sarah palin/trig story: No better or worse than birther crap

[cali]

in fact, it's startlingly similar. but it is somewhat amusing to see people who have nothing but derision for birthers become that which they have such contempt for.

[stevenleser]

1. Probably. I have no interest in that story whatsoever.

There are real and meaningful reasons to be against Sarah Palin winning ANY public office.

[LeftishBrit]

83. +1

[anneboleyn]

127. Yes, great point. I am concerned by her policies, not her children/grandchildren conspiracy theories

It's her policies that are truly terrifying.

[theophilus]

2. Did Ms. Palin every make public her medical records during the campaign? n/t

[Kurovski]

40. Yes. (nt)

[Tx4obama]

42. No. There was only some sort of short summary from one doctor. n/t

[Kurovski]

44. You mean in regards to the pregnancy?

Because i recall that her regular records were released, as were McCain's.

The summary regarding the "pregnancy" was vague.

[Tx4obama]

46. No, Palin's records were NOT released. Only a two page letter. See below

SNIP

The McCain/Palin camp has released Governor Palin's medical records. Well, that's what they are calling a two page letter from Sarah Palin's doctor... yep, that's it.

Read it for yourself. Does she think this is releasing your medical records? That's like saying a book report is the same as the book. The letter was written by a friend and doctor of Governor Palin. The 48-year-old doctor, Cathy Baldwin-Johnson was nominated by the Alaska Chapter of AAFP, which had presented her with the Alaska Family Physician of the Year award for 2001." Letters of recommendation came from a variety of people, including the mayor of Wasilla and a commissioner for the state of Alaska."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/palins-medical-records-re_b_140784.html

Edited to add:
Here's the two page letter that was released: http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43179602.pdf

[Kurovski]

49. Thank you for that,Tx4obama

I appreciate it.

[WatsonT]

86. Wow, so exactly like the birther argument

[theophilus]

91. NOT. n/t

[WatsonT]

103. Ok, well whatever

I guess some people need their little conspiracies to clutch on to.

I guess this disqualifys her from being president and proves she was born in Kenya.

But ask yourself this: why do you care so much?

[stanwyck]

97. No. False equivalency alert. n/t

[WatsonT]

105. A) you don't have to make your medical records available to run for president

and B) this is the exact same argument used by birthers (why wasn't he carrying his birth certificate when I saw him give a talk in Akron? Answer me that!).

[stanwyck]

108. I don't need to see Palin's medical records. As the mother

of twins, I know what a 9 month pregnant woman looks like - I've seen the photos of Palin in TX right before she insisted on flying back to Alaska to give birth - and she was not pregnant. I'm using my eyes on the birth certificate - which I've seen. AND Palin's pregnancy - which does not exist in any photos. While she was governor. No photos of a pregnant Palin - who had her picture taken virtually every day. How does that happen? So...I'm going with pure observation here.

[WatsonT]

112. No doubt there are plenty

who "just know" what a kenyan looks like.

Either way I have to ask: why do you care?

[stanwyck]

117. You're right, I shouldn't. n/t

[polichick]

Once again, you overreact to this story - weird.

[Nye Bevan]

82. Not as weird as scrutinizing pictures of a teenage girl's breast to see if there is "leakage" (nt)

[pipi_k]

85. ewwwww...did people really DO that?

OK that's just sick.


Anyway, I don't care if UPS brought Trig to the Palin family...

[polichick]

93. Good grief, it's not about breasts or babies - it's about LIES...

...just like the John Edwards case.

And you can make the case that it's also about the media not doing its job.

[pipi_k]

101. But it appears that...

people were scrutinizing Bristol Palin's breasts to see if they might be leaking milk.

In order to "prove" a lie. A lie that would only matter IF she were the only politician who ever tried to pull off a lie.

Politicians lie. It's what they do.


I'm sorry, but enlarging photos to search for breast milk...that's just sick.

[polichick]

106. What can I say - investigative work is messy. lol

[pinto]

3. I couldn't care less about either story. One's none of my business and one's crap, as you note.

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

4. Is this discussion still going on?

I thought that was just this morning's chuckle and it had passed... weird.

[whosinpower]

5. Sarah conceived this story herself

She DOES love to be in the media spotlight.....


"And if ya just can't get some respect....the next bestest thing is sympathy....oh those evil liberals attacking Trig....."

Sarcasm.

[mzteris]

6. when a woman clearly has an issue

with the birth of their supposed child - I think that is a far greater issue than the unquestionable birthplace of President Obama.

It could be as simple as - Trig isn't her kid and it's a huge lie to cover up her daughter's premarital sex.

Or - even worse in some ways - she showed a complete and utter disregard for the health and safety of the baby she was carrying. Was she deliberately hoping this Down's Syndrome baby would - not be a problem - by flying thousands of mile, bypassing very good hospitals, and going to a local yokel clinic not suited for a high risk birth?

Either way - not the same. Not the same at all.

[eilen]

81. When I heard that story

all I could think about was -- how she managed to avoid throwing a clot. DVT is very common in air travel and when your are preggers---and in labor? Geez. High Risk is an understatement.

[WatsonT]

87. Ah good, so you're looking out for her best interests then

you're such a saint.

[mzteris]

118. your comment

Makes absolutely no sense at all in relation to what I posted. . . R u sure you responded to the right person?

[WatsonT]

119. You made a number of statements

about the unhealthiness of being pregnant while doing whatever.

I'm just glad you're only interested out of concern for her health.

[mzteris]

121. i don't give a crap about HER health...

the health of the baby is something else entirely.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tridim]

7. Nobody cares about that. What makes you think they do?

Sorry, just saw the thread on greatest.

I know I don't care about it.

[pintobean]

8. +1

[Kingofalldems]

9. I'd like to know why the truth seeking birthers

haven't jumped on this one. Oh wait. Nevermind.

[Obamanaut]

10. I've thought the same thing, and you put my thoughts into words, nicely. (rec) nt

[SidDithers]

11. +1...

Your sig gets more meaningful every day.

Sid

[cali]

12. heh.

blatant, willful stupidity is the worst.

[bbinacan]

13. AMEN! n/t

[asthmaticeog]

14. I disagree.

It's WAY funnier than birther crap. And funny is better.

Q.E.D. :patriot:

[Luminous Animal]

15. I usually hide the Palin threads but I'm kicking and reccing this one.

[Tx4obama]

16. There is a huge difference between the Palin LIE and the Obama Truth

President Obama was born in Hawaii and has released his bc.

On the other hand there is NO proof that Palin was ever pregnant.
And how do you explain the photos taken by the Alaska media of her just weeks before her alleged birth and she has a flat tummy.
And how about the photo that was taken with the 'square' pillow under her shirt?
And how come not even one person at work could tell she was pregnant two months before the alleged birth?

Oh no, they are NOT the same.

Palin is covering up something, and Obama is NOT!

[cali]

17. hahahahaha. you have no idea how funny that is.

[Tx4obama]

20. I've been following the Palin cover up for two years over on an Alaskan blog...

I think it is important to have all the 'facts' come out once and for all.
So, I hope there is some investigative reporting on the issue and the media gets to the bottom of it.

[HipChick]

21. Ditto...huge difference between the Palin hoax

and the trumped up Obama birther crap

[LanternWaste]

110. Precisely. Because Palin has zero history of being disingenuous

Precisely. Because Palin has zero history of being disingenuous, petulant or misleading-- to the public or her own co-workers; and there's no reason for anyone to doubt the veracity of any of her statements.

:shrug:

[renate]

24. exactly--*if* this is true, Palin came up with a cover story a high-school girl would have tried

Her unwillingness to admit unpleasant and embarrassing facts to her constituents says a lot about her insecurity and tendency to make excuses. It's like the way she bailed halfway through her term instead of sticking to her responsibilities like a grown-up.

Also, *if* this pregnancy story is true, Palin's lie originated with her. The birther theories did not originate with Obama. So I agree--there's a big difference. They may have the same relevance--none--at this point, since her star seems to be fading and Obama is in the White House. But I'm with you--there is a big difference between 1) wanting to examine the very real possibility that Palin tells fanciful stories when faced with an unpleasant reality and 2) making up pathetic and easily disproven crap about Obama's place of birth.

[treestar]

29. +1

There is a huge difference.

[Brother Buzz]

18. It's better - Sarah darling might actually take the bait

:rofl:

[Terra Alta]

19. I don't care about Palin, period.

Wish she would just drop off the face of the earth, and take Bristol with her.

[RichGirl]

22. DO. NOT. CARE.

[RebelOne]

114. Ditto. Same here. n/t

[darkstar3]

23. Not true. At all.

The birther bullshit with Obama is rooted in racism. He's black, he's different, and therefore we have to prove that not only is he not like us, but he's illegitimate. The cold hard fact of the birther movement is that it NEVER would have gained traction with a president who could pass for white.

The Palin story is an expose (where's the accented e when you need it...) of hypocrisy. The Palins, and all those who rabidly follow them, consider themselves to be members of the morally superior family values crowd. These are the people who champion the cause for abstinence only sexual education and revocation of women's rights. If the story is true, it shows them as the biggest hypocrites to be found on the current political stage.

No one is questioning Sarah's legitimacy to be President, and no one is interested in these rumors simply because of her skin tone.

[cali]

25. lol. yeah, sure. there's exactly NO FUCKING EVIDENCE

in either case.

[darkstar3]

26. I disagree, but that's beside the point.

We were talking about the conspiracy theories and their equivalence, not actual evidence. The conspiracy theories are not equivalent, for several reasons, and one of the main reasons is the way they started.

[Snoutport]

60. If she'd share the documents, like Obama has, the story would die

[Obamanaut]

79. Not necessarily. The birth certificate story continues to pop up. Evidence,

or lack of it, won't make any difference. People believe what they want to believe. For many, it doesn't matter - especially the baby mama story.

[mainer]

120. If true, whose baby is it? It can't be Bristol's

The timing is all wrong.

[Iwasthere]

27. There is good reason to stay on this

What if they had looked deeper into Bush's past, the blowing up of small animals as a child, the hazing and branding college students bums, the military cover ups and on and on? They all got waved off, no one wanted to be bothered. One day we might be going, "WTF happened, how the hell did she.....?"

[treestar]

28. Republican talking point

It's waaaaaaaaaaaaay more suspicious.

[pintobean]

43. Are you trying to say Republicans have common sense?

I'm not buying it.

[treestar]

78. Republican talking point that there is equivalency

The birther stuff is just insane. The Palin stuff has a bit of smoke.

[Matariki]

30. I disagree with you whole heartedly.

On the surface it's irrelevancy but in truth - if it's true it very clearly shows the extent of her pathological dishonesty.

[polichick]

31. Exactly - it's about the lies, same as with John Edwards.

[Matariki]

35. I only thought it mattered when she was running for office.

Now, not so much. If she runs in the future, then it matters again. I mean seriously, stuffing a pillow in your clothes and telling people you're pregnant? That's fucked up, dishonest behavior.

[polichick]

37. Maybe this is one reason she doesn't seem to be running...

It is pretty crazy behavior.

[Fuzz]

32. Though there is a ring of truth to what you say, this story is nowhere close to having the attention

or interest of the left that birther crap does for the right or the media.

[cali]

33. thank dog for small blessings n/t

[seabeyond]

34. the thing. every mom knows, she lied about labor story, or she lied about having kid.

that is all. one way or another,

she lied.

that is all i am saying.

[sellitman]

36. One story is rooted in bigotry, one is not.

That alone is all thats important here IMHO

[Liquorice]

61. When people are magnifiying photos

of a woman's stomach to see whether she is lying about being pregnant and scrutinizing pictures of a teenage girl's breast to see if there is "leakage," I'd say there's some level of sexism (or at least creepiness) about the whole thing.

[Capitalocracy]

111. I agree...

and I actually think the story might be true. But I'm not going to look for evidence that way.

We have a long history, however, of people doing exactly what the Palins are being accused of... hiding a young person's pregnancy and claiming that the grandmother is the mother. If this is true (and I'm not saying it is but I'm not dismissing the possibility either), what it demonstrates is the danger the GOP in its current form represents for the U.S.: a reversal of social progress, moving us back to those "simpler times" when people had the very sexist attitude of not talking about sex, not educating about sex or encouraging safe sex, then hiding the "shameful" natural consequence of these actions, accidental pregnancies. This extreme sexism leads to the denial of one of the most basic human rights, the right to identity.

[bluestate10]

38. Incredibly poor story. Let loser Palin disappear. nt

[EvolveOrConvolve]

39. It's worse because we should be better than that

Maybe we're really not any better than "them"? I dunno anymore...

Conspiracy theories are a stupid waste of time because we have real issues of poverty, hunger, health care, needless wars, economy-raping corporate thieves and voting "irregularities" that should be so much more important than what did or didn't happen in Sarah Palin's vagina.

[Iwasthere]

41. It is what happens in her brain...

There are others in high places that have similar brains... we shouldn't allow any of them to get away with their sick lies

[Logical]

45. I 100% agree with you!

[Little Star]

47. I do not understand why people believe Trig is not her child?

Just don't get it. Also see no connection to the Obama birther crap. :shrug:

[Tx4obama]

50. Because we've seen photos of her a few weeks before the date she said she gave birth

and she had a very FLAT tummy.

Here's good article with photos: http://www.businessinsider.com/sarah-palin-baby-hoax-2011-4?op=1

And lots of photos here: http://palingates.blogspot.com/search/label/babygate

[scarletwoman]

48. Well, I rec'd your OP, for all the good that it did.

But once folks have a good head of self-righteousness going, there's no reasoning with them.

sw

[Tx4obama]

53. There is nothing to reason about. Just look at the photos that prove she wasn't pregnant.

Lots of photos here: http://palingates.blogspot.com/search/label/babygate

[scarletwoman]

54. What difference does it make? Seriously, what profoundly important political end is served

by wallowing in a birth-related conspiracy theory?

[Tx4obama]

56. Because she needs to be exposed as a liar, in order to decrease her fund raising capibility

If she is exposed as a liar then she will not raise as much money in the future as she does now with her PAC and then she won't be able to fund REPUBLICAN candidates that we are running against.

Anything that helps to decrease republican money is a 'good thing' :)

[scarletwoman]

57. Right. Because anyone inclined to send her money might be put off by a Republican politician lying.

This is just cosmic-level stupid thinking.

[DefenseLawyer]

66. You really think that if this were proven true

-Like tearful confession, Jimmy Swaggart style, proven true- that it wouldn't destroy her politically? I'm not weighing in on the merits of the claims one way or the other, but your conclusion that this would be no big deal seems exceedingly unlikely.

[GreenArrow]

115. Because, for good or bad,

people take glee in seeing hypocrites and liars unmasked.

I see little equivalency in Babygate and Kenyagate; a better, if still imperfect, analog to the Palin story is GWB's Awolgate compared to the John Kerry swift boat fiasco.

[Dorian Gray]

51. That's what I think, too

(Though this can be called "birther" too.)

[bullwinkle428]

52. This story is pretty much of a yawner for me these days, and becomes

increasingly more so given her slow spiral into irrelevance.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. You might be right if she wasn't using the kid as an anti-choice prop.

Since she's decided to make her personal life part and parcel of the long-running GOP quest to throw women in jail for using birth control, you know what? Fuck it, fair game.

[Taverner]

58. I think it looks bad that a professor has written an academic study proving Trig is Palin's Grandson

And yes, it is probably true, but does it matter? Really?

Palin's fans will still love her, most Republicans will work around her and most people hate her. Knowing she lied about her kid won't change any of that. If she rises to power, it will be without the consent of the people, and this will make no difference.

[JackRiddler]

77. "Proving" is strong stuff. It's evidence, or as the lawyers say: rebuttable presumption.

DNA testing is proof (though I don't know if it would work in this case). The Palin story evidence is circumstantial, and probably wishful. The 20-hour Flight to Egypt... sorry, Alaska... after her water broke is surely a strong indicator of... something, although not by itself proof for a specific hypothesis. As for the pictures, these usually say a lot less than people think.

[Kingofalldems]

59. Put Orly on the case

[trusty elf]

75. Orly is indisposed.

[BlueCheese]

62. I know.

I used to think poorly of Republicans for some of their widely held beliefs--the ideas that cutting taxes raises revenues, that evolution is false, that climate change science is some giant liberal hoax, that Bill and Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster, that Obama was born in Kenya.

Ha ha, I used to think. The good thing about Democrats is that we're reality-based. We don't believe things just because we want them to be true. And then this things keeps coming back.

[Horse with no Name]

63. And in the center of all of the Palin shit

is a defenseless child. I have no reason to harm him nor do I find it necessary to know who his birth mother is. I detest Palin...and there are many reasons to despise her and her politics...however, I'm not going to attempt to do it this way.

[DefenseLawyer]

64. So, hypothetically...

If Sarah Palin came out tomorrow and admitted to this hoax, that would be fine with you? I'm not saying it's true, but I must say, IF it were true, I don't see how anyone could be so cavalier about a lie of that magnitude as you would seem to be.

[Horse with no Name]

92. Palin is a liar and a grifter

Would it shock me if she said she lied again? No.

However, this is a family matter--not one of worldwide significance.

Do I honestly think that he is Palin's child? No. There seems to be ample proof that he isn't her biological child. BUT, the matter of the birth of Trig is not one of national importance...and throughout history there are MANY parents out there who have done the same thing she has done. Is it REALLY protecting Bristol? In the long run, I don't think so...especially since Bristol since has had another child.

It would be of GREAT concern if it were found out that Todd was found out to be the father and Bristol the mother AND that Palin covered up the incest. TO me, that is a more plausible story than anything that I have heard and the fact that the child was born with Down's could support that. THAT would be the only reason that any of this would really be any of our business.

[JackRiddler]

65. This is a morphological fallacy.

The two stories look the same because they're both used by partisans in the depoliticized "politics of personal destruction," and in both cases those who are promoting the stories pursue the details with a kind of disturbing pathology. Also, both stories initially sound outlandish. However, "looking the same" doesn't mean that if one is false, the other one must also be.

The birth certificate stuff is false, besides being motivated by racist myth (not white therefore not really American) and furthermore: who cares? Seriously. Because it would have no impact on what he does in office if he was born in Kenya, any more than it mattered that McCain actually WAS born in Panama. (It's just so weird how the Republicans are always doing projection.)

The Trig story would also have no impact on what she does in office (she'd be just as bad). If it were true, it actually wouldn't be that unusual within the Christianist milieu. And it would put the lie to her family values nonsense, but of course a million other things she's done already did that.

Anyway, I don't imagine it coincidental that Palin endorsed birtherism and then a week later got slapped with this. There must not be a direct connection given the short time-frame (i.e., the new paper is not a direct retaliation) but there's a justice in it.

.

[howard112211]

74. +1 for objectiveness.

[Gormy Cuss]

67. They're not equivalent.

If Palin's story on the birth of Trig is a lie, that only affects people's perception of her character.
If Obama wasn't born in the U.S. he would be an illegitimate president.

The Palin/Trig rumors are just gossip. The Obama rumor is a concerted attempt to get him out of office.

[LooseWilly]

68. Amusing to watch people become that which they have contempt for?...

You mean like the Obama-faithful becoming as fanatical as the Bush-faithful once were?

Birthers and Grandmotherers are, I would agree, somewhat similar in that they so distrust the opposition that they see conspiracy wherever there is the possibility to see it. It's human nature... and, as you pretty well established in your OP, Democrats really are "No better or worse than" Republicans... in their basic human dignity and value as human beings (as, obviously, measured in their willingness to accept/reject birther/grandparenter arguments about "the enemy")

I think you're on to something cali... I think all people suck, Democrat and Republican alike... and I suspect that it is that realization that people suck which has propelled Obama to make such startling compromises with the Republicans... because, I believe, Obama has come to the realization that people all suck, as you so ably demonstrate with your OP, but corporations, while they may be "citizens" or "individuals", will never be 'people'... and so they can never suck as much as people... and, I firmly believe, that is why Obama has decided to move toward more and more "Right" positions.

He wants to protect people from "people" who suck... birthers and the like, by turning over the mechanisms of protection to corporations who, I believe Obama has concluded, don't suck like people do.

Those of us who are also opposed to "people" need to fall in line and support Obama, so he can fight the "startlingly similar" 'people' from each side of the political divide with the only army available to fight both... the corporate armies.

[Raine]

69. The birthers are nothing but fucking racists

of course I have nothing but derision and contempt for them as everyone should have for disgusting racists. :mad: :grr:

[mfcorey1]

70. Tit for tat is okay with me. Now the birthers know how it feels. People who live in glass houses

should not throw stones and on and on and on. Next!!!!!!!!!!!

[mfcorey1]

71. BTW, It is interesting the raw nerves that have been touched by this story. nt

[howard112211]

72. It is a logical fallacy to equate them. Each story stands or falls on its own.

Just because one story is bullshit doesn't mean the other is.

That said: I haven't looked into the evidence of the Palin story at all, so I really have no opinion on the truth or falsehood of it.

But I do think that there are methods, other than DNA evidence, with which one could make a plausible case for the scenario. Analysing photographs, timeframes, etc. can go a long way. Criminal justice has only recently started to use DNA, and did a reasonable job regardless, in the past, based on whitness accounts, fotografs, and so on, so I do not see why the same methods could not be applied here.

[tkmorris]

73. Cali this is why you have irritated so many people over the years

Sometimes you are right, and sometimes you are wrong (like now in my opinion), and that's fine. The trouble is you are just so bloody SURE of your opinions. There is no point in engaging you, ever, because to disagree with you means to invite your arrogant derision.

These two things are not the same. There is ample evidence that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii; there is no evidence of any kind that Sarah Palin gave birth to that child. Only a crudely crafted story, with holes in it you could steer the CVN George W. Bush through. I don't give a rat's ass frankly, such as Ms. Palin have been full of shit since times unrecorded, but your post targets those who for whatever reason see through her facade, not Palin herself. In fact you equate them with Teabaggers, which is nonsense of the highest order.

If you want to disagree with people who believe Sarah Palin is lying about this, or argue that it's better not to care, fine. Equating it with teabagger fantasies however is just offensive. Perhaps that's the intent, I don't know. If so carry on smartly I suppose.

[pintobean]

76. No, what has irritated so many people over the years

is her refusal to abandon logic and reason. Nor will she ignore relevant facts. She use to patiently explain her point of view to anybody and everybody. All it ever got her were personal attacks, and they often came in pile ons. Her elbows have become rather sharp as a result of this.

FYI - teabaggers and birthers are not the same thing. Tweety is a birther. I wouldn't call him a bagger.

[Pathwalker]

90. Tweety is a birther? Then why does he call them crazy racists on his show?

He's been excoriating Trump regularly on his show, shows the President's birth certificate quite often, and this makes him a birther - how?

[pintobean]

94. You are correct

I was going by something I had read several months ago. I went back and checked and it was debunked as taken out of context.

[cleanhippie]

88. +1 - "because to disagree with you means to invite your arrogant derision."

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[stanwyck]

96. I agree. Cali is promoting a false equivalency.

Just like O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, and all the other rightwing media do constantly. Take two totally different issues and make them equal - when they're not.

[bettyellen]

128. you got that right, but i think she was spewing out of ignorance

[polichick]

98. Well said.

[chrisa]

80. Is Sarah Palin an Alien, with Trig being an Alien baby (y/n)?

[LeftishBrit]

84. My real problem with the Sarah Palin/Trig issue...

is that it implies that the finer details of politicians' private lives are key to their right to office; that the media and political opponents should have a right to hound them about this; and that concealing things from such people (not saying that she did or didn't) is equivalent to perjury. It reminds me not so much of the birthers, as of the impeachment of Bill Clinton over a blow-job.

We already know that Palin's daughter had an unwanted teenage pregnancy, despite the 'abstinence-only' views of her mother. I don't see that the current allegation does more to bring these attitudes into question than what is already on record.

Because Palin is such a vile person in so many ways (I now use the term 'Palinism' for any sort of vicious religious-right agenda anywhere), it is difficult to sympathize with her when people go after *her* private life. But what is done to Palin can and will be done to others. What about the time when it was Clinton? What about Joe or Jane Bloggs, who might have been an excellent politician but will never run for office because they don't want to face having everything about their own or their families' personal lives dissected by opponents or sensational journalists? What about the public, whose lives come to depend more and more on leaders chosen for what they do or don't do about sex, rather than for their competence or policies?

[pipi_k]

89. So some here are trying to make the birther stuff all about bigotry...

in order to justify their odd interest in who gave birth to Trig...

I just wonder how it would be if things were changed around just a little.

Just for the hell of it, let's pretend that Palin is a black Democrat and Obama is a white Republican.

Obama's dad was born in Sweden and his mom was born in America. Everything else is the same except he's white and a Republican. I'll bet anything the same people jumping up and down in rage over the Republicans and the birther issue would be dogging Obama for not producing a birth certificate. Because, you know, he's Republican.

Then there would be Sarah Palin. She's a Democrat. She's black. If the Republicans were going after her trying to prove Trig is really her daughter's son, I can just imagine the shit storm here. People accusing those Republicans of being "racist", implying that just because the Palin family is black, there has to be some back story involving black teen pregnancy, etc. etc.

Or, let's pretend that both Palin and Obama are white. Or that they're both black.

Then the playing field is even except for....

One is Republican, one is Democrat.

So this really doesn't have anything to do with whatever excuses people want to find for dogging on someone ONLY because of their political party.


We're supposed to be smarter than that here. Not as hypocritical as the "morans" over on the-site-which-shall-not-be-named.

:eyes:

[JackRiddler]

116. Let's pretend grandma was a train.

Your examples are fictions, so you can make up whatever you like. That's convenient, since reality doesn't support your argument. I say past history shows that the Democratic black woman would get the treatment you say; the Republican white man would never.

If a white Republican had a Swedish parent and a missing birth certificate (not the case with Obama, by the way), it would be absolutely no issue whatsoever for either the left or Democrats. It's not the kind of thing that gets them excited, for one thing. However, I cannot know this for sure, since your example is fictional. With fiction, we each get to write the ending we prefer. I merely find yours absurd. You can't find a real example that fits your scenario, which is why I think you made one up.

Now, in real life, I can point to a lot of cases where Americans with darker skin or non-European ethnicity were rendered into foreigners or insinuated as foreign-influenced by right-wing propaganda. This has even happened to Irish, Jews and Italians, the last not so long ago (Ferraro).

[pipi_k]

122. If what I proposed was fiction...

then so is the insistence, by some, that Trig could not possibly be SP's child because of certain "facts" which are only apparent to the people who truly want to believe she lied.

Or that the birther issue exists because of rampant racism in the minds of those who perpetuate the issue. No proof. Just opinions from people who can't be more imaginative in their search for reasons why anyone would care where Obama was born.

I see it a lot here. If the person in question is other than white, then it's got to be "racism". People who don't like Obama...well, they're all racists. There can't possibly be any other reason for their dislike. :eyes:

Of course my scenario isn't real. What I was hoping for was that someone would be a tad bit honest and admit that, yes, perhaps there would be a different opinion on whether SP has the right to privacy in the matter of her son, Trig. I still maintain that if it were a Democrat woman this was happening with, even if she weren't black, people here would be going bullshit over Republican attempts to "prove" that a child is not hers.

In other words, it seems like many here are willing to do unto others what they would not want done to them (or the politicians/Party they support) and then give some really lame justifications for why it's OK.

[stanwyck]

95. Hate to say this, Cali. But this is a false equivalency

which is the bread and butter of rightwing radio/media. Take two totally different issues and declare them equal. Evolution is equal to intelligent design. Why? Because we say so - no facts required. Global warming science is equal to oil co. paid for "science" - even though it isn't.

[negativenihil]

99. Here is the main difference.

The so-called "liberal media" will gleefully put Trump on and let him spew his bullshit about Obama and his birth certificate - while the "liberal media" simply took Palin at her word and let the story be declared a conspiracy theory without actually digging into it. Those who DID look into it, hit brick walls at every turn.

Anyway, whatever. I'm done playing by these rules. It's time to fight fire with fire and expose this liar before she has a chance to win the presidency. Trig is not her child. Plain and simple.

[Taverner]

100. AFAIC It's a useless distraction

Who cares, to be honest.

There are greater travesties going on right now that dwarf any of that


This is just a bone they threw out to the Dems for distraction

[LibertyLover]

102. I have to say that I really don't care if Ms. Palin gave birth to Trig

or if Ms. Palin's daughter gave birth to Trig. What matters is that Ms. Palin claimed him as her son. Having done that she is responsible for him and from what I have seen, I don't believe his best interests are being met. When her cable show was on, my husband and I would catch parts of it. Whenever Trig was shown, it seemed to me that his Down Syndrome was on the moderate to severe side of the range rather then mild to moderate. Yet there was no evidence that he was being provided with early interventional therapy. If that is the case, Ms. Palin is not providing the care that Trig needs. I hope that I am wrong.

[Drew Richards]

104. The truth about trig

Well I have heard that Trig is actually a product of incest between Todd and Bristol...

***Not Intended To Be A Factual Statement***

[polichick]

109. Hadn't heard that one before.

[Zanzoobar]

107. +1

[ladywnch]

113. and who gives a shit! n/t

[mainer]

123. Whose kid is it, then? It can't be Bristol's

the timing is all off.

[WatsonT]

125. I hear trig was born in Kenya

and circumcised by a muslim cleric.

[bettyellen]

129. well the thing is no one actually knows when or where that kid was born

the hospital did not put the kid in their roster as they do for baby births. the only evidence is that Palin's parents were seen there holding the baby after she issued a press release about it.

[bluestate10]

126. Agree. Let Palin sink into the pit that is her destiny. Don't do stuff that gets her sympathy. nt