Anybody else starting to feel like they just don't care anymore?

[no limit]

I am.

At this point I'm so fed up with being angry all the time. It feels like nothing is going to get better in this country and the system can't be defeated. I remember in 2006 how ecstatic I was that after all the anger I developed against the Bush administration that things were finally going to change with democrats controlling the house and the senate. Yet things didn't change, they remained just as bad. But I figured that this was understandable, the democrats still didn't control the white house.

Then fast forward 2 years later and I remember how much pride I had on election night. After supporting Obama from the day he announced he would run I couldn't believe he actually did it, hell, I felt like WE did it.

Now another 2 years have passed and it feels like the entire thing is pointless. Like the entire system is set up against us and no matter how hard we try to fight it, no matter how many victories it seems we win against it, nothing changes. With 60 democrats in the senate, 70+ majority in the house, and a president in the white house that I know is smart enough to know better nothing useful gets done. The same corporate interests are still there. The media still blows. And money has more influance in our elections than ever before. 2 wars are still going strong. And this president is not mad at that, he's mad at me for losing my faith in him because of all these things.

I'm honestly at the point where I simply don't give a flying fuck anymore. I'm tired of being angry, tired of hoping for the best, tired of supporting people that think I'm the problem. I just want to do everything I can to enjoy this as much as possible before everything comes crashing down. Because I think we are all smart enough to know that it will.

Sorry about this pointless rant, but anyone else have this sinking feeling in them like there is no hope for change left?

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Yes. I've had a sinking feeling in my stomach for the last decade.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

177. after seeing Governor Brewer's death panel's I can't risk President Palin's FEMA Camps

So I can not Give UP, and expect not to be sent to "The Showers". Maybe a little over stated but nut all that much.

[CTyankee]

183. I had one just the other day. A young man from Ecuador whom I tutor in English

announced he was leaving the U.S. and going back to Ecuador for good. He has a degree in Electrical Engineering and has pretty good English. But he's returning home and part of the reason is that Ecuador is trying to get back their professionals. The country is on the way up, along with other countries in South America, esp. Brazil. They are offering incentives to get their people back, financial and professional. What it all adds up to is that we are losing out with the folks who used to come here to make a better life for thmselves than they had back home.

I feel like the canary in the coal mine. The day hasn't yet come when knowing English is not important but I see it as less so now. My hope is in some of the phenomenal refugees I see when I tutor at a refugee settlement organization in my city. Maybe they will help us change things here...

[newfie11]

277. I have been thinking about going to Ecuador

It is looking better each day.

[CTyankee]

281. I am not so sure it is a good place for Americans to go to live...

My student has a one way ticket paid for by the Ecuadorean government. He will have help in getting a financial footing and in getting a job. Sounds to me like they want their professional class back and are willing to "invest" in them if they return...wow, think of that concept...investing in people...

[Can of Whoop-ass]

288. boo hoo hoo

invest in human resouces? Hmmm, what a concept! We used to do that here, but making Senators rich has priority now. Or Boner will bawl.....................

[Foo Fighter]

198. I've got you beat by about 20 years.

Ronnie Reagan really did it for me. The fact that enough people were stupid enough to vote for him not just once but twice told me all I needed to know.

And 30 years later, the fact that we have a President that has professed his admiration for Saint Ronnie and seems intent on persuing his agenda tells me the electorate hasn't learned one goddamned thing in that time. Back then we had "Trickle Down Ronnie." Now we have "Trickle Down Obama." Same shit, different name.

[Celtic Raven]

+1

Boggles the mind doesn't it?

[Foo Fighter]

392. Indeed it does.

Apparently, it's OK if a "D" passes a bill that screws over the poor and working class. However, if an "R" were to pass that same bill, well, that just shows how truly awful the Republicans really are.

The bottom line is that NO ONE in DC represents the poor and working class. They only represent their own interests or, more importantly, those of their big contributors. Here's a quote from Jim Webb regarding his inability to get a vote on limiting Wall Street bonuses:

Webb has pushed for a onetime windfall profits tax on Wall Street's record bonuses. He talks about the "unusual circumstances of the bailout," that the bonuses wouldn't be there without the bailout.

"I couldn't even get a vote," Webb says. "And it wasn't because of the Republicans. I mean they obviously weren't going to vote for it. But I got so much froth from Democrats saying that any vote like that was going to screw up fundraising.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/11/8/222550/498

Yes, that's right. Dems were against bringing the vote to the floor because it would screw up fundraising. I guess we know where the loyalties of the Dems lie (as if there was ever any doubt). And it's not with us.

[dixiegrrrrl]

393. Reminds me of a great line in Wall Street 2

Our young hero is talking to big chief bankster, and asks him:

" What's your "line"?

Bankster: " My what?"

Hero: " Your number.
Most people have a number in their minds, at which point they are willing to walk away from
from all of the empire building. You have more money than most anyone else in this business,
what's YOUR number?".

And the bankster smiles a wicked grin and says: " More".

[Lorien]

349. +1. America's inability to learn from it's colossal mistakes never ceases to astound

though St. Ronnie's undoing of the Fairness Doctrine had a huge effect on that.

[MineralMan]

2. Nope.

[asdjrocky]

18. Classic.

[tavalon]

235. But truthful

I'm glad there are still some idealists left.

[Name removed]

357. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CurtEastPoint]

3. Hardly pointless, my friend. Rather, it's right TO the point.

Sadly, many of us feel that way, too.

[roguevalley]

114. it comes and goes.

[108]

360. the problem is ideological

and the Republicrats are winning it

they have half of America so bought into this fantasy called "small government", that they are willfully giving up their rights to corporations

until the half starts getting fed up themselves (mostly white men), nothing will happen...

[asdjrocky]

4. Music, cannabis and making fun of shit on DU, along with a few other sites-

Keeps me sane. It's time to look to your friends, if you don't have any it's time to make some, and to look inward. Looking to people outside your immediate circle will not change your life any more.

They are not for you, they are for them. Get it?

[no limit]

15. Amen brother

[asdjrocky]

20. You got a friend here, write me anytime.

We'll hang out and get stoned and listen to this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTafZRecy2k

Don't have much, but what I got is yours.

[no limit]

75. Hey thanks, I appreciate that. Cool song.

[BobTheSubgenius]

219. Dropkick Murphys KICK ASS!

I can't think of a thing about them that I don't like, especially their politics.

[asdjrocky]

225. If you've been to shows, some of the fans are a bit, er, conservative.

But I've always loved the band and what they have to say. End the end, once a punk, always a punk.

[PhillySane]

279. Actually

thats why I'm here in the first place. I care, but who else wants to listen? At the end of the day, we live our lives. That's more important anyway. Those around us. There will always be the fight. But we need to live our lives. Take stock of the advances we have made, small they may be. Baby steps. Then relax. It could always be worse.

[kentuck]

289. "We're the first ones to starve, we're the first ones to die.."

Good song!

[BrklynLiberal]

348. WOW!! That is incredible. Love the song and their music!!!

Thanks for that link.

Reminds me of what Springsteen used to be about..

[druidity33]

49. so, so true..

If i couldn't set myself back in a chair and absorb some good "vibes"... i don't know if i could be a sane and coherent individual. Lately, i'm into Gogol Bordello, but anything that sets me off and can divert me from spiraling downward, thinking too much about how doomed everyone is, is welcome. My neighbors and friends keep me grounded. We are working on a resource map for when society collapses. Who does what/where locally. And who HAS what/where... what skills folk have in the area, etc. Puttin' it down on PAPER! (you know, for when the Mayan calendar says things will irrevocably change... December something 2012)

:)

[asdjrocky]

58. Those are some good ideas.

A resource map is a wonderful idea.

[tavalon]

236. Damn, that is awesome

A great idea. Take this post out of the reply zone and create an OP. More of us need to be thinking just like that.

[GrannyK]

369. Dec. 21, 2012

Usually the Winter Solstice. It's also my son's birthday. And my birthday is usually the Spring Equinox.
I've always thought that interesting.

[Lost-in-FL]

206. ...

:thumbsup:

[PhillySane]

273. Soldier On

The biggest protest of the 60's occurred outside the 1968 Democratic Convention. The left had no trust for either side at the time. It was LBJ, a Democrat who had escalated the war in Viet Nam. Later Nixon would be president and guess what? They kept protesting. Eventually Nixon went down in flames. Then Carter, Reagan, and HW Bush. Finally we got to Clinton. Anyway, the point is this.
the struggle always continues. Stay vigilante, stay focused, stay involved. Never give up. That's exactly what they want you to do.

[madmax]

5. I don't care

and I just posted on another thread that I'm offically a part of the I hate America crowd but, I'm not leaving. :mad:

[cilla4progress]

188. Love it! Thanks!

I'm wit' ya!

[madmax]

189. We'll stay and make

the bastards miserable :hug:

Glad I was raised with nothing. Taught me I didn't need 'it'.

[Taverner]

6. The rant is not pointless. Telling us all to buck up and shut up is.

And I for one am sick of the "Democratic Party© Right or wrong!" attitude here sometimes

[katnapped]

7. Yep...I've had that feeling for awhile

It's either a choice of slowing it down or full steam ahead, but it's going to head in the wrong direction no matter who's in office. And I also think the only way to fix it is if the whole thing crashes into the ground into a huge fireball...maybe somebody can pick up the pieces afterward and rebuild it.

[walldude]

8. Hoo boy do I understand that rant..

I think one of the biggest problems is we really expected Obama and the Democrats to be... different. We expected real help not a few bones tossed to us so we'd shut up.

K&R

[Kaleko]

212. My sentiments exactly.

[Matariki]

9. Yeah, I feel like "they" don't care - but I care a lot.

By "they" I mean most of our legislators.

[DeSwiss]

10. Starting? No.

Although I suppose that some people are just coming to realize it.

Does it hurt yet?

To anyone who is paying attention, things look doomed. Fortunately for American capitalism, nobody is paying attention. They never have. Even given the unemployment numbers, foreclosures and bankruptcies, most Americans are still not feeling enough pain yet to demand change. Not that they will. Demand change, I mean. We haven't the slightest idea of any other options, outside those provided by the corporate managed state. So in a chorus well-schooled by the media the public demands "reform," of the present system, the systemic pathogenic system based on exploitation of the many by the few, the one presently eating our society from the inside out. How do you reform that?

We are clueless, and the state sees to it that we stay that way. Take the price of gas, about which Americans are obsessive. In one way or another, petroleum is the subject of much news coverage, nearly as much as pissing matches between egomaniacs in Hollywood or on Capitol Hill. So one might think that by now Americans would have a realistic grasp of the petroleum business and things like oil and gasoline prices.

Hah, think again! This is America, this is Strawberry Fields, where nothing is real and the skies are not cloudy all day. We're stewed in a consumer hallucination called the American Dream and riding a digital virtual money economy nobody can even prove exists.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/07/waltzing.html">Joe Bageant, "Waltzing at the Doomsday Ball"

- K&R

[superduperfarleft]

39. Great article.

Deer Hunting For Jesus has been on my to-read list for a while, I may have that much that up in the rotation.

[tavalon]

243. Pure Joe, that

It's funny, since I've heard him speak, I hear that long, long article in his drawl. If I didn't, it would seem that the smartest man on earth wrote it. Heck, even with the drawl, he's probably one of the smartest people on earth.

[nckjm]

318. Thank you for reminding me of Joe Bageant

What an awesome thinker and awesome writer. I just visited his website and read his essay: The Audacity of Depression. Considering he wrote it in 2008 and he could have just written it this morning, it put into words what I, along with many, many of you are feeling right now and expressing on DU. When/if you have time, consider checking out that essay:

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/04/the-audacity-of.html

"Among sentient people everywhere there is a deep, visceral unease, and among those most aware there is genuinely acute suffering."

Folks, many of us are genuinely, acutely suffering now. I am so happy to have you all to communicate with. My family and friends are not really able to understand why all of this "gets to me" so bad. But I think many of you do! Thanks for being here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. It will come

and those who prevent peaceful revolution and all that...

We are going through a paradigm shift and it will not be pretty.

[guitar man]

141. Exactly

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable-JFK

That quote has been haunting me for quite some time now. I don't think any of us want a violent revolution but it's become apparent that there is no peaceful solution within the current system. Our "own party" is in the process of selling us out every day and eventually there will be no place to turn. If the suffering gets bad enough and widespread enough, there will be upheaval. When exactly, who knows?

One thing is certain though, by destroying what's left of the social safety nets put in place by the New Deal and those that came after, the aristocratic class is like a monkey playing with a pin on a hand grenade. If enough people get hungry enough for long enough....BOOM!! :(

[Hardrada]

186. Exactly what I thought. Those social safeguards were put there

for the purpose of preserving capitalism and the existing social class structure. Once they are gone it is a perilous situation. But I guess everyone already knows that.

[tavalon]

244. Those of us who realize that classes are and always have been a big unspeakable

elephant in the room sure do.

[salib]

195. I am not at all convinced in the inevitability of an effective uprising

Feudalism has been around for a long time, and Europe remained in the Dark AGES IN SPIT OF PEOPLE BEING HUNGRY AND ABUSED to ridiculous levels.

So it could get really terrible, really ugly, and yet the powers that be could still be cracking the whip. Quite successfully, and brutally. All the worse in the aftermath of the "inevitable" violent uprisings.

I believe a number of people really believe that what JFK was saying was a warning to the powerful, but in fact it was to those of us who cling to the idea that the powerful have something really to fear from an uprising. It is more those who care and do not want to see such destruction and horror who should heed JFK's warning.

So we must accomplish what we can now, while we are not having to choose between picking up that assault rifle, that whip or that slave collar.

Not just work harder, or smarter, more effectively.

We must accomplish,on the level which we can.

It is the only best thing worth living for. It is the answer to despair.

It is so the most difficult thing to do well. Not accomplishment of greed or hate or fear or loathing. No, that is a drug and all too easy.

Am I saying " buck up and get back out there"? Not what I think.

Despair can be important and is real. It does not just go away.

However, despairing for a long period of time and expecting a different outcome at some point is, as many have said here, is like doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

[tavalon]

245. Keep talking

This is really good stuff you've just said. Take it to the next step and talk about what you're doing. What we should all be doing.

[salib]

276. I doubt I have too many answers right now for anyone else

Right now I am in a hospital bed trying to get my atria to stop "fibrillating". (weird word). Anyway, gives me a purpose, right?

So, what do I do with the world around me, now that the political , especially locally, has proven to be not what I have the skills to really accomplish much with?

How about you?

[That Guy 888]

248. There were a lot of peasant revolts - we just aren't taught about them

Usually they failed for a few reasons:

1. Celebrating their victory while other forces came in to stomp them. Other nobles didn't want there own peasants getting any ideas.

2. Professional mercenaries or knights/men-at-arms had more training and combat experience when they counter attacked.

3. Infighting about leadership that doesn't have traditional power to back it up, or that old expression "getting the trains to run on time is a lot harder than blowing them up."

[salib]

274. Just proves the point , right?

[pokercat999]

308. Your remarks about the "dark ages" are quite depressing if

you think, back then one only needed a sharp sword or metal pointed arrow for your bow to have an effective arm against the government. Today our biggest threat maybe our own armed forces! To have an all "volunteer" military is just about the same as having an all mercenary military. We need to downsize our military by half and reinstate the draft to insure that our military is "of the people". Sorry if you or your relative is in the military....I don't trust them. If you don't think your 20 year old is brainwashed you have got to be in De-Nile and that ain't no damn river.

[defendandprotect]

356. Violence only serves the right wing ... it's the only way they can rise ....

non-violent resistance is the only way --

concerted, united non-violence --

and many ways to do it --

beginning with Australia's "lights out" which conveyed a message about the

environment/Global Warming.

Every product we use has a message for those who profit from it --

beginning with cars --

But I do agree that people don't tend to act until they are desperate and

then it can be too late --

What is clear is that capitalism's war on nature has been suicidal -- and

Mother Nature is holding the final cards --

[defendandprotect]

354. Agree completely with your observations .....

except one -- they have pretty much made poverty illegal again --

and that new prison industrial complex has something they call "food"

and "jobs" -- !!!

[mitchtv]

12. beyond disgust

things will never change. California is more like a third world country every day

[MindPilot]

36. +1000

Ain't that the truth.

[tavalon]

246. That is really too bad

I was nursing a fantasy of the West Coast of the U.S. seceding and either becoming it's own nation or joining up with the country to the north.

[lafayettelonewolf]

355. Yeah.

Sounds like a good idea to me...or I would just head anywhere else...

[Tesha]

387. Ecotopia. (Or, for some, Cascadia.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia

[golddigger]

13. Yep.

[Hannah Bell]

14. it's because you *do* care that you feel bad. & hopelessness is *exactly* the reaction

the PTB wish to engender: the perception they are all-powerful & there is nothing the "little people" can do about it. but there is, always. if nothing else, to teach your children how the world actually operates, so they won't be blinded by ruling class myth & thereby make decisions not in their own interest.

[DemReadingDU]

25. it is because we do care

that's why things are bothersome to us.

But to my family, friends, and neighbors...they have other priorities.

[Hannah Bell]

41. always people like that. they don't care because they don't know, or because it

hasn't hit them personally.

plant seeds...but stay friendly.

we need our friends & family in these times.

[DemReadingDU]

53. Mostly they're in denial

I'm the nutty relative who reads blogs, and has a clue what's going on.
Nobody believes me, it's all still too good for them.

They may not get it figured out until this does hit them personally. That's when we'll definitely need family and friends, pitching in, helping each other.

[Hannah Bell]

61. I'm a nutty relative too. But a couple of skeptics are also now "nutty relatives".

stay friendly. :>)

[madmax]

270. That's what I deal with

people have their heads so far up their ass I look into their eyes when they open their mouths.

What is wrong with people? I'm talking about those who barely have a hold on daily necessities who are 'too busy' to pay attention, vote, speak up. None of which would cost them any money! Do they do ANYTHING?

May sound childish but, this isn't what I signed up for. Like the OP I played by the rules, I put things off for 'when I have time, and someday'. Now, it seems those days are never going to come. :mad:

While this generation (Not all of you) but, the ones I've seen and some in my own family are busying putting holes and tats all over themselves, they don't see that they're not even going to be able to get a job digging a ditch. :mad:

[spooked911]

240. Yes-- they want you to feel that there is no hope

[Crunchy Frog]

310. Yes.

Teaching my children is what's important now.

[CanonRay]

16. +1000

[frylock]

17. i'm trying real hard not to give a shit anymore

[stopbush]

19. Do you really expect 30 years of Reaganomics and long-term control of Congress

by the Rs to be overturned in 4 years?

Please.

To aver that "nothing has changed" is childish. But I'll bite: would you really rather have had the Rs in charge of Congress for the past 4 years? Would you really rather have Grumpy and Empty in the WH right now? After all, if nothing has changed, what's the difference?

Those of us who have been in this Party for 30-40 years realize that nothing changes overnight, that victories are hard to come by, and that one needs to look at long term strategies and victories.

That's just the way it is when you have one party looking out for the general welfare of the nation while the other party appeals to the self-centered attitudes of many in the country.

[no limit]

22. "would it be better if the Rs were in charge"? Thanks, totally did not see that question coming

But I'll bite. How many disastrous policies were enacted during the Bush administration? How many of those policies are still being continued today under the Obama administration?

[stopbush]

32. That shit is Candyland compared to the fights Ds have been through in the past.

Civil rights, womens' rights, union organization and a lot of other battles that make this tax cut dust up look like a game of hide-n-seek.

I swear, some of you have no guts. You're ready to quit over an argument that our forebears would have considered a luxury to even entertain having.

I'll quote Obama: Buck up.

You don't like it? Work to change it. Your "I'm with Timothy Leary" attitude gets no sympathy from me.

[no limit]

37. Speaking of civil rights. How is that DADT repeal going?

Speaking of women rights, how did the equal payment thing go?

Unions? How did the card check thing go?

And I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I was only upset about this latest tax cut cave in, it is only one straw out of many.

As far as guts go what would you like me to do to change the system? Keep voting for the same people that think I'm the enemy? because I'm not really willing to put in the effort for that. But if you have something useful in mind I'll be right there with you buddy.

[stopbush]

40. You want the truth on what I'd have you do to change the system?

Get IN the system.

Run for office as a D. Run for school board or mayor or whatever.

You really want to "change the system?" Become a person representing hundreds or thousands or millions of other people, rather than being one person/one vote who makes their fraction of the electoral opinion known every couple of years.

BE the change. Make a real effort - there's no "effort" involved in pulling a voting lever, whether it's for your ideal candidate or one you feel is a DINO. I take that back - it takes more effort to do that than to post on a blog.

But perhaps that's not the answer you require as it doesn't assume to live within the armchair restrictions you've seemingly set for yourself.

[no limit]

45. Who said anything about armchair restrictions?

I asked you for a plan, you said run for office. Honestly, you might have a good point there. People always said all politics is local. My only problem with that is the idea that I can get elected. But lets see, when I mature a bit more and quit some of the dumb shit I do I look forward to your support :).

[stopbush]

52. You'll have my support, including a donation when the time comes.

And you'll be a better person for it than those of us who have armchaired it most of our lives.

There's always hope when good people pick up the mantle and Do something tangible.

Hey, be honest: don't you feel a teensy bit less depressed now?

[no limit]

78. From all the nice replies and support in this thread I do feel a bit better

it's really nice having this place to be able to vent. And it's nice to know you aren't the only one that feels this way.

[BrendaBrick]

98. Take heart no limit........

You really posted an honest thread from your heart and I for one admire that about you....good, bad or otherwise. The thing that I have to keep reminding myself of is that this is still a relatively young nation as compared to others - you know?

We really do have a short history as compared to other nations.

Perhaps a bit naive actually, in some ways and respects? (shrug?)

All I know...as much I like to bit*h and complain...the fact STILL remains (at least for now) that I turn on my water faucet - I get water....hot or cold or both - my choice. (Believe it or not - this IS a lot more than other human beings such as ourselves have in other parts of the world!!!) I have a roof over my head. I have warm clothing. I have food in my fridge and I am able to post my feelings and thoughts on venues such as this for the time being.

This is NOT in any way, shape or form to minimize or trivialize or rationalize the very real greedy and seemingly 'above the law" crap that is going on in our country in the least!

But rather, all things considered....it ain't half bad - warts and all.

The thing is (I'm thinking) the real thing here is that the only way that this country and its politicians and others "in charge" might want to change their spots (if that's possible) is if there were to be just an onslaught of opinions from folks from other nations that rightfully 'dog us' and make us (them) rightfully feel ashamed of ourselves for having let this country just go right on down the tube as it has been...and that the notion of days gone gone past of the U.S.A. being #1 is no longer the case and it is because of X, Y & Z reasons.........

Appeal to the ego of the nation is what I'm thinkin' here (you follow me?)........not unlike other social changes in bygone eras - like - for one, (that springs to my mind just now) I think that there was a time where it was somehow "en vogue" and fashionable for a lady in the 1880's or whatever in a *privileged* class to wear the plume of an endangered species in her hat. This set her apart as being something or someone *special" It was only after the societal disgust that this was eventually downplayed to the extent that that particular mode of austere flamboyance was somehow poohed-poohed and was no longer acceptable - hence, no longer sought because of the ever-so-popular synergy that no matter how old you are and how much money you have...that such a lavish, extravagant, pompous showing of status of the day might just well come back to bite ya - because in the end - everyone wants to be liked and accepted no matter of class or social status...and in the end I reckon, I think that is probably a really, really GOOD THING!

[Tsiyu]

169. I take it you have never been to Appalachia?

All I know...as much I like to bit*h and complain...the fact STILL remains (at least for now) that I turn on my water faucet - I get water....hot or cold or both - my choice. (Believe it or not - this IS a lot more than other human beings such as ourselves have in other parts of the world!!!)


I - and many I know - do not have this luxury of running water.

We live in the US too.

But I'm glad you have running water, hot and cold...

[Leftist Agitator]

223. Wood stove?

My grandparents are in their 90s and don't have running water. They get theirs from a waterfall fed by an old WPA dam. And they use a wood stove for heat.

[Tsiyu]

365. I wish

I have a lot of woods.

Central heat here, but I use it sparingly for $$ reasons, let space heaters warm up the room I'm in.

I have a springfed well but the cheap crap Intellitech or whatever it's called Lowe's brand pump busted and no $$$ to replace the cheap Lowe's Chinese crap thing I bought to replace the really goood pump I had for years.

So I get water from friends, from various public springs and from the sky when it rains and heat it in a huge amish steel canner i bought from Lehman's before Y2K :) One of the best investments I made was that canner - has lasted all this time with nearly daily use....

Lots of folks are seeing their wells get messed up and many here have no wells or access to the water system. We all try to help each other though, that's the good thing about living here.

[Leftist Agitator]

373. Hey...

"...a huge amish steel canner..."

I just started taking an interest in canning myself. I watched my grandmother put up all kinds of food when I was a kid, but I never paid enough attention so as to learn the process.

I've been reading up on canning, but I'd love to correspond with you if you have practical experience with the method.

Please, PM me, if you're game.

[tavalon]

254. I don't know how many recs you had 14 hours ago, but you're at the top of the Greatest page

and therefore on the Front Page. Yeah, we get you.

[Tanelorn]

197. Thanks . I do feel better.

Change is frustratingly slow. There have been many
achievements in the past two years. Obama must wear robust
criticism that is the way a democracy works. Unfortunately you
don't seem to have a media that plays fair and honours debate
and energises more heat than light.

You sound very much like the Canadian philosopher , John
Ralston Saul,who also advocated debate, involvement and
generally being a nuisance to the powerful.

Thanks again  

[tavalon]

253. Just remember

You never inhaled. :evilgrin:

[Leftist Agitator]

222. You are so charmingly naive...

"You really want to "change the system?" Become a person representing hundreds or thousands or millions of other people..."

Do you really think that it's possible to get to high office without millions to bankroll your effort? And in the wake of Citizens United, do you really think that it's possible to raise that kind of money strictly through public financing and actually win an election?

But hey, bully for you!

"I'm not giving up! Fight the Power, Man! Only a crybaby would quit! We've been through tougher spots, we'll win again! DEMS DEMS DEMS DEMS!"

So charmingly naive...

[tavalon]

252. I'm going to stick with local activism,

because polyamorous people living in multipartner marital relationships are about as electable as atheists, right or wrong. I'm going to continue to vote, because as I said up thread, I don't want a scarlet A and voting isn't hard. But believing that voting makes a damn bit of difference is an illusion I'm better off without (I'm a black box voting veteran. I left the war when I realized it was truly unwinnable). Most importantly, I'm going local because when (not if) this whole charade ends, it's having community connections that is going to make the difference between life and death, not what the self important politicians of both parties are doing.

[bobbolink]

152. Those problems are still there, but at least the Homelessness Crisis is solved.

Is it necessary to add :sarcasm: ?

[Scruffy1]

282. It only hurts when I think.

[bobbolink]

151. Keep pushing people away with the superiority trip. Way to go.

[Forkboy]

158. yeah, but you have to admit the choice of names makes his posts a lot funnier.

That kind of comedy is rare these days. ;)

[bobbolink]

163. You have a point, but being at the bottom of the ladder and getting shit like that for real all the

time..... it loses the humor.

Como esta frijoles tennis shoes? (How ya bean, Ked)? :hi:

[Forkboy]

165. I take my gallows humor where I can get it.

Which these days is pretty much everywhere. x(

:hi:

[stopbush]

207. Hmm. Taking this post along with your #152 about homelessness:

I'd mention that I currently work full time for a homeless shelter in CA as a fund raiser, marketer and PR person, and for considerably less income than I have made in the past.

Superiority trip? No, just the frustration that comes from being on the front lines every day and then reading the daily shitload of kvetching arising from people who have never known struggles like those faced by the homeless and who pontificate from the warmth of their computer-enabled abodes.

[bobbolink]

292. Ah, yes, many of us have been discussing people with power trips who work in shelters and "help"

agencies.

Like cops who want the job so they can wear a badge and a gun and push people around.

Gotchaya.

[stopbush]

317. And how many in your little "discussion" actually work in the industry?

Do you yourself work in the industry?

As far as "pushing people around," my job doesn't involve my interacting with our residents outside of saying hello to them in the hallways. The real interaction is between the residents and their case managers.

But, of course, you already knew that, being as well-versed as you are in how things work in a homeless shelter.

[bobbolink]

375. "industry". That says it all, doesn't it?

The discussion involves people directly affected.... you know, those you don't speak with.

[stopbush]

386. Yep, just like there's a hospital industry, and a religious industry.

Typical - you're more worried about the semantics than you are about the actual issues.

As far as limiting your chat to those affected - 70% of the residents in our shelter have drug and alcohol abuse problems, and with those problems comes a view of reality that is, how shall we say, unique?

I used to work in a hospital kitchen. We served the same "normal diet" food in the employee cafeteria that we served to the patients. Amazingly, while the employees found the food quite tasty, many of the patients thought it tasted like crap. So who was right? Well, I'd say that the employees whose taste buds weren't affected by medications may have had a more realistic perspective.

[tavalon]

247. The difference is spelled out in the article up thread

The one by Joe Bageant. We're in a game changing time and yeah, those other times were game changing too, but they were, in a global sense, very local. This isn't. For all but the moneyed few, we are about to hit the world changing wall. I don't think we're going to hit it this week or next or possibly even this year or the next, but it's coming and most of us, even those with their heads buried in the sand, are feeling..................something. It's coming.

[Tesha]

388. IN THE GLORIOUS PAST that you're making reference to, ...

...Democrats actually decided to stand for something, even though
they knew it was impolitic and would lead to the party losing power,
possibly forever.

Nowadays, the "leaders" of our party don't stand for anything
except possibly clawing after some pathetic relic of their former
power. And that's why we have compromisers like Clinton and
Obama and why old-time Democrats from the Democratic wing
of the Democratic Party are quitting* in droves.

Tesha


* For various values of "quit"

[AllyCat]

217. And being ENHANCED under Obama.

[MadHound]

54. And which party would that be?

From where I sit, I don't see either party looking out for the general welfare of the nation. After all, both parties just voted yesterday in the Senate to drown our country in debt, and that's but the latest of outrages.

[stopbush]

59. Yes, I realize that yesterday's vote was the first time EVER that

the Senate voted to drown us in debt.

Strangely, you're buying the RW mantra of the deficit-ueber-alles. Weren't they the ones saying two weeks ago that the deficit was so huge that adding a cent to it would be a calamity of Biblical proportions?

What made you decide to support their meme? Must be a pretty compelling argument, especially as it flies in the face of the idea that the government needs to spend $ when the private sector isn't.

[MadHound]

70. No, I'm buying into reality

Let's see, Moody's is seriously considering downgrading our bond rating. US Treasuries had a massive two day sell off last week just on the news of Obama's "compromise". The Fed is printing money like is was manufacturing Monopoly money. China and Russia have abandoned the dollar when doing bilateral trades. The petrodollar is weakening. The cost of our borrowing is rising.

I'm not buying any mantra, I'm looking at reality. Your cute-ass back door attempt at accusing me of being a 'Pug isn't working because I've been screaming about our huge ass debt for a long while.

But in reality, it doesn't matter what I think, it matters what our politicians think. And with the cloud of debt now hanging even heavier over our government, the drumbeat to cut spending is becoming even louder. The Catfood Commission was but the first shot in this contest, and I imagine that sometime next year, Obama is going to be the Democratic president who cuts SS, probably due to another of his famous "compromises".

Our debt is a real problem, and adding another trillion dollars to it is not going to help matters. Now we could be sensible about this, and rather than cutting taxes, after all they are the least efficient form of economic stimulus, we could take that money and invest it in one of the most effective forms of economic stimulus, the creation of a true, WPA style job creation program. But apparently Obama is enamored with his hero Reagan, and is following in his footsteps, cutting taxes for the rich.

So, when the shit hits the fan next year, when SS and other good programs are cut, when the cost of our debt shoots way up, don't say your weren't warned. Just apologize for your foolish intransigence.

[Leftist Agitator]

224. I endorse this post.

+1

[Lorien]

350. +1. nt

[bobbolink]

156. Your finger must hurt from all the violent shaking of it at others.

[bobbolink]

149. Calling names is exactly what is driving people away. Good going.

[Marr]

178. I hoped for a change in direction. We didn't even get a change of speed.

If you think the last two years are representative of a well-meaning government working to reverse thirty years of corporate policy, I'd like to sell you a bridge.

[Orrex]

210. You make a terrific point, but...

I'm concerned that we haven't yet reached the halfway point of the Reaganomics arc.

[Prophet 451]

264. How could it be worse?

Maybe we got a couple of small victories, the Fair Pay Act but honestly and truly, how could it have been worse? What would a Republican president for teh last two years have done any differently?

I'm not taking the piss here, I want to know. I'm at the end of my rope here, give me something.

[bigmonkey]

372. Attacking Iran would be one thing that would have made it worse.

You really think that would have been off the table with McCain?

Rhetorically it's helpful to ramp up the perception of harm to lend urgency to the point. Nevertheless, there is a difference between, say, a tendency to fascism and actual government agents knocking down doors to disappear people in the night as a regular practice. You could ask a Holocaust survivor about that difference, perhaps. Mind you, I'm quite alarmed enough about the tendency to fascism, as are many of the Holocaust survivors. We need to stop it before it gets there, but it's not there yet.

[Prophet 451]

380. Thank you, that's something

I forgot to take my meds yesterday, which may well explain the despair.

[Crunchy Frog]

313. Maybe things have to get a WHOLE lot worse before they can get better.

I thought things had gotten bad enough that real change was possible, but I don't think so anymore. If Grumpy and the Idiot had gotten in maybe it finally would have gotten bad enough? :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

358. Thank heavens we now have MEDICARE FOR ALL .... ? Oops -- !!!

Forgot, Obama and Rahm PRESERVED the PRIVATE health care industry --

an then Rahm bragged about it!!

Why would you be supporting back room deals that Obama has been making -- ?

We don't get democracy via back room deals --

[Yavapai]

21. Same here, only the same occurred for me after Clinton's first year.

And then after getting pumped up and believing, it has happened again...

I don't have any cash now, but when I checked my pocket..... I do see change (a quarter and two nickles). Guess I can believe in that!

[NightWatcher]

23. Pointless rant, nothing. Forward a copy to the DLC, DCCC, and Obama.

I'm in that same boat with you.

We won Congress, before they were sworn in everything was off the table.
We busted our hump to get the White House, boom, instant capitulation.

Fool me once....twice even, but not a third time. No I will never vote for a puke, but I might not care anymore about putting forth any effort. This past election was this feeling coming to a point for millions of us. Imagine how bad the loss will be after two more years of letdowns.

Not a pointless rant my friend, but a dead on rant.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

90. Like they listen. nt

[patrice]

24. When I see people like Thom Hartmann attacked for intellectual honesty, you got to wonder what good

"caring" is going to do.

[WilliamPitt]

26. No.

But there is nothing wrong with taking a break. I pretty much checked out for the latter half of 2008. Needed it bad.

[no limit]

29. To be fair to you you always said that most of us set our hopes way too high

I didn't want to believe you at first. You were 100% right.

[WilliamPitt]

35. Caring about the world is a lot like being a recovering alcoholic.

One day at a time.

[KoKo]

154. Some wise old ass said: Better to know the Devil you know than the one you Don't Know...

Now that we know that Devils lie in both parties.....and it's confirmed and verified...it's easier to know how to deal. Before was "Shadow Boxing"...with hope that your opponent was honest and dealing fairly. The Opponents are now OUT of the SHADOW....and yeah we took bad licks not knowing who we were boxing with for a very long time.

But,that's a revelation... something that can be worked with going forward. It's a good thing to be able to identify enemies... One can plan a strategy...figure out the odds and work towards a clever defeat..long term.

It's something to look forward to in these dark times. Those of us who at least have enough knowledge to now see what it all is...give an advantage.

We might also decide it's not worth it..and make other plans. But, there is that choice, now that we know. PLANS.

[martymar64]

138. That's not a bad idea Will. I think I might take one too

The past two years has been even more painful than the previous ten (I counted the Impeachment circus as the start point for this little rodeo). I feel betrayed by the party that I supported for years. It feels like everything we as progressives have worked for has been for naught.

I care more than many folks that I know, but I have to disconnect from it before I'm overtaken by despair. Because if that comes, then Second Amendment solutions start to sound good.

I'll keep an eye out for developments and occasionally lurk or comment, but I think I'll devote much more time to getting laid instead. I think my efforts at that will pay off much better than trying to affect the political system.

Keep up the good fight. See you when I come back.

[WilliamPitt]

314. I dig your sig line.

No more secrets.

:toast:

[myrna minx]

27. I understand where you are coming from.

Now that the Democratic party is enabling the destruction of Social Security and is now touting trickle down economics as a job generator, I don't even know where to go anymore. :-(

[Doremus]

122. +1

Ain't it the truth. :(

[RoseMead]

28. Yes, sort of

It's not that I don't care anymore, because I care as much as I ever did. But I'm very, very tired, and depressed.

[Individualist]

30. "starting"? I realized that a long time ago.

[LiberalLoner]

31. Not so much that I don't care, but feeling overwhelmed and hopeless about the future. n/t K&R

[Lucian]

33. I'm starting to find I don't care about most things anymroe...

except my school work. It's all getting frustrating and I hate having to care all the time. I just want to be like everyone else and not give a damn anymore and be happy. I know that's not a good approach, but it's better than having manufactured happiness by taking antidepressants.

The only thing I should do in the world of politics is do my duty and vote and leave it at that.

[MindPilot]

34. I was thinking of writing a similar post during my drive to work this morning

I want to go off-grid politically; it has become much like football. I watch and it's really neat-o when my team wins, but beyond that, I'm trying hard to not give a shit.

Voting has become like sitting in front of a slot machine and thinking, "ok, this pull is going to be the big win; I'm going to get back everything I've lost. Oh shit, another five bucks gone..."

[Smarmie Doofus]

38. There's cause for hope, imo, but not with the current "two party"...

... system.

The current administration is not even on the same page as I... and I consider myself a mainstream... more or less traditional ( FDR, Henry Wallace, RFK, EMK, < anti-war, pro-minority rights, pro union etc. etc. etc.).

What we have in DC now is NOT my party. Seems to me there's at least three huge ideological divisions in US politics today.:

1. Far right , cultural, religious, pro war, American supremacy, etc etc...... i.e the Republican Party. ( Palin, teabaggers, etc.)

2. Pro-war, pro-corporation, pro economic elite , non-religious, non-culturally conservative. ( Obama, et al and the rw of the national DEM party along w. a few GOPers who can cross over easily. Big $$$, and all it implies, basically. ) This is the *new* emerging entity.

3. Traditional DEM mainstream. ( see above.).

I'm for keeping the DEM Party and encouraging RW DEMS to strike out on their own as a distinct third party. They've strayed, ideologically speaking; we, for the most part haven't.

It's time for three parties representing three fairly distinct views of the world.

But I'm staying put.

[patrice]

43. I think there's agreement on this; the question is how best to get there, without hurting a bunch of

people who have already been hurt as much as they can take and who will, therefore, endure the biggest consequences from our actions.

That's an important question not only morally, but also practically in terms of movement building, because once you have set such a dynamic in motion and people who don't know much better about anything get hurt even more, for something they can't even begin to see, let alone calculate any even remotely possible chance of success - those people become, at minimum a dead weight on wherever it is that you're trying to go and at worst your confirmed dyed-in-the-wool ENEMIES. So ****IF**** Success of any kind IS the goal (?????????) one must take into account the probability of what kind of which factors that WILL reduce the possibility of success. Increased suffering, substantial harm, and violence are BIG factors that WILL harm outcomes, almost 100% definitely to the advantage of the thing that we are fighting.

The task is HOW to be purely committed in a practical effective manner within a corrupt system and my guess is that first and foremost it is essential that we stick together, instead of fighting one another to the disadvantage of shared goals.

[MedicalAdmin]

82. One extra party would change everything

Yours is a good idea

[Smarmie Doofus]

376. But it should be RW DEMS that *start* the 3rd party.

We have tradition... and a whole lot of other things, like "logic" , "reason" etc .... on our side.

[freshwest]

42. I stopped being angry

Some time back. It's all been about growing up for me. As the old saying goes, it's hell to grow up in public. Now I'm just looking for a different direction. I think there are definitely hopes for change but not from these people who have garnered so much of our time and energy. By losing an interest in political life, we are giving up a connection to the world, feeling as if we are no longer part of something greater than ourselves. It's hard to shift to make.

Politics cover things that are truly important to large numbers of people. To me. To my family. A lot of why these things were important to me, was fear. Fear of not having a home, a job, something to eat. The means to make those things happen. So much fear, so much being driven to be part of their machine.

I still have some fear, but also I've just come to accept my own mortality and that of my family. In a hundred years or maybe even fifty, it will be as if we never existed. And will any of the things we fought about still be here? And why?

I never believed any politician or leader could save me, that any particular personality, no matter how noble in words and deeds, could make the sky open up for me. Did those who have the power grasped a kind of mathematical way of relating to their fellow humans as tools years ago while we believed we were united?

Not that I don't love these discussions. I've done demonstrations, organizing and many other things trying to see that the right things get done. Since I've been doing it all my life, I wonder if I ever changed anything, wonder what I missed out on.

Okay, maybe I've gone from denial to anger to fear to depression. I'm sorry, that's not well expressed. But I can understand where you're coming from.

[salinen]

44. Hope and Change?

and the check is in the mail. Lying isn't attractive.

[krabigirl]

46. Never. But i do want to leave the country.

[no limit]

47. The problem is I love this country. My parents worked their ass off to get us here

[closeupready]

48. DC is corrupt. It probably has always been thus.

But there is no way around that fact. And what that means is that things don't work on principle or on the basis of what's fair - they work on the basis of who is paying the most money to whom. (That is what corruption is. Look it up.) And this is why many of our elected officials say whatever they have to in order to get elected, but they will turn right around and do THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY JUST SAID, if that is what their paymasters want them to do.

Or am I being too cynical? If so, I apologize.

[patrice]

56. There IS an anti-dote to "who is paying the most money"; it's NUMBERS OF PERSONS IN THE STREETS

and I know there's going to be several people come and say something to the effect "We did that and they ignored us" and to that I say, "No we didn't, because what we need to do here is to do it right." That's MUCH MORE PEOPLE committed over and over and over again PEACEFULLY over a much longer period of time and with the right kinds of process oriented follow-up/pressure.

[closeupready]

63. This is a good point.

When Eartha Kitt told Lady Bird Johnson in the 60's during a White House event that sending American kids to Vietnam to die was driving them to smoke pot, she was actually blacklisted and practically run out of the country. Five years later, everyone was a peacenik, the Vietnam War was evil and Kitt's words would have seemed quite tame in comparison with what was being said in daily protests on campuses and all over the US and the world, actually. The protests then were sustained and big.

[patrice]

69. All of us need to evaluate the kind of CHANGE this implies in our own lives. The things we are

being called to DO under *OUR* *OWN* leadership. How do we do this?

Personally, I think it does involve taking advantage of this situation, rather than just repeating old dynamics with different characters. As long as we don't stick together, that's all we're going to do. We need to talk about priorities and process.

[im1013]

168. Hedges: Every Act of Rebellion Helps Tear Down Our Corrupt System

http://www.alternet.org/world/149171/hedges%3A_every_act_of_rebellion_helps_tear_down_our_corrupt_system/


:mad:

[PufPuf23]

50. I feel the despair. Don't expect things to get better for the USA or me before croaking.

POTUS Obama and the "successes" of the D's since taking the House in 2006 is more than discouraging.

Frankly, the pols are wasting time and resources and they are passing regressive legislation with some frosting and domestic and foreign policy sucks regardless of who is in charge and will as long as the policy is neo-liberal or neo-conservative.

[T Wolf]

51. I have firmly and totally moved into the camp of "let it crash" because this "reform" is

accomplishing nothing except continuing the problem because there is no "reform."

The DemoPub party is in control and will not allow any significant modification to the system they both have established.

My hope is that things get so bad that enough people get fed up enough to take action. And I think that is what will happen because those in charge are so removed from the reality that the 99% of us face and so god damned greedy that they cannot stop themselves from killing the golden goose. Once it is dead and those golden eggs stop landing in their lap, it will take a little time to bring them down. But it will happen.

All empires fall.

[BzaDem]

55. People have saying "it will all come crashing down" for decades. Republicans think the same thing

how eventually the "redistributionist state" will come crashing down.

[ecstatic]

57. Absolutely not. The sky is not falling

Relax. Forget about politics for a while, as you can't seem to handle it.

[valerief]

60. Every three weeks. I wish our military fought for us instead of the 1%. nt

[blindpig]

62. Hubris and desperation.

Hubris - They think we have no option than to submit.

Desperation - The inherent contradictions of Capitalism pile up, one bubble is only alleviated by making another. They cast about for something to invest in, to profit from, but the workings of capital have rendered previous venues profitless as improved production methods and competition drive prices into the ground. So they use the government to squeeze us for direct transfers, extort us for our health care, poison our water to profit on natural gas, turn education into a cash cow, allow BP to walk away from it's obligations and make war for markets, resources and the profits of the MIC.

We don't need hope, that's for dopes. We need to realize that we are on our own, that our strength is in our numbers and in solidarity. When we do that the writing is on the wall.

[Zoeisright]

64. Yes. I'm at the point where if someone starts whining about problems, I just ask:

who did you vote for? If they mention any repuke, then I just say, "Well, then you got what you wanted." and turn away.

[asdjrocky]

67. That's not what this OP is about.

Really, do you not see that? It's the same result either way.

[True_Blue]

65. That's the way I feel

It feels like the dominoes are already set-up in advance for us. I won't stay home for the next election though and if there are no other options, then I'll just write in none-of-the-above as a protest vote.

[theophilus]

66. Oh, I care. Just not in a constructive way. n/t

[femrap]

68. We are all witnessing the

Decline of the American Empire. The wealthy are stealing whatever isn't nailed down. No one in DC cares about you or me. We're on our own.

I'm in Dumfukistan, the former state of Ohio, and just going out to do simple errands is a pain. Everyone is in a sour mood.

I just want to go into hiding.:hide:

I used to go from Anger to Despair. Now, I've reached Acceptance. It's over.

I actually hope that Canada buys Ohio, I mean Dumfukistan.

[MedicalAdmin]

84. I can pretty much certify that Canada isn't interested.

Unless the state is pacific Northwest, great lakes or north east.

Owe high owe is shit outa luck.

[femrap]

333. Get out a map

....we're on a Great Lake.

And we got lots of ag....55% of the state.

Anyway, I want the French Canadians to buy us. They know FOOD and WINE.

eta: 821 posts and you speak for the Prime Minister?

[martymar64]

148. Before you go into hiding, stock up on guns and ammo

Gotta keep yourself safe.

Something to ponder, what makes a country greater, it's government or it's people?


Governments come and go. Ask any Soviet citizen.

[femrap]

331. It's the people...

but being here in Dumfukistan, it's rare I come across people who 'get it.'

With the coming cuts to SS and Medicare, some of the older folks may awake from the Faux News.

I never in my life thought I'd have to own a gun.

Alas.

[hfojvt]

71. you need some inspiration

here's a guy who doesn't believe all the cynics who say it can't be done

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47MKGOPP4Zo












Sorry about that, it is posted to try to make HIM (and his supporters) feel ashamed, if that is possible.

[OHdem10]

72. Yep, for a few weeks now.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

73. I said as much the other day and I meant it. nt

[laughingliberal]

74. Yep. Ever since the public option went down, I've not thought we'd see anything better than...

Republican lite (at best) policies passed or even proposed in a lot of cases.

It looks very much like all the world leaders agreed to the IMF/World Bank demands at the G-20 in Toronto and it's a done deal no matter how much the public objects.

Fully expect the proposals of the CFC to be law by the end of 2011.

[Forkboy]

76. I tried it but, sadly, not caring is even more depressing than caring is.

[Capitalocracy]

157. I'm with you.

Discouragement doesn't get rid of the impulse to care. I can't help but care.

It goes a long way towards keeping me from doing anything other than sitting on my ass and complaining, though.

[Forkboy]

171. I can't help it either, though I admit to times when I wish I could shut it off.

I see arguments made here sometimes that seem so easy, so free from responsibility, that I admit to being tempted. But I've tried that approach, going out of my way to disengage from it all. It doesn't work, at least not for me. I know many who it does work for though, and I'm torn between envy and pity for them.

[SidDithers]

77. 60 Democrats in the Senate?....

When was that?

Sid

[no limit]

79. 60 members of the senate that caucused with the democrats

if you choose not to count Lieberman and Sanders. Sorry I wasn't technical enough in my OP.

[BzaDem]

81. But you yourself would call Nelson/Lieberman/etc closet Repukes. If that is so, then how can you

at the same time claim we had 60 Democrats in anything but a technical sense?

It would seem highly strange to blame the Democratic party for Republicans and what you would call closet Repukes not voting with the Democrats.

[no limit]

83. I'm not sure I remember calling Nelson a closet republican

he IS a democrat. Now do I think he is a corporist whore? Sure.

But take the healthcare bill for example. They kept telling us we needed 60 votes and that passing the bill using reconciliation was unthinkable. It would shut down the senate and anyone that suggested such a thing didn't know what they were talking about. And what happened? They didn't pay attention in massachusetts and Scott Brown got elected. So what happened? Suddenly reconciliation was the only way to pass the bill. And what did they do? They didn't improve the bill at all. They acted as if they still needed 60 votes. It was pretty much the exact same bill they wrote when they were telling us they could only get it done with 60 votes.

I would love for someone to explain that to me. If you are willing to then please, by all means.

[BzaDem]

89. Sure.

The reason we couldn't use reconciliation to pass Healthcare in the first place was because it was impossible. You couldn't ban discrimination on the basis of pre-existing conditions using reconciliation, because it didn't qualify under the Byrd rule. It wasn't that "the bill would shut down the Senate" -- it was more the Senate would shut down the bill.

Now, what ended up passing under reconciliation was NOT the healthcare bill. That passed with 60 votes (the only way it could pass). What ended up passing was essentially a small House amendment TO the Senate bill, that just contained budgetary changes.

Why wasn't the public option bill put in the amendment? You should ask the House, not the Senate. Because before the House would even consider passing the Senate bill, they got a promise from the Senate, in writing, that they wouldn't make any changes to the House reconciliation amendment. If the House wanted a public option in March of 2010, they could have put it in the reconciliation amendment. Now, I think the public option would have died in the Senate anyway, due to the Byrd rule (which strips out under reconciliation EVERY LINE that doesn't raise or increase spending, meaning any public option attempt would have so many holes that it would likely be unworkable). But the House didn't even let the Senate try, since they made the Senate promise that they wouldn't touch the House reconciliation amendment, and the House reconciliation amendment didn't have the public option.

Why didn't the House let the Senate try?

Because they couldn't pass the public option in March of 2010 through the House. I don't know if you remember the House vote count situation in March of 2010, but they need around 5-10 previous healthcare bill opponents (from the vote in November 2009) to switch from "NO" to "YES" to even get it passed. The reason they gave to their constituents as to why they switched was primarily "the old bill had a public option, and I wouldn't support that. The new bill doesn't though, so I'll support that."

You need to remember that the House almost failed to pass the Senate bill. It was on a knife's edge. The only reason it fell off the knife's edge on the "pass" side in the first place (rather than the "fail" side) was a tiny single digit number of blue dogs who switched from "NO" to "YES." It was those blue dog public option opponents that controlled the fate of the bill in their hands.

[no limit]

92. But the house did pass a public option

I don't buy the idea that if the house TRULY wanted the public option they would have voted against it when they had already passed it once. A little pressure and coordination from the white house and senate leadership would have been all that would be required.

You mentioned the Byrd rule, which simply means any bill must be deficit neutral. Were the Bush tax cuts deficit neutral? And if you believe the CBO the healthcare bill would save us 1 trillion over 10 years. Plenty of money for the weak public options they did consider. So I also don't buy the idea that the public option would have violated the Byrd rule.

Finally, if you want to blame the house that's perfectly fine by me. I blame all of them.

Sorry if I misunderstood anything you said and thanks for the detailed reply.

[BzaDem]

96. The Byrd rule means FAR more than the bill has to be deficit neutral.

It means every single line in the bill must either be a change in spending or a change in revenues. AND, if a line does change spending or revenues, it will still be thrown out if the primary purpose of the line is to do something other than change revenues. (For example, a line telling insurance companies they can't discriminate, and charges them a 1 dollar tax, won't qualify, since the 1 dollar tax is just a subtext for the regulation.) Even a line prohibiting (or allowing) dollars going to abortions, which would in theory change the deficit, wouldn't qualify, since the primary purpose of that line is to change abortion policy (not to save the government money). The Byrd rule is a 6-part rule that applies to every line of the bill. It was specifically constructed back in the 70s to prevent things like what you are talking about.

"I don't buy the idea that if the house TRULY wanted the public option they would have voted against it when they had already passed it once."

I respect your decision not to. But you should. There were several people who supported the public option the first time, who later decided they wouldn't support ANY bill. That meant the 5-10 blue dogs we needed to switch from NO to YES controlled the fate of the bill. The House would have been able to pass a public option the second time if people like Mike Arcuri/Zach Spence/Lynch from MA/Lipinski from IL/etc didn't go from a YES the first time to a NO the second time.

You make it sound like it was so easy to pass the Senate bill through the House, and just a little more coordination would have allowed a public option. But it wasn't easy at all. It took two months, and know one knew whether it would pass for fail until the DAY of the vote. Huge amount of coordination was required, but that was just to get ANY bill through. The simple fact is that the "NO" to "YES" switchers controlled the bill. They are the ones that defeated the public option. Not the rest of the Democratic caucus in the House who wanted one, and not the 51-53 Senators in the Senate who wanted one.

When Republicans (and conservadems) kill Democratic priorities, they really get two for one. They kill the priority, but they also get the base to blame the Democratic party for their defeat (as opposed to who really deserves blame, the Republicans). Then they laugh their ass off about it. We should try not to play right into the Republicans' hands on this. The idea that the Democratic party writ large killed the public option (which some people here think because the complicated procedure makes what happened hard to understand) is EXACTLY the idea the Republicans want you to have.

[no limit]

286. If I understand you correctly you are saying passing a public option is impossible /w reconciliation

because it is not related to budget.

Then why did programs such as SCHIP and medicare advantage pass using reconciliation?

Now if it is true you can't pass regulation using reconciliation then fine, don't pass regulation. Set up a public option which would set up strong competition and force insurance companies to better regulate themselves because of the competition. And you might be right that eventually the same democrats that voted for the public option also voted against it down the road. But that's why I say good planning and good coordination would have fixed that. But I don't think this administration ever truly considered the public option as a major thing for them, hell they said so.

And the reason the senate was so difficult was because from the gate they said they would not use reconciliation. Then when they finally had to they switched plans mid stream. Now you had to have the house vote again and all the work the senate did was in shambles. And actually from what I remember the reason house democrats were opposed to the public option the second time around was specifically because they were told not to support it by leaders in the senate and the white house.

[Marblehead]

80. I am really sick of the greed

[Scurrilous]

85. Game

Over

Man

:eyes:

[keepfreespeechalive]

86. Who doens't care about the Democratic Party anymore?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but who the fuck cares about the Democratic Party anymore? We worked hard for a Democratic president and a Democratic majority in both chambers of Congress, and for what? Almost all of the Senate Democrats voted not to block Obama's extension of the Bush tax cuts for the rich. What's the point of it all if we're just going to get sold out anyways? One thing that has been made abundantly clear in the past few days: it's not our party. Sure, we put all the work into helping it retake power, we're its core supporters, we're proud of its past accomplishments because they're our accomplishments, we're Democrats, and we hate the other major party. But the Democratic Party is not our party. It belongs somebody else with a lot more money.

[closeupready]

91. Since every Democratic Senator is a multi-millionaire, they benefit from the tax cuts, too.

So don't think for one minute that their votes aren't self-serving, from time to time.

[keepfreespeechalive]

94. This isn't from time to time, this is the money

It is everything that matters, it pays (or does not pay for) everything.

[d_b]

124. me

we need a labor party; anything but this piece of shit we have.

[AllyCat]

216. There are a few good ones, but most of them make my stomach hurl

I can't believe we had all three "houses" and ended up in WORSE shape than we were to start: Social Security on the way out, a health insurance mandate, and an escalation of the war.

I'm so bummed right now and I know I'm not alone. People I work with are saying, man, Obama has lost me. I tell them the whole lot of them (save our rep) are completely without merit. That said, voting Republican won't help. I will be leaving the POTUS selection on my 2012 ballot blank, unless we have a reasonable challenger that will, without much doubt, support US, not the corporations.

[newspeak]

367. yeah, and the other party also belongs to the same masters

except, I think the masters love the "other" party better than the democratic party. Especially, because they're in your face, bogus "free market", deregulating, anti-environment, anti-poor, anti-mainstreet sociopathic greedheads. Hey, and after all of that, they still have this unwitting base that believes that wealthy are special, they shouldn't pay taxes and maybe, just maybe they'll be like them or some of that unearned (some corrupt) wealth will trickle on them.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

87. I hear you. I have to force myself to care. I sure want to give up.

Things are very depressing right now.

[InvisibleTouch]

88. Well, truthfully...

...I'm just too tired and too busy surviving to put a lot of effort into outrage anymore. There are certainly things I still care about, but I've whittled them down to my absolute priorities - and even those, I realize I can't really do that much about. What I *can* do, is the best I can for myself and my family. If I have a spare moment, I will sign a petition; if I have some spare change, I will send it to those organizations that most represent my values - but more and more I consciously avoid those reports that I know will just upset me, that I can't do anything about, and that will take energy away from survival.

[mochajava666]

93. The hardest part is keeping a brave face to my kids

I, too, was so excited about Obama and Biden bringing hope for the future and change in the way we deal with the present.

His failed presidency is a mockery of his brilliant campaign, and the progressive ideals that energized this nation.

I only see blindly loyal supporters left, happily drinking the sand because they don't know the difference.

[Phlunk]

95. I agree, it's hard to be optimistic

the democrats haven't done much to stop the repugs, we need a new socialist party..........I suspect though it may already be too late.

[robinlynne]

97. sometimes. But give yourself a break. Then the feeling will pass when you

find a way to actively engage and feel like you are making a difference. Fighting back fixes that feeling, but sometimes we run out of energy.

[pa28]

99. You probably picked a good time to start taking "Fukitol".

I have a feeling the anger and alienation you see around this place will be multiplied when the President's tax proposal comes out. Out in the real world anger is going to grow too as the public realizes the old social contracts have been broken at their expense and they are not going to come back.

The good news is you'll have the opportunity to help re-build a better society in the wake of the disruptions that are bound to come our way.

[haydukelives]

100. I am

[HomerRamone]

101. Take an axe to all the unverifiable Republican-owned voting machines! nt

[davidthegnome]

102. Yes

I didn't care about politics until I was around 16, right around the time of 9/11. That did it for a lot of young people, made us sit up and start paying more attention. I remember watching Gore debate Bush, I remember hearing Bush say, "I want to rebuild the military to make peace." and thinking to myself that that man was dangerous.

Enter eight years under Bush, all the disaster that went along with it... every time I went into the voting booth I voted democrat. In my area of Maine some of it is fairly pointless because there's only one person on the ballot for a lot of important positions. I kept doing this because I believed in (and still believe) what I felt were the principles of the democratic party. Helping those in need - creating jobs, protecting our environment. It took me some time before I realized the difference between democrat and progressive.

In the little town I grew up in, Caribou, we had a convention and we were asked (all 25 or so of us) who was willing to go to Augusta to support our candidate. I looked around, no one stood up. I thought about what Obama had said, why I believed in him, his stance against the war in Iraq, his seeming desire to make peace with our enemies and speak with them. I considered his idea that health-care should be available for everyone. These things went through my mind in a flash, and I stood up. Unemployed, not a damn dollar in my pocket, reliant on my parents for my survival, but I stood. I was 24 at the time.

When I stood up, my Father stood up next to me - he may have been for Clinton, but in that moment I greatly admired his courage (and still do). Then another man stood up, an elderly gentleman who lives just down the road from me. He is also broke. His struggles are unimaginable to me - and he's been at this game of politics for far longer. At the time I wondered and hoped (perhaps arrogantly) whether my stand had given him the courage to stand up.

I felt as if for the first time in my life, a chance had come along to do something good, to make a difference. Hope and change. God, I wish I could have that feeling back, that belief, that conviction.

I went to the convention with both of my parents standing for Clinton, the elderly gentleman and I for Obama. As it turns out - the computers crashed at the convention and we got mixed up and had to stand five hundred + people to a burning hot room for hours while they straightened it out. I went outside and got soaked, had to get my parents to buy me a new pair of shoes just so we could go have dinner - my old ones (very old ones) were ruined.

Hell, it was worth it, so I believed at the time. I would have stripped and run down the street naked for that promise I believed in. I would have done nearly anything. I spent hours arguing with Clinton supporters - educating myself, arguing with McCain supporters, attempting to educate others. I spent hours and hours putting up posters and making phone calls. I spent what little money I earned with my odd jobs making donations to the campaign. I bought the pins, I wore them proudly wherever I went. I nearly got into a shouting match with a Priest.

I eagerly (and nervously) watched the Presidential inauguration. I wept from home with the people in the streets as we saw what we believed was a shining moment of victory and triumph for us all. After that....

After that I watched as the health care debate quickly went from demanding the public option to it "not being essential" to it being tossed out altogether. There went my hopes for health care for myself and so many others. I was furious, disappointed, sad. I had some faith left, there was the Iraq war - if we could end it, bring our troops home and stop the ceaseless blood shedding... again I was disappointed, sad, and furious. Now I am watching as the tax cuts for the rich are extended while the republicans hold hostage the unemployed as a means to further their own power and wealth. Now I watch as the President who I believed would stand for me - stand against them, I watch him crumble and agree to a compromise that is no compromise at all. I watch as he calls me and so many others sanctimonious, purist. I watch as he belittles us.

I admit it, I am defeated. My hope was misplaced and is now all but gone. As for change, it is the opposite of the change we were promised. I now admit in shame that I was wrong. That I supported a man who fooled millions of people into believing in him and then threw them under the bus. I am sorry. I am sorry that the youth movement was not strong enough to hold together in spite of his capitulation. I am sorry that today's youth does not have the inspiration and courage that was seen in the sixties. We almost had it - we came so damn close.

A sinking feeling? Ladies and Gentlemen, I don't know about you, but I'm damn well sunk.

[Kaleko]

220. A heartfelt post.

It's good to see people get real with their true feelings around here.

Welcome to DU, David.

[emilyg]

103. I'm worn out. Don't care anymore.

[harun]

179. Me too. Been betrayed by too many elected officials.

About the only one we could trust, Grayson, is voted out come next year. So to hell with them.

[proReality]

104. I feel like Obama...

...laid down in front of the GOP and said, "Take me, I'm yours."

I'm thoroughly disgusted with this administration and the media. This is no longer the America I was raised to believe in. If I were younger I'd leave and never look back.

[MissDeeds]

117. I agree

I never thought the US would sink so far so fast. This country is unrecognizable.

[HughBeaumont]

105. K & R.

If anything, Obama's presidency sure exposed the plutonomy in all its ugly, wrinkly, skin-hanging, unshaven nudity. And 2010 sure brought on America's collective apathy and stupidity in all it's loving splendor.

[emulatorloo]

106. Yes now that Limbaugh, Palin, and Romney are attacking the "Obama Tax Package"

Actually, now that I think again, that's sort of humorous.

[Nay]

107. Yup. I totally empathize. My only hope now is to go to Canada (I'm

a dual citizen). I'm in the process of applying for my son's Canadian citizenship, and I hope we all decide to leave. I sincerely feel this country has lost its mind.

[mikehiggins]

108. Still care, but gave up hope

Okay, I'm an old line pessimist but I think that we are very slowly moving towards a violent, terroristic civil war in this nation, and I think the people who could prevent it are too busy patting themselves on the back for being rich and accepted by TPTB.

Anyone foresee a wildcard right-winger blowing up a whole federal building as an anniversary tribute to Waco? Do you really think he was/is the only one?

If TPTB misjudge or overstep (and that is inevitable) the shit will really hit the fan. As Alinsky said, the problem starts with the "have a little, want more" crowd and we're making more and more of them every year.

You don't have to be a weatherman to see the way the wind is blowing.

[Faith No More]

109. Yep, when you vote in a Democrat and

he governs like a repug, what's the point?

[NC_Nurse]

173. Great screen name. And I agree totally.

[csziggy]

110. Felt like that for about a year now.

Flashback to how I felt 1972 to 1974 and beyond.

Politicians are megalomaniacs - they only care about themselves and getting re-elected. I don't think I will be willing to work for another campaign even if my health would allow.

[jeaps]

111. There is no hope for this country

when the a lousy 3% increase in the marginal income tax rate for those who have a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and enough disposable income to educate their kids causes such a ruckus. I'm always amazed when I hear people talking about "American Exceptionalism" and how wonderful this country is, but don't want to pay for any of the things that make it great.

[Bette Noir]

112. I haven't reached apathy, yet. I'm still in anger.

I've given up hoping that Mr. President will be the agent for change that he campaigned as.

[webDude]

113. Yes! ...Look to the ones who you care about, and who care about you, for strength.

[immune]

115. The sinking feeling.

glub glub.

[ejbr]

116. ditto n/t

[simon1012]

118. wow..... you just read my mind!

I am absolutely agree with you.
I don't like Republicans, but I have to admit that they are more united than the Democrat.
On the other hand, we had 60 seat in the Senate and 70+ in the house, but we couldn't even establish a proper health reform bill, instead we got this watered-down reform.

[mstinamotorcity]

119. No, I still care. I just do things

differently now. I became pro-active in my true Democracy. I let go. I let go of all the things that were not true about our Government and society and the rich. When you look at things as they truly are you can never look at the world we live in the same way. So no matter how many lovely parks and birds and flags flying in the wind, I will always know the true America. I will help those that I can and try to direct those that I can't to someone who can. I will give food when needed and will spend my money wisely that I have left. I will not succumb to the whims of people who have everything and give nothing in return. I keep most of my money in my community. I make it a point to decrease my consumption of fuel. I will try and take back every dime I have ever given to big business. Got rid of my 401k 2007. Got in a credit union the year Dubya was elected. Got rid of all credit cards and started paying down balances. Will not get another one. Will not allow them to charge me anymore imaginary fees.Save my money and purchase in Cash. If I must use a Walmart, only when I go see my sister, I spend as little as possible and stick to sale items, I guess I am one of the customers Walmart says uses them for sale products only.Smart Move. I will never get tired of seeing them lose my dollars. I will do my best to buy American Blue when I can. No I won't feed the Corporate bear any longer. Now the rest of the people can mope around,rant,and shoot the television, but I choose to fight with the Chamber of Commerce by not commercing with them.

[MissDeeds]

120. I'm with you, no limit

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

K&R

[Canuckistanian]

121. I'm sick of people like Franken

They breeze into Congress, make a big show, fight like hell, then eventually sell out... and fade out.

I did think Grayson was different, though. He was in-your-face BRASH and unapologetic. And well-off enough to NOT give a shit about where his next campaign donation was coming from.

There needs to be about 20 more of HIM before real change happens.

[Ikonoklast]

123. To give up 20 more seats in Congress?

Did the tactics employed by Grayson...work?

He is now, for whatever reason, an EX-Congressman, and has as much influence on legislation as I do.

[liberation]

136. No, you're correct we need more Blue Dogs

who won how many seats again?


BTW: 50% of the Blue Dogs lost their jobs, 90+% of the progressive caucus kept theirs. Obviously the problem must be with progressive campaigning!

[Ikonoklast]

143. The post was about Grayson, and his losing tactics.

Please try to concentrate.

[liberation]

161. And my post was about how the opposite tactics have an even lower success rate

Not really that hard to understand even with little to no concentration.

[Canuckistanian]

193. Uh, no

I'd like to see people VOTE 20 more Graysons in.

And as for "tactics" look at any random Repub Congressman on any day. They aren't exactly shy about telling you their EXACT wingnutty views on ANYTHING.

Grayson was defeated by a combination of media and Citizen's United money.

[mstinamotorcity]

242. That might make a legislative

difference. But it won't matter. Because people haven't changed their thought processing.

[BrklynLiberal]

345. I would LOVE to see THAT!!!

His outspokenness is what got him targeted by the repukes.

[NuttyFluffers]

125. Through the despair comes a greater strength...

you CAN care and NOT CARE at the same time, and become more dangerous as a result. you can care about goals, values, compassion, etc. and choose not to care about details, micromanaging, pragmatism, backseat driving, etc.

essentially, you can choose to love with open arms.

you can choose to take a leap of faith and fly.

you can choose to live without fear.

and results don't matter. you'll do it anyways because you choose to -- and the results will care for themselves. to embrace it all by letting go.

it's scary, but it's liberating, too.

go, take a break. find your passion. and then rejoin fearlessly for there is no longer anything left to lose. :)

:hug:

[upi402]

126. decades of struggle and frustration

like trying to describe color to the blind while putting the tooth paste back in the tube...

yep, don't give a damn sometimes cuz i care so much about this once great country.

i'm selling the last house and getting out, if even possible at this point.

[Desertrose]

127. You'll get used to it......

...but I still think thinks are going to change for the better...maybe not from the bunch we have in office now , but there will be change for the better. I still believe that.

[caseymoz]

128. Let me tell you what I actually suspect (my paranoid novel)

Oil companies, private security companies, arms dealers etc. and the wealthy .1 percent have figured out that at the rate of environmental degradation and depletion of planet-wide natural resources that ninety-five percent of the population on earth cannot be saved.

I mean, it's not difficult to figure that out. We have an assumption that they just aren't convinced, and obviously, there must be dissenters among them, but for the most part they know exactly what's happening to the earth and what they're think tanks and front organizations put out is just disinformation to allow them to continue what they're doing.

So, why would they do that? Suppose they have sat down with calculators and discovered that at least 95 percent of the human population on earth is doomed and there's no way to stop it humanely? They're making sure they and their families are in the five percent that aren't doomed. So, they are gathering as much wealth, power, and military strength as they can to hold the rest of us off in anticipation of "the break." Meanwhile, they don't care for us, because as far as they're concerned, we're already dead.

All else that they're orchestrating, like skepticism over global warming is just disinformation, and they've found useful idiots to put it out. Maybe all the ideology about de-regulated capitalism is just disinformation, too.

Maybe my guess is wrong, maybe it's some other reason, maybe it's just for power, but something really changed about the wealthy and their strategy between 1970 and now. Why? For organizations like The Skull and Bones, this sounds like exactly what they would do if the information about the environment were, indeed, that bad.

This would mean that no reform implemented within government is going to go anywhere.

If so, this is what went wrong with the 20th Century: Space travel never worked out. It was never the safety valve for excess population and the source of resource that we needed it to be to save our society.

[Amonester]

211. When 95 percent of the human population on earth will perish

these silly 1 percenters won't be able to survive much. Why? Simple.

They.Don't.Know.How.
They.Never.Really.Worked.By.Themselves.
They.Only.Know.How.To.Steal.Big.Numbers.On.Papers.

What will they eat when there will be nothing left to eat? Money? Gold? Diamonds?

[caseymoz]

213. Maybe they hope there's enough left to support them.

And the reason why I said 95 percent rather than 99 percent is that they need soldiers and others. The wealthy, or their children, are also as capable of learning survival as anyone.

I'm not saying it's a good plan or it will work, I'm saying that it would explain the level of deception since the 70s, which BTW, corresponds to when they cut back, that is, gave up on the space program to bail out their economic policy. It also explains why they don't seem to get it about global warming and other environmental disasters. They're not dumb, and there's no reason why they would be selectively dumb about this.

[HuskiesHowls]

129. The more things change....the more they stay the same...

It seems to me that the only meaningful change in the political atmosphere in this country will come, once again, at the point of a gun.

[WiffenPoof]

130. I Feel Much Like You Do

In fact, I was going to post a similar thread along the same lines.

I'm close to turning off the TV and taking a break from DU...pretty much isolating myself from anything political. It feels like things are going to happen regardless of my participation.

One of the things that really bothers me is that I know exactly where the Repugs are coming from. I can always count on them siding with the rich and powerful. What is so troubling to me is that I never expected my own party to be so spineless. That came as a complete surprise to me. It is the feeling of betrayal that I can't seem to shake.

My anger over such a long period of time has turned into fatigue. I'm tired...tired of the fight. I'm tired of a fight that I know I will probably lose.

Sorry for sounding so down. I know that over time, my passion will return and I will join the fight once again.

-PLA

[Skittles]

131. I wish, but no

I will always care

[EndElectoral]

132. We've gone from "Yes, We Can". to "...But, only if they agree"

Frankly, I'm tired.

I have resolved to push hard for a primary candidate to oppose Obama. I can't vote Republican. I can't vote Obama. It's quite dishearteneing.

[liberation]

137. Well...

... technically Obama never speicified what it was that they could do, or the direction of the change he was aiming for, or whether his hope was for good or bad things.

So he has kept his promises, as vague and abstract as they were, technically.

[immune]

155. You're right.

People (myself included) read whatever they wanted into his abstract and beautifully delivered campaign speeches. I've come to the conclusion that "belief" is where we always go wrong. Misplaced trust that hasn't been earned in any concrete way.

I just listened to a video of Russell Means (Lakota) speaking about 6000 years of patriarchal history, building pyramids of power with patriarchs controlling everything/one that exists beneath their lofty pinnacle and how each and every one of these pyramids of power eventually collapsed violently under its own weight, only to see another one erected, to become as evil and corrupt as the one that went before. He compared the failures of patriarchal pyramid builders with the tens of thousands of years of indigenous matriarchal societies around the world that flourished naturally ... well, until they were destroyed by the patriarchs who are bent on destroying anything that gets in their way. Oh and don't forget the vilification process that went after to justify the destruction.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off topic but it seems the connectedness that's part of a matriarchal society may be, at least partly, what we're missing.

[bobbolink]

160. Exactly! It was a national rohrshock test.

:(

[defendandprotect]

133. That's exactly the way corporate fascists want you to feel .... defeated ....

powerless, unable to fight back --

Now you have to look back and say where did the selection process go wrong?

As Pelosi confirmed immediately after Election '06, on video ...

"Democrats were elected to end the war!"

Then what happened?

And most voters had the impression that Obama was going to change things for the better --

was that a big misunderstanding on the part of millions of voters -- or did they fail to

understand the real Obama unveiled immediately ATER Election '08?

Also agree that we've wasted a lot of time here over two years trying to decide if we

were being betrayed or not? Guess no one is asking that anymore!!

You're right -- we're pretty much at the point of the NEW DEAL being completely overturned

thanks to Obama --

And we're back in 1932 looking for another FDR -- while many still don't recognize that

we've had 50 plus years of right wing political violence which have taken our FDR's and

JFK's -- and which continues to knock out liberal leadership -- often now, before it even

has a chance to rise!

There's a lot of pain and suffering already -- and there will be a great deal more as

corporatists -- now led by a Democratic president? -- will be delivering up "third world

America" which, btw, used to be the GOP's wet dream.

We might also say that -- hey, Global Warming is probably going to knock us out faster than

those suicidal capitalists/Elites who created it and just sit back.

Maybe that's what everyone is going to decide to do --


What I can definitely agree with is that I care less about the Democratic Party every day --

but I do continue to look for liberal/progressive movement to take our country back to the LEFT

and to shortcircuit this fascism coming down on America.


:)

[grahamhgreen]

337. +1

[Sherman A1]

134. I do care, however

I have pretty much given up.

[liberation]

135. Ayup. I just throw my hands up in the air and just wave'em...

... like I just don't care.

:-)

[Swampguana]

139. Yes I am right with you on this

IMO it all comes down to education, the less intelligent people are the easier they are to manipulate. The more this country losses education the more it moves to be controlled by corporations. I hate saying that but it's just my opinion and Education seems to be the source of how this country is getting where it is.

[saracat]

140. I care but have given up on DC politics. I don't give a flying F**** about those who do not care

about the people. Unless someone better than me finds a way to bring up real "Change" from the bottom up, it doesn't matter. The mask was ripped off the face of a lot of pols when money entered the picture. That is what it is all about.Money.
The President didn't take federal funding for a reason and federally financed campaigns have gone the way of the dinosaur. Citizens United put the finishing touches on exposing both parties for what they are.
All the noise and protest are show. The WH in particular has reversed itself on just about every issue and never takes the blame for anything. All actions can be excused away. The message was very clear. "They don't care about us.". And they have said so , over and over. I no longer care about them.
Any Hill Staffer will tell you, the job of a Senator or Congressperson is to get reelected. the same is true for the Presidency. That is their only job and the only one that matters to them. Should your interests and theirs coincide, you will be very lucky but if it doesn't involve bags of money or fabulous PR, it isn't likely you will count. We are on our own.

[Tafiti]

142. The Onion feels your pain!

Nation's Liberals Suffering from Outrage Fatigue

It's from 2004, but still hilarious.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-liberals-suffering-from-outrage-fatigue,1190/

[davidthegnome]

145. It's sad

But there is an overwhelming amount of truth in that satire. I couldn't even crack a smile, because it just struck me as so damn true.

[BeliQueen]

144. Yes, Yes, A Thousand Times Yes

Thank you for putting in words how I have been feeling.

[TheeHazelnut]

146. things fall apart

Yeah, it's pretty depressing.

[tavalon]

255. The center doesn't hold

[bobbolink]

147. For the last number of years. It took me quite a while to realize that "progressives" just aren't

going to care about poverty, no matter how it is presented to them.

When it finally got through to me that that is the reality, I just don't give a flying fuck about much of anything.

Not that it matters.

[RowdyRacer]

153. Welcome to Reality...

The Democrats are NOT going to help us. They have proven since Obama was elected that they will tie themselves in knots to make sure they do not offend their corporate benefactors by helping the middle class.

I will say it one more time - THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DOES NOT GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOU!!!!

[johnlucas]

327. There are the so-called "progressives" & the real Progressives

I don't like political labels.
They're inaccurate & don't capture the complexity of people's views on life.

But if there's any one I'll accept, it'll be Progressive 'cause I'm about progress.
The Progress of Civilization. Social progress, economic progress.
For all people not just a few.

I care about poverty. I was raised poor & I am poor now.
I make my life comfortable by maximizing my budget skills & stretching dollars as far as they can go.

I care & I will find a way to break this machine.
That's why I damn that catchphrase called "Middle Class".
It's a word of betrayal to me. Nobody should accept that title.
They should see themselves as one & the same with The Poor.
Their money doesn't work for them, they work for their money. When the income stops, so does their quality of life.

I don't care about bullshit but I will never stop caring about justice.
This machine can be broken. This machine WILL be broken. And I will never stop caring about that goal.
John Lucas

[davidthegnome]

150. What can we do?

How do we regain our hope if we've lost it? Do we pick a new leader and start all over again only to pave the way for the same damn thing? I'm asking this question honestly, because I am at a loss. I want to believe we can do something, that I can do something, that everything I have done didn't count for nothing. Maybe I'm looking for guidance or leadership, I don't know. I do know that I feel incredibly overwhelmed - and taking a break - as I have done, only makes me feel worse because then I feel as if I am ignoring the needs of my people and the injustices done against them.

Can we revive the sixties? Would people be willing to get together in person and organize for the sake of real hope? Real change? We can do it ourselves, can't we? When we have been ignored and shunned in this way, what choice do we have but to band together and do something? I really want to. Being 26 and unemployed doesn't leave me many options however, I'm just so sick of feeling helpless.

[tavalon]

256. I don't believe any longer that we can change it nationally

After the shellacking I got from falling head over heels for a movement masquerading as a leader who was going to change the game, I am very hesitant to believe in anyone who acts as though he/she can lead us anywhere but off the cliff we're heading toward. Local is what I've realized. We need to create small communities and hopefully interlace them in such a way that we become the leaderless infrastructure. No, it isn't going to give us the luxuries some of us seem to think are birthrights, but we might survive and possibly even thrive in a very different way. Certainly, the insulated nuclear family needs to go the way of the dodo bird. It's a dead man walking.

[nannah]

159. i am 67. when i was a child there weren't beggars

on every street. there were beggars in india, not america. in the 60's i was an acitivist; i marched, organized, and began a war tax resistance group in the 60's. now, i am a social worker in a welfare office helping people get health care.

What is sad for me is that i don't see that things have gotten better. there are more people who are more poor with fewer options. the movement to harsher times happened during my lifetime, despite my efforts. i feel despair and am also tired of being angry.

[bobbolink]

174. The people you are working to help feel the same things... just more INTENSE.

[lonestarnot]

162. No, but I've been trying.

:(

[Autumn Colors]

164. First, I must adjust my tinfoil hat....

I do feel this way, but I can't help wondering about the change in some of them, caving all the time.

... paid off?
... complicit from the get-go?
... or threatened?

It's pretty evident to me that the ultra-wealthy of the world are calling the shots and I've often wondered if Obama (and others in congress) have been given a choice: play along and be rewarded financially or if not, they or their families have been threatened.

When I heard about the State Dept. cables requesting that among other info, DNA from various people at the UN be collected, that just makes me lean toward thinking people are being threatened.

With DNA samples, wouldn't it be pretty easy to frame someone for a crime? Not too much of a stretch to think TPTB already have DNA samples from everyone in congress. Maybe it's something like "do what we say or get framed for a sex crime".

Just a thought.

:tinfoilhat:

[liberation]

172. No need for tin foil...

... I think most politicians got the message way back in the 60s when all those liberals kept running into bullets.

There is no "conspiracy" about some obscure TPTB shadowy figures running things in the background though, it is must easier than that once the systemic reality of this society is understood.

[tavalon]

257. Liberals kept running into bullets

Yeah, that was a pretty big tip off, wasn't it? These days it's the virulently angry reaction of the PTB toward Wikileaks that highlights just how rigged the game is.

[undeterred]

166. Yup.

I've stopped listening to the news and I get annoyed when it comes on.

[Laelth]

167. Yup. n/t

-Laelth

[blue neen]

170. No.

n/t.

[MadrasT]

175. Right there with ya. n/t

[FedUp_Queer]

176. Starting to? My only disagreement is timing. They haven't cared for a long time.

[Miss_Underestimated]

180. there is hope - as noted by Michael Moore in Democracy Now interview 11/23/10

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/23/the_fear_of_sicko_cigna_whistleblower

snip...."The companies, as Wendell points out in his book, they already knew in ’06 and ’07 from their own internal polling that the American public was fed up with these for-profit insurance companies and there were so scared, as Wendell has said here, of a tipping point, of something happening. They were afraid that this film might be that tipping point. They had to pull out all the stops to stop it and to stop me.

Let me just say that line- in that report, in their strategy plan- is a compliment to everybody listening and watching this show because that is really what they’re concerned about. Not about Michael Moore. Not about some 90-minute movie. They’re concerned that you, the people listening right now, might do something. And they know that it could happen at any point. They know it because they know that there are more of us than there are of them. They know the math of that. And if the people ever woke up, and if the people ever stood up, if the people ever got active, if the people ever stood up and said, "That is the end of this. This is a sick system- that will allow companies to profit off of us when we fall ill!" They’re so afraid of that happening. If they didn’t think that your listeners and the people who care about these issues- especially people on the left- were there, then they would not bother with any of that! They wouldn’t spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to stop a little movie. They’re really concerned that the people do exist, that the anger about this exists, and the people will eventually stop it.

..." snip

[sendero]

181. I actually care..

.. but I don't think there is much we can do about it. Take care yourself and your family if any, that's about all you can do.

The politicians are all bought and paid for (except for a handful, and they cannot do it alone).

The only way anything is going to change is for millions of Americans to demand change, and so far most Americans are deluded into the "my side is right" game and hence vilify their fellow citizens rather than the real source of their problems (the ruling rich).

So, I agree that being mad all the time is pointless. Eventually, one of two things will happen, we will become a full-fledged fascist police state (we're well on our way already), or the economic hardships will become too much for the people to bear and they will rise up.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[donheld]

182. I've got so I feel like it's pointless to give a shit anymore

The Owners of this country as George Carlin said are going to do what they're going to do, and it's pointless for us to fight then.
Unless, a real multitude of people rise up and really prepare to take the country back from those who feel they own the country
there's not going to be any change.

[FedUp_Queer]

328. I, for one, find myself worried.

I'm just 39, but I remember my history from the Great Depression. I remember reading of people losing hope and, in fact, losing the will go on and that an extreme despair descended upon the country. That appears to be the case here. Regular folks like us seem to more and more bear the brunt of economic hard times. The banksters and other powers that be constantly wave the finger of personal responsibility in our faces while banksters receive bailouts and, in fact, rewards in the form of bonuses for their mistakes. Never, EVER forget that those bonuses are OUR MONEY. That is nothing more than laughter in our faces at the theft of our country and transfer of our wealth to them.

[tiredtoo]

184. been fighting this battle for years

and i will probably die fighting it. For a positive point consider this. The tea party is starting to fuss about the tax "compromise". This puts the repugs in a bit of a spot also don't you think ? Fact is our gubmint is under the control of big money and corporate power. perhaps the tea folks will see some light and join us in out quest to regain control. Wonders never cease.

[TomClash]

185. I feel the way Chris Hedges writes

And your rant is anything but pointless. It crystalizes what a lot of us are thinking and feeling.

Obama got a nice chunk of change from my friends and me. It won't be there again.

[Martin Eden]

187. Nice morale booster

When the going gets tough, the not-so-tough wax eloquently about the futility of it all.

We need to be GREATER than the "Greatest Generation."

[Bluebear]

218. Nice show of support for somebody feeling low. nt

[bobbolink]

311. Yeah, we are all supposed to wear masks, because we OWE it to others....can't

have them actually faced with reality, now can we?

Love *your* mask, by the way. :)

[tavalon]

258. Admitting to frustration is not equivalent to being not tough,

it's more like, not deluded.

[ProudDad]

190. K&R

[crim son]

191. Not that I don't care, but that acting on my concern is a waste of precious energy.

It looks like we're screwed and it's every man for himself. Who has time for politics? I am disturbed beyond belief that I think that that is in fact the plan, to make us feel like we have no power at all. Plan or not, I now need to deal with my immediate needs: a job, health insurance, a home that doesn't leak through the roof and basement floor, and a plan for retirement that may or may not include SS benefits to pay for my food. I don't want my kids to have to deal with this f***ing mess but it is clear as the sky is blue that there is nothing I can do to change the direction in which we're going. So yes, I'm not going to work for anybody's campaign again. Obama has done me in.

[sirthomas66]

192. Yes. I do. I don't know whether I am in final days or the country is

in final days, or both.

[derby378]

194. It's not enough to vote - you gotta get out there and do something

And maybe you've done that, in which case I salute you for it. Me, I've served as a precinct chair, an election judge, and a member of the Resolutions Committee at our state Democratic Convention this year - nabbing a seat on a national committee may be tough, but getting a seat on the state level takes a little work, too.

[JamesJ]

196. Me too!

I thought that's Obama's election would relieve me of the stress of wondering if I'll lose my Social Security and that I could watch my countrymen regain their senses rather than cowering in fear at every threat imagined by Republican politicians.

Last week did it for me. I can't keep caring, I can't stay angry when the President I helped elect ridicules my passion and praises the Republicans who deny his very citizenship.

No more.

[alp227]

199. if there's anything i can hardly care about anymore it's college and work

i haven't been able to find work in a year, and college is getting freaking harder by the week. but politics? hell no. I was listening to Thom Hartmann this morning and heard a caller expressing nearly the same damn sentiment. Hartmann suggested actually doing progressive activism in groups such as Progressive Democrats of America (pdamerica.org) or Democracy for America, the org founded by Howard Dean (democracyforamerica.com). This kind of "don't care" attitude is what effs up elections, like in 2004 and this year. Seriously.

[tavalon]

259. Wellstone activism is another good one

I've been to a seminar and workgroup and while it didn't really gel for me at the time, I've referred back to it a lot.

[timefortherevolution]

200. I'm liking the anger/discomfort. I'm elevating my fight.

[Javaman]

201. Welcome to the club.

the membership is getting larger by the day.

[mmonk]

202. I care too much. But I'm tired of caring. It's exhausting.

[bluetexas]

203. Fired up?

No, and I am exhausted. I don't know what to do any more. I have given up all hope. My only expectation is that things will only get worse.

[movingviolation]

204. I'm feeling it too.

Our system seems irreconcilably corrupt. There is a constant ache in my chest from feeling utterly hopeless, and I too, am very tired of feeling angry and hopeless all the time. This corrupt oligarchic way of doing things is simply un-sustainable. We are being crushed. Maybe that's what the power elite truly want, them on top of a slave caste, grinding their boot on our throats.

All the while, the propagandized mass of "Tea Derpiers" parrot their masters' words that have been carefully crafted by public relations demons. You can't argue with willful ignorance.

It's too bad that us progressives can't all move to a state, take it over and secede. We could institute true fair trade amongst ourselves and let the rest of the festering rot consume itself.

Aw fer chrissakes, who am I kidding? The festering rot would eventually invade us and kill us all, just for shits and giggles!

We are frogs, slowly boiling.

[mckara]

205. The Seeds of REVOLUTION Are Being Sown!

Now, the Left has to become the guardians of the Second Amendment.

[Jakes Progress]

208. K&R This administration

and this party and the happy-talk purveyors of constant praise on DU ignore the attitude and expression of frustration by those like the OP at their peril.

Belittle our disgust, attack our outrage, and ignore this reality. That is the surest way to bring about the end of this administration and this party.

[ZombieHorde]

209. Sometimes, a little bit of nihilism can go a long way. nt

[Amonester]

214. We are in the final years of human life on this planet (as we know it).

We're passed the point of no return. It's too late to change it (to return to how it was). What will come out of it nobody can predict exactly. One thing is for sure, hundreds of millions of poor people will suffer a lot more than we (in industrial countries) will, tragically (look at what's happening to Haiti, even if it's an extreme example, that's what's up next for all nations on this over-exploited planet).

The Greenland glacier is melting faster, sea-levels are rising sharply.

The natural counter-balance regulating CO2 levels is saturated, and can no longer transform more.

Buckle up.

Love your loved ones the best you can, while you still can.

[tavalon]

261. Yeah, that one is the ultimate one

And, actually, for me, it is the one thing that gives me some joy. It's joy that the 2% at the top will die just like the rest of us. Not as soon, but we are all on the way out. Now, when I think of how many species we are going to take with us, I'm really angry. What the hell did the dolphin and the chimp do to deserve to go down with us? We were the ones with maximum hubris and minimal care. Heck, if it were a fair world, the richest would be the first to go, but it isn't a fair world.

On the plus side, earth lives in geologic time and we have lived on her for just a small slice of time. She will recreate and renew as she always does. We won't be here (we, being the human species - I have no inside knowledge of when the extinction will occur) but she will. I feel good about that and will fight the other good fights until it's over for me or for my species.

[azul]

215. Change comes anyway, reagardless of hope.

We direct change by touching and doing everything with love and compassion, and also by acting without it. We get to act.

Beats me why some people choose cruelty and selfishness over kindness and giving. But the oceans are full of DNA, and life will adapt to mankind's activities somehow.

Life is a balance, after all, and perhaps beauty is its directive?

[Raine]

221. Yes, I feel that way

sad that's it's come to that but I feel pretty much defeated and depleated. :-(

[Skip Intro]

226. The system is not set up against us, the system is set up for us.

I don't think the founding fathers foresaw the wild manipulation of the media - rush, faux news, etc, and the ease with which much of the populace could be fooled, manipulated, and led. It is a very sad situation, but we on the left are not without blame. We are enablers. And it is truly hard to have a "we" opposition when "we" can hardly define who "we" are.

When you say "us" I imagine you're talking about people who hold the same values as me, the same vision for this nation, but that is always so ill-defined. Not like the repubs, who shape-shift and pander and misinform.

[zenprole]

227. Unabashed +1

Get all this out in the open; it's the only chance to attempt a solution...or to have your pound of flesh from the fucks that did this to all of us.

Too strong? Too mild? Let the DU censors have at it!

[kaffy4x4]

228. I didn't vote for Obama

but none the less I felt that maybe, just maybe some things would change under his administration. The only thing I can say for sure he did that I 100% supported was the ban on water boarding. But it's been a real let down since then. My disappointment goes further than Obama, I'm very disappointment in Congress as well. At this point I have to admit to myself that no one really cares about the working poor because they're not the ones who elect them...a dam machine does.

[joshdawg]

229. If most Democrats get the feeling

that they don't care anymore they will have a tendency to not vote for ANY Democrat, much less vote, period. Not voting is not an option.
It doesn't matter if you feel lost, if you are a Democrat, Liberal, or Progressive or one who simply cares about everyone in the U.S., you must make your voice heard by voting.
Not voting would simply mean that a right-winger will get into power. Right-wingers will vote. All they want is power. They have no plan to do the right thing, they just want the power to do what they want to kill all social programs and everything the Democrats have done the last 100 or so years.
So, stop losing heart and keep plugging away. Vote every time and vote Democratic. It will pay off in the long run.

[tavalon]

263. Not voting is an option. It's an option I refuse to take.

But believing that voting with no voter verified paper trail is actually verifiable and therefore, the gold standard is no longer in my repertoire. I vote and I vote Democratic, each and every time and I don't believe any more that it makes a hill of beans difference. Actually, now that one dollar = one vote, my vote is actually far less valuable than say, Dow or RJReynolds or Monsanto, but still I will vote.

[joshdawg]

265. For the one dollar = one vote,

you can thank the R.(Roberts)A.(Alito)T.(Thomas)S.(Scalia) in the Supreme Court along with the sellout of Kennedy. They, of course, made corporations people and therefore voters.
It pleases me that you still vote and vote Democratic. That makes two of us.

[tavalon]

266. The R.A.T.S.

Nice. Nasty bunch they are. And it isn't even the same felonious five as the ones who appointed King George the moron.

[Major Hogwash]

230. I will always care.

I'm going to go down swinging, too.
I may not be posting on some forum in 2 years, but I'll still be out there fighting for what is right.

The major difference between me and some other people is that I know that in 2 years things will be better. So, paying for an extension of unemployment benefits now for some 2 million Americans is worth the cost today, because we will be better off in 2 years and will be able to pay higher taxes for it then.

Of course, some people say this is a bad tax bill, but someone always says that about every tax bill. And in 2 years I will be fighting to get rid of the Republican jackass in the House of Representatives from my state that voted against extending the unemployment benefits for 2 million of my fellow Americans.

And I hope that we end the war in Iraq next year and start removing troops from Afghanistan next year, too.

[southernyankeebelle]

231. I use to think when you voted for president then the president supports your ideas. This president

has been a full blown disappointment. I don't see where he is a liberal. I find it sad he turned out to be a blue dog democrat and he sticks his finger in the air to see what way the wind is blowing. I wouldn't feel so bad if he stuck by what he believe the democrat issues are even if they are fully what he wants. I could respect him for standing up what he believes in but he doesn't. I am sure many democrats would have stuck by him if he didn't agree with this bill and went out and sold it to the public. Shame on him. MSM is no longer leaning left. I already told a democrat rep who call for money I won't be contributing to Obama and he better pray that Palin is the one who is running against him because that is the only way I'll vote. Why bother voting there isn't any difference in parties.

[get the red out]

232. Pointless because change is IMPOSSIBLE

I have come to that conclusion. Due to the massive corporate money backing the Republican Party it does not matter what is best for this country and the people, the point has been from election night for the Republicans to make the President fail, then get a Republican elected to carry out more war and financial ruin.

We have no hope in this country, WE don't even have a country, it's been bought and paid for.

[secondwind]

233. HARDLY. I NEVER GIVE UP!

[tavalon]

234. Well, yeah, I think that's a lot of the reason we're so cantankerous here

I know I'm pretty good goddamn mad at having the scales ripped off my eyes. And I find myself turning more toward community activism. I'm still going to vote but mostly because I don't want to have the scarlet A for "apathetic non-voter who has no right to bitch", but that's about it for national politics for me. Not to say I'm going to stop watching - this is the biggest train wreck I've ever seen and I can't seem to pry my eyes away. Sick, huh?

[spicegal]

237. It's not so much I don't care, I just feel helpless and

powerless, and add to that confused, such that I never know what to believe. I think Obama is a very decent person who's tried to play it straight and do the right thing, but Washington politics doesn't allow it. The media doesn't allow it. The rich and powerful don't allow it. Obama was thrown into a lion's den with multiple huge problems, fighting a Party that wants to destroy him rather than help the country. The Democrats don't message well or fight nearly as well. It leaves many Americans with no where to turn. Americans are also to blame. Too many are either ignorant or apathetic, incapable of connecting the dots.

[spooked911]

241. He's not a decent person

that's part of the problem.

There's just no excuse for 90% of what he's done, if he really cared about regular folks and about human rights.

[leeroysphitz]

238. I got my hands in the air...

[spooked911]

239. I know what you mean

but you should never give up hope of change for the better. If we all give up, then they really win.

[disillusioned73]

249. The pendulum needs to swing decisively to the left...

in order to dig us out of this insane trickle down/supply side economic philosophy. Unfortunately the small nudges that were the result of 2006 & 2008 will just not cut it. I have not read the comments yet, but I am sure there are the usual pony references and the timeless "it's only been one/two/three years"... do not be discouraged, there are plenty who recognize that this rightward tilt is unsustainable - I just wish there were more elected officials who would agree with us.

So yes, I am right there with you and it was not a pointless rant. Thank you ;)

[Enthusiast]

250. It's anger fatigue.

I have it too.

[jimlup]

251. It's not that they don't care - It's that they don't care about us!

They care about rich business interests and work to keep the rabble (us) in line. The democrats and republicans have different styles in this but both work towards the same end. This rubric doesn't apply to a few democrats and even a republican or two (Ron Paul for instance - though he has a different problem).

[PassingFair]

385. P.O.V.

Point of View.

It's not that they're out to get "us"...it's
just that they really don't see beyond holding
on to (and growing) what THEY'VE GOT.

I think the average SIMS player knows more about
caring for a population than these self-centered
"investment class" goons do.

We are statistics for them, and they have no
interest in HISTORY to show them what happens
when the bottom falls out for average people.



For their own short-sighted sakes, I hope those gated
communities they are so fond of are secure enough
to withstand a siege.

The Storming of the Tuileries:

[jeanpalmer]

260. Know the feeling

It does seem pointless. The system is corrupt and there doesn't seem to be any way to change it. It's like being ruled by the mafia, with a police state set up to carry out its wishes. It would take a revolution to change it. I don't see a difference maker on the horizon.

[Prophet 451]

262. I can do *care" but...

... I'm tired. In your country and mine, the right has won. They've got all the power and they've rigged the system to ensure they keep all the power. I care but, with all respect to professional cheerleaders liek Mike Moore, I just don't see any cause for hope anymore.

[OwnedByFerrets]

267. BING0

[Stuart G]

268. That's It......... 40 Years of Trying...For What? Obama makes a deal with the Rich

[Epiphany4z]

269. yep..

I am tired of trying not to be disappointed. I get this sinking feeling every time I turn on the news. In the interest of a happy holiday I have been skipping most of the news. Taking a short news holiday to relax and enjoy my family.

I will catch my breath over the holiday and then dive back into the bar room brawl.

[Robyn66]

271. Right there with you

I am all out of hope. I dont see anything getting better. I personally want to move to Canada but my husband wont even listen to me.

[negativenihil]

272. Hate to admit it, but yes. n/t

[DFW]

275. I refuse to give up

I felt sick when Nixon won in 1972--the first presidential election in which I was able to vote.

I felt sick when Reagan won in 1980, and REALLY sick when he won again so big in 1984.

I felt sick when I saw the results of the midterms of 1994.

I felt angry when Bush was selected in 2000 and 2004, as I felt he didn't win either election.

I felt hope when Clinton won in 1992 and again in 1996.

I did NOT feel great hope when Obama won in 2008, because I thought that in general expectations were far too great,
and when Howard Dean, the real architect of Obama's presidency and huge majorities in Congress, was edged out of
participating in his administration, I was sure that we were in for a BIG disappointment. Well, we got that in spades,
didn't we?

But he has two years until re-election time. There has been a LOT of damage done, but Bonehead wants to remain Speaker
for more than two years. I would prefer that he does not get his wish, but if he comes across like a total jerkoff,
and Obama can somehow find it in himself to get out there and lead all those who thought he had something worth following,
I think he can learn from his misguided hopes that cooperating with extremist Republicans and right-wing Democrats will
somehow produce better results than going with his gut instincts. Bonehead could still be a one-shot Speaker, and Obama
could still turn around.

Nothing's for sure, but I'm not ready to accept a worst-case scenario.

Yet.

My bet, FWIW, is that something completely unexpected is going to happen some time in the next 18 months that will
change the whole equation. I base that on absolutely nothing but a gut feeling. I just don't see the status quo not
changing in the next 18 months. I sure as hell hope it does, anyway.

The shortest day of the year is 6 days away. Here in northern Europe, that's a LOT of darkness. After that, the days
start to get longer, and there will be more sunlight for the next 6 months. Maybe I'm confusing looking forward to a
sure thing from mother nature with the uncertainties brought on by human nature. But I'm not ready to throw in the
towel just yet--not that I blame those who are. Bad news could bring me to your ranks soon enough, but I'm not there yet.

[Umbral]

278. It's more a situation of "can't care anymore" rather than "don't care anymore". nt

[whatacountry09]

280. YES!

[SocialistLez]

283. I think people are confirming they're just as stupid as I think they are.

It's not that change CANNOT happen...it's just do people WANT change?

I dunno....

I get you OP, I truly do.

[Dinger]

284. Yes

Not sure what I can do about it.

K & R for the truth.

[Roland99]

285. Starting? BEEN there.

[BobbyBoring]

287. Keep this in mind everyone

If we quit, they win. I've been going back and forth about leaving the US for a long time. IF I could sell all my property, I would perhaps but THEY have reduced the value of everything I have worked for. THEY have stolen from me and you. It's time for US to stop letting THEM get away with this. It's time for US to make THEM fear US.

Anyone ready??

[Loge23]

290. All a part of the new normal

We basically living off the bones of what was once a promising country.
Thing is, there's so many people here that the need to keep us all alive is what's keeping the economy going.
It changed. It's not a progressive country anymore. All around us we see smaller countries - some considered "third world" - passing us in so many meaningful categories.
Our government is a sham run by idiots. The sanest in the bunch are marginalized by the majority of fools. People now run for national office that would've been considered incapable of running for dog catcher just a decade or two ago. Celebrity is king. Competence is boring; besides, the American people as a whole are too stupid to figure out what competence really is. Who would want the job anyway??!
The economy is held together by bonds now. There's little or no real GDP fueling growth - it's all export and the aforementioned sustenance economy.
That sinking feeling? It's the new normal.

[Blue_Tires]

291. +1

[JoePhilly]

293. That's been the GOP's goal all along.

The GOP did everything the could to block every piece of legislation that came up. And what they could not block completely, they ensured that some odious element would be included to make you made.

As for our majorities, not really.

The GOP BLOCKED the seating of Al Franken for 6 months. When he was finally seated, we had that 60 vote majority for less than 6 months. Kennedy dies. And the GOP adds Scott Brown. No more majority. So be aware that the Senate majority of 60 votes lasted 6 months, at the end of year one, then it was gone.

Also ... the House majority you refer to passed MANY, MANY, good bills. Bills almost everyone on DU would like. The Senate blocked them, with Blue Dog or Joe Lieberman support.

Basically what we have is about 34% of the country on the right who hates Obama. About 40% who are willing to stand with him, and 10% in the middle who could go either way, and then 10% on the left who are regularly pissed at anything Obama does.

Importantly, that last 10% isn't always the exact same folks. It moves based on the specific issue.

The media takes the 40% who hate Obama no matter what, adds the 10% from the left who are pissed at any given moment, and then claims that 50% (a majority) of the country is against Obama FOR GOING TOO FAR TO THE LEFT.

If the 10% in the middle breaks evenly, you end up with 45% FOR Obama, 55% AGAINST.

The media repeats that narrative over and over.

The way to move forward goes like this I think.

We have to stop fighting among ourselves.

The GOP is much better at this than we are. If they don't get everything they want right away, they still cheer whatever victory they get. And they say that while they did not get X this time, they are going to keep trying until they do.

Take abortion. They've been fighting to end that for 3 decades. Its still there, and they don't give up.

When they don;t get what the want, they blame us ... when we don;t get what we want, we blame us too.

We have to put the blame where it belongs.

[BrklynLiberal]

343. Ibeleive that you are 100% correct. Apathy and disinterest are their best friends.

[meow mix]

294. yup, i wish the new base good luck

obviously i dont get any representation.. so i no longer care.

[northoftheborder]

295. Repeat of my post on another thread, fits in here

Some of you were making disparaging remarks about Greenwald as a journalist. You all need to read his entire post at Salon. He has resigned from the board at CREW because of their denunciation of Wikileaks and Assange.

I am ashamed to be an American now for so many reasons. ( I also just read Altermann's treatise about the declining of America's empire.) We are in decline in so many ways, our polices based on immoral attitudes towards humanity. We operate on greed, selfishness, cruelty, inhumanity, arrogance, and the desire for power over all - in this country and the world.

This treatment of Manning is representative of the evil being manifest in American policy.

I am extremely depressed over the state of this country; I don't see a path towards improvement in any realm. Our citizens are ignorant, apathetic, easily brainwashed with lies, a distorted religious extremism, and distracted with baubles such as the latest fashion, shallow entertainers and stupid sports "heroes". Our "leaders" are cowed and/or distracted, bribed, with the wealth of those who think everything is just fine and dandy in their world, and will spend to keep it that way. Truth and reason are being repressed as godless humanism.

Talk me out it - do any of you see a silver lining through this dense fog of pessimism?

[DirkGently]

296. The Fix is in. It's a gut-punch when you start to feel like your "side" is complicit in it.

[myrna minx]

297. Reagan Democrats are the new liberal and trickle down economics are

the new Democratic Party's idea of a job generator. :-( We does the former 'base' go from here?

[DirkGently]

351. Wish I knew.

[Tesha]

390. Eventually, an actual Socialist/Labour Party emerges.

It may actually be close now.

Meanwhile the DLC and moderate Democrats form a centrist
party and the Republican Party recedes into Dixie, its natural
home.

Tesha

[Deep13]

298. A little, but it's mostly despair. nt

[BlueIris]

299. I feel like the damage is done, yes.

I was feeling excited about the next president, but now I don't think even that amazing man will be enough.

[treestar]

300. So join the masses

You don't get all you want in life, either. Do you no longer care about your career, because you aren't at the top of it?

I suppose you no longer care about your personal life and have cut most of your family out. they must have failed you at one time or another. by your standards, they never do enough.

Politics should be even easier to "care" about.

[Tesha]

391. We all knew we could count on you for Grade A snark.

Winning friends and influencing people wherever you
go, just like Rahm

Tesha

[Mafia Killer]

301. What ?, Me Worry ?

yesterday, my family had it's first "meal" in three days.
Saturday, we had a bowl of cereal. that was our meal that day.
Sunday, we had nothing.
Monday, we had one piece of dry toast each.
yesterday, my wife pawned her computer, so we could have a meal.
I'm disabled and live on a small monthly check.
my wife works part time as a janitor for a private (republican) club.
it pisses her off that these fathead tightwads wander about the club getting shitfaced and bitching about the "Loser Democrats"
while throwing away more food than a lot of folks in my neighborhood even could afford.

now while I have been a solid Democrat my whole life, I have lived most of my life under republican rule.
I have seen firsthand the effects of a "Republican" Democracy.
it looks an awful lot like "Facism"

Most Democrats and Liberals would agree, we try to put our citizens first....above all else...we care about our fellow man.
ummmmmm.

I agree with the poster.........

so....I dare the next Teabagger to scream in my face that I'm the Enemy. That I don't love America.

that bastard is gonna taste good with a little BBQ sauce.

[Meshuga]

302. I am about to just tune out of politics for the sake of my own health

Why should I get so worked up over stuff I cannot control and that I am powerless against?

For now I will just go through the motions (i.e., vote Democratic in 2012 and vote for the Democratic incumbents) and making sure that I vote progressive in the Democratic primaries in 2016. I figure that the only thing that I can do before 2016 is vote so we get Obama re-elected for the sake of supreme court nominations. But not expect anything else from him.

I know that all the campaign rhetoric are going to be meaningless since there is no money to be made in making real change and helping people who are struggling in our current system. But changing the Supreme Court is the one hope I have left to see things change for the better.

[barbtries]

303. yes

i am often tempted to just turn my back on it all. sometimes i do. then the next day i write another rant telling off my republican senator, or what i perceive to be a sort of encouraging rant to president obama, or, like the other day, a thank you to bernie sanders. i feel like turning my back but i can't keep it turned. after all as hopeless as it feels if change is to be effected it can only come from the people.

[johnlucas]

304. I care...just not about this Politics Game

Oh I STILL care about the matters & issues the Progressive Movement faces.
I just don't care about this Politics Game anymore.

Pro wrestling gives me better theater...even the era featuring that overrated jabroni John Cena.
I'm not here to watch politics like it's a show. It's supposed to be real life & affect real lives.

So because of the bullshit I will no longer participate in this tired charade.
I WILL continue to use my brain to find a way to make the Progressive Movement's goals happen.
THAT, I care about.
John Lucas

[totodeinhere]

305. That's just what the powers that be want. They want us to give up and just try to get whatever

small pleasures from life that we can get while we still can. If we get that attitude, then "they" have won. I know that sometimes it's hard, but we have got to keep up the good fight. We can start with trying to get little victories on the local level and then build from there. The stakes are too high. The fate of our children and our country is in our hands. Never give up. Fight on.

[Mafia Killer]

312. I agree, but disagree.

I agree with you, friend, never give up.

but I must disagree....."we can start with trying to get little victories on the local level and then build from there..."
say what?

have you been living in America long?
Democrats have been trying to get victories, large and small for 50 years.
theres no "start" to it.

I thought, as most Dems and Libs thought....
electing Obama was a major victory.
it was.

for the Republicans.

it's not time to wonder if we can win small wars, it's time for a little "Shock and Awe"
I no longer consider ANY republican or ANY DEMOCRAT who sides with republicans my "Fellow Americans"

they are my enemy.......and I will treat them as such.

God Bless America !
Long live the King !

now....let them eat cake.

[totodeinhere]

370. I don't blame you for being so hard core.

The times we live in make it easy to have that type of attitude.

[placton]

306. there is no hope

only Hopey McChange

[Crunchy Frog]

307. Yes.

I've pretty much reached the stage where I don't feel there's much point in voting anymore. In 2012 I may just blow off a major election for the first time in my adult life.

I allowed myself to get really upset about Bush and the Iraq war; to the extent that it triggered a major episode of depression. I can't afford to do that anymore.

In the immortal words from Uncle Max in The Sound of Music, "What's gonna happen's gonna happen. Just make sure it doesn't happen to you." I'm pretty much at that point now.

[iamthebandfanman]

309. no, i care tons

im just starting to believe that we may never find someone to represent us and our values truely

[VeryConfused]

315. No, I can never imagine not caring

[cjbgreen]

316. Yes!

I have decided that in my state there are some very positive actions being taken and that I need to direct my efforts to those things I can influence. Perhaps this country's actions would be more deplorable absent progressive voices. But I think it is difficult to not feel demoralized.

[33Greeper]

319. Do not quit and do not despair......

If not us then who? Ok, take a break, listen to some uplifting music, pay it forward locally. I am blessed with a roof over my head and enough to eat. I do what I can to help my suffering neighbor. As it gets worse out there, we will be needed even more. So, take a break, charge yourself up spiritually and get back out there. Love and blessings to all you "I care" Progressives out there. Do not despair, you are needed. Peace

[LiberalArkie]

320. I feel like we would have been better off if McCain had won, then the US would have found out about

what kind of people the conservatives are.

[Recursion]

325. Because 2001-2008 didn't show them that?

They know. The one-third or so of the US that is conservative like it, and the one third that are moderate are willing to put up with it some of the time.

[AlbertCat]

329. then the US would have found out....

nothing!

Not with this media.

Information and critical thinking is what solves problems. But we have a country that is waiting for some god to sort it out. Smarts are looked down upon, unless it's a clever play in football.

[johnlucas]

382. Good. Then the Revolution would have come about faster

Let 'em have it. Both "teams" are working for the same people anyway.
This Good Cop, Bad Cop of political theater is tired & old hat.

People are not outraged enough. They're still too comfortable.
Comfortable people don't revolt.
It needs to get massively worse before people's dignity kicks in & they stop tolerating this abuse.
That or they go under entirely.

Sink or swim time. Make it binary. Live free or die like a slave. What's your choice?
John Lucas

[Celtic Raven]

321. Thom Hartmann's reading your post

[Ian David]

322. Thom Hartmann is talking about this post on the air right now. He says you're a douchebag.

I'm kidding. He didn't say that.

[LanternWaste]

323. Frustration, yes. Apathy? No.

Frustration, yes. Apathy? No.

[SidDithers]

324. I started to feel that way, but then I was just meh....nt

Sid

[XanaDUer]

326. Me

I've lost my job, getting another one is going to be a bitch, I'm sick of the BS US-style politics ("We won! No, we won!") while the average American starves and loses their home...

I am seriously thinking of becoming an expat once my old pets die.

[fadedrose]

330. I sunk when he picked Hillary Clinton for SecState...

not because I don't like her - but the animosity between them during the campaign wasn't created by me, it was created by THEM. We were fine tuned to love our candidate, and since she voted for the war, we couldn't possibly want her in our government.

So they pit us all against each other - dems against reps, progressives against moderates and they expect us to love each other all of a sudden because otherwise we're not supporting the President enough.

Yes, we progressives are bad people. Just can't get along with others.

[Bucky]

332. I'm ashamed to admit it. But yes, I'm down in the dumps too. Current events depress me.

It's probably typical of Democrats and liberals to feel like this. We're culturally self-critical; glass half-emptiers. It's probably a strength at some times. But right now I could use a leader with a little more rah-rah in him.

[grahamhgreen]

334. No, but I feel our leadership doesn't...

[Lorien]

352. Oh, they care; for the welfare of the powerful

the rest of us are on our own.

[aud1]

335. Still caring

I truly can relate to the feeling of hopelessness regarding our political situation, which is why I recently started reading "The Impossible Will Take a Little While" (ed. by Paul Loeb -- it's a compilation by various progressive activists). I would recommend it to any liberal Democrat who is discouraged with the Democratic Party, because it helps refocus on what we as a grassroots movement can do, as opposed to waiting for our elected leaders to fulfill their promises. It has helped me realize that I must continue to call for social justice and uphold other democratic values, even when it seems pointless, because that is the only way that any real changes are ever made. I have found the following quote by Howard Zinn (that I read in this book) to be an encouragement to persevere, so I'm sharing it now:

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives." - Howard Zinn

[Vinca]

336. I know I've begun to envy the mindless twits who can't name

the Vice President and who only have the latest American Idol winner running around in their heads. Life would be much simpler and more enjoyable if it didn't matter to you how most of the country is being screwed.

[upi402]

338. Even DUers are idolizing Holbrooke

That guy started killing and oppressing under Carter in E. Timor and was a PNAC signatory supporting Bush.

So yeah, it gets to that point of awareness being a burden. I agree 100%

[Lasher]

339. Me too.

Lots of my neighbors have always gone on fishing trips, etc, instead of staying home and voting on election day like I have done every single time during all my life. I used to think they were pretty stupid but lately I've been wondering if it is I who has been the stupid one.

[Goldstein1984]

Not pointless at all

My son and I just had this very discussion.

We concluded that it's time to hunker down and take care of our own. Since we can't influence events, we'll study and understand them with the help of the likes of Zinn, Chomsky, Greenwald and Klein.

We decided that we'll participate in "the system" to the degree necessary, and remove ourselves from it to the degree possible.

We've positioned ourselves to do that, and our efforts will be directed at strengthening that position.

[Goldstein1984]

340. Not pointless at all

My son and I just had this very discussion.

We concluded that it's time to hunker down and take care of our own. Since we can't influence events, we'll study and understand them with the help of the likes of Zinn, Chomsky, Greenwald and Klein.

We decided that we'll participate in "the system" to the degree necessary, and remove ourselves from it to the degree possible.

We've positioned ourselves to do that, and our efforts will be directed at strengthening that position.

[KansDem]

341. I do, then I take my "medicine"

...works every time.

[BrklynLiberal]

342. yes....I am exhausted from the constant bouncing from euphoria to depression & rage. I am losing

hope for the future of this country. I am so sad for my children and grandchildren.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

And BTW, your rant was far from pointless.

[zentrum]

344. Sounds like you only had feelings

...and values and didn't necessarily fight the system in an organized way. Until you've done years of going to meetings, writing letters to the editor, making calls, pressuring your representatives, and taking other public actions, you're premature in giving up. Not clear from your rant how hard you've been working. We progressives tend to not work as hard as the religious right and tea baggers and that ilk. Many of them organized 20, 30, 40 years ago and never stopped and never let impatience undo their determination.

They took over school boards, local Republican groups etc and now have infiltrated their party and pulled it even harder right. This took time. I know they had media and corporate support--but they still did the relentless actions for decades as well.

[ceile]

346. I have to keep caring, no matter how badly I want to check out.

Budget cuts (mostly state cuts) are going to drastically effect my "clients" and their families. I really wish I could bury my head in sand- even if just for a few months. Now where's that bottle of merlot....

[ellie]

347. Yes, our

elected Democratic officials do nothing for us at all. I am tired of it and am going to stop volunteering and giving money. Let them do without me. Maybe they can get all of those fickle independents to work for them. This Democrat doesn't care anymore.

[PhillySane]

353. Stopped giving long ago

but there are many progressive organizations out there you can give to/work for. And don't stop harassing elected officials no matter who they are. That IS the democratic process. Call, write, march, make noise. Never stop doing that.

[California Griz]

359. I almost died over thanksgiving.

I went into a often fatal state of lactic acidosis brought on by food poisoning and my medications, the doctor gave me a 20% chance of making it. I stopped counting the number of times I've gone into shock over the last ten years. If I was a horse they would have put me out of misery years ago. Well I'm still here I'm still fighting. We've won a few battles over the last 4 years but that's all we've won are a few battles this war is far from over and I'm not ready to give up. When we win this war and we will win, then I can lay down and die. Until that day I will continue to fight the good fight. No one will stop me no one will demoralize me.

[GreenTea]

361. Even though it's exactly what the republicans want - I feel more & more each day I just don't give a

FUCK anymore!

[pam4water]

362. Yes, K&R

[1776Forever]

363. Thom Hartman just commented on this post on his 12/15 show - Said he loved DU! n/t

[newtothegame]

364. What exactly made you 'know' that this President is smart enough?

700 days in the Senate? 100+ 'present' votes?

[RussBLib]

366. Yep.

I'm turning my back on all the crap for awhile and going back to enjoying life. There are more important things than politics. Obama has blown it, big time.

[Plucketeer]

368. This last broken promise

the one where we were GUARANTEED that the Bush Tax giveaways would NOT be perpetuated. THAT'S the anchor for my hopes. What we say or contribute means NOTHING. :grr:






THE OBAMA-GOP ECONOMY PLAN

[Grinchie]

371. No need to be angry, just study Gandhi and see how effective his techniques were...

Gandhi is a good reason why the Gooberment would like to shut down all libraries and promote all access via the Internet.. While in simpler days, this was a great idea, except that people without Internet access would be left out in the cold.

Fast forward to Wikileaks, and the Gooberments heavy handed confiscation of DNS names for web sites alledgedly involved in Copyright Infringement, without due process or reasonable evidence, and we can see that maybe online libraries could go away at a whim of the Government.

I predicted this in 2005, and it has come to pass, interestingly enough, one weak before WikiLeaks dumped the latest bunch of skeletons that show the U.S. Empire for the meddling, self dealing, out of control empire that it has become.

If this is not a wake up call for many, then they will remain the zombies the state wants, but the rest of us that say "ENOUGH", need to find a better way to fight back, and there is a better way...

I propose that like Gandhi, we strive to relearn the simpler ways of life prior to our dependancy on the Corporate Master for everything we desire or need to survive.

It is only when we no longer need a minimum $5,500 per month income just to maintain a moderate lifestyle that we begin to affect the Corporate control over our lives, and the debt slavery/ponzi scheme that utilizes the fact that you are alive as a means to leverage more money out of the system.

If a large number of people just drop out of the rat race and stop supporting this system that forces all of us into laboring for fiat money that changes value almost daily. Our savings are destroyed, and this of tangible and real value are no longer recognized by the average person, especially when they are watching "Who wants to be a Millionaire", dreaming of a get rich quick lottery win.

We all need to start thinking about ourselves and our loved ones. We will no longer willingly obey unjust laws like obediaent sheep, but we will raise the cost of enforcement of those laws to the point where they cannot afford the manpower, energy or resources to enforce those laws.

If we no longer make it easy for them to control and coerce us, we will win, simply because they can't carry us all to jail, especially if we refuse to walk to jail on our own power.

[portlandkarma]

374. Sinking feeling 2

I'm this close to taking the Obama sticker off the bumper.
It's over - I'm putting all my mutual funds into CDs.

[strawberryfield]

377. Billy Joel said it all more than 30 years ago

"I believe I've passed the age of consciousness & righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight.
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view,
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right, ohhhhh"

[Stuart G]

378. This thread represents how many of us feel..No hope, or no hope?

[reformist2]

379. Without real campaign finance reform, every other reform is futile.

The reason we keep getting sold out is because our politicians have already been bought and paid for!

I for one am no longer surprised nothing ever gets done anymore.

[demodonkey]

381. Without a voter-marked & voter-verified paper ballot for every vote all else is futile.

If we can't be sure our votes are being counted accurately we have nothing. But 25% of American voters are still be forced to vote on completely paperless, software-dependent Direct Recording Electronic voting machines.

And there is no excuse this problem has not been corrected by now.

[ThatsMyBarack]

383. Count me in....

I wish people would stop telling me what to eat. I eat when I'm hungry, I eat (ONLY) what I want and I stop when I'm full. End of story.

Also, I wonder why I throw away good money on health insurance. Every six months I pay more and get less coverage.

I avoid worrying about health matters like cancer screening because if any doctor found something--even if (s)he "caught it early"--I'd STILL end up getting nickel-and-dimed 'til the bill collectors came calling.

Plus, with new Illinois tax laws falling into place for 2011, do I really want to live to go broke?

Also, the entertainment industry SUCKS. All $$$$ and no talent left on this planet.

I will be 40 years old next month. Hope I die before I get OLD.

[PassingFair]

384. They are shoring up the "system" for themselves.

The rest of us are free to work
ourselves to death or give up.

No wonder Zombies are "in" right now.

[B Calm]

389. I hate the feeling I'm having that I wished I'd never voted for Obama