Alan Simpson was just on Tweety's show and he

[doc03]

is talking about means testing for Medicare and SS. When these a--holes talk means testing just what kind of income do they consider rich. For instance a person that worked a Union job and has a pension or they saved some money in an IRA. Will they be punished for being rich?

[hlthe2b]

1. Count your blessings...

just sayin.... I seem to be surrounded by those who are looking at begging for cat food if they lose their job or tried to retire, having lost most of their retirement to Wall Street.

[doc03]

5. I remember having a conversation with a buddy at work years

ago when our company just came out with the 401K. I thought he was being pessimistic when he said, you watch we will bust our ass and save for our retirement and when we retire we will be punished for it. It is starting to look like my buddy is going to be right after all.

[blunderbuss]

10. we do count our "blessings" but we dont want to be penalized

or singled out because of it . i pay alot into ss because of my "blessings" and i dont want those benefits cut.

[hlthe2b]

11. Neither do those whose 401Ks are non-existant or bankrupt...

We all need ss to stay intact, including my friends who have not been as fortunate. Do you not realize that? THEY need it EVEN more.

[blunderbuss]

29. no where did i suggest that they get cut

i

[doc03]

14. +1

[Thunderstruck]

2. Notice the chattiness at the end when they talk about having dinner together and

mentioning each others wife by name?

I don't know about the rest of you, but it irritates that shit out of me that these media people are that chummy with the people they are supposed to be holding accountable.

[hatrack]

25. Best buddies, I'm sure - Matthews bought a house on Nantucket for $4.4 million

And he and Timmeh used to like to hang out together with Jack Welch, who has a home there as well.

Yeah, afflicting the comfortable - that's our Tweety!

:silly:

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071306.shtml - near the bottom of the page.

[Poboy]

30. Yep, same thing with Enormous head Tweety and 'hot tub' Tom Delay.

[gratuitous]

3. It's an attractive little lie, isn't it?

But means testing leads to Social Security becoming an "entitlement" for the "poor," and as such, ripe for the cutting whenever a budget crunch can be conjured up. After all, if those poor people had just made better career choices 40 years ago, they wouldn't be so dependent on social security now. Tough toenails for them!

No, if means testing is implemented, this won't happen today or even tomorrow, but it surely will happen soon. And while not even Paul Ryan is stupid enough to mess with current recipients, that hasn't stopped the proposal being made for people under 55 years of age, apparently in the hope that people far enough removed from retirement won't fight for their benefits until it's too late.

[doc03]

6. It seems most of the younger generation has been

brainwashed to think SS won't be there for them anyway. It's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, They figure it won't be there anyway so why bother fighting for it.

[tularetom]

4. They're already doing it

In 2007 I sold a piece of property and had a sizeable capital gain on the sale. In 2008 I was notified by the Social Security Administration that (due to our higher AGI on our 2007 tax return) my Medicare Part A and B premiums would increase from about $100 to $200 monthly. My wife's premiums also increased by the same amount.

In 2008 our income had reverted to its previous (lower) level where it has remained. But did our Medicare premiums get reduced in 2009 to reflect this? Hell no, they didn't. In fact they stayed at $200 monthly (apiece) until the first of 2011.

I don't mind paying more for the year in which I had higher income. But I sorta resent paying more for two years after my income has dropped back.

[doc03]

8. Tell me about it! You're right, my pension puts me over the

the income limit for a single person besides being taxed on my pension it makes some of my SS taxable. Today if I withdraw money from my IRA it is effectively taxed at about 44%. Go figure the top rate is what 35%?

[Bravo Zulu]

7. He don't have any skin in the game,

but he sure wants to take our little bit away!

[Atman]

9. I'm not opposed to this.

Simpson, BTW, was brilliant. I'd be using some of those sound bites in every Dem ad if I could. Anyway, you're right about "what is rich," but it's beside the point. I am fortunate enough that I can afford to pay more, as are millions of Americans. I don't buy it for minute that people will stop trying to earn money if they know it will affect their benefits a couple of decades later. Human nature doesn't work that way, but Republican greed does. If you're making a million bucks, you should pay for most of your own health care. If you're making $200,000, you should at least contribute more than a guy making $40,000. How much more, I don't know. But the concept just seem unreasonable to me.

The GOP is always talking about the welfare sponges and the peasant classes who are sucking up valuable resources. Well goddammit, who is actually "wasting" resources, the guy who has nothing to begin with, just trying to feed his family, or the guy who is already sitting fat yet still taking money from the government? The GOP's priorities are based in GREED, nothing more.

[doc03]

13. I am single and they start taking back my SS with

any income over $16000. Would you consider me so rich I should pay back the pension I worked hard for to get Medicare. That's what worries me, just what income level are they going to set the limit at?

[Cleita]

16. There shouldn't be any limits set because it's insurance.

Everyone pays into it and at the right time everyone is entitled to the benefits they paid for.

[SharonAnn]

21. So, you took Early Benefits from Social Security. That's the cost.

[doc03]

24. Early benefits? Taking early benefits has absolutely nothing

to do with taxes on SS because you get a pension or an IRA. Yes if you work for wages they take back one dollar for very two you make over $14000 I think, I don't work I am talking about pension.

[Cleita]

15. Because the guy who pays into it deserves to get

access to the benefits if he needs health care, just like you pay for car insurance and when you have an accident you can access the benefits. Should car insurance also be means tested? If we extended Medicare to everyone, every one who pays into it would have access to health care. There is no need for means testing. Remember that all of us who qualify for Medicare have paid into it all our working lives including the so-called rich guy. Why should he be denied benefits he paid for just because he's rich?

[doc03]

17. I agree but on a previous occasion I brought this up and a

couple DUers thought if you make a pension it should be deducted dollar for dollar from your SS. I guess they want everyone on cat food.

[Cleita]

18. True progressive DUers don't think that.

Those were infiltrators. We have been fighting this on DU since I joined in 2003. We beat them back. They go away and then all of a sudden all the same RW talking points start resurfacing again even on DU and especially before elections. I'm weary. It would be a devastating thing if the Pukes win on this one with a Democratic President capitulates to them. I would be a dark day in America.

[doc03]

19. I had one that was of the opinion that if you get say $1000

a month from SS and $500 from a pension or an IRA, that it should be deducted from your SS. So in other words if you worked a union job and negotiated a pension and even had to strike to get it or you saved in a 401K that money should be confiscated. That person is not a right winger she just thinks since she doesn't get much income no one else should either I guess.

[Atman]

22. That's bullshit, and not AT ALL what I was saying I could support.

Please read my response to this in post #20. Please. I'm as liberal as they get, but I'm also a bit of a pragmatist. We're in serious trouble, and some creative thinking/creative solutions are required.

ON EDIT: Just to be clear...I'm not saying your post is bullshit, I'm saying the situation you describe is bullshit.

[doc03]

23. No, not you I was talking about another person's

opinion several weeks ago. This person said she only made a little over $500 a month and had the the opinion if you made $500 on your SS and had only a measly $500 pension it should be deducted from your SS. What would be the point of trying to save money for retirement or even joining a union to bargain for a pension if anything you got was deducted from your SS.

[Cleita]

12. That's exactly what they are talking about.

They probably want to slap the same means testing that is on Medicaid meaning you have to get rid of most of your assets other than a house and a limited savings before you qualify. This is a program you pay into just like insurance that is supposed to be there for you when you need it. Extending Medicare to everyone would make it available to all who pay into it. End of discussion. There would be no need for means testing because the "I have to pay for doctors for old people" crowd wouldn't have anything to complain about.

[Atman]

20. Why is everything a zero-sum gain?

I didn't say I agree with the CURRENT SYSTEM, such as what Doc posted. I'm talking about a completely revamped system. No mean testing of any kind for the average joe. That is one of the first changes I would make; it would make no difference if you show a relatively small capital gain when you are basically is the same income bracket as before. And I mean a significant difference...up to a couple hundred grand. At that point, why not invoke a small co-pay? If you're lucky enough to be worth (that's a tricky word) or making a million bucks, your co-pay increases. If you're filthy rich (we all know what that is, we're not talking about $200,000 as filthy rich), then you should pay a very significant co-pay. Maybe you get a voucher or some crazy bullshit they always try to put on lower income workers. I dunno, it's not like I've got a legislative staff researching and working out the details, I'm just making some suggestions.

Stop thinking about just making what we have NOW as the base. We CAN start over with a new way to run the old system. Think broadly. Think of things you haven't thought of yet, not the same old stuff.

[Cleita]

26. Because a revamped system would not be an insurance

system but a welfare system and frankly that sucks. We are fine the way we are. Don't fix what isn't broke regardless of how much the Republicans try to make it seem so. What can be fixed in Medicare is Part D, and the Medicare Advantage programs. These are what are sucking Medicare funds into the the private sector insurance and pharmacy industry. They need to go. Medicare needs a prescription drug system like the VA has. It keeps drug costs down and is efficiently run. But conservatives know that. They want the system to be broken and put through bills like Medicare Advantage and Medicare Part D that have the purpose of breaking the system so then they can replace it with privatized systems. Considering that private health insurance does not work, why do they keep trying to do it. If it worked we wouldn't have been demanding a different system to begin with. So please don't drink the Kool-Aid. They system isn't broken and can be improved with just a couple of tweaks.

[KoKo]

27. He was disgraceful in his Evilness and so Was TWEETY...!

But, Tweety is "twist with the Wind who Fills my Pockets" and Simpson is just a Terribly "Evil Radiating" nasty old man. I know very nice and charming old men who are literate and fun and educated and have stature in our society. "ALAN SIMPSON" does NOT BELONG in that GROUP! :puke:

[moondust]

28. IMO a better choice for that commission would have been

David Stockman. He's not a stupid ideologue and he doesn't seem to care what Republicans think of his ideas. Elliot Spitzer just agreed with all his proposals for fixing the deficit/debt.