Best friends response to Obama's call to Eagles

[Howler]

http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2010/12/29/when-the-president-calls-about-the-vick-dogs/

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Still Blue in PDX]

2. I can't even get on the site; must be a lot of traffic!

This is way down on the list of disappointments I've experienced since President Obama was elected, but it definitely made the list.

:-(

[hlthe2b]

3. They will get my first charitable donation of the year...

I'm not flush, but they deserve it.

[Lugnut]

10. What a great idea.

Instead of sending the few bucks I can spare to a political candidate I'll send them to the Vicktory Dogs. Politicans are way beyond rehabilitation anyway.

[Howler]

13. Plus you can't potty train a congress critter. lOL! n/t

n/t

[TBF]

12. They are an excellent group. nt

[superduperfarleft]

4. + 1 gazillion.

Unfortunately, the people that need to read this probably won't.

[Howler]

6. only because

Their bullshit rationalizations won't stand up to the integrity of that letter.

[texastoast]

5. Why HASN'T Obama called these people? They are the ones who should have received that call

I just get pisster and pisster when I think about the President calling the Eagles' owner over that evil, hateful, disgusting, evil, scum Vick.

[hlthe2b]

7. I wish our dear "Teddy" had been around during this debacle...

He surely would have picked up the phone and "guided" Obama on this issue. He surely would have instinctively known how badly this would be perceived, but could have helped him to make it "right"...

[Howler]

8. Good question.

Perhaps he thinks there are more football fans without conscience then animal lovers who vote.

[TBF]

14. Howler, last night I did an OP on Michael Mountain's response to Obama -

and the hateful responses I received were mind-boggling. I can assure you that I found many more football fans (and Obama fans who will defend any fool thing he says) than animal lovers. So far this thread is doing better and I am very happy to see that.

I posted this letter (and Michael Mountain's blog) on Facebook and have received a lot of positive feedback. I guess I don't have many Obama-loving friends in real life and after this episode I am grateful for that.

[Howler]

15. I know what mean TBF.

But quite frankly it says EVERTHING you need to know about the kind of folks who defend Vick.
It reflects on them not on you.

[JuniperLea]

33. Utter nonsense! Obama did NOT place that call to talk about VICK!!

He called to talk about the stadium's green energy! He was ASKED about VICK!

Jesus God... I get pissed when the right gets it wrong, but when we do I get a sick headache.

[woo me with science]

41. Irrelevant.

He chose to commend the team for hiring Vick.

[JuniperLea]

87. Misinformation is ALWAYS relevant...

Did he chose, or was he asked a question? Did he commend the team, or did make a simple statement?

[woo me with science]

108. Oh my WORD.

:rofl:

Yes, he definitely was asked a question. He gave a horrific, politically tone deaf answer that resulted in the political shitstorm you have been participating in for three days now. The very same political shitstorm that required him to issue a SECOND statement to repair the damage!

And, yes, he made a VERY simple statement commending the team for hiring a serial torturer and murderer of dogs.

I have to hand it to you. That was one of your funniest posts ever.

[cottonseed]

9. That's not why he called him. You've been played like a fiddle.

[michaz]

18. That is not why he called him, you are right, but....

he also did not have to make the remark he did regarding Vick and his 2nd chance. That is where the problem is with all of this. Vick is a real creep no matter how you cut it. His remorse is only for his loss of income and the time he was in prison. Why did he not donate something to the people caring for his dogs? He didn't have to donate it all, but something to these groups would have been helpful.

[woo me with science]

42. It doesn't matter. It was still used to highlight Obama's interest in rehabilitation.

He could have used ANY OTHER felon for that purpose. It was a piss poor decision.

[Tx4obama]

20. BECAUSE Obama called the Eagles owner to talk about GREEN ENERGY in the stadium. n/t

[JuniperLea]

29. Exactly right...

Yet we are being told by MOST media that the call was placed to talk about Vick. That frames the rest of the ridiculous argument.

[JuniperLea]

31. He DIDN'T call about Vick!

He called about the stadium's green energy!! He was ASKED about VICK! WTF was he supposed to say?

[Bluenorthwest]

38. When asked about equal rights for innocent gay people

He feels free to claim that God does not approve of us no matter what we do, and so we are not 'sanctified' like straights and so we should never have marriage rights. He simply says it. And we never harmed anyone. He does not hold back. He has used surrogates who call us vampires, child killers, prostitutes. But Vick, dripping in the blood of lost pets, is being called a genius and a great man.
Sick stuff. Hate preachers and dog fighters. Go team!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

83. Exactly. nt

[JuniperLea]

88. Genius? Great man?

I must have missed that...

On the "God" crap... people have a right to believe what they want to believe. There are millions of so called Christians and Catholics around the world who feel exactly that way. It's sick, no question, but they have a right to believe what they choose, and no one has the right to be the thought police. That said, I think Obama could have chosen his words more carefully. I remember reading that excerpt, but never saw a full transcript.

[Number23]

122. Most ridiculous post ever. None of it is true and even less is relevant to this discussion.

[woo me with science]

49. He could have said many things.

He did not need to CONGRATULATE them for hiring a serial torturer and murderer of innocent dogs.

He could have used the occasion to talk about some other felon who was benefiting from rehabilitation, without mentioning Vick directly. He is a POLITICIAN who was elected President of the United States, for god's sake. He knows how to handle questions in a politically adept way. He chose to say this about Vick. Do not try to cast him as a victim who was trapped by and unable to handle an uncomfortable question.

He chose, and probably planned, this incredibly stupid response, and they have been playing clean-up ever since.

[JuniperLea]

89. Did he congratulate them?

I don't recall reading that part in the transcript. I thought he was congratulating Vick.

[woo me with science]

109. Oh boy!

That would make it better! :yourock: :headbang: :yourock: :fistbump: :pals: :woohoo:

[TorchTheWitch]

98. so WHAT?

The reason for the call is a ridiculous red herring. He made the comments about Vick and owns them. It doesn't MATTER what the purpose of the phone call was, and it's mind blowing that you seem to think he was somehow backed into a corner and didn't have any choice but to make the comments about Vick that he did because he was asked during the course of the conversation. If ANYONE knows how to delicately answer a question it's a politician, and if ANYONE knows how to tapdance all around a question without answering it at all it's a politician.

WTF was he supposed to say??? How about not something really stupid and offensive? Or is that too damn much to ask of the president anymore? Is it too damn much to ask of a president not to stuff his foot in his mouth (like we always enjoyed smirking at Bush for!) just because he wears a "D" on his sweater?

[woo me with science]

110. "How about not something really stupid and offensive?"

+100000000000000000

[lunatica]

91. The truth about that call has been posted repeatedly

You might want to find out what the truth is before you continue to spread misinformation. It tends to make one look foolish.

Obama called the Eagles' owner to congratulate him on building a green stadium. He also thanked him for hiring an ex-convict, Vicks, and said he hoped more businesspeople would hire ex-cons and give them a second chance, and he also said he condemns what Vick did with the dogs.

If you want to hate Obama, maybe you should pick something that isn't false.

[JuniperLea]

93. Thanked him, yes...

"Congratulated" no. You are exactly right.

There is a lot of bullshit in this thread... wow.

Seems there could be plenty of things to hate on Obama about without this ridiculousness.

[texastoast]

115. I never said I wanted to hate Obama, but you can infer all you want

I am a victim of spin, evidently, and I will stand up and take that medicine. Call me foolish and corrected.

And I'm thrilled about any green building and proud that he called about that. But that Obama spoke up for a monied Vick during that conversation just disgusts me on a personal level.

And it does NOT explain why Obama didn't call the people who took care of Vick's dogs. And good for them calling Obama on it.

[femrap]

106. The prez is over for me....

His mother-in-law should grab him by those big ears and give him a what-for!

I'm done with him.....after I email the WH.

[KittyWampus]

119. you are so misinformed it's pathetic. He called about something else entirely. That you don't know

WHY HE CALLED IS INEXCUSABLE>

You should be ashamed.

[texastoast]

120. Feel better?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=89331&mesg_id=94156

[TBF]

11. It's a great letter, and I would expect nothing less from Francis Battista or Michael Mountain. nt

[blondeatlast]

16. "..kind of like a press secretary." SUPERB. Hits all the right notes and not at all preachy.

Thank you. k/r

[JuniperLea]

17. Lies in the first paragraph...

That was NOT the reason for the call. I won't read further when lies are so blatantly put out there.

[superduperfarleft]

19. Any excuse will do....

[JuniperLea]

22. I'm very pro dog, and very anti-Vick...

I don't like lies of any stripe. There may well be merit in the article, but when any article with any slant begins with a lie, they lose right off the bat.

[TBF]

36. And unfortunately so pro-Obama that you will say anything to defend him. nt

[Name removed]

90. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

62. You mean like when Vick lied about being involved in the dogfighting ring

functioning on his property? That kind of lie?

[JuniperLea]

84. No, that was a damned lie!

I think he should do community service in an animal hospital caring for abused animals... under very, very close supervision. I would never trust him with an animal or a small child for that matter.

[hlthe2b]

25. Inaccurate or even exaggerated, but why a lie?

I don't have any reason to believe it was intentionally misrepresented...:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

27. Vick was not the reason for Obama's call...

This is a widely repeated fib that should not be furthered.

[hlthe2b]

30. I don't deny that, but why do you conclude the Best Friends person

is not simply mistaken? I have heard it reported a couple different ways in the media. At lest once in a way that a casual listener might confuse. Just sayin... Perhaps an email to her to correct and suggest it hurts her credibility?

[JuniperLea]

34. Because whomever wrote that blog entry...

Didn't do their homework. It used to be a major pet peeve for most people around here... still is for me. How much homework should a reader be required to do? How many other "mistakes" might there be?

[hlthe2b]

35. I do agree she should have done her homework, especially

on something so public, so high profile.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

73. What on earth?..... I am one of their most ardent supporters...

If you had read any of the posts above, you would see how totally wrong you were. Unbelievable....

I was countering the original subthread post that claimed the Best Friends Director had "lied" with respect to some details in her letter. I countered that she had been honestly mistaken or perhaps a bit hyperbolic, but certainly not lying about some bit of the details.

Who did you think you were responding to?!!! Do you always attack even those who are in basic agreement with you in such a very ugly way?

[JuniperLea]

86. Wow... I'm glad I missed that one...

We weren't even having a harsh debate here... wonder what got their dander up...

[woo me with science]

44. "Whoever," not "whomever."

Sometimes people don't pay attention to their homework. O8)

[JuniperLea]

85. Oh, the irony!

:rofl:

[woo me with science]

111. Naw....

Too easy. :hi:

[CreekDog]

112. might have been busy caring for Vick's dogs

which Vick hasn't done himself for the dogs at Best Friends.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

43. It was used by the White House to highlight Obama's interest in rehabilitation.

This is all after-the-fact backpedaling. I have no doubt he planned to include that comment in the call.

And even if you WERE right and it happened spontaneously, it was still an incredibly stupid thing to say.

[JuniperLea]

92. Wow... your crystal ball beliefs and your mind reading...

Are really ridiculous.

It was a stupid thing to say. I never argued that. YOU did.

[woo me with science]

114. Now THAT

is what you call irony. O8)

[TorchTheWitch]

113. and it's a red herring that has absolutely nothing to do with Obama's comments

concerning Vick. It's Obama's comments about Vick that are at issue here, not who called who and for what reason since all that is completely immaterial and doesn't alter one single iota what Obama's comments were concerning Vick.

Pointing out that Obama thanked him for hiring Vick instead of congratulating him for hiring Vick is yet another pointless red herring since both the words thanking and congratulating mean the same damn thing in the context of his comments.

Picking out these little utterly immaterial red herrings as excuses for Obama's comments are so absurd it's embarrassing. NONE of these excuses alter what Obama said about Vick, and the comments he made are just as stupid and offensive whether the reason for the call was concerning the green stadium or not or whether or not he either thanked or congratulated him for hiring the thoroughly unrepentant serial dog torturer and murderer Vick for a multi-million dollar contract since it means the same damn thing.

Relying on absurd excuses like this because you can't find anything of actual MERIT in Obama's comments is so completely desperate it just cements the notion that there's no getting around the stupidity and offensiveness of his comments.

[City Lights]

21. I love Best Friends and donate many times a year.

:loveya:

Kicking, recommending, bookmarking.

[Howler]

23. They do great things for animals and animal welfare.n/t

n/t

[raouldukelives]

24. Jeff Lurie is very rich

That is the reason for the phone call.

[Howler]

26. AHHHHHHHH. n/t

n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

28. Brought tears to my eyes....

and I would also would have been interested to see the reaction if Vick had a bad season....

His image is being cleaned up because there is ALOT of money to be made if he is successful..and not only by Vick himself.

[Howler]

32. Oh Yeah.n/t

n/t

[femrap]

107. Just wait until he

blows his knee out....Karma is out there on that football field.

[BrklynLiberal]

123. +100

:thumbsup:

[MrScorpio]

37. I thought Obama's private call to Lurie was about turning the Eagle's stadium to green energy?

And the part of the conversation where Obama condemned Vick's crimes while pointing out that Lurie had given him a second chance were just a sidebar….

Hmmmmm… That makes me wonder if the good folks at Best Friends have thought about making their own place a a green energy enterprise as well.


Well…

I guess they won't… Because Battista didn't even mention once the key reason for Obama's call to Lurie in his "me too- me too" rant. Green energy is just being ignored at Best Friends.

[michaz]

48. Maybe Vick would like to donate some money to Best Friends to make that possible. n/t

[Howler]

50. Oh Boo I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening.

Though it would be a better PR move then Obama getting involved in the Vick controversy.

[MrScorpio]

51. You mean above the $388,775 that the court had ordered him to give them?

Out of the almost million dollars that Vick was ordered to surrender, Best Friends got the biggest chunk of that.

That rant by Battista suspiciously reeks of attention whoring in hopes of raising more donations from sympathetic folks.

[Howler]

53. But thats just it Mr Scorpio....

It was COURT ordered.
Vick wouldnt have bothered if it hadn't been ordered.

[MrScorpio]

54. The court ordered Vick behind bars as well

It's not like he would have gone to prison without a conviction.

I fail to see the significance of whatever mechanism in which almost four hundred thousand dollars was given to Battista by Vick… The fact is that Battista DID get that money.

Besides, a court order comes with penalties for non compliance. Guaranteed money in the bank for Best Friends.

So, If Battista wants more of Vick's money, I'm sure that he's free to go to the prosecutors and demand it for whatever reason.

[Howler]

55. No.....

Whats crystal clear however is that if Vick hadn't been arrested and convicted for dog fighting He would still be running a dog fighting ring.


Considering the work in animal rescue and rehabilitation that "Best friends"does facilitate you would think that would make them a better spokesman and more worthy of any multi million dollar endorsements.

[Howler]

57. DAMMIT!!!!

It hiccupped when I was trying to post!!! LOL!!!

[Howler]

56. n/t

n/t

[MrScorpio]

58. Well, Vick WAS busted and Best Friends GOT a $388,775 windfall for their work

Facts is facts.

Like I said, if Battista feels that he's entitled to more of Vick's cheddar, I'm sure that Vick's prosecutors would be more than happy to hear Best Friends' plea.

[Howler]

59. $388,775 is not a windfall!!!!

For The size and scope of the services "Best friends" provides to animals.
Plus Best friends has not asked for any more Vick "Chedder"
Why would people want to lampoon a charitable organization for speaking out on a case they worked on to raise awareness and hopefully money to continue their mission statement what of it?:shrug:

[MrScorpio]

63. Hey, dude. You were the one who suggested that Vick should give them more money

I only pointed out that he's already given them a whole heck of a lot, more than any other group, as guaranteed by a court order.

Any "lampoon" that I provided was merely a way for me to point out that Battista has completely glossed over the meat and potatoes of a private phone call between The President and Mr. Lurie in order to tug lots of heart strings and draw attention to himself.

No mention of Green Energy at all. I wonder why?

I'm sure the Best Friends can use more cash for their good works…. So, even if they have to get it though dishonest emotional blackmail…

More power to them.

[Howler]

67. LOL! Mr Scorpio I wasn't the one who suggested Vick

Give more money. As a matter of fact I said to the poster who did suggest it to not hold their breath.

It certainly is not "dishonest emotional blackmail… "

To remind the public of the on going pain and suffering caused by the Vick dog fighting ring.
They know this first hand considering they worked on cases and the actual dogs that vick tortured.
especially with so many folks here and elsewhere so willing to forget these very inconvenient facts just because vick can run and carry a ball.

Even on the Rachel Maddow Show tonight reporting on that phone call between the Eagles owner and Obama the FIRST thing out of obamas mouth was VICK not the Green energy So we can see the priority there.

[MrScorpio]

71. I'm sorry, you are correct… That was michaz who made that suggestion

Got my Vick detractors confused. I apologize.

However, Battista did make a point of misrepresenting the totality of the actual phone call, which is a valid point that has been made by quite a few others here.

There was no mention of the hundreds of thousands of dollars that Battista has already received from Vick and of course I noticed that there is a prominent link on his blog requesting that readers donate money as well.

I'm absolutely positive that Battista regards any publicity that he could garner from a call from the President would definitely translate into more donations from sympathetic folks. He would be a fool not start that gravy train.

Battista plays a good game by pointing out that he's not the focal point of a private call between Obama and Lurie. The Blame Obama crowd has jumped into that situation quite gleefully.

Vick is entitled and is ordered to make an honest buck. When I last checked, using one's considerable talents as a football player is still an honest living and the salary that he receives is quite substantial enough to fund the care and feeding of his former dogs.

Lastly, as Obama was talking to Lurie, not Vick BTW, he made a point to CONDEMN Vick's offenses. Obama obviously did not forget Vick's crimes, so your point about forgetfulness is rendered moot.

Still, no mention of that in Battista's rant either.

[Howler]

101. Thats alright Scorpio

The Vick defenders all sound alike too. WRONG. LOL!

HMMMMMmmmm The article was about a imaginary phone call between the Pres and Battista.
Battista is correctly implying that the Whitehouse obviously thinks more of A football stars criminal rehabilitation then the actual victims of his crime And the people who worked hard to save those victims (you know. THE REAL HERO'S!)Further more it is inconceivable to me that the pres of the united states would rather give air play and publicity to a known torturer then any acknowledgment to an organization that has actually done some good in this world and on THAT CASE.


You keep implying That the money that vick was court ordered to pay for the care and up keep of the Dogs he tortured is somehow a virtue on Vicks part ITS NOT!!!! its not even enough to repair the damage he caused those animals for his own entertainment.

Not only that You continually try to cast dispersions,and denigrate a respected charity organization that exists solely to repair the damage done by vick and other criminals like him.
Next I suppose you will start to blame the dogs for allowing vick to abuse them.sigh.

And AGAIN I will point out that in that conversation with Lurie (According to Lurie himself)The first thing mentioned was vick not the green thing, Not to mention it was totally unnecessary to involve the whitehouse in the vick controversy at all.

There is nothing honest about the attempted whitewashing of vicks and his reputation going on in the public arena right now. NOTHING!

[TBF]

65. There were 49 seriously scarred dogs that were still alive and needed to be attended to -

and some may have to live out their lives at the sanctuary if they are not adopted. Of course we could've gone with PETA and just killed them all, which I'm sure would've made you and Michael Vick much happier.

[MrScorpio]

66. Actually, I'm quite happy that the dogs are alive and recovering today

I'm also glad that Vick had the cash available to pay to prevent the rescued dogs from being killed, as well as all the money that he's paying for their care and feeding for the rest of their lives.

I didn't see any reference to the fact Best Friends has already received a lot money from Vick in Battista's rant, nor any mention for the key part of Obama's call to Lurie about green energy.

Both are conspicuous in their absence.

[TBF]

82. Those are important points -

I agree with that. This white house definitely has a problem with message control (whomever does that should probably be replaced with someone more effective) - if the story from the beginning had been that there was a call about green energy and the Vick thing was mentioned, that would've been easier to understand. Instead many of us just heard the part about Vick and wondered why the president would take time out of his day to do that.

I'm also glad Vick is employed, and I wouldn't have a problem with him voting again. I don't want him anywhere near dogs, and I would think some folks could at least acknowledge that they understand that.

[MrScorpio]

100. It was a private call between Lurie and the President

And Lurie was the only one who chose to publicize it, so I can't see how Obama can be blamed for this.

Plus, that blog post by Battista, with the pictures and the plea for attention was just eaten up by people who would use ANY excuse to hate the President.

This entire thing is just being taken out of context by our own Drama Club, when there really is no drama to be had.

[martymar64]

70. You make it sound like they ripped him off or something.

Does paying off those that rescued his victims make everything all right and make all the pain and misery he caused go away?

If he can throw a football, I guess it does.

[MrScorpio]

72. I never said that they ripped him off

Vick was rightfully ordered to surrender that money to save and rehab those animals.

And I'm sure that Battista will do his best to see that no one ever forgets what they went through.

I just find it interesting that he's constantly inserting himself into the picture with hardly a mention of the money that he's already received.

And as far as football is concerned, if it wasn't for the money that football paid Vick, all of those dogs would have been euthanized.

So it doesn't make any sense to curse the fatted calf, if anyone really cared about the dogs' recoveries.

[martymar64]

76. I'll make sure that people never forget what the Dog Killer did.

Anybody that does that to animals for fun (he enjoyed what he did to them, even laughed about) deserves all the disdain and hatred that comes his way for the rest of his life.

This is one rep that will never go away. History won't remember him for his throwing arm. They'll remember him for hanging and electrocuting dogs and throwing family pets into rings as bait dogs.

Like Lady MacBeth, that stain won't ever come off.

[MrScorpio]

77. Yeah, well… Have at it. nt

[martymar64]

78. I don't get why you are defending somebody that did such heinous acts

Do you think that he is a good person? Don't you think he would do it all over again, given the chance?

Do you think that people that do such horrible things can be completely turned around and redeemed by a 23 month vacation in Club Fed? Do you think that it is adequate punishment for killing and torturing over 100 dogs and laughing about it? Do you really think he regrets anything other than getting caught? If he lied about it to the cops, he must've known how wrong it was but he did it anyway. What does that say about him?

Do you think that it's a racial thing? I've never heard about dog fighting being a treasured African-American tradition. Is it? Do you think he was set up by The Man, that they planted all this evidence on him and framed him? Do you see Michael Vick as the victim here? If he was a white football player would you feel the same way about him?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic to you personally. I'm trying to understand why anybody would stand up for somebody that does such horrible, cruel and evil deeds. Do you really believe in your heart that people like him can really be redeemed? Do you think he would do it again if the opportunity arose? If it was an innocent person that he killed in the same manner that he killed those innocent dogs, would you feel the same way?

Have you ever been abused? Have you ever known the sheer terror of knowing what was coming and being unable to defend yourself? If you have, then you would understand my point. It is not about money or football or Obama. It is about cold naked cruelty and how so many people here are trying to rationalize it away and make Vick into some sort of hero.

[MrScorpio]

79. You're acting as if the guy is killing dogs as we speak

As if him getting caught, convicted, sentenced and forced to pay restitution is completely insignificant.

You're acting as if the fact that he's been crime free since his release and is apparently meeting the conditions of his probation is nothing.

That any community service that he's done is some phony stunt.

That, if given the chance, he just ready to get back to torturing puppies without remorse.

That, from everything you say, you're ready to disregard someone else's basic humanity… Without ANY proof, I might add.

As if the man, who IS a public figure and IS currently under constant probationary supervision is like secretly killing dogs in some hidden dog killing room.

I'm not defending him. Vick was rightfully charged, tried, convicted and sentenced for the crimes that he committed. And they were indeed horrible. Hell. I was living in Newport News when he was found out. So I know.

Now upon his release, he is obligated to walk the straight and narrow, and provide not only for the welfare of his own family and his own responsibilities under a strict set of guidelines, but to provide monetarily for care and welfare of the dogs that he used to own.

You're acting as if none of that doesn't matter. I just think that it does. Because those are the facts, not some fantasy.

Now the fact is that the guy is a talented ball player… OK, as far as I know, that's a legal profession. So what?

And yes, he's getting well paid for it. But the thing is, that a lot of his money had gone and is going to SAVE THOSE DOGS. And no matter how much money he makes, even if he never ever commits another crime, no one will ever forget what he has done.

So really, I ask you, what is it going to take for you to let go and move on? That's it, just move on, instead of creating this fantasy scenario where Vick is just itching to kill all the dogs that he can.

It's really fucking ridiculous for you or anyone else to say that they actually know what is in someone else's heart. You don't really know. Other than Vick. who does? All that I know is what matters right at this very moment is what his actions ARE. Not some of the downright mean and hateful dream sequences that so many people just love to offer.

So really, all of these revenge fantasies about the guy are nothing more than a complete load of bullshit. We all know that, right?

And it's really tiresome… It truly is, because it really doesn't matter. What matters is what he's doing now to keep his ass out of jail. I'm sure that there's a team of professionals who are focused on making sure that he stays on the straight and narrow.

I defer to those guys, instead of a bunch of vengeance obsessed people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

I'm sure that a lot of people loved Battista's whine and that's all well and good. He's entitled to make an honest buck as well, even if he has to drag the President's name though the mud in order to do it. I'm just saying that the man got $388,775 from Vick. Without that money, which stems from Vick's actions on a ball field, which Battista is soooo sick and tired of hearing about, the dogs would have suffered in the end. So, come on… What that fuck does he want? I'm sure that he won't turn up his nose at the prospect of any more of Vick's money. I'm just wondering how Battista thinks that Vick will earn it, from yard sales? Yeah, right. His game is quite obvious.

There it is.

And that, my friend, is what it's all about.


I'm hitting it now. So I fondly bid you to have a good night and sweet dreams.

Later, 'Gator.

[martymar64]

81. I still don't agree but I appreciate your thoughtful answer.

I do agree that nobody should ever forget what he did. It is his legacy now and forever. His football career will be just a footnote to his evil deeds. His reputation is shot and will never be restored and I can take some consolation in that.

I've said pretty much all I can about him and now I just don't want to think about him anymore except as a reminder that monsters really do exist.

Now I can move on.


Good night yourself and take care.

[Howler]

104. With you 100% n/t

n/t

[sabrina 1]

95. How much do you think it cost them to try to rehabilitate

those abused dogs? Or is the time of a non-'hero' football player just not all that valuable?

This is one of the things that is so wrong about this country. Who our 'heroes' are. Here you are defending a man who has done nothing worthwhile for this country that I am aware of, (and he may have, but as I said, I am unaware of it) other than play football. On the other side is someone who dedicates their life to caring for the least among us, yet, we rarely hear about those real heroes who do not make millions of dollars for what they do.

Our priorities here are so skewed it's no wonder our government can torture men, women and children with virtually no consequences.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."Gandhi

A few hundred thousand dollars is not very much money for a place that does so much work for animals. Certainly not a windfall.

Sports figures are NOT heroes. They are talented at a particular sport, that is all and calling them heroes is a distortion of the word.

[MrScorpio]

99. This is what I don't get...

Vick had and has the ability to pay the hundreds of thousands, if not, over a million dollars to keep his former dogs from being euthanized and to also pay for their care and feeding for as long as they live. To me, that's a good thing

How would one expect him to get that kind of money in order to pay restitution for his crimes… With a lemonade stand? Insider trading maybe?

Vick is also using his status as a public figure to cite his own story as an example to others about the wrongness of dog fighting. To me, that's also a good thing.

Would people listen to him the same if he was just a garbage man or some guy living under a bridge?

In spite of all of that, when I last checked, playing football was still a lawful occupation. Whether someone is well compensated for their work and the publicity that they receive amounts to generalized fan worship, why does that even matter? Does all of that create some kind of deficit of admiration in others areas of our society? Of course not, it's nothing more than player hating,

I don't know where you get this silly notion that I'm lionizing the guy. I'm not even an Eagles fan…. I don't care.

What bothers me the most is all of the cynical and hateful bullshit that so many people are offering as some kind of plea for the poor puppies. I'm sorry, but ANYONE who wishes torture on another human being for whatever reason, even if that person is Michael Vick, well THAT just isn't very good liberalism or humaneness.

It's just bullshit.

[sabrina 1]

102. Well, I agree with you regarding the points about the good being

done because he has the ability to earn money to pay to try to alleviate some of the damage done.

And generally I am for people being helped to reenter society and make a living, after serving their time. Otoh, without real rehabilitation, would you eg, hire a bank robber whose previous job was handling money in any way, to work for your business? And how many people would safe hiring a convicted murderer to do their yard work?

There are so many variables involved that it's hard to have a blanket policy on the issue. But generally speaking since most people in jail today are not violent offenders, I am for restoring all rights once their time is served. But mostly I am for complete reform of our prison system which would instill more confidence that people are coming out having learned how to successfully function in society. It can't ever be perfect but it can be vastly improved.

In Vick's case, yes, his job is football and I don't see how returning to it puts him a place where he can return to committing the crimes he was convicted of, so that's fine by me. I would love to see him voluntarily contribute to the care of animals who have been abandoned and abused, without a court order, and maybe he will one day.

I think the reason people are angry is that there is a fear that impressionable people might interpret him being restored to hero status and to earning multi-millions as dismissive of the crimes.

As far as the president's comment, I understand what he was trying to say. Giving people a chance is a good thing, I do think it would have been best left unsaid and the issue of second chances discussed separately where it would have been easier to speak about not so fortunate ex-criminals as well as Vicks.

The subject of helping people after they serve prison time does need attention. Maybe the President can return to it using less fortunate people as examples, rather than trying to defend his statements about Vicks which were clearly misunderstood.

[Critters2]

60. If Vick had a conscience, he'd send more money without a court order.

He'd also inquire as to the condition of those dogs. But, alas...

[Howler]

61. Exactly!!!!!! n/t

n/t

[MrScorpio]

64. I guess the $388,775 has a court order taint on it that makes it less valuable

As far as letting every know about the condition of Vick's former dogs, Battista seems to be letting everyone know about their condition all on his own quite well.

[martymar64]

69. They don't ignore dogs that were tortured for fun by a sadist, though.

That's Lurie's job. He loves his dog-killing little meal ticket.

[northernlights]

116. the purpose of the call was irrelevent. It's the CONTENT of the call that offends

First: you don't know that Best Friends *isn't* green energy.

Second: they're a charitable organization. Maybe Obama and Lurie and Vick would like to contribute to enable them to make their facilities green if, indeed, they aren't already.

:eyes:

[Canuckistanian]

39. "They were like child soldiers kidnapped by warlords and forced to fight..."

"... no one thinks child soldiers should be killed just because they are damaged."

[woo me with science]

46. +1000000000000000

I wanted to highlight that sentence, too.

[woo me with science]

45. Thank you for posting this.

It is heartbreaking and needs to be seen.

[Howler]

47. HHHHHH OOOOOO WWWWWWWW LLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!

Wow Delete land.Now thats what I call passion.

[meow mix]

52. k&r

bookmarked ill donate

[otohara]

74. Ahhhh...Another Excuse to Dump on The President

the man believes in second chances and redemption for humans.

Shame on him.

[hlthe2b]

80. I believe in second chhance and redemption for humans...

I believe Obama is right to take the issue of prison reform and rehabilitation on and support and applaud him doing so. Vick is getting his second chance right now. Can anyone deny that to be the case?

What I question is his choice of Vick as the representative for that effort. It is THAT decision that I find to be misguided. Even democratic Presidents have missteps. I see this as one, nothing more.

[JuniperLea]

94. I agree...

I question his choice of Vick to get this message out too.

How else could he have done that and made such an impact? Would people have been any more forgiving if he had thanked a company for hiring a gang banger? A sexual offender? What crime would be a better crime?

[hlthe2b]

96. Well, if he really wanted to tie into the "high profile" advantage...

which could be understandable, I would posit that he could have negotiated with the Eagles owner to sponsor a program for released offenders in collaboration with other local businesses. Then he could have used Vick (to get the attention and impact), yet quickly traversed the issue to the more global problem. His statement of commendation then, would have been for a program that helps potentially hundreds of average offenders. This program, then, could serve as a model for others throughout the country--rather than simply singling out Vick, whose case is so atypical (and controversial).

[JuniperLea]

97. That would have been great...

I agree. I would really like to get hold of the President's wranglers... his PR folk need unceremoniously fired. They are horrible about framing or any other means of managing a message. You came up with a brilliant idea here, something that THEY as professionals should have come up with before the call was even placed. There's just no forward thinking! Poor messaging is one of Obama's weakest points, which is freaking me out because he's such a great speaker! He should know better!

[northernlights]

117. maybe he could have singled out a case of true redemption

Getting a second chance at a job is *not* redemption. Doing brilliantly and kicking a fucking ball around or whatever the fuck it is Vick does with his ball is *not* redemption. Doing time in jail is *not* redemption. Using your crime as an PR opportunity is *not* redemption.

Redemption would include contributing some of his mega-million earnings to Best Friends and Bad Rap to cover the costs of rehabilitating the surviving victims of his sadism, and to help defray the costs of other abused animals.

Redemption would include volunteering time doing *shit* work -- the kind that needs to get done every day and nobody wants to do. Like cleaning kennels.

There are plenty of criminals out there who did their time and dedicated their lives to redemption and atonement. Karla Faye Tucker is a prime example.

Maybe Obama's people could have found a case of true redemption to cite as an example. As opposed to a criminal who's trying to whitewash his past.

[JuniperLea]

121. My friend is co-founder and president of Bad Press...

http://badpress.homestead.com/

I agree... I hate Vick and all the sick shits of the world who are just like him.

Check out what my friend Lori wrote about him recently...

“Just dogs”: the new mantra of football fanatics everywhere since the Philadelphia Eagles’ signing of Michael Vick, convicted in 2007 of felony dogfighting charges. “He’s done his time, now let’s get him on the field and WIN!” they cry. “After all, there are guys in the NFL who have assaulted human beings and are still playing… Vick’s victims were just dogs.”

It's well worth the full read. Lori is a SAINT!

http://fidoscityguide.com/news/2010/12/23/just-dogs-why-we-should-rethink-forgiving-michael-vick/

[northernlights]

118. what redemption? Vick hasn't redeemed himself or atoned for the suffering he inflicted

doing time in jail is NOT redemption.
getting a second chance at a job is NOT redemption.
doing brilliantly at your job is NOT redemption.

Redemption is about atonement. It's about doing serious penance. It's about recognizing that what you did can never be made right -- he can't bring back the dogs he tortured to death or undo the suffering he inflicted on the survivors -- but doing everything you can to make up for it.

Contributing to the care and rehabilitation of his victims.
Contributing to the care and rehabilitation of other animal victims of like crimes.
For a lifetime.

That is redemption. Not kicking a stupid ball around, for fuck's sake.

[tnlefty]

75. Perhaps the President and First Lady will make a donatiion to

Best Friends as I have done to help pay for the care and rehab of the Vicktory Dogs that Best Friends is caring for. Both have more financial resources than I.

[ecstatic]

103. get a life folks

He is a grown man. He can do and say what he likes. It was a private conversation and the main point of it wasn't even about Vick! How would you like it if all your private conversations were twisted and made public?

[TBF]

105. He is the president of the United States - why would he have personal conversations about green

stadiums? Or is that yesterday's excuse and we've forgotten that by now ...