food prices + gas prices + clothing prices

[cali]

mean there is real inflation for most of us no matter what the government says. Prices on basics are skyrocketing and yet there's very little conversation about it in the MSM or even here. Prices on many food items in my local market have just about doubled in a few months (coffee, butter, certain vegetables)

And it's forecast to get sharply worse in a brief period of time.

[dkf]

1. Oh but you can get a fast computer real cheap!

:sarcasm:

[koffeekup]

2. Commodity prices are going through the roof

All these increased prices as a result of shortages, real or perceived, are going to end up taking money out of our pockets in due time.

As much as I want a green world, the reality is that China, India, Russia, and dozens and dozens of other countries are not ever going to get off oil as long as there is a drop in the ground. They just aren't going to do it and anything you read to the contrary is just propaganda put out there to make it seem this country is falling behind in alternative energy. It is an economic war and we are falling for the trap set for us by those that want to dominate the economy of the world and kick the USA out of the conversation. I don't envision a world economy dominated by the likes of China or Russia as being very eco friendly in the least.

[Scuba]

3. Disagree. Everyone will get off oil as soon as there is a better alternative. Now if we could ...

...just divert those tax rebates currently going to Big Oil and direct them to developing technologies to harvest renewable energy, maybe we'd get someplace.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9555082

[koffeekup]

5. The USA uses about a trillion dollars worth of oil each year.

Oil companies get about 35 billion in tax "rebates" against a trillion in cost and that is insignificant.

[Scuba]

7. Think what we could do with that $35 B that's going into the pockets...

...of some of the wealthiest people on earth, who would make a very nice profit on their oil investments without that money.

[koffeekup]

11. Think was we could do with the 700 billion going to foreign countries for their oil

700 billion would be better spent on our own oil in our own ground.

[Scuba]

12. I'm not sure I follow that. If we drill in the US, that oil goes straight onto...

...the international market, just like all the other oil.

Then US customers buy it, with the proceeds going to the (international) stockholders of whatever company owns it.


How does drilling US oil help?

[koffeekup]

14. How does drilling US oil help? JOBS of course.

We can't drill it out of the ground and get it to world markets without creating tens of thousands of jobs, maybe hundreds of thousands of jobs can we.

Additionally, the profit derived from drilling and transporting the oil in the US is taxed in the US instead of the profit staying in Saudi Arabia or wherever.

Additionally, refining costs would go down as refineries would switch to refining oil 1,000 or 2,000 miles away as opposed to having to pay the transport cost for 10,000 or more miles.

Oil is a fungible product, but fungible doesn't mean the jobs are.

Just as it makes sense to grow our own corn rather than let the rest of the world grow corn that we then compete in the purchasing process for so does drilling for and using our own domestic oil supply.

China ain't going off oil...Russia ain't going off oil....and neither is the rest of the world. We can talk all day about alternative energy, but when that alternative energy is twice the cost everybody else incurs, the jobs leave.

[Scuba]

15. Your point about jobs makes sense. I'm not sure about the profits...

...staying here though. That's not how it works now. If a stockholder in the drilling (or transporting or refining) companies are British citizens, his/her profits are not taxed in the US.

What am I missing?

As for transportation costs going down, that may be correct (not sure how the world market treats these costs) but it is doubtful any savings would be passed along to American consumers.

Again, if I'm missing something I genuinely appreciate your helping me better understand.

[koffeekup]

16. Foreign entities making money in the US pay US taxes on US income.

Fact. It doesn't matter if China owns the drilling company. If the Chinese company hires 10,000 Americans to drill oil, using the proceeds to pay the workers, the taxes assessed to the employees obviously stay in the US as well as the payroll taxes. If the Chinese company shows a profit on the drilling, it better pay US income taxes on it or the IRS (eventually) will put a lien on the company's equipment and assets. Now, the company may have tax incentives or other legal ways to minimize or eliminate the tax, but that is another argument.

[Scuba]

18. So the international oil company will be liable for US income taxes? ....

...kinda like Exxon/Mobil?

[koffeekup]

22. If you don't believe they pay income tax, fathom the amount of tax the workers pay.

IF we cut out imports and used our own oil:

Easily 60% of the cost of getting oil out of the ground in the US is labor and US labor at that. If it costs $30 to get a barrel of oil out of the ground (new well cost) and we import 15 million barrels a day and the workers pay 20% income taxes on it, that is over 50 MILLION dollars in US income taxes EACH and EVERY day, that is over 20 BILLION dollars in additional taxes collected on income alone. Now add another 80 billion for homes, food, services, state taxes, and then add payroll taxes to that at the rate of over 7% for employees and 7% for the employer to fica and ss.

[Scuba]

23. Payroll taxes are a GOOD thing, no doubt. How about this...

...let's improve the royalty fees that Big Oil is paying the US..... I understand Norway gets a far higher percentage than we do.

[koffeekup]

24. That just comes out of the consumer's pocket (as all taxes do).

Seriously, there isn't a tax, royalty, fee, etc. that isn't ultimately paid by the consumer.

[Exilednight]

27. Transportation costs will NOT go down. This is a myth perpetuated by

the right. They argue that oil prices are high due to turmoil in the mid-east which has caused a shortage of oil. In reality, we are currently importing more oil than we are using.

It's also proof of the supply and demand myth. If high supply truly brought down prices, then oil be at almost record level low prices.

The reason prices are so high right now is due to speculation. Speculators have driven up current prices in the face of high supply vs low demand.

[Marrah_G]

21. Making solar panels and wind turbines using US materials would also create jobs

[truth2power]

19. You beat me to it, but thanks. My Gawd! Why can't we seem to get the message out

on this, if nothing else. Every. Single. Time. someone starts talking about "reducing our dependence on foreign oil", or some iteration of that, it should be refuted.

I think even Pres. Obama has alluded to this, or even said it outright. I can't be sure because he is very skilled at "seeming' to say what he's not, in fact, saying.

Oil is sold on the international market to the highest bidder. Drilling in alaska, or wherever, isn't going to net us any more of OUR oil.

[Marrah_G]

20. Every home should have solar panels on them

That would go a long way to improving things. Unfortunately since they aren't in great demand the cost is still pretty high :(

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. Obama has the power, from what I understand, to stop speculation on oil prices.

But they all choose not to. That is something that should not be speculated on. It should be set and they should be told either you sell it for this amount or you go away. And then you subsidize the development of solar and wind power, and encourage more hydroelectricity.
Duckie

[badtoworse]

13. You should study history

Carter tried that with natural gas in the 70's by fixing the wellhead price (I don't remember what the price was, but that was all that a producer could charge). As a result, there were natural gas shortages. When Reagan removed the limit on natural gas prices, producers invested heavily in new production and we've had decades of relatively cheap natural gas since. Even today, natural gas is relatively cheap on a $/MMBTU basis. If you limited the price that producers could charge for crude, you would see severe shortages because there would be insufficient incentive to invest in new production. You may not have been around for the gas lines in the 70's, but I was and I don't want to see a repeat - I'd rather pay a higher price that makes investment worthwhile.

The other problem with your approach is that oil is sold on a world market. We don't have the leverage to control the world price and foreign produces would just sell to someone else.

As for solar, wind and hydro, they aren't going to replace fossil fuels and nuclear anytime soon, even with massive investment. Besides that, we don't generate much electricity from oil because it is an expensive fuel. Eliminating oil fired electricity generation would not have much of an impact.

[koffeekup]

17. Well that would work out fine.

What price should Obama set it at? $50 per barrel? What do we do when nobody sells it to us for that and just ships it overseas or imports stop. Do we put guards at the ports to stop any oil flowing overseas? Do we kidnap tankers at sea claiming they have to sell us the oil at $50. Where does the $60 that is the difference between world oil prices and Obama's set price of $50 come from? Do we take it out of corporations assets? Do we take it from US drivers as a tax? Good luck with that since the $50 per barrel price would mean we don't have a drop of oil in the country.

[Le Taz Hot]

4. I put $80.00 in my gas tank

1998 Ford F150 and didn't fill up the tank. $4.17 a gallon. Thank goddess my 89-year-old sainted Aunt pays for my gas (for that, she gets door-to-door service to/from anywhere she wants to go). The only thing saving me from the outrageous food price increase is, 1)I cook everything from scratch, 2)we don't eat a lot of meat and 3) my garden. Clothes? I don't remember the last time I bought clothes in an actual retail department store. All Hail the Thrift Stores.

We're living on the edge now, husband almost out of unemployment and NO prospects in an 18.2% unemployment rate. It gets worse, we're going down hard.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. Tshirts at Target for 8-10 bucks.

And they are comfy and versatile. I wear them at work, dressed up with cardigans and i wear them at home lounging about. I was listening to NPR yesterday and they were talking about inflation happening. They spoke to some government guy who said we need to get a handle on it and all that. NPR is good in that way, as they report on things you will NEVER see on CNN or CBS.
NPR is planning a head for not having the funding they get from the government. People were donating extra this year because of it (They just finished their pledge drive).

[Exilednight]

9. Using pre 1980 methodology, inflation is over 10%.

After former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker was appointed in 1979, the consumer price index surged into the double digits, causing the now revered Fed Chief to double the benchmark interest rate in order to break the back of inflation. Using the methodology in place at that time puts the CPI back near those levels.

Inflation, using the reporting methodologies in place before 1980, hit an annual rate of 9.6 percent in February, according to the Shadow Government Statistics newsletter.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42551209

[SoCalDem]

26. We have the worst of both worlds..

Back then when inflation was high, INTEREST rates were as well, which made housing prices lower, and savings paid nice interest (we got 14.7 something% on a CD we had in the early 80's.

Now we have shitty interest rates on savings, houses we contracted to pay more for than they are worth (so we cannot afford to sell low), wages have fallen, benefits have been eliminated, AND the prices of everything have gone through the roof..

[xchrom]

10. yeah -- the government actually these price weren't going to last.

i don't even know what that means -- they've been going up for a while -- if they are going to come down -- how low?

how well is the economy doing then?

[lonestarnot]

25. And you expect something different with richie riches in charge how?

[Change Happens]

28. Clothing prices actually went down - AGAIN!