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When I was in college, I got three chapters into reading Mein Kampf to try to understand

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Suji to Seoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:43 AM
Original message
When I was in college, I got three chapters into reading Mein Kampf to try to understand
Hitler. I own a copy of the book (I am a historian, so I consider it a book of extreme historical importance).

The book is the ravings of a lunatic, full of non-sequitirs and paranoid delusional of grandeur. It was one of the hardest three chapters I read, even if you do not measure into the equation that I am Jewish.

I also tried reading Atlas Shrugged. I got six pages into it and never attempted to read it again.

Am I the only one who thinks this is strange?

Ex-Pat in the PRC
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. I read all of Mein Kampf and I didn't get it either
I've read threads on DU that had more thought and narrative. :shrug:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. I got ten pps into Atlas Shrugged and hated it and never tried it again.
Maybe ten. :hi:
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I got 2 paragraphs in the Atlas Shrugged plot section on Wiki and got bored
I like books that make me think but I would like to think they are books that would make me smarter
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. I'm used to slogging through stuff that seems boring
as all my work at school was in lit. But this lady was just hateful. Life is too short to spend time with someone like her.

lol
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. I don't find this strange at all.
Those books are poorly written. Normal people find the ideas in those books hard to comprehend. You are probably just a normal, healthy person.

I did read Atlas Shrugged in high school. I committed to read it for a book report. By the time I had read a little bit of the book, it was too late to choose something else, and the teacher had already approved my selection.

I have discovered that quite a few high school kids like Ayn Rand. Often, as they mature, they wonder what they could have been thinking.
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. I haven't read Mein Kempf but I did read Atlas Shrugged while in high school. The opening line of
the book, as I recall, is, Who is John Galt? At the time I noticed a few bumper stickers with the same question and thus my interest was piqued.

My recollection is that the book was a struggle to wade through but I did and must admit that the book held a certain allure. The hard working entrepreneur fighting the bureaucracy with the objective to bring a superior product to the market, etc. It took awhile but I came to the realization that the message of the book is greed and selfishness are virtues that only the select few are qualified to possess.

In 2007 while in a nation wide chain bookstore there was a larger than life poster of Atlas Shrugged hanging on the far wall. I couldn't help but ask the sales person if she had read the book as I pointed to the poster. She said she hadn't and I allowed as how I could save her the time and she shouldn't bother because the book elevated greed and selfishness to the level of virtue. She seemed somewhat stunned by my comment and did not reply.

Now there's a movie dramatizing this terrible book.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. And the movie is doing *so* well ...
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 10:55 AM by eppur_se_muova
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. More generally, quite a lot of immature people like Ayn Rand.
Some mature after high school, others are natural Republicans.
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. A message of rebellion, self-empowerment, and personal superiority in the face of mediocrity...
Yeah, teenagers and college kids eat that kind of pablum right up, be it punk, hippie, rock, beatnik, or whatever is currently fashionable to claim their stake on their world, and feel "special".... just like everybody else who thinks they're special.

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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. You got further into Mein Kampf than I did.
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 01:17 AM by backscatter712
And you came to the same conclusion I did - Mein Kampf is not just a horrifically evil book, but it's a horrifically badly written book. There's not very much structure to the book, it's little more than Hitler's stream-of-consciousness rants he dictated to one of his flunkies to give him something to do while chilling in prison after the Munich Putsch. There were translation notes stating that the original German was so grammatically bad that the translators had a hard time with it, and some of the sentences made absolutely no sense.

In other words, Hitler was like Sarah Palin, only male and with the funny mustache.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. I haven't read Mein Kampf but I know a hell of a lot about 19th century whaling.
I got through Moby Dick by listening to the audiobook version.

(I know the thread is about extreme philosophy books and not difficult novels but I'm kind of proud I got all the way through Moby Dick so I'm mumbling about it here.)
(I also got through Atlas Shrugged with the audiobook version. It's kind of a cartoon version of the world where everyone acts the way the writer wants them to. Nothing like real life.)
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. I have never tried to read Mein Kampf, but...
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 01:29 AM by MilesColtrane
I did download the Unabomber Manifesto and had a go at it.

I just don't see how criminal profilers and investigators keep their sanity.

It seems that frequently there is no lesson to be learned from reading the thoughts of a murderer other than, 'this guy is fucking crazy'.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not strange I think.
I read "chariot of the gods". It was amazing such a poorly written book with so many incoherent rants that never add up to anything is consider by some people some brilliant break through in research that require multiple history channel 1 hr specials. Seems like so many foundation books are absolute piles of crap literature.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. Well, I can tell by you description of Mein Kampf that you tried to read the same book I did
It's one of those books I attempted in high school. I found that as a friend of mind said, one thought simply doesn't lead to the next.

As a historical phenomenon, it does little good to try to dissect Nazism rationally. It only leaves one wondering who could have taken Hitler seriously. I recommend the late Alan Bullock's biography of Hitler above all others. It was the one source I have read that, rather than give a summation of Hitler's arguments in Mein Kampf, simply tries to show how the presentation of such nonsense managed to appeal to masses of frustrated Germans and disarm Hitler's contemporary critics.

The appeal of Ayn Rand to high school students and even lower division college undergrads is understandable. After all, a second-year student is called a sophomore, meaning his is at once wise and foolish; having the qualities of a sophomore makes one sophomoric. A philosophy, for want of a better word, that neatly packages the world into a few simple maxims, abuses Aristotle's law of identity in order to pretend that begging a question is really the expression of profound insight and which features a utopian vision of a bright and happy future, is sure to have a following of sophomoric individuals.

I haven't read Atlas Shrugged, but in high school I did read some of Ayn Rand's essays in volumes with titles like Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and The Virtue of Selfishness. Somebody once said you can argue in a circle as long as the circle is big enough. For me, even at the age of sixteen, it was too easy to grasp the whole of Ayn Rand's circle. Objectivism is is very logically consistent given its postulates. If one admits nothing but those postulates, it is difficult to see why the meltdown of 2008 ever happened. It did, and therefore objectivism must be flawed. Ms. Rand's postulates never seemed to me to be a complete picture of the world. They were always to simple to paint an accurate picture of that complex thing that is a human being. Consequently, I came to understand objectivism as a hollow and shallow strain of utopian thought.

I once spent a week in Hawaii. I think that is as close as I will ever come to seeing utopia.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. Nazism succeeded for two reason:
1. The German people were reeling from their defeat in World War I, the utter collapse of their economy, and the postwar cultural changes, such as the ones hinted at in Cabaret. They were therefore susceptible to an emotional, "patriotic" appeal and scapegoating of their most visible minority group. Furthermore, the vast majority of Germans in those days had only a basic elementary education (the equivalent of 8th grade) and had gone to work at age 14, so despite the sophistication of the elites and the prestige of Germany's scientists and artists, the average person had pretty limited knowledge. To top it off, the country had never experienced democracy.

You know, Glenn Beck doesn't make sense, either, but he gains fans among people who are anxious and confused about the state of the world but not too bright.

2. Once the Nazis were in political power, they completely controlled all the mass media, which in those days amounted to newspapers, radio, and movies. They were so good at this that my relatives in East Prussia (now divided between Russia and Poland) didn't know that Germany was losing the war till they saw the refugees fleeing through their town in advance of the Red Army.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Gosh, those conditions sure do sound familiar, don't they?
No wonder people like Beck, Palin, and Bachmann have so many fans.
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johnnypneumatic Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. you can say the same about the bible
plus many parts of the bible should be x-rated, yet they let children read it
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
40. Phooey
This atheist thinks the bible can be mighty fine reading. Just read it like a book, not doctrine.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. the Bible is poorly written trash.
Little more than the apelike rantings of cavepeople. If it weren't an official religious text, people would be embarrassed to admit they had read it.
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. KJV is beautiful. Don't let your hate muddle your vision.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. yeah, you tell yourself it's beautiful.
Its boring crap. Even Joseph Smith could forge a text that looked like the KJV, and was just as crappy.

Don't let your religion blind yourself to literary criticism.
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. I'm an atheist.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #42
52. the bible is boring and in many places extremely repetitive
i am not sure i would call it trash, but i have never understood why its hailed as a literary wonder.

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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Extremely boring.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Oh come on, I tried reading that shitty book in jail...
what a joke..

I couldn't even make it past "genesis" :rofl:


018: And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.
019: And these are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac:
020: And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.
021: And Isaac entreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
022: And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to inquire of the LORD.
023: And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
024: And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
025: And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
026: And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
027: And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
028: And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.
029: And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
030: And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
031: And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
59. We can't really determine that now, because
The Bible has been poorly understood and translated since the time it was written.

The original text might have been better than the one we have now.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. A lot of Germans at the time didn't get it either. They bought the book
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 06:03 AM by no_hypocrisy
to be displayed on their coffee tables to show their support for Hitler (or to check suspicion by their neighbors that they weren't).

It simply wasn't read.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. They STILL don't.
It's forbidden fruit here so a number of friends read it as soon as they were old enough to get their hands on it. They ALSO describe it as an incoherent screed.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
58. That's almost too bad, actually.
I think it shouldn't be "forbidden," as you call it. The more we understand Hitler (and not turn him into some comic book villain), the less chance of another Hitler coming into power.
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Wounded Bear Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
51. Kind of like Coulter's missives....
:)

I actually read a couple of her books. I didn't BUY them, but I read them.

Pretty much what I expected.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. I got through reading Hitler and Marx and several others
It was boring but I managed to read them all the way through.
Rand on the other hand was a cure for insomnia.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. At least Marx's writing make sense
in that even if you don't agree with them you can understand them and see how he made the conclusions he did.. Hitler's on the other hand, is the ranting of madmen with no attempt at actual analysis of society, just his stream of consciousness with no real form to it.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
55. Wait. You put Hitler and Marx in the same category? WTF...
Ridiculous.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. I read Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead
The Fountainhead was readable, if not great. Atlas Shrugged was OK as a story, except for the long speech about Ayn's "philosophy."

Reading her nonfiction gives one a more succinct view of her "philosophy."

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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. I felt the same way about Nausea.
Only I was in college and I was nauseous.
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
19. I've read it both in English and the original. Don't try to make much sense out of it....
The best you can do is to develop a sense of his psychological make-up.
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. Read the 1939 academic translation from the UK
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 10:59 AM by nomb
Lot's of arcane German history in that "book", it cannot be read without an in depth understanding of German history, which any German of that time carried innately. It was not considered unintelligible, nor the ravings of a madman in it's time on either side of the War.

And yes it is very hard to read, but mostly because of the weight of the millions of souls that it carries with it.
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #20
47. blank
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 11:13 AM by nomb
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Prof Lester Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. Read it in college too
Since I was learning my trade back then, and besides I was a compulsive autodidact.. read everything. BUT that damn Hitler book is the only book I ever had stolen from me. Some mental case stole it at a party one night. As was said earlier, some books attract certain head cases. I've found that people who dig Hitler also tend to like Ayn Rant and the Marquis de Sade, etc. Also Nietzsche and similar raving kooks. Supermen? Ha ha ha ha ha ha!:rofl:
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Nietzsche was anything but a "raving kook"
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 11:12 AM by nomb
Your casual dismissal of Nietzsche, who has more influence today than ever before in history, is a bit odd.

It's one thing to oppose an idea, like Rand's or the unrelated Nietzsche - quite another to dismiss them.

One need's to understand these especially powerful idea's. They will, and DO, rock the world when thinking people stick their head and the sand and dismiss them as inconsequential ravings.
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Prof Lester Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Casual dismissal?
Hmm. I've been blessed to have a long life during which I have been, among other things, a student of philosophy. I understand Nietzsche's ideas perfectly well. Well enough to have done some substantial writing on the subject. As a psychologist, however, I tell you that in my opinion he was indeed rather a raving kook.. especially when the syphilis bacteria was eating away at his brain. Not a single idea of his is even remotely capable of being empirically tested. Wittgenstein would no doubt aver that everything Nietzsche wrote was simply gibberish. Who am I to believe.. him.. or you?
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themadstork Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. What the hell would Witt care about empirically tested ideas?
Besides Witt was a kook too, said a bunch of weird things.

Why do his ideas require empirical testing? WTH?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Nietzsche was certainly not a kook.
Edited on Sat Apr-16-11 07:21 PM by Odin2005
The idiots that rave about him, thinking he justifies their narcissism, without understanding him are the real kooks. He is actually a very deep thinker, even though I personally turn some of his ideas on their head, the pre-Christian "master morality" was quite brilliant and creative in some ways, but it also lead to, in some respects, a kind of sociopathic attitude. I don't think Nietzsche was really trying to excuse sociopathy sound good, instead he was criticizing the kind of attitude we find here in the US where idiots bash artists and intellectuals. What he calls "slave morality" is good in it's egalitarianism, but we must beware it's tendency to promote populistic anti-intellectualism.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. Kind of like trying to listen to Glenn Beck, Bachmann, Limbaugh, or
any speech given by one of the teabagger pols.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
24. I think that we should try to understand evil as much as possible.
Because if we don't - it will happen again. I hate to draw the compaison but the rise of the tea party really isn't much different than the rise of the Nazis.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yes. They march through the streets after their meetings and
beat people while destroying the property of anyone who disagrees with them. They just don't dress in brown shirts. I see a lot of plaid and mis-matched colors.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. The Nazis could spell
Only difference I see
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Ha ha ha ha ha ha... Can't disagree there!
:rofl:
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pink-o Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. The sad thing is Ayn Rand's original last name was Rosenbaum
She, like you and I, was Jewish and despised Communism so went to the other extreme. Obviously her books were therapy for working out her neuroses, something we do a lot (like Woody Allen, or Aaron Sorkin, or Zwick and Herskovitz). But the rabid followers who take her word as if it were carried down from Mt Sinai are the ones that scare the drek outta me.

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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. hey, Leo Strauss was Jewish too.
Look at all the right-wing deviltry his disciples have created in the name of neo-conservatism.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
36. I got halfway through Mein Kampf and read every last endlessly repetitive ham-fisted bit of Atlas
Libertarianism is a glimmering bit of self-aggrandizement for adolescents of average intelligence who consider themselves geniuses and bedeviled by the inferior. The vulgar, surfacy hero-worship of the most facile of human characteristics and the self-righteous dismissal of others is as astonishing as it is ultra-simplistic. To take that depiction of life as in any way valid for groups of more than five people betrays ignorance and pig-headedness in the extreme.

Dialogue that bad makes tinniness seem poetry in comparison, and the overwrought endlessness of its sanctimony is a sight to behold.

It's a must-read, if only to coldly prove to the reader what coldness actually exists out there, and the horrible crafting of the scenes and dialogue is a marvel to behold.

Something draws me to see this bit of ugliness, but I just don't feel like giving them a nickel. Still, the sociological event of watching the audience and seeing the damned thing tugs at my prurience.

The very idea that people take this wicked little hypocrite seriously is one thing, but the degree of hagiography is a depressing testimony to humanity...
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
37. Among the reasons that Mein Kampf
are a struggle to read are:

1) you are not the targeted audience which leads us to
2) your lack of the cultural and historical common ground

this makes understanding the book a real challenge.

BTW, I did slog through Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto. Marx was the frigging master of the run on sentence. I remember reading and dissecting a sentence that had 9 or 10 commas and several semicolons. please note this is dependent upon which version you have. I have read 2 versions - - one in High School and one in college. the one that the Jesuits made me read was different enough from the other one that I took notice (the college one clearly had a grammatic guru clean it up to make it a more reasonable read)
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Suji to Seoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-20-11 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
61. 3) I have a functioning, working brain!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 05:01 AM
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38. I think it's strange that a "historian" reads only a few chapters of major books.
BTW: "Mein Kampf" is considered by THE WORLD to be "of extreme historical importance."
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franzia99 Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 06:53 AM
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39. I've read that Hitler's doctor was giving him lots of meth
That by itself would explain the paranoia and delusions of grandeur. Though that doesn't mean he wasn't also mentally ill without the meth.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 07:19 PM
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44. I had to read all of Mein Kampf for a college class and it was amazing to me how it was so clearly
written by a paranoid person with delusions of grandeur.
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:11 AM
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48. From the 1939 Academic translation - Translators Introduction

TRANSLATOR’S INTRODUCTION
In placing before the reader this unabridged translation of Adolf Hitler’s book, Mein Kampf, I feel it my duty to call attention to certain historical facts which must be borne in mind if the reader would form a fair judgment of what is written in this extraordinary work.
The first volume of Mein Kampf was written while the author was imprisoned in a Bavarian fortress. How did he get there and why? The answer to that question is important, because the book deals with the events which brought the author into this plight and because he wrote under the emotional stress caused by the historical happenings of the time. It was the hour of Germany’s deepest humiliation, somewhat parallel to that of a little over a century before, when Napoleon had dismembered the old German Empire and French soldiers occupied almost the whole of Germany.
In the beginning of 1923 the French invaded Germany, occupied the Ruhr district and seized several German towns in the Rhineland. This was a flagrant breach of international law and was protested against by every section of British political opinion at that time. The Germans could not effectively defend themselves, as they had been already disarmed under the provisions of the Versailles Treaty. To make the situation more fraught with disaster for Germany, and therefore more appalling in its prospect, the French carried on an intensive propaganda for the separation of the Rhineland from the German Republic and the establishment of an independent Rhenania. Money was poured out lavishly to bribe agitators to carry on this work, and some of the most insidious elements of the German population became active in the pay of the invader. At the same time a vigorous movement was being carried on in Bavaria for the secession of that country and the establishment of an independent Catholic monarchy there, under vassalage to France, as Napoleon had done when he made Maximilian the first King of Bavaria in 1805.
The separatist movement in the Rhineland went so far that some leading German politicians came out in favour of it, suggesting that if the Rhineland were thus ceded it might be possible for the German Republic to strike a bargain with the French in regard to Reparations. But in Bavaria the movement went even farther. And it was more far-reaching in its implications; for, if an independent Catholic monarchy could be set up in Bavaria, the next move would have been a union with Catholic German-Austria. possibly under a Habsburg King. Thus a Catholic bloc would have been created which would extend from the Rhineland through Bavaria and Austria into the Danube Valley and would have been at least under the moral and military, if not the full political, hegemony of France. The dream seems fantastic now, but it was considered quite a practical thing in those fantastic times. The effect of putting such a plan into action would have meant the complete dismemberment of Germany; and that is what French
9
diplomacy aimed at. Of course such an aim no longer exists. And I should not recall what must now seem “old, unhappy, far-off things” to the modern generation, were it not that they were very near and actual at the time Mein Kampf was written and were more unhappy then than we can even imagine now.
By the autumn of 1923 the separatist movement in Bavaria was on the point of becoming an accomplished fact. General von Lossow, the Bavarian chief of the Reichswehr no longer took orders from Berlin. The flag of the German Republic was rarely to be seen, Finally, the Bavarian Prime Minister decided to proclaim an independent Bavaria and its secession from the German Republic. This was to have taken place on the eve of the Fifth Anniversary of the establishment of the German Republic (November 9th, 1918.)
Hitler staged a counter-stroke. For several days he had been mobilizing his storm battalions in the neighbourhood of Munich, intending to make a national demonstration and hoping that the Reichswehr would stand by him to prevent secession. Ludendorff was with him. And he thought that the prestige of the great German Commander in the World War would be sufficient to win the allegiance of the professional army.
A meeting had been announced to take place in the Bürgerbräu Keller on the night of November 8th. The Bavarian patriotic societies were gathered there, and the Prime Minister, Dr. von Kahr, started to read his official pronunciamento, which practically amounted to a proclamation of Bavarian independence and secession from the Republic. While von Kahr was speaking Hitler entered the hall, followed by Ludendorff. And the meeting was broken up.
Next day the Nazi battalions took the street for the purpose of making a mass demonstration in favour of national union. They marched in massed formation, led by Hitler and Ludendorff. As they reached one of the central squares of the city the army opened fire on them. Sixteen of the marchers were instantly killed, and two died of their wounds in the local barracks of the Reichswehr. Several others were wounded also. Hitler fell on the pavement and broke a collar-bone. Ludendorff marched straight up to the soldiers who were firing from the barricade, but not a man dared draw a trigger on his old Commander.
Hitler was arrested with several of his comrades and imprisoned in the fortress of Landsberg on the River Lech. On February 26th, 1924, he was brought to trial before the Volksgericht, or People’s Court in Munich. He was sentenced to detention in a fortress for five years. With several companions, who had been also sentenced to various periods of imprisonment, he returned to Landsberg am Lech and remained there until the 20th of the following December, when he was released. In all he spent about thirteen months in prison. It was during this period that he wrote the first volume of Mein Kampf.
If we bear all this in mind we can account for the emotional stress under which Mein Kampf was written. Hitler was naturally incensed against the Bavarian government authorities, against the footling patriotic societies who were pawns in the French game, though often unconsciously so, and of course against the
10
French. That he should write harshly of the French was only natural in the circumstances. At that time there was no exaggeration whatsoever in calling France the implacable and mortal enemy of Germany. Such language was being used by even the pacifists themselves, not only in Germany but abroad. And even though the second volume of Mein Kampf was written after Hitler’s release from prison and was published after the French had left the Ruhr, the tramp of the invading armies still echoed in German ears, and the terrible ravages that had been wrought in the industrial and financial life of Germany, as a consequence of the French invasion, had plunged the country into a state of social and economic chaos. In France itself the franc fell to fifty per cent of its previous value. Indeed, the whole of Europe had been brought to the brink of ruin, following the French invasion of the Ruhr and Rhineland.
But, as those things belong to the limbo of a dead past that nobody wishes to have remembered now, it is often asked: Why doesn’t Hitler revise Mein Kampf? The answer, as I think, which would immediately come into the mind of an impartial critic is that Mein Kampf is an historical document which bears the imprint of its own time. To revise it would involve taking it out of its historical context. Moreover Hitler has declared that his acts and public statements constitute a partial revision of his book and are to be taken as such. This refers especially to the statements in Mein Kampf regarding France and those German kinsfolk that have not yet been incorporated in the Reich. On behalf of Germany he has definitely acknowledged the German portion of South Tyrol as permanently belonging to Italy and, in regard to France, he has again and again declared that no grounds now exist for a conflict of political interests between Germany and France and that Germany has no territorial claims against France. Finally, I may note here that Hitler has also declared that, as he was only a political leader and not yet a statesman in a position of official responsibility, when he wrote this book, what he stated in Mein Kampf does not implicate him as Chancellor of the Reich.
I now come to some references in the text which are frequently recurring and which may not always be clear to every reader. For instance, Hitler speaks indiscriminately of the German Reich. Sometimes he means to refer to the first Reich, or Empire, and sometimes to the German Empire as founded under William I in 1871. Incidentally the regime which he inaugurated in 1933 is generally known as the Third Reich, though this expression is not used in Mein Kampf. Hitler also speaks of the Austrian Reich and the East Mark, without always explicitly distinguishing between the Habsburg Empire and Austria proper. If the reader will bear the following historical outline in mind, he will understand the references as they occur.
The word Reich, which is a German form of the Latin word Regnum, does not mean Kingdom or Empire or Republic. It is a sort of basic word that may apply to any form of Constitution. Perhaps our word, Realm, would be the best translation, though the word Empire can be used when the Reich was actually an
11
Empire. The forerunner of the first German Empire was the Holy Roman Empire which Charlemagne founded in A.D. 800. Charlemagne was King of the Franks, a group of Germanic tribes that subsequently became Romanized. In the tenth century Charlemagne’s Empire passed into German hands when Otto I (936-973) became Emperor. As the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, its formal appellation, it continued to exist under German Emperors until Napoleon overran and dismembered Germany during the first decade of the last century. On August 6th, 1806, the last Emperor, Francis II, formally resigned the German crown. In the following October Napoleon entered Berlin in triumph, after the Battle of Jena.
After the fall of Napoleon a movement set in for the reunion of the German states in one Empire. But the first decisive step towards that end was the foundation of the Second German Empire in 1871, after the Franco-Prussian War. This Empire, however, did not include the German lands which remained under the Habsburg Crown. These were known as German Austria. It was Bismarck’s dream to unite German Austria with the German Empire; but it remained only a dream until Hitler turned it into a reality in 1938. It is well to bear that point in mind, because this dream of reuniting all the German states in one Reich has been a dominant feature of German patriotism and statesmanship for over a century and has been one of Hitler’s ideals since his childhood.
In Mein Kampf Hitler often speaks of the East Mark. This East Mark - i.e. eastern frontier land - was founded by Charlemagne as the eastern bulwark of the Empire. It was inhabited principally by Germano-Celtic tribes called Bajuvari and stood for centuries as the firm bulwark of Western Christendom against invasion from the East, especially against the Turks. Geographically it was almost identical with German Austria.
There are a few points more that I wish to mention in this introductory note. For instance, I have let the word Weltanschhauung stand in its original form very often. We have no one English word to convey the same meaning as the German word, and it would have burdened the text too much if I were to use a circumlocution each time the word occurs. Weltanschhauung literally means “Outlook-on-the World”. But as generally used in German this outlook on the world means a whole system of ideas associated together in an organic unity - ideas of human life, human values, cultural and religious ideas, politics, economics, etc., in fact a totalitarian view of human existence. Thus Christianity could be called a Weltanschhauung, and Mohammedanism could be called a Weltanschhauung, and Socialism could be called a Weltanschhauung, especially as preached in Russia. National Socialism claims definitely to be a Weltanschhauung.
Another word I have often left standing in the original is völkisch. The basic word here is Volk, which is sometimes translated as People; but the German word, Volk, means the whole body of the people without any distinction of class or caste. It is a primary word also that suggests what might be called the basic 12
national stock. Now, after the defeat in 1918, the downfall of the Monarchy and the destruction of the aristocracy and the upper classes, the concept of Das Volk came into prominence as the unifying co-efficient which would embrace the whole German people. Hence the large number of völkisch societies that arose after the war and hence also the National Socialist concept of unification which is expressed by the word Volksgemeinschaft, or folk community. This is used in contradistinction to the Socialist concept of the nation as being divided into classes. Hitler’s ideal is the Völkischer Staat, which I have translated as the People’s State.
Finally, I would point out that the term Social Democracy may be misleading in English, as it has not a democratic connotation in our sense. It was the name given to the Socialist Party in Germany. And that Party was purely Marxist; but it adopted the name Social Democrat in order to appeal to the democratic sections of the German people.
JAMES MURPHY.
Abbots Langley, February, 1939
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
49. From the 1939 Academic translation - Translators Footnotes
FOOT NOTES
In order to understand the reference here, and similar references in later portions of Mein Kampf, the following must be borne in mind:

1) From 1792 to 1814 the French Revolutionary Armies overran Germany. In 1800 Bavaria shared in the Austrian defeat at Hohenlinden and the French occupied Munich. In 1805 the Bavarian Elector was made King of Bavaria by Napoleon and stipulated to back up Napoleon in all his wars with a force of 30,000 men. Thus Bavaria became the absolute vassal of the French. This was ‘The Time of Germany’s Deepest Humiliation’, Which is referred to again and again by Hitler.
In 1806 a pamphlet entitled ‘Germany’s Deepest Humiliation’ was published in South Germany. Amnng those who helped to circulate the pamphlet was the Nürnberg bookseller, Johannes Philipp Palm. He was denounced to the French by a Bavarian police agent. At his trial he refused to disclose the name of the author. By Napoleon’s orders, he was shot at Braunau-on-the-Inn on August 26th, 1806. A monument erected to him on the site of the execution was one of the first public objects that made an impression on Hitler as a little boy.
Leo Schlageter’s case was in many respects parallel to that of Johannes Palm. Schlageter was a German theological student who volunteered for service in 1914. He became an artillery officer and won the Iron Cross of both classes. When the French occupied the Ruhr in 1923 Schlageter helped to organize the passive resistance on the German side. He and his companions blew up a railway bridge for the purpose of making the transport of coal to France more difficult.
Those who took part in the affair were denounced to the French by a German informer. Schlageter took the whole responsibility on his own shoulders and was condemned to death, his companions being sentenced to various terms of imprisonment and penal servitude by the French Court. Schlageter refused to disclose the identity of those who issued the order to blow up the railway bridge and he would not plead for mercy before a French Court. He was shot by a French firing-squad on May 26th, 1923. Severing was at that time German Minister of the Interior. It is said that representations were made, to him on Schlageter’s behalf and that he refused to interfere.
Schlageter has become the chief martyr of the German resistancc to the French occupation of the Ruhr and also one of the great heroes of the National Socialist Movement. He had joined the Movement at a very early stage, his card of membership bearing the number 61.

2) Non-classical secondary school. The Lyceum and Gymnasium were classical or semiclassical secondary schools.

3) See Translator’s Introduction.

4) When Francis II had laid down his title as Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, which he did at the command of Napoleon, the
3
Crown and Mace, as the Imperial Insignia, were kept in Vienna. After the German Empire was refounded, in 1871, under William I, there were many demands to have the Insignia transferred to Berlin. But these went unheeded. Hitler had them brought to Germany after the Austrian Anschluss and displayed at Nuremberg during the Party Congress in September 1938.

5) The Phaecians were a legendary people, mentioned in Homer’s Odyssey. They were supposed to live on some unknown island in the Eastern Mediterranean, sometimes suggested to be Corcyra, the modern Corfu. They loved good living more than work, and so the name Phaecian has come to be a synonym for parasite.

6) Spottgeburt von Dreck und Feuer. This is the epithet that Faust hurls at Mephistopheles as the latter intrudes on the conversation between Faust and Martha in the garden: Mephistopheles: Thou, full of sensual, super-sensual desire, A girl by the nose is leading thee. Faust: Abortion, thou of filth and fire.

7) Herodotus (Book VII, 213-218) tells the story of how a Greek traitor, Ephialtes, helped the Persian invaders at the Battle of Thermopylae (480 B.C.) When the Persian King, Xerxes, had begun to despair of being able to break through the Greek defence, Ephialtes came to him and, on being promised a definite payment, told the King of a pathway over the shoulder of the mountain to the Greek end of the Pass. The bargain being clinched, Ephialtes led a detachment of the Persian troops under General Hydarnes over the mountain pathway. Thus taken in the rear, the Greek defenders, under Leonidas, King of Sparta, had to fight in two opposite directions within the narrow pass. Terrible slaughter ensued and Leonidas fell in the thick of the fighting.
The bravery of Leonidas and the treason of Ephialtes impressed Hitler, as it does almost every schoolboy. The incident is referred to again in Mein Kampf (Chap. VIII, Vol. I), where Hitler compares the German troops that fell in France and Flanders to the Greeks at Thermopylae, the treachery of Ephialtes being suggested as the prototype of the defeatist policy of the German politicians towards the end of the Great War.

8) German Austria was the East Mark on the South and East Prussia was the East Mark on the North.

9) Carlyle explains the epithet thus: "First then, let no one from the title Gehoernte (Horned, Behorned), fancy that our brave Siegfried, who was the loveliest as well as the bravest of men, was actually cornuted, and had horns on his brow, though like Michael Angelo’s Moses; or even that his skin, to which the epithet Behorned refers, was hard like a crocodile’s, and not softer than the softest shamey, for the truth is, his Hornedness means only an Invulnerability, like that of Achilles…"

10) Lines quoted from the Song of the Curassiers in Schiller’s Wallenstein.

11) The Second Infantry Bavarian Regiment, in which Hitler served as a volunteer.
4

12) Schwabing is the artistic quarter in Munich where artists have their studios and litterateurs, especially of the Bohemian class, foregather.

13) Here again we have the defenders of Thermopylæ recalled as the prototype of German valour in the Great War. Hitler’s quotation is a German variant of the couplet inscribed on the monument erected at Thermopylæ to the memory of Leonidas and his Spartan soldiers who fell defending the Pass. As given by Herodotus, who claims that he saw the inscription himself, the original text may be literally translated thus:
Go, tell the Spartans, thou who passeth by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

14)Swedish Chancellor who took over the reins of Government after the death of Gustavus Adolphus

15) When Mephistopheles first appears to Faust, in the latter’s study, Faust inquires: "What is thy name?" To which Mephistopheles replies: "A part of the Power which always wills the Bad and always works the Good." And when Faust asks him what is meant by this riddle and why he should call himself ‘a part,’ the gist of Mephistopheles’ reply is that he is the Spirit of Negation and exists through opposition to the positive Truth and Order and Beauty which proceed from the never-ending creative energy of the Deity. In the Prologue to Faust the Lord declares that man’s active nature would grow sluggish in working the good and that therefore he has to be aroused by the Spirit of Opposition. This Spirit wills the Bad, but of itself it can do nothing positive, and by its opposition always works the opposite of what it wills.

16) The last and most famous of the medieval alchemists. He was born at Basle about the year 1490 and died at Salzburg in 1541. He taught that all metals could be transmuted through the action of one primary element common to them all. This element he called Alcahest. If it could be found it would prove to be at once the philosopher’s stone, the universal medicine and the irresistible solvent. There are many aspects of his teaching which are now looked upon as by no means so fantastic as they were considered in his own time.

17) The Battle of Leipzig (1813), where the Germans inflicted an overwhelming defeat on Napoleon, was the decisive event which put an end to the French occupation of Germany.
The occupation had lasted about twenty years. After the Great War, and the partial occupation of Germany once again by French forces, the Germans used to celebrate the anniversary of the Battle of Leipzig as a symbol of their yearning.

18) The flag of the German Empire, founded in 1871, was Black-White-Red. This was discarded in 1918 and Black-Red-Gold was chosen as the flag of the German Republic founded at Weimar in 1919. The flag designed by Hitler - red with a white disc in the centre, bearing the black swastika - is now the national flag.
5

19) After the debacle of 1918 several semi-military associations were formed by demobilized officers who had fought at the Front. These were semi-clandestine associations and were known as Freikorps (Volunteer corps). Their principal purpose was to act as rallying centres for the old nationalist elements.

20) Schiller, who wrote the famous drama of William Tell.

21) The reference here is to those who gave information to the Allied Commissions about hidden stores of arms in Germany.

22) Before 1918 Germany was a federal Empire, composed of twenty-five federal states.

23) Probably the author has two separate incidents in mind. The first happened in 390 B.C., when, as the victorious Gauls descended on Rome, the Senators ordered their ivory chairs to be placed in the Forum before the Temples of the Gods. There, clad in their robes of state, they awaited the invader, hoping to save the city by sacrificing themselves. This noble gesture failed for the time being; but it had an inspiring influence on subsequent generations. The second incident, which has more historical authenticity, occurred after the Roman defeat at Cannae in 216 B.C. On that occasion Varro, the Roman commander, who, though in great part responsible for the disaster, made an effort to carry on the struggle, was, on his return to Rome, met by the citizens of all ranks and publicly thanked because he had not despaired of the Republic. The consequence was that the Republic refused to make peace with the victorious Carthagenians
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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
50. Translators notes added above - Why?
I've added the Translator's footnotes and intro, because footnotes are always awesome to read and because it frames the 'book' in the period.

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nomb Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. ADD, Translator may not be neutral!
Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 11:39 AM by nomb
This was the translation I purchased for class, as directed, from The Coop. I may have, and did, inadvertently placed the translator above the frey.

Although unknown to me at the time, it appears that the translator's bona fides have been more recently questioned.

"James Vincent Murphy was an Irish journalist who started out as a Catholic priest, spent the twenties in Rome and Paris, and reported from Berlin on the Nazis. An international lecturer and linguist, Murphy knew many of Europe's famed intellectuals."

I won't try to even begin to unwind the Wartime neutral Ireland's hate for England, or Irish rebel's "enemy of my enemy is my friend" dealings - suffice it to say, others have besmirched him as a propogandist. True or not, take his 1939 writings with a grain of salt or two until you can read a trusted historians take on the subject.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. I would be interested in reading Mein Kampf, just because
I find insane ramblings so interesting. You would probably no doubt find someone who seems coherent and normal superficially that is completely paranoid and gone mentally.
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