Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Walker preparing financial martial law in WI via "Local Government Flexibility Toolkit" - website:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:24 PM
Original message
Walker preparing financial martial law in WI via "Local Government Flexibility Toolkit" - website:
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 05:26 PM by highplainsdem
They already have a website up to push this, especially for Milwaukee.

I read about this on Ed Garvey's website

http://www.fightingbob.com/weblog.cfm?postID=3851

which links to the MakeItYourMilwaukee.com website

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/

The page for "the initiative" there

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/the-initiative/

links to this page:

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/the-initiative/create-a-legislative-toolkit-for-true-long-term-change/

Ensure that local governments have the necessary resources and tools to balance budgets, protect taxpayers and maintain fiscal health.

* Develop a statewide fiscal stress test through the State Department of Revenue to help local governments maintain fiscal health.

* Provide local governments with greater flexibility by ensuring that as labor contracts are crafted, they account for a broader range of considerations, including the fiscal challenges facing municipalities and counties.

* Consolidate Milwaukee County’s health care and pension plans into the state’s plans. Isolate the existing Milwaukee County legacy pension costs in a “lockbox” separate from the state’s plan.

-snip-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Initiative 3 on that site includes the GOP yard sale - selling or leasing the county's assets:
http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/the-initiative/spin-off-and-fund-transit-parks-and-culture/

Streamline Milwaukee County government to its primary functions of record-keeping, road maintenance, elections, courts, social services and public safety.

-snip-

Develop a master plan for County assets. Use the proceeds from the sale or lease of any county assets to pay down pension or other health care liabilities or general obligation debt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Link to an earlier topic about conservatives wanting to have a "yard sale" of government property:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x514948

At the time I posted that I wasn't aware of what ALEC was doing and hadn't seen its "State Budget Reform Toolkit"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x658572

which includes in its table of contents, under "Tools to Control Costs and Improve Government Efficiency," this recommendation:

L. Create a Statewide Real Property Inventory and Search the Balance Sheet for Asset Sale and Lease Opportunities

The FAQ page on the MakeItYourMilwaukee.com website -- http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/FAQ/ -- refers to plans for a complete inventory of the county's property, followed by the sale or long-term lease of some properties.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ed Suspicious Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. More tools brought to you
By the Wisconsin's biggest tool.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Following reform guidelines from the American Legislative Exchange Council.
The reply I just posted about selling off county assets is straight from the ALEC "toolkit" for government "reform."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Yes, he is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Really... is about all that comes to my mind...
"The secret plan is being prepared by the state's largest law firm, Foley & Lardner, for the Greater Milwaukee Committee, the Bradley Foundation, the governor, and key legislators. There is speculation that Alberta Darling is the Walker point person on this nutty scheme, but no need to speculate: call Senator Darling's office and ask!"

This drastic measure will be "fast-tracked" by the Walkerites unless we slow down the train--again! Clearly Walker wants it passed before any recall elections are held. We must get involved in stopping this absurd attack on democracy and local government.


The largest law firm in Milwaukee is drafting this financial Plan.... Really....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Alberta Darling is one of the senators facing recall. She's an ALEC member.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. that sounds Double Plus Good
damn Orwell for giving these numb nuts too many ideas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. This does sound like something out of a dystopian novel.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Initiative 2 has the attack on local public workers' pensions:
http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/the-initiative/create-a-new-balance-sheet-for-the-county

Improve transparency and accountability by reforming the County’s governance and benefit structure

-snip-

Develop and implement pension savings strategies to complement statewide legislation including implementing a defined contribution plan for new employees, requiring an employee contribution, reducing the multiplier and/or raising the retirement age for existing employees.

Bring retiree health care expenditures in line with national and state standards, including crafting health care options that incentivize both active and retired employees to select plans that will reduce the county's health care costs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is already in affect..... Anyone know how to stop this...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. No, this isn't already in effect. The law affecting state workers was passed. This new legislation
affecting governments at the local level -- giving the state control -- hasn't even been introduced in the WI state legislature yet, according to that blog:

http://www.fightingbob.com/weblog.cfm?postID=3851

But they are going to introduce it, and the website I've been quoting in replies here

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/

has been set up to sell this idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. Is this in the State's Constitution?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Their site language suggests they'll say counties are an arm of state government. And if Prosser is
still on the state Supreme Court...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. I would think that counties would be off limit on this as it is covered in Constitution.
While municipalities doesn't have anything about elections of elected officials. If the state legislature wanted to it could take all rights away from municipalities and have them delegated all to county government. My take.

Milwaukee is a different animal. Even though it is a city it appears to operate more as a county government entity instead of city.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. I think some good layers better take a look at this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Alberta Darling's leading this, so... how's the recall sig collection going???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. They need 20,000 more signatures by May 2. Link:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Actually, no. That's the total needed, not the difference between what has been collected....
...and the necessary total.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thanks for explaining! I'm glad to hear I'd misread that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. It's Being Kept Secret
I've been helping in gathering signatures and the organizers have made sure to gather at least 50,000 signatures to assure there's more than enough to knock down any challenge. They don't want to tip their hands until they show up with the petitions and file for the recall starting the clock on an election. Since its such a short time window you don't want the Kochroaches getting any head start on the ground. There are many who are working hard to make this recall happen and then to give Darling the boot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Thanks for the reply. We're working hard to get enough to recall Grothman too, but...
...it's awful red around here. But we're trying.


Thanks for your activism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. You Definitely Have A Tall Order...
I'd love to see Grothman's smirk wiped from his gnarly face...as well as the Fitzgeralds. But the eye on the prize...enough realls to flip the Senate and then towards Wanker's recall.

I was in and around Shorewood...and many of the people who signed admitted they stayed home last fall and didn't think things would get this bad. We had a fair number of those who voted for Walker who felt he betrayed them by being such an asshat. Overall, I'm confident there's not just the signatures for the recall but the votes to send Darling back to private life.

Keep up the hard work...I wish you well in a tough area. I'm just south of the border and ready to jump back in if and when needed.

Cheers...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iwishiwas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
54. Thanks for the work you do on this issue,
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Right from the Koch brothers' playbook.
Already done here by our new teabag governor, Snyder.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. And the American Legislative Exchange Council "toolkit":
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 05:57 PM by highplainsdem
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x591230

Reply 111 there.

Direct link to the topic about that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x658572

The goals in the initiatives on that website of slashing pensions and selling off government assets are ALEC's goals taken to the local level. There are a lot of ALEC members in the WI state legislature, and they've already passed a number of bills that are clearly following ALEC's model legislation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. The FAQ page on that website refers to Michigan as an example of the "fiscal stress test":
http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/FAQ/

Click the "Expand" link under "Statewide Local Government Flexibility Toolkit" and you get this:

What is a Fiscal Stress Test? How will it help improve the County’s situation?

Fiscal stress test systems have been created over the past several decades to assess and monitor the conditions of local government. An example can be seen in Michigan where a set of 9 indicators is used to determine the fiscal health of cities and townships. If one or more conditions indicative of a local government financial problem exist, the State Treasurer conducts a preliminary review. If a serious financial problem exists, the Governor must appoint a review team to report on the situation and if necessary an emergency financial manager steps in.

A fiscal stress test would apply to all local governments throughout the state. A regular review and ‘stress test’ would greatly benefit all local governments, including Milwaukee County. Regular review would lead to the potential to analyze and fix potential fiscal crises before they occur and would provide local governments with the guidance and tools necessary to make wise financial decisions.


Why is providing municipalities with flexibility during labor contracts so important?

There is a great need to ensure that the fiscal challenges facing local governments are adequately considered during labor negotiations. These negotiations need to account for a broader range of considerations in order for local governments to maintain fiscal health and stability.


These sound really far removed from my experiences with the County. How would these legislative tools impact me?

These tools would allow the County to address its current financial crisis by providing the tools necessary to implement fiscal reform. Without these legislative tools in place, the County will likely find it increasingly difficult to make any headway in fiscal reform. Instead, services are likely to be severely cut, taxes may increase substantially, or some combination of the two will occur.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. That FAQ page also has more on the plans to reduce health care benefits & sell county property.
Click the Expand link under "Create a new blueprint for County governance" for what it says about health care benefits, and the same link under "Create a new blueprint for the delivery of County services" for what it says about selling off county assets. That section also tells readers that counties "are actually an arm of the state" -- so I guess that's supposed to assure readers that this isn't the power grab it really is.

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/FAQ/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. But we do have this to look forward to...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Yes. Walker has to be recalled next year. But he can do a lot of damage in the meantime.
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 06:44 PM by highplainsdem
And this new legislation they're planning will let them in effect loot city and county governments, selling valuable assets to their cronies at bargain prices.

This is equivalent to the plans to sell those state-owned power plants, but extended potentially to every county and city in Michigan, and any property owned by those local governments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is the only tool they know how to use
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. True.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. We are at war people.
Do we let them march us to our doom or do we fight back?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, we are. We have to fight this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. HOw? I think this is serious. They need to be hauled into confinement by the public.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. It's possible enough negative publicity will keep this from passing. There have been plenty of
reports that they don't dare try to pass the union-busting bill again because they wouldn't be able to get enough votes for it (which is why it's so important to them that Prosser stay on the WI Supreme Court, to stop the legal challenge to that illegally-passed legislation).

Their astroturf site was obviously set up as a way to promote this plan, but with the demonstrations and negative publicity their union-busting got, starting about the same time the site was created in mid-February, they apparently decided to try to keep this quiet. I'm so glad Garvey blogged about it and talked about it during that radio interview.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. They don't care what the public thinks. Not dealing with "rational" people
we are dealing with human formed bodies that represent the Corporate-hood. There is NO caring or fear or anything. Period. The Dems and others have to stop acting as if we are somehow going to "work" with these people. They don't work with anyone other than themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. That promotional site also has forms for signing a petition and "sharing your story" -- both forms
give them permission to use your name on the website, in the media and in any advocacy materials.

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/take-action/share-your-story/

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/take-action/add-your-name-to-our-supporter-list/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. The "County 101" page emphasizes that counties are supposedly just "an arm of state government."
http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/county-101/

As I posted above, this is also emphasized on their FAQ page, and is apparently meant as a response to the legitimate complaint that this is a power grab by the state government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. That promotional site actually links to the CBS article on "financial martial law" in MI
as if they actually thought that was a PLUS:

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/2011/03/michigan-bill-would-impose-financial-martial-law/

The main page of the site links to that page.

This is the CBS story -- http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20042299-503544.html#addcomm -- with lots of comments about how harmful these laws are, including one from a resident of Benton Harbor, MI, which already had an Emergency Financial Manager. According to that comment, the public beach had been taken over by a private golf course.

I'm stunned that the proponents of this "reform" in Wisconsin thought linking to that story would help them sell the legislation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. The About page claims this is "a broad-based coalition of local businesses, community organizations
and individuals" but none are identified. There's a Facebook page -- http://www.facebook.com/mymke -- which is supposedly liked by 64 people at the moment, but the wall shows only a couple of comments and a few Likes. Both the site and Facebook page were apparently launched in mid-February, when state senator Alberta Darling issued this statement:

http://makeityourmilwaukee.com/2011/02/sen-alberta-darling-issues-statement-on-my-milwaukee-county-initiative/

Sen. Darling, as explained above, is a member of ALEC.

Anyway, this looks like another of those astroturf campaigns conservatives love, an attempt to make it look like there's real grassroots support for a power grab by GOP politicians at the state level.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
31. It's past time to get over the whole work within the system thing
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 01:26 AM by MedleyMisty
Recalls take too long.

Strike. Strike hard and strike fast. Shut the economy down.

I recommend pulling from the Arabs. The people demand the removal of the regime.

Don't recall Walker in a year. Force him to resign now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
32. This guy is a fucking TYRANT.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. This is definitely an authoritarian plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
36. Another blog post about this from Ed Garvey at FightingBob.com:
http://www.fightingbob.com/weblog.cfm?postID=3852

He hopes there will be more interest soon in this radical and harmful plan for financial martial law in Wisconsin. So far only one paper has asked him about it.

So his new blog post is entitled "While You Sleep":

-snip-

While we sleep, the Public Policy Forum, a Bradley Foundation supported group was putting out fancy, color-coded charts asking whether Milwaukee County Government Should stay or go? Who authorized them to ask?

It appears that Walker-Koch-Sykes want the County government to sell off land, eliminate services, sell Mitchell Airport...and so it goes.

All of this fits a pattern seen in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, New Jersey. Claim we are broke and then lay out a plan to save us from bankruptcy, followed by taking over local governments, busting unions, and declaring financial martial law!

And the once-great Milwaukee Journal and the once- interesting Milwaukee Sentinel, slumber without pills. Paul Revere--where are you?

-snip-

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Must be stopped before sales otherwise it will be impossible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. I agree. It would be very hard to get that property back. They'll do this at the national level,
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 08:32 PM by highplainsdem
too, the next time they control both houses of Congress and the White House (so we have to hope that never happens again). They're already talking about it. I linked in another reply here (reply 27, in response to the first reply here) to an earlier topic about conservatives talking months ago about wanting to have a "national yard sale" to sell off parks, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. They are trying to do it all over. The costs of remedying and Court cases would be prohibitive. It
must stop now. I am not kidding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hector Solon Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
38. THANKS... the links in here have led to more breakthroughs - MI EFM and WI effort linked. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. You're welcome! Thanks for all the research you've been doing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
40. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. weekend kick for this outstanding thread nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
prairierose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
53. And another kick....
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 16th 2024, 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC