lakota deserve apology for wounded knee, 120 years ago today

[niyad]

Lakota Deserve Apology for Wounded Knee, 120 Years Ago

by Mark Anthony Rolo

The 120th anniversary of the Wounded Knee Massacre should serve as a reminder of the U.S. government's brutal war on American Indians.

On the morning of Dec. 29, 1890, the U.S. 7th Calvary attacked a Lakota community camped along Wounded Knee Creek in South Dakota. Soldiers indiscriminately shot the Lakota, killing at least 150. Most of them were women and children. About 30 soldiers also died, some from friendly fire.

Many historians consider this bloodbath to be the sad endpoint of the Indian Wars. To make way for the white conquest of the West, the U.S. army subjugated the Indian nations, and Congress forced them into giving up most of their lands through coerced treaties. But America's failure to live up to its end of the bargain- food, clothing and other provisions - led to great Indian unrest.

By the turn of the 20th century,. the West was secured for white settlers. Indian tribes were, for the most part, demoralized and forgotten.

But the Indian Wars did not end on the frozen banks of Wounded Knee Creek. America continued its efforts to subdue the Indian with new strategies.

A policy of privatizing Indian property allowed for increased white land-grabbing. Tribes lost millions of acreage. The oppressive practice of sending Indian kids off to white boarding schools remained in effect. Thousands of Indian children were removed from their homes and shipped off to military-style schools designed to "kill the Indian, but save the man."

. . . . .

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/12/29-10

[iamtechus]

1. They deserve much more than an apology! (nt)

[niyad]

2. indeed they do, but are not likely to ever get it.

[AsahinaKimi]

6. I agree

Even the Japanese put in interment camps received some compensation.

1990a
(674-5) As the years passed and the emotions of war faded, Americans began to recognize the injustice that had been done. Finally, in 1988, Congress voted overwhelmingly to formally apologize to Japanese Americans who were driven from their homes in World War II and to give $20,000 to each surviving internee. Although it was acknowledged that nothing was adequate to right the enormous wrong of the past, the action by Congress helped Americans to close this unfortunate chapter in their history.

http://homepage3.nifty.com/ubiquitous/Japanese-Americans_E/Page13.htm

[etherealtruth]

3. So much more is deserved

The least "we" can do is teach about the massacre of the Lakota people at Wounded Knee in our schools. An acknowledgment and acceptance of responsibility (on the part of the US government)for atrocities committed is a start.

[niyad]

60. so would be giving back the money the BIA has stolen over the decades

[arcane1]

4. Thanks for the post!!

:toast:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. Marlon Brando brought attention to the plight of native Americans and that

is something I respect him for more than anything else he had accomplished in his life.

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/story/native-americans-pay-tribute-to-marlon-brando


American Indians are among those mourning the death of MARLON BRANDO because he was known as "a great warrior".

The actor lost his life on Thursday (01JUL04) after battling lung failure and among the things he'll be remembered for is declining his THE GODFATHER OSCAR as a protest about the way Native Americans were treated in their homeland.

Brando, who was not at the ceremony in 1972 to personally decline his honour, sent a Native American woman to the stage on his behalf - and won the hearts of Indians.

[niyad]

59. I never liked brando as an actor, but admired his fight for native americans. I remember the flack

he caught for that academy awards thing.

[awoke_in_2003]

78. His "I could have been a contender"...

scene in "The Waterfront" was pure gold.

[awoke_in_2003]

80. and to emphasize....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeVq1e6JKlw&feature=related

on edit- changed the link for the whole scene

[EFerrari]

7. The massacre at Wounded Knee

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/woundedknee/WKmscr.html

[Solly Mack]

8. k/r

[foxfeet]

9. K&R to keep it visible.

[hfojvt]

10. you mean besides this one?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE5DA1F38F93AA15753C1A966958260

"The House, on a voice vote, gave final Congressional approval Thursday to a resolution expressing "deep regret" for the event that marked the end of the Indian wars. The Senate approved the measure last week." Oct 28, 1990

Also, the Rollo account is not accurate. "On the morning of Dec. 29, 1890, the U.S. 7th Calvary attacked a Lakota community camped"

The 7th Cavalry met a group led by Chief Bigfoot with orders to disarm the group. They proceeeded to camp together, and Dee Brown (some anti-Native American source) says "Because of the gathering darkness, Major Whitside decided to wait until morning before disarming his prisoners. He assigned them a camp area immediately to the south of the military camp, issued them rations and as there was a shortage of teepee covers, he furnished them several tents. Whitside ordered a stove placed in Big Foot's tent and sent a regimental surgeon to administer to the sick chief." 441

There are conflicting accounts about what happened after that. One report said that there was a mostly deaf Native American who did not want to give up his gun, and didn't understand what was going on, a wrestling match over the gun ensued and the gun went off which lead to a barrage of shooting.

Another eyewitness acount says this

"Forsyth and I went to the circle of warriors where he told me to tell the medicine man to sit down and keep quiet, but he paid no attention to the order. Forsyth repeated the order. Big Foot's brother-in-law answered, 'He will sit down when he gets around the circle.' When the medicine man came to the end of the circle, he squatted down. A cavalry sergeant exclaimed, 'There goes an Indian with a gun under his blanket!' Forsyth ordered him to take the gun from the Indian, which he did. Whitside then said to me, 'Tell the Indians it is necessary that they be searched one at a time.' The young warriors paid no attention to what I told them. I heard someone on my left exclaim, 'Look out! Look out!' I saw five or six young warriors cast off their blankets and pull guns out from under them and brandish them in the air. One of the warriors shot into the soldiers, who were ordered to fire into the Indians."

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/knee.htm

If that story is true, then why apologize for shooting back at people who are shooting at you? Should the Lakota have to apologize then for the Little Bighorn?

To me. the quote from Brown shows that there was no intent to create a massacre, but when you have armed groups that do not trust each other, then people will shoot in order to avoid becoming a casualty.

[niyad]

14. somewhat at odds with this account:

The Massacre at Wounded Knee

After Sitting Bull's death, Big Foot feared for the safety of his band, which consisted in large part of widows of the Plains wars and their children. Big Foot himself had been placed on the list of "fomenters of disturbances," and his arrest had been ordered. He led his band toward Pine Ridge, hoping for the protection of Red Cloud. However, he fell ill from pneumonia on the trip and was forced to travel in the back of a wagon. As they neared Porcupine Creek on December 28, the band saw 4 troops of cavalry approaching. A white flag was immediately run up over Big Foot's wagon. When the two groups met, Big Foot raised up from his bed of blankets to greet Major Samuel Whitside of the Seventh Cavalry. His blankets were stained with blood and blood dripped from his nose as he spoke.

Whitside informed him of his orders to take the band to their camp on Wounded Knee Creek. Big Foot replied that they were going that way, to Pine Ridge. The major wanted to disarm the Indians right then but was dissuaded by his scout John Shangreau, in order to avoid a fight on the spot. They agreed to wait to undertake this until they reached camp. Then, in a moment of sympathy, the major ordered his army ambulance brought forward to accept the ill Minneconjou chief, providing a warmer and more comfortable ride. They then proceeded toward the camp at Wounded Knee Creek, led by two cavalry troops with the other two troops bringing up the rear with their Hotchkiss guns. They reached the camp at twilight.

At the camp, the Indians were carefully counted; there were 120 men and 230 women and children. Major Whitside decided to wait until morning to disarm the band. They were assigned a camp site just to the south of the cavalry camp, given rations, and provided with several tents as there was a shortage of tepee covers. A stove was provided for Big Foot's tent and the doctor was sent to give aid to the chief. To guarantee against escape from the camp, two troops of cavalry were posted around the Indian tents and the Hotchkiss guns were placed on the top of a rise overlooking the camp. The guns were aimed directly at the lodges.

During the night the rest of the Seventh Cavalry marched in and set up north of Major Whitside's troops. Two more Hotchkiss guns were placed beside the two already aimed at the lodges. Colonel John Forsyth took over command of the operation and informed Major Whitside that he had orders to take the band to the railroad to be shipped to a military prison in Omaha.

In the morning a bugle call awakened the camp and the men were told to come to the center of the camp for a talk. After the talk they would move to Pine Ridge. Big Foot was brought out and seated before his tent. The older men of the band gathered around him. Hardtack was issued for breakfast. Then the Indians were informed that they would be disarmed. They stacked their guns in the center, but the soldiers were not satisfied. The soldiers went through the tents, bringing out bundles and tearing them open, throwing knives, axes, and tent stakes into the pile. Then they ordered searches of the individual warriors. The Indians became very angry but only one spoke out, the medicine man, Yellow Bird. He danced a few steps of the Ghost Dance and chanted in Sioux, telling the Indians that the bullets would not hurt them, they would go right by.

The search found only two rifles, one brand new, belonging to a young man named Black Coyote. He raised it over his head and cried out that he had spent much money for the rifle and that it belonged to him. Black Coyote was deaf and therefore did not respond promptly to the demands of the soldiers. He would have been convinced to put it down by the Sioux, but that option was not possible. He was grabbed by the soldiers and spun around. Then a shot was heard; its source is not clear but it began the killing. The only arms the Indians had were what they could grab from the pile. When the Hotchkiss guns opened up, shrapnel shredded the lodges, killing men, women and children, indiscriminately. They tried to run but were shot down "like buffalo," women and children alike.
. . . .

http://www.hanksville.org/daniel/lakota/Wounded_Knee.html


or this one:

Massacre At Wounded Knee, 1890

Printer Friendly Version >>>

On the morning of December 29, 1890, the Sioux chief Big Foot and some 350 of his followers camped on the banks of Wounded Knee creek. Surrounding their camp was a force of U.S. troops charged with the responsibility of arresting Big Foot and disarming his warriors. The scene was tense. Trouble had been brewing for months.

The hope of
the Ghost Dance
The once proud Sioux found their free-roaming life destroyed, the buffalo gone, themselves confined to reservations dependent on Indian Agents for their existence. In a desperate attempt to return to the days of their glory, many sought salvation in a new mysticism preached by a Paiute shaman called Wovoka. Emissaries from Map of Battle Areathe Sioux in South Dakota traveled to Nevada to hear his words. Wovoka called himself the Messiah and prophesied that the dead would soon join the living in a world in which the Indians could live in the old way surrounded by plentiful game. A tidal wave of new soil would cover the earth, bury the whites, and restore the prairie. To hasten the event, the Indians were to dance the Ghost Dance. Many dancers wore brightly colored shirts emblazoned with images of eagles and buffaloes. These "Ghost Shirts" they believed would protect them from the bluecoats' bullets. During the fall of 1890, the Ghost Dance spread through the Sioux villages of the Dakota reservations, revitalizing the Indians and bringing fear to the whites. A desperate Indian Agent at Pine Ridge wired his superiors in Washington, "Indians are dancing in the snow and are wild and crazy....We need protection and we need it now. The leaders should be arrested and confined at some military post until the matter is quieted, and this should be done now." The order went out to arrest Chief Sitting Bull at the Standing Rock Reservation. Sitting Bull was killed in the attempt on December 15. Chief Big Foot was next on the list.

When he heard of Sitting Bull's death, Big Foot led his people south to seek protection at the Pine Ridge Reservation. The army intercepted the band on December 28 and brought them to the edge of the Wounded Knee to camp. The next morning the chief, racked with pneumonia and dying, sat among his warriors and powwowed with the army officers. Suddenly the sound of a shot pierced the early morning gloom. Within seconds the charged atmosphere erupted as Indian braves scurried to retrieve their discarded rifles and troopers fired volley after volley into the Sioux camp. From the heights above, the army's Hotchkiss guns raked the Indian teepees with grapeshot. Clouds of gun smoke filled the air as men, women and children scrambled for their lives. Many ran for a ravine next to the camp only to be cut down in a withering cross fire.

When the smoke cleared and the shooting stopped, approximately 300 Sioux were dead, Big Foot among them. Twenty-five soldiers lost their lives. As the remaining troopers began the grim task of removing the dead, a blizzard swept in from the North. A few days later they returned to complete the job. Scattered fighting continued, but the massacre at Wounded Knee effectively squelched the Ghost Dance movement and ended the Indian Wars.
. . . . . .

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/knee.htm

or this one:

Ghost Dance Shirt
Ghost Dance Shirt
The Wounded Knee Massacre

White officials became alarmed at the religious fervor and in December 1890 banned the Ghost Dance on Lakota reservations.When the rites continued, officials called in troops to Pine Ridge and Rosebud reservations in South Dakota. The military, led by veteran General Nelson Miles, geared itself for another campaign.

The presence of the troops exacerbated the situation. Short Bull and Kicking Bear led their followers to the northwest corner of the Pine Ridge reservation, to a sheltered escarpment known as the Stronghold. The dancers sent word to Sitting Bull of the Hunkpapas to join them. Before he could set out from the Standing Rock reservation in North Dakota, however, he was arrested by Indian police. A scuffle ensued in which Sitting Bull and seven of his warriors were slain. Six of the policemen were killed.

General Miles had also ordered the arrest of Big Foot, who had been known to live along the Cheyenne River in South Dakota. But, Big Foot and his followers had already departed south to Pine Ridge, asked there by Red Cloud and other supporters of the whites, in an effort to bring tranquility. Miles sent out the infamous Seventh Calvary led by Major Whitside to locate the renegades. They scoured the Badlands and finally found the Miniconjou dancers on Porcupine Creek, 30 miles east of Pine Ridge. The Indians offered no resistance. Big Foot, ill with pneumonia, rode in a wagon. The soldiers ordered the Indians to set up camp five miles westward, at Wounded Knee Creek. Colonel James Forsyth arrived to take command and ordered his guards to place four Hotchkiss cannons in position around the camp. The soldiers now numbered around 500; the Indians 350, all but 120 of these women and children.

The following morning, December 29, 1890, the soldiers entered the camp demanding the all Indian firearms be relinquished. A medicine man named Yellow Bird advocated resistance, claiming the Ghost Shirts would protect them. One of the soldiers tried to disarm a deaf Indian named Black Coyote. A scuffle ensued and the firearm discharged. The silence of the morning was broken and soon other guns echoed in the river bed. At first, the struggle was fought at close quarters, but when the Indians ran to take cover, the Hotchkiss artillery opened up on them, cutting down men, women, children alike, the sick Big Foot among them. By the end of this brutal, unnecessary violence, which lasted less than an hour, at least 150 Indians had been killed and 50 wounded. In comparison, army casualties were 25 killed and 39 wounded. Forsyth was later charged with killing the innocents, but exonerated.

. . . . .

http://www.lastoftheindependents.com/wounded.htm

[mikekohr]

40. After the initial firing the soldiers hunted the fleeing women and children kiling them one

by one, for a period of over three hours. In some cases, the soldiers called out to young children and women to come out of hiding and then shot them as they surrendered. Some of the dead were found over 3 miles from the camp. Regardless of how the initial shooting began one must wonder about the mindset of the soldiers that butchered the women and children. This was of course the 7th Calvary, and many of the soldiers had spent the night drinking whiskey asking the age of the men and inquiring if they had been at the battle of the Little Big Horn. Was revenge a motive? One may argue about the bungling ineptitude of Colonel Whiteside that led up to the initial exchange of fire. One can not excuse what followed.


?

On December 29th, 1890, a band of Lakota people led by
Spotted Elk ( Chief Bigfoot) was encircled by the Seventh
Calvary, at the place called Cankpe Opi Wakpala, the creek
called Wounded Knee. In the early morning hours the men
were assembled in a semi-circle formation in front of the tipis
and disarmed.
A holy man fearing for the lives of his people stood up and beseeched the
creator and asked for protection for the lives of the people.
A shot rang out and the soldiers fired en masse into the sitting
Lakota men, killing most of them instantly. The horror was only
beginning.
The women and children ran as the soldiers chased them
down and killed them one by one. The slaughter continued
for over three hours. Some of the dead were found over three miles
from the campsite.
In vol.3, issue 1, "The Lakota Journal" listed the names of the Lakota
victims of the massacre at Wounded Knee. Four-hundred and five were
listed as killed. Of this number, 69 were identified as infants or young children,
133 were identified as women, the remaining 203 were identified as
men or had no gender or age identification. Of the total dead, 39 were
identified as elders.
The bodies were left to freeze onto the prairie. Over the next three
days survivors and relatives recovered nearly half of the dead. On
the third day a government burial detail arrived to bury the remaining
victims. The bodies were stripped of valuables and dropped into a
mass grave.
A 40 year old, named Last Man, lay gutshot, frozen
to the ground until he was discovered on the 5th of January, 8 days
after the slaughter of December 29th. Last Man died at 8am on
January 6th, 1891.
The United States government awarded 23 Medals of Honor to
members of the Seventh Calvary for their service to the nation at this
place, the creek called Wounded Knee. 45).
Chief Bigfoot's body was scalped and the trophy was sent to
the Seventh Cavalry's museum in Massachusetts. There it remained
over the protests of Chief Bigfoot's family until the summer of 2000.
The last remains of Chief Bigfoot were returned to the place of his
birth, 109 years after his murder.


"I did not know then how much had ended. When I look back
from this high hill of my old age I can still see the butchered
women and children lying heaped and scattered all along the
crooked gulch as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young.
And I can see that something else died there in the bloody mud
and was buried in the blizzard. A peoples dream died there. It
was a beautiful dream....the nation's hoop is broken and scattered.
There is no center any longer and the sacred tree is dead."

BLACK ELK
-Lakota-

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/woundedknee.html

[hfojvt]

49. if that it true, then I find that very revolting

at least about the women and children, and Bigfoot being scalped.

That some were found three miles away is not proof that they were hunted down and killed. As Last Man shows, a person can get shot and survive for some time afterwards. A person could get shot in the camp and make it a few miles away before dying of their wounds.

As for killing women and children, that is especially barbarous, but let's not pretend that it never happens in wars or battles. I give you the example of my relative Thomas Kingsbury born 1653, son of Henry Kingsbury and Susanna. His first wife was Deborah Corliss born 6 jun 1655 and died on 15 March 1697 at Haverhill, Essex, Massachusetts. His son Thomas was born on 30 Jan 1692 and died on 15 Mar 1697 and his daughter Mehitable was born on 19 Jun 1696 and died on 15 Mar 1697. That woman and those two children were killed by Native Americans during a raid. The historical commission wrote in 1985 "By 1675 Haverhill's population included about 300 white inhabitants plus 25 negro slaves. This population grew slowly between 1676 and 1708, during which the area suffered severely from numerous Indian attacks. Over 60 Haverhill residents were killed in this period, particularly in 1697, the worst year for attacks."

Well, Vonnegut wrote about war that "No nation has ever had a shortage of young men eager to experiment with homicide providing no very awful penalties are attached." But it's hard to know what happened unless you were there. Presumably it was a chaotic scene with people running and fighting for their lives. Maybe you capture a woman and she, having already seen her father/husband/child blown to pieces by a Hotchkiss gun, tries to claw your eyes out, or maybe you think she will bash your skull with a rock or put a knife between your ribs as soon as your back is turned, and in the meantime you never know when a more dangerous male could jump up from a ravine or from the inside of a tent or behind a large rock.

And maybe another thing is true too. That soldiers are not made up of scholars and gentleman, not the best of society, but are often young, crude, cruel, and ignorant and believing in the demonisation of the enemy, particularly an enemy of a different race. Either way, a soldier generally does not hold their fire in a battle and take a chance of getting killed instead of surviving. White people do not mourn the Little Bighorn every anniversary, although 268 were killd there and 99.94% of us have never been aware of the attacks at Haverhill.

I am not sure what Black Elk means by "a people's dream". Was it this? "... the new land would be covered with sweet grass and running water and trees. Great herds of buffalo and wild horses would come back. The Indians who danced the Ghost Dance would be taken up in the air and suspended there while a wave of new earth was passing and then they would be set down among the ghosts of their ancestors on the new earth ..." Dee Brown p. 434

Some people might not consider that to be so beautiful, particularly if they are white. Because the parts that I snipped out say "the earth would be covered with new soil which would bury all the white men" and "on the new earth where only Indians would live."

So THAT dream seems to include a big mixture of genocide and racism.

Black Elk may have had a different dream, but Bigfoot's group consisted of many Ghost Dancers.

[mikekohr]

54. Red Cloud spoke best of those that participated in the Ghost Dance

-and keep in mind the context of 1890, their lands stolen, the buffalo nearly exterminated, the Lakota found themselves slowly starving to death due to rampant theft of promised provisions by corrupt traders-

Red Cloud, "We were so hungry for life, that the white man thought we wanted his."

The dangers of the Ghost Dance were wildly exaggerated by "stringers," out of state reporters paid by the line, and local merchants hoping to capitalize on the financial bonanza that a deployment of troops would provide.

General William T. Sherman, who is credited with saying, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian," and not what one would describe as an "Indian Lover," summed this sorry state of affairs best when he described an Indian reservation as, "A parcel of land inhabited by Indians and surrounded by thieves."

The killing of women and children and the chasing down and hunting of them was widely reported and written about by both Lakota and White participants, observers and and survivors of the butchery. One reporter on the scene THOMAS HENRY TIBBLES: was among the people that recorded the slaughter of 405 Lakota People at Canke Opi Wakpala, the creek called Wounded Knee, on December 29th, 1890. His words, his witness, stand along-side the testimony of the survivors of the slaughter, so that we may never forget.
http://www.brotherhooddays.com/forgottenheroes.html

I am sorry you lost an ancestor in the wars of conquest of this land. But we should not lose sight of the fact that every atrocity committed by Native People was in defense of their land, their home, and their very existence. Every atrocity committed by Non-Indians against Native People was committed in the act of aggression and dispossession.

American history is longer, larger, more various, more beautiful, and more terrible than anyone has ever said about it." James Baldwin-

"There's a destructive urge in people, the urge to rage, murder, and kill," but, "I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

"Memory says, "I did that." Pride replies, "I could not have done that." Eventually, memory yields.
-Friedrich Nietzsche-

"What seems to matter most is the great silence, the denial of any holocaust."
Carter Revard -Osage-

"The danger lies in forgetting."
Eli Wiesel

"The truth shall make you free."
John 8:32


http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html

[hfojvt]

57. that's pretty sad rationalization

It is okay for Native Americans to kill women and infants because somehow by raiding Haverhill they were defending their home and their very existence. Actually many fewer of them would have likely been killed if they had just moved into Haverhill and found jobs.

In fact, many of the atrocities committed by non-natives were for the purpose of preventing their wives and children from being killed by natives.

When the path of war is chosen, there are likely to be atrocities on both sides. Better to take the road less travelled by.

[dflprincess]

62. Fewer whites would have been killed if they'd just accepted the Native American way of living

and asked to be adopted into the tribes they lived near rather than just trying to force the Indians off their lands.

And, really, doesn't one have to question why a man would move his wife and children into an area where they might be killed? Not a very caring or concerned guy in my opinion. For that matter, I don't think the attack at Sand Creek was made in the name of protecting white women and children - for that matter the Battle at Little Bighorn only happened because Custer ignored what the scouts told him and thought he was attacking a small village made up largely of women and elderly people.

It was the Europeans who chose the path of war and one way or the other they continued to wage that war against native cultures well into the 20th century.

[hfojvt]

70. right because he was the only one living in Haverhill

Unfortunately the Native American way of living really did not produce enough food for the future population of America.

According to Chivington "To the end of his life, Chivington maintained that Sand Creek had been a successful operation. He argued that his expedition had been in response to a series of murderous raids on white people;"

Of course even at the time, even the white people were not buying his excuses.

Europeans chose the path of expansion, but from a population standpoint they did not have that much choice, and when war was engaged, they answered with force. Of course, when there is a tit for tat that extends almost endlessly, it is hard to tell which tit came first. The Sand Creek massacre ultimately ended up costing far more white lives because of the vengeance that it lead to. However, that vengeance leads to further vengeance. But ultimately, there is not just one side which is killing women and children.

[apocalypsehow]

58. Phil Sheridan was the one that said "the only good ones I've seen are dead" (thus the saying you

quote above), not William Tecumseh Sherman.

[mikekohr]

82. Thanks for the correction, it was Sheridan and here is a link to the good general

GENERAL PHILLIP SHERIDAN:
Attributed with saying, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." (The actual quote is, "The only good Indian I ever saw was dead.")
When legislation was proposed in Texas to protect the buffalo herds Sheridan rushed to Austin to protest. He said, " The buffalo hunters have done more in two years to settle the vexed Indian problem than the entire U.S. Army has done in ten years.... Send them powder and lead if you will but for the sake of peace let them kill, skin, and sell until the buffalo are exterminated." 55).

Ironically in later years General Sheridan had this to say, "We took away their country and their means of support, and it was for this and against this they made war. Could anyone expect less?" 1).
http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GENERAL PHILLIP SHERIDAN:


here is the Sherman Quote I alluded to:
GENERAL WILLIAM T. SHERMAN
In a telegram to President U.S. Grant, "First kill off the buffalo, then kill off the Indian. We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, men, women, and children."

Ever the ruthless soldier and never one that could be mistaken as an "Indian lover," Sherman, never-the-less, was also quoted in his astute observation when he described a reservation as, "...a parcel of land inhabited by Indians and surrounded by thieves."

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GENERAL WILLIAM T. SHERMAN:

and yes H20Man, I agree with your thoughts precisely. Keep punching and God Bless America.

[H2O Man]

65. Unreal.

Just fucking pathetic.

[Webster Green]

11. Captured: North American Indian Photographs by Edward Curtis

Great pics here! Someone just sent me the link today.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2010/11/15/north-american-indian-photographs-by-edward-curtis/2551

[uppityperson]

12. k&r

[geardaddy]

13. K&R n/t

[HEyHEY]

15. The fact it's still okay to call them "Indians" in the USA boggles my mind

[niyad]

20. amazing, isn't it?

[mikekohr]

38. Many Native People refer to themselves as Indian

often pronounced as "Indin." The most correct term to refer to a Native person is to refer to their tribal affiliation (ex Sitting Bull was Hunkpapa Lakota, Hunkpapa being the band, Lakota the greater tribal group). But given the over 550 different and distinct tribal groups that becomes difficult in practice, but taking the time and expending the effort to ask and educate yourself about a person's identity is a good way to demonstrate respect.

[HEyHEY]

16. Graphic, isn't this lovely

US army burying the dead Pol Pot style.

The shame of how natives are treated goes on to this day, and no one cares. It's fucking disgusting.

[niyad]

18. there are a lot of people who care. sadly, they aren't the ones in power.

this area has the blood-stained history of the sand creek massacre.

I do some work with one nation walking, and the situation on the reservations is beyond heartbreaking.

[HEyHEY]

23. I used to live near one of the worst reserves in Canada

Third world conditions right under our noses, and the non-natives just mocked them.

[niyad]

28. the conditions are appalling, and shameful.

the only tribes that are doing at all well are the ones who have casinos (and I do remember the screaming about that)

[pipi_k]

46. Caughnawaga, by any chance? n/t

[HEyHEY]

71. Brocket

[Maru Kitteh]

17. K&R

[Omaha Steve]

19. I didn't see you posted about this before I did

K&R!

[niyad]

22. this is an important topic, so more than one post on it is great.

I k and r'd yours, as well.

[laylah]

21. Dear, dear niyad...

It is so wonderful to "see" you! Thank you for posting such an important message. :loveya:

Thinking of you,
Jenn

[Zanzobar]

24. Are you Lakota?

[niyad]

25. what does that have to do with anything?

[Zanzobar]

26. I was just wondering.

DO you know enough to say what the Lakota deserve?

[niyad]

27. actually, yes, I do. by the way, you did notice, I trust, that the header on this post is from the

article I posted?

[Zanzobar]

29. I really don't mean to attack you.

How do you know what the Lakota deserve?

[niyad]

30. once again, I will point out that that is the title of the article. do, please, try reading it/

answer me this--exactly what is your problem with that article?

[Zanzobar]

31. You said, "Yes, I do".

I won't comment further.

I am not of Lakota Souix or any other Native American tribe. I don't know what they deserve.

It's interesting what emotion can elicit.

[niyad]

32. promise? because this has gotten tiresome

[laylah]

41. Knowledge is power...

just sayin'.

Jenn

[H2O Man]

66. It's not an attack.

You're just making a fool of yourself.

[Zanzobar]

67. If you say so

But post 56 is pretty good.

[H2O Man]

68. I did.

You continue to.

[Zanzobar]

69. Like I said, if you say so.

[underseasurveyor]

35. Are you implying that the Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, do not deserve,

at the very least, an apology?

Because believe me that would be just the start of what they are owed.

[Zanzobar]

36. No, that's not what I'm implying.

I'm implying that what they are owed cannot be repaid, and no apology can be made by the folks who butchered and drove them into oblivion.

The man in the moon may just as well apologize.

[mikekohr]

42. The Dead Deserve The Telling Of The Truth

There are those that wish to deny, to rationaize, what has happened. But in telling the story we can start the journey of reconciliation and empbrace the words of Lakota spiritual leader Eli Tail, "What has happened has happened and can not be changed. We must find a way to move forward, together."

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html

[Raschel]

44. Addressing the wrongs committed and an apology from the US government on this date would

an historical acknowledgement. Quite different than an apology from the man in the moon.

[Zanzobar]

48. The wrongs cannot be addressed.

Even if they could be, they would not be.

Any apology will be hollow.

[Wednesdays]

50. Um, yeah.

So, let's do nothing. Since that would be so much better.

[Zanzobar]

52. That is what will be accomplished.

[hfojvt]

56. Did you see my post?

The US Government actually has apologized. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE5DA...

"The House, on a voice vote, gave final Congressional approval Thursday to a resolution expressing "deep regret" for the event that marked the end of the Indian wars. The Senate approved the measure last week." Oct 28, 1990

[Zanzobar]

64. And there ya go.

Mission Accomplished: Nothing.

Whenever the government gets around to apologizing for anything, you know its collective heart is cold. It's done solely as a political matter.

Maybe if they apologize again it will make a difference.

[niyad]

33. . . . .

[cilla4progress]

34. big BIG knr

[xchrom]

37. recommend

[marmar]

39. K&R

nt

[newtothegame]

43. Can we track down any of the soldiers or victims and have them meet for a healing dialouge? nt

[pipi_k]

45. No...

They deserve more than a fucking apology.

But, like someone else said, they'll probably never get it...let alone a simple "We're sorry".


and lest we forget....there was also the massacre at Sand Creek 146 years ago last month, along with other sickening incidents.

[newtothegame]

47. Whichever soldier did the most killing should apologize on behalf of everyone.

Are any of them still around?

[pipi_k]

51. Never mind the soldiers...

how about an acknowledgment from the goddamned government for the wrongs done...


Granted, it's not going to bring any of them back or expiate the pain, but an acknowledgment of wrongs might go a long way toward helping these people to feel their ancestors (and they) are seen as human beings.

[rhett o rick]

53. If you are looking for acknowledgment from the government for wrong doing, the list is long. nm

[malaise]

63. Don't hold your breath

Don't you know Obama is about to return Manhattan to the natives? :sarcasm:

[Number23]

55. K&R I wish we had more NA DUers to respond to articles like this

[niyad]

61. as do I. is russel means by any chance a DU member?

[MellowDem]

72. Lots of peoples deserve apologies...

What they need is another matter.

[niyad]

73. and what do you think is needed in this case?

[Tsiyu]

74. They deserve Paha Sapa

When dreams come true...

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/7/sixgrandfathers.php

K&R


And one other thing...people never say "So what, look at what others did?" except at these times.

If I say, "the Iraqis deserve an apology," who here would say, "But look what Saddam Hussein did?" Or in the case of the other various, non-Lakota tribes, "But look what Osama Bin Laden did to us?"


Only when we discuss ruthless acts against people like the Lakota do ppsters bring up other Indian people and the things they did as some sort of justification for the very worst of atrocities.

Wonder why?


Edit to add link

Edit again to fix link

[niyad]

75. thank you for sharing that link, I now have it bookmarked

[Tsiyu]

79. thank you for this thread

the article is just an overview, but is a good place to start learning about the issue

[H2O Man]

76. Exactly.

Elsewhere on this thread, someone posted a comment -- which may even be true -- about something from the 1600s. The victims were among the English people stealing land & killing Algonquins. This has absolutely nothing to do with US policy per the Lakota/Sioux.

It is no different than confusing the French with the Germans. Ignorance leads to the irrational thought processes that justify man's inhumanity to man.

[Tsiyu]

81. That post was the one finally

pushing me to ask why.

I think I understand now why the a certain person might condone atrocities; honesty about motive and bias is good in that sense.


But to hear that excuse again is like hearing a Bush supporter go on about how Saddam caused 911.

The ignorance is galling in either case.

Gotta go hang with guests...:P




Happy New Year to you and yours if'n we don't meet til next year! :party: :toast:

[defendandprotect]

77. Late K/R