Are grades supposed to be privileged info?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

A friend of mine's kids go to a school where they post the ineligibility list in the cafeteria, make those kids eat last, and encourage the other kids to taunt them. Do they think this is OK? Aren't they just encouraging another Columbine? I mean, I was under the impression that grades were private and weren't to be told unless the kid chose to do so.
Also good to note: said friend's son is dyslexic, teachers refuse to help him, etc. I've known these kids since they were babies. I grew up with their mother, so I know they're not just the kind of people who's kids can do no wrong.
What's your take on this?
Duckie

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. My take on this is that sounds horrible. Of course we're hearing about this sorta through the grapev

vine.

[uppityperson]

2. It sounds rather nasty way to do things. What is an "ineligibility list"? I thought grades

were supposed to be private unless a student said it was ok to share.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

4. The kids who are failing a class are on the ineligibility list.

They cannot participate in any school activity.

[seabeyond]

16. that is a nation wide law. was like that in calif. is like that in texas. surely you dont expect

a kid to be able to fail and participate in after school programs?

[walldude]

23. Nope bad idea. But posting their names on a list

in the cafeteria? Yeah fucking brilliant. Shame them. It's a hell of a plan.

[pnwmom]

31. Surely I expect that all states are bound by federal law

to keep a student's GPA private.

[seabeyond]

33. it is not showing gpa. it is a list of students that are ineligible for sports. nt

[pnwmom]

46. Doesn't matter. It's still private information connected

to their grades.

But all information is supposed to be kept private, unless it is "directory information" with no possible harm to the child -- and this clearly doesn't fall in that category.

[seabeyond]

47. you dont even know if they posted the names and wasnt under id # nt

[pnwmom]

52. That's obvious from the OP. n/t

[seabeyond]

53. no, it really isnt. is the teachers organizing a taunt fest. that would be the implication from op

listen here students. time to taunt.

[pnwmom]

56. How could anyone know who to taunt if there were no names? n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

60. That's not what I'm saying.

I just don't think they should make it public and make them eat last. They aren't involved in anything because the kids are just assholes.

[seabeyond]

63. lol duckie....

hey... i dont know the situation and i dont know the kids or families. too often i hear the school being blamed when i have watched the kids earn it... including my own. that sounded so far out, but really.... really really, i dont know shit. who knows.

the kids are out of the school. i hope they can settle in their new school, and do well. that things work out for them.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

64. Thanks.

But if you have never lived in Rural Oklahoma, it's hard to get the humiliation factor from the teachers. It is there. I had to put up with it for three years from a math teacher who so enjoyed humiliating me that I had him for three years. My mom was at the school every other week. Nothing was ever done. I was ruined on Math and science because of this. Humiliation happens and it is rampant. I was not the only one.
Duckie

[seabeyond]

65. i am trying to get the whole panhandle of texas thing being from calif

and after this long, still dont get it, or pound head on wall or whatever.

thankfully, we (my kids) have not had much of that here.

when they do have a teacher that may not get along with them personally, i tell the kids (and they say it before me, anymore) doesnt matter about the teacher. her future wont be fucked up. yours well. so one way or another, gotta figure how to make it thru that class.

my oldest had a 7th grade math teacher personality rub him so, the wrong way. he is obstinate. wouldnt back down or just allow her to be. so it was on his shoulders to figure out how to get thru with passing grade.

some kids liked her, some didnt

i knew what irritated him about her. i didnt particularly like her.

but he had to pass with a good grade, regardless.

mostly, they have both had good teachers.

[Drale]

3. They encourage other kids to taunt them?

That is inviting lawsuits, I hope that administration is made to pay big time.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. I thought so too.

She pulled them out of the school this morning and enrolled them in a school the next town over. She specifically moved to a larger town thinking her kids would get better education opportunities, and this is what happens. Makes me ill.
Duckie

[Brigid]

5. I don't have any kids.

But if I did, I would complain -- loudly -- to the district superintendent. Maybe even the state's department of education should get involved. This is just asking for trouble.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. That is what I thought.

Pisses me off actually. They are good kids. They don't have a ton of money, but they have good parents, a mother never got a good education herself and truly wants better for her kids. I think if the state superintendent got involved there would be a world of hurt. I just can't believe adults thought this was a good way to make kids want to get good grades. Makes no sense to me.

[seabeyond]

7. i call bullshit, lol. ok... grades. yes the other kids know grades

at sons school they have ineligible list up in locker room at the least, i know, for the kids on track team that cannot participate because of grades. within class, kids are grading other kids papers and often there is knowledge of what kids do as far as performance. when looking at a grade book, or today on computer, there is a list of kids with the grades. so looking at your own, or as a parent looking at my kids, i can easily see the other kids grades. so no, ... grades aren't hidden, but i dont think they put them out there purposely either, except it appears the eligibility thing.

i dotn believe the part of kids eating last. maybe if they have gotten in trouble and are doing an inschool iss. the kids have to wait to get their lunch then sit with teacher or go to a certain room.

i do not believe the teachers are encouraging taunting. just don't buy it.

and i have never... i mean never.... met teachers that were unwilling ot help a willing child. ever. i have one kid that has learning development and is very challenging to teachers and another child that goes thru school in a more normal manner of lazy sometimes and ALWAYS i have found teachers willing

my guess, .... you friends are making excuses and creating their child as a victim and not buckling down having him accept the position he is in. but blaming others for his failure

and that is PURELY a guess.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

9. Did you see the bottom of my post?

I've known these kids their whole lives, I know their parents. That is not what is happening here.
You'd be surprised what happens in small town schools here in Oklahoma, what teachers get away with, especially if the kids are the spawn of important people in town.

[seabeyond]

14. i also read.... what is your take on it. so i took you at your word

and gave it to you

i live in panhandle of texas. not too far from you. i know the mentality

[seabeyond]

15. i gotta ask something else that tends to make me feel as i do. obviously the kid? kids? are not

doing well. since the post is about grades being shown, taunting, late lunch.

where is the concern, why arent the parents on the kids ass for not doing well. instead of shifting poor grades to all of this, why isnt the focus on the kids doing poorly.

and this is from a parent that is on kids ass all friggin year long to make sure grades stay at A's and a B here and there only when warranted. not an easy job. not fun. would be nice if i had kids that were anal, on top of it and not lazy, but that is not our reality. kids are not allowed to EVER get below a B and only a couple B's allowed in their weaker courses.

[pnwmom]

25. Do you understand anything about dyslexia?

It isn't something that parents can fix by getting "on the kids ass" or by not allowing children to get grades below a B. You need to educate yourself.

[seabeyond]

29. i have a child that has his own learning challenges. we have been dealing with it

for 12 yrs now in the school environment. i know dyslexia, but that is not what i have experienced for 12 yrs. and yes.... you are on kids ass. continually. i have high expectation. my kids can perform at that level. knowing your child, if they cannot meet that goal, a parent should know and set the bar at what the kid can meet. that should not be failure yet expect kid to be able to continue with sports. i was giving the example of MY home. not all children.

[pnwmom]

34. Not all students can get a B or above in everything, no matter

how hard their parents ride them.

[seabeyond]

36. as i said in the post. i was giving the example of my home. it is what my kids

can do. so that is our line. but failure should never be ok, and should not be blamed on everything and everyone else but the kid. this kid had to get an F to get on that list. there is NO class the a kid cannot get at least a D in if expected. if a kid cannot at least get a D, then he needs to be in a different program. but that has nothing to do with being able to particpate in sports.

and i think it is absolute bullshit that they dont eat until last. the only time i hear about kids waiting to get lunch is when they are in trouble and have to sit with a teacher or go to iss.

[pnwmom]

40. How do you know what that school's standards are for ineligibility?

Your school apparently allows any grade above an F. Some schools don't allow students with an average below a C to participate. The OP didn't state what the requirements are, but it doesn't really matter. This is not public information, and the parent SHOULD protest. No one but the affected students and the coaches needs to know.

[seabeyond]

43. show me the school that does not allow particpation below a c.

parent can do whatever they want they have moved kids out of school. their kids failing and instead of doing something about the kids, make excuses adn reate them as victim and go to another school.

whatever.

i dont buy her story

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. I agree...OP is not credible

[pnwmom]

30. I think it's perfectly credible. Schools have done a lot worse things. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

58. Yes, you're one-sided horror stories are well known

[dems_rightnow]

11. Agree, BS

Encouraging kids to be taunted. Yeah, right.

[pnwmom]

24. By law, grades are supposed to be kept private.

It sounds like your son's school is flouting the FERPA law. As a parent, you are DEFINITELY not supposed to be able to see other student's grades on the computer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=886769&mesg_id=887450

[seabeyond]

26. i think she needs to be specific. sounding like not the grades, but kid made it on inelgible list

that does not show grades. that tells the students that are not eligible for after school programs.

[pnwmom]

27. Even an ineligible list is a violation of privacy laws

because it publicly discloses information about the child that should not be disclosed. The parent should write a letter to the principal stating that this information about her son should be kept private, as called for in the FERPA law. No one but the child and the coach needs to know his eligibility status.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=886769&mesg_id=887450

To protect your child's privacy, schools are generally prohibited from disclosing personally identifiable information about your child without your written consent. Exceptions to this rule include:

disclosures made to school officials with legitimate educational interests;

disclosures made to another school at which the student intends to enroll;

disclosures made to state or local education authorities for auditing or evaluating federal- or state-supported education programs, or enforcing federal laws that relate to those programs; and

disclosures including information the school has designated as "directory information."

What is directory information?

FERPA defines "directory information" as information contained in a student's education record that generally would not be considered harmful or an invasion of privacy if disclosed. Directory information could include:

name, address, telephone listing, electronic mail address, date and place of birth, dates of attendance, and grade level;

participation in officially recognized activities and sports;

weight and height of members of athletic teams;

degrees, honors, and awards received; and

the most recent school attended.

[seabeyond]

32. betcha it is perfectly legal. but, i will call the school tomorrow and get the facts on it.

i didnt see anywhere there cannot be a list of ineligible students. my son said a list was in the track locker room. comes out every 6 weeks so the kids can see who has to work to bring grade up to be able to go to meets.... and as quickly as possible, if they want to do their sport. it has them turning in that homework they didnt get done, doing extra credit, ect...

it is not some huge shaming thing

[pnwmom]

35. When you do so, ask them how it accords with the FERPA law.

See if they even know what that law says.

Here is what the U.S. Department of Education has to say:

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/brochures/parents.html

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) is a federal privacy law that gives parents certain protections with regard to their children's education records, such as report cards, transcripts, disciplinary records, contact and family information, and class schedules. As a parent, you have the right to review your child's education records and to request changes under limited circumstances. To protect your child's privacy, the law generally requires schools to ask for written consent before disclosing your child's personally identifiable information to individuals other than you.

__________________________

In my child's school, when information was posted, it wasn't posted with any NAMES. Students were identified by I.D. # only. That is the way all schools should be handling this.

[seabeyond]

37. maybe it is id #. i dont know. the OP said grades were posted, and i am sure they werent.

sounds like only inelgible list. maybe that list has only the id #. so good point. i will ask.

[seabeyond]

38. and yes... i am so sure they know ferpa law, that i will not bother to be so insulting.

these are not dumb shits running the school, as much as we like to pretend they are.

[pnwmom]

42. If they are posting names and not I.D. numbers, then they're not

acting in accordance with the law. It wouldn't be insulting them to ask if they are familiar with the law, because their actions make that a logical question.

[seabeyond]

44. i saw nowhere with what you posted that said ineligible list could nto be posted. but

i am not an expert in this. so i will ask someone that know that rules and law.

[pnwmom]

48. That is because the Federal Law wasn't written with that degree

of specificity. But it is abundantly clear that ALL information about a student is to be protected, except for "directory information" -- and a parent can opt out of even having directory information (name, address, etc.) made public.

[seabeyond]

49. yes. i sign that form every year for two kids... nt

[SheilaT]

12. If this were a school my kids were attending,

I'd start by talking to the principal. And if the posting and bullying did not come to a screeching halt within 24 hours, I'd then go to the superintendant of the school district.

I suspect that this is actually violating some kind of law with the posting of the ineligiblity list, and encouraging bullying is probably also violating some kind of law. Try to find an attorney who will be happy to help out. It's not money, but the changing of policy that is at stake here.

Also, if the son is diagnosed dyslexic, there are federal laws which require individual education plans (the exact name tends to vary from state to state) and public schools are obligated to provided appropriate help.

Good luck.

[Terra Alta]

13. I think it's horrible.

Making the kids eat last? Encouraging other kids to taunt them? Teachers not helping dyslexic kids? Honestly, what is this world coming to? Kids' grades should not be released unless the child gives permission.. I can't believe this is going on in America, in 2011.

[femmocrat]

17. Grades are confidential.

Our district doesn't even publish an Honor Roll anymore. We are not allowed to display student work with grades on it. In our district, eligibility lists are only available to teachers and coaches, not the general population of the school. I don't know if there are regulations about this, but as eligibility is grades-based, it is most likely confidential as well. (Coaches might not know this, if they are not teachers. The principal or athletic director needs to inform them.)

If the child is dyslexic, he should have an I.E.P., which ensures that he receive appropriate reading instruction. Children with I.E.P.'s have even more stringent confidentiality rules than the rest of the students.

Your friend could probably sue if she had the means. Even the threat of a lawsuit is often enough to get results.

[pnwmom]

54. I don't believe in honor rolls, either. In case the honor roll would be

considered "directory information," I wrote a letter to the principal referring to FERPA and asking for my daughter (who was an A student) not to be included on any such lists. She was happy not to be in the competition.

The next year they did get rid of the honor roll.

[WinkyDink]

18. What do grades have to do with the cafeteria?

[Avant Guardian]

19. That is against federal FERPA laws

[Snoutport]

20. WHAT?! This is NOT ok.

This is not considered good practice by any means!

[Orangepeel]

21. FERPA

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/index.html

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education.

FERPA gives parents certain rights with respect to their children's education records. These rights transfer to the student when he or she reaches the age of 18 or attends a school beyond the high school level. Students to whom the rights have transferred are "eligible students."

*

Parents or eligible students have the right to inspect and review the student's education records maintained by the school. Schools are not required to provide copies of records unless, for reasons such as great distance, it is impossible for parents or eligible students to review the records. Schools may charge a fee for copies.
*

Parents or eligible students have the right to request that a school correct records which they believe to be inaccurate or misleading. If the school decides not to amend the record, the parent or eligible student then has the right to a formal hearing. After the hearing, if the school still decides not to amend the record, the parent or eligible student has the right to place a statement with the record setting forth his or her view about the contested information.
*

Generally, schools must have written permission from the parent or eligible student in order to release any information from a student's education record. However, FERPA allows schools to disclose those records, without consent, to the following parties or under the following conditions (34 CFR § 99.31):
o School officials with legitimate educational interest;
o Other schools to which a student is transferring;
o Specified officials for audit or evaluation purposes;
o Appropriate parties in connection with financial aid to a student;
o Organizations conducting certain studies for or on behalf of the school;
o Accrediting organizations;
o To comply with a judicial order or lawfully issued subpoena;
o Appropriate officials in cases of health and safety emergencies; and
o State and local authorities, within a juvenile justice system, pursuant to specific State law.

Schools may disclose, without consent, "directory" information such as a student's name, address, telephone number, date and place of birth, honors and awards, and dates of attendance. However, schools must tell parents and eligible students about directory information and allow parents and eligible students a reasonable amount of time to request that the school not disclose directory information about them. Schools must notify parents and eligible students annually of their rights under FERPA. The actual means of notification (special letter, inclusion in a PTA bulletin, student handbook, or newspaper article) is left to the discretion of each school.

For additional information, you may call 1-800-USA-LEARN (1-800-872-5327) (voice). Individuals who use TDD may call 1-800-437-0833.

Or you may contact us at the following address:

Family Policy Compliance Office
U.S. Department of Education
400 Maryland Avenue, SW
Washington, D.C. 20202-8520

[pnwmom]

22. Here is the applicable law. Tell your friend to write a letter

to the principal saying that, under the FERPA law, she is informing him that he may NOT disclose any information about her son's grades or eligibility -- in the cafeteria or anywhere else. And she should spread the word among all the other parents she knows.

Note: the school may try to hide behind the idea that this is "directory information." This is false, because posting a list of ineligible students is NOT the same as posting a list of team members. However, even so, any parent may opt out of allowing even "directory information" to be released.

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/brochures/parents.html

Who else gets to see my child's education records?

To protect your child's privacy, schools are generally prohibited from disclosing personally identifiable information about your child without your written consent. Exceptions to this rule include:

disclosures made to school officials with legitimate educational interests;

disclosures made to another school at which the student intends to enroll;

disclosures made to state or local education authorities for auditing or evaluating federal- or state-supported education programs, or enforcing federal laws that relate to those programs; and

disclosures including information the school has designated as "directory information."

What is directory information?

FERPA defines "directory information" as information contained in a student's education record that generally would not be considered harmful or an invasion of privacy if disclosed. Directory information could include:

name, address, telephone listing, electronic mail address, date and place of birth, dates of attendance, and grade level;

participation in officially recognized activities and sports;

weight and height of members of athletic teams;

degrees, honors, and awards received; and

the most recent school attended.

A school may disclose directory information to anyone, without consent, if it has given parents: general notice of the information it has designated as "directory information;" the right to opt out of these disclosures; and the period of time they have to notify the school of their desire to opt out.

[Puregonzo1188]

28. Yes they are.

[lonestarnot]

39. Charter school?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

61. Public High School.

Northwestern Oklahoma.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. IF grades are posted at our school, they're posted by the student's ID #. NEVER by name. Grades

are private. No one but the teacher and student should know them...unless the student shares the info himself/herself.

[pnwmom]

45. Exactly. Because your school is following the law. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

50. Correct. n/t

[suffragette]

51. Here's some info on IDEA, FAPE, IEP's and OCR

Free Appropriate Public Education
for Students With Disabilities:
Requirements Under Section 504 of
The Rehabilitation Act of 1973

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/edlite-FAPE504.html

There is contact info for OCR in the last paragraph:

How to Obtain Further Assistance And Information

If you would like more information about Section 504 and the other laws enforced by the Office for Civil Rights, about how to file a complaint, or, if you are a school or school district, about how to obtain technical assistance, contact the Enforcement Office that serves your state or jurisdiction. Contact information for these offices is at http://wdcrobcolp01.ed.gov/CFAPPS/OCR/contactus.cfm. Information about discrimination based on disability is on OCR’s Web site at http://www.ed.gov/policy/rights/guid/ocr/disability.html. For further information, please contact our Customer Service Team toll-free at 1-800-421-3481.

[JackDragna]

55. This is utterly psychotic.

I teach, and I could not imagine humiliating any student like this. If I were a parent at that school, I would seriously tear down the list of "ineligible" students, then yell loudly at the principal for hours.

[pnwmom]

57. I hope you have a long, satisfying career in teaching.

:)

[L. Coyote]

59. Actually, it is the law! Every educator knows they cannot reveal grades. Even parents are not

allowed to find out their college students grades of they are over a certain age, except with permission from the student.

[readmoreoften]

62. Yes they are and this practice is reprehensible.