tuna fish have much higher mercury than their marine environment. Radioactive iodine, cesium, and strontium, all beta emitters, become concentrated in the food chain because of bioaccumulation. At the top of the food chain, of course, are humans, including fetuses, and human breast milk.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/51585989-82/nuclea...


And

good summary of the Japan Problem:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/08/japan.nuclear.crisis/

bottom line:

If you believe that any amount of radiation in your food, water, and body is not good for you,
and it bothers you that the governments are now setting "acceptable levels" for cesium in said food, air, water for you, ( see above, re: bioaccumulation)
yeah, we have a problem, it is not going away real soon, it might get worse, and we keep building nuke plants with no
"worse case " damage controls, just as we keep letting BP drill with the same non-functional blow out preventer, as Rachel pointed out so well last week.

[Gregorian]

29. I guess it depends on how far a Cesium 137 isotope can travel. And how many it takes to cause diseas

With a half-life of 30 years, it's here for a long time. In the dirt, water, fish, birds. Does it take one particle to cause cancer? What are the modes of transportation?

It's not good.

[uppityperson]

38. Universities come through in monitoring for radiation vs Gvt sources

I read an article about UW in Seattle, also about monitoring going on at (some university) in Berekley, CA and Vancouver BC, that they are all monitoring wtf is going on, while gvt sources are limiting what info they release. Doing a search on those might tell someone something. I had the links last week but feel like crap today and am not spending energy to find them, but they should be easily found.

I'd trust them before official gvt releases

[Sabriel]

43. What everyone forgets is that it continues to add to the total, daily

Yes, by-products of Fukushima have been measured in rainwater, in milk, and in city water supplies. It's in the food chain, clearly.

And keep in mind that this wasn't a one-time event that stopped, and now we're seeing the effects. The plant continues to pollute, even as I type these words.

So in response to your question, yes, it is affecting the U.S. and everyone else in the fishbowl.

FUD posters can say all they want about "teeny amounts" that aren't harmful, but I predict--sadly for us all--that they'll be proven to be off-base.

I hope I'm wrong.

[BillyJack]

46. +1

[musette_sf]

45. So, it was absolutely beautiful yesterday when I took a walk

along the beach at Half Moon Bay.

And I asked myself the same questions as you.