From Counterpunch: "What's Really Going on in Libya?" by Alexander Cockburn

[PurityOfEssence]

Here's a taste, and I heartily suggest reading it. He definitely gets points for coining "mission leap" as the offspring of the creepily pre-apologetic term of self-absolution, "mission creep".

It looks as though eastern Libya will slide into the Mediterranean under the sheer weight of western journalists assembled in Benghazi and Misrata. A tsunami of breathless reports suggests that Misrata is enduring travails not far short of the siege of Leningrad in World War 2. The reports have been seized on by Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy to raise the ante on Mission Odyssey Dawn. In their joint newspaper column published both sides of the Atlantic they now say that to leave Gaddafi in power would be an "unconscionable betrayal" and speak of Misrata as enduring “a medieval siege.” Not yet, surely. A medieval siege was something that usually lasted at least a year, in which the city’s inhabitants were reduced to eating rats, then each other, and the besiegers all succumbed to plague.

Maybe it will turn out that way, with reporters eying each other from a gastronomic perspective and wiring Ferran Adria, seeking recipes for preparing Haunch of Hack sous vide. "So long as Gaddafi is in power, Nato and its coalition partners must maintain their operations so that civilians remain protected and the pressure on the regime builds," write the three leaders. This is not Mission Creep but, once again, Mission Leap, way beyond the UN mandate.

Counter Punch

Mmmm...haunch of hack.

[Starry Messenger]

1. k&r

[bhikkhu]

2. Gadhafi using cluster bombs in Misrata in civilian areas

...which is a little silly to say, as it is a city of civilians, of course, who would simply rather choose their own leadership.

That's "what's really going on in Libya" lately, as far as what's new that I have heard.

I didn't notice that in the article though - in spite of its title it seems to be more "what the western media is saying about what western countries are saying about what other people might be thinking...". In any case, if Gadhafi is using cluster bombs in Misrata against civilians, as the evidence seems to indicate, then the UN mission remains pretty solid, and NATO is still well within the bounds of its mandate.

[PurityOfEssence]

4. The US also uses cluster bombs, although not here, but we ARE using depleted uranium projectiles

Oh, that's right: THEY had it coming to them. Everyone in the enclave here is "innocent", presumably even those who've taken up arms against their government.

If the rebels cared so much about the civilians in Misrata, why haven't they asked for safe passage for them to be spirited out of the fighting? If they're in a war zone, they're subject to war. The answer to that is that if all civilians were given free passage, then the loyalists could then flatten whoever's left. The rebels are quite pleased to keep it this way.

Why is it that "human shields" are only when the other guy does it?

When you go into armed insurrection against your government, you are at war. Those who are stuck there are in a terrible position, but have the rebels given them a chance to choose sides?

Making this very complex situation a simple one is either deception, naivety or stupidity. Civil wars are notorious for putting the unaligned in very precarious positions. If the civilians were given a choice to leave or identify themselves with the rebels, many would be afraid to leave, fearing reprisals from the rebels. There HAVE been killings of loyalists in Benghazi and elsewhere, so people are horribly stuck.

Prolonging a war that may very well have ended by now without intervention is also pretty despicable, and doing so with a casual effort that really doesn't put the lives of the interventionists at risk is an insult.

[sabrina 1]

6. How do you know those reports are true? Haven't we learned

that when this country wants to invade another country, we always get the 'babies in the oven' stories, which mostly turn out to be lies.

As for cluster bombs, the U.S. surely cannot be pretending to be outraged by anyone else using cluster bombs, since they used them over and over again in Iraq, on markets where women and children shopped and were blown to bits eg.q

Has Qaddafi used Drones yet, killing civilians by pressing buttons thousands of miles away?

How about white phospherous? Will we pretend to be outraged by anyone else using it? As the Chinese told us recently, we need to mind our own business.

We are being set up for yet another war, because of oil. Anyone who thinks that these three countries, all Colonialists, care one bit about the people of Libya has got to be fooling themselves.

From early on, predictions were made that Western powers would find a way to invade Libya.

Qaddafi, no matter what we think of him, has huge support in that country. Are we going to kill all of them, just as we did in Iraq?

The writing has been on the wall regarding this oil-producing country from weeks ago, especially after the revelations that the French eg, have been involved behind the scenes there since last year.

[slipslidingaway]

7. How many cluster bombs were dropped in Lebanon and where was the outrage...

relegated to a dungeon somewhere, nobody should be using these.

Our outrage should be equal for all civilians.

[EFerrari]

9. By the same logic, we should be intervening in Thailand

Thailand Uses Cluster Munitions Against Cambodia

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Thailand-Uses-Cluster-Munitions-Against-Cambodia-119314594.html

But instead, iirc, we give Thailand military aid for the War on Terra.

[defendandprotect]

3. Cockburn should actually read some of the Libyan threads -- torture -- rape -- and Misurata -- !!

Shame, Cockburn -- shame!!

[PurityOfEssence]

10. How about some good old fashioned racist rape and killing from the rebels?

It's an old article, from more than a month ago, but it's worth a read.

The situation in Benghazi is very critical, because those Libya boys, they are going to houses and attacking our blacks, especially the Nigerians, and Ghanaians, raping our girls, stealing our money, and beating people up,” Jones said. “So we just run away from there. Most of our boys, they catch them and lock them up, so we don’t know what the situation is there.”

Jones had been working as a housekeeper in Benghazi. Her brother, an electrician named Terry David, also worked there. And he, too, said that rebels attacked him and other African migrants.

“Sometimes they hit us, anything they have in their hand. Point gun at you; sometimes blow out people’s brains,” Jones said. “So we can’t stand that, and have to run away from the country.”

Public Radio's The World

There have been other reports of summary executions of suspected loyalists, police and all sorts of other perfectly justifiable acts by the sweet, innocent victims of oppression. There's a big race problem in Benghazi, apparently, and many darker-skinned guest workers are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Let's not forget the fundamentalist problem here, too: Benghazi is an Islamist hotbed, and part of the reason the revolt is centered there is that this is where the LIFG comes from. They're the ones who hate Qaddafi because he's an apostate, and went on a killing spree in 1995-6, killing police and uniformed soldiers, as well as mounting an unsuccessful assassination attempt on him.

I'm sure there are some fine upstanding secular pluralists among the rebels, but there are probably some fine patriots among the loyalists, too.

[defendandprotect]

12. Again, I'd suggest some reading of the Libyan threads ---

Unfortunately, it is Gaddafi who has imported mercenaries -- 50,000 of them --

to fight to keep himself in power -- paying them $2,000 a day and more.

Gaddafi has also tried to FORCE "blacks" in Libya to fight for him --

and granted there do seem to have been some confusions about who is a G-mercenary.

I'm not familiar with the report you published --

but I am familiar with the day to day violence of the Gaddafi regime -- and Gaddafi

using rape as a tool of war. Doctors have discovered both Viagra and Condoms on

the bodies of Gaddafi fighters. And, there is no town that Gaddafi troops have

invaded or occupy where this is not happening.

As for executing captured soldiers, the Libyans have tried to make it policy not to

do so. Certainly, it is Gaddafi who has been raiding homes, kidnapping citizens,

raping and torturing.

Again -- I'd suggest you read the threads.

And the reports by Amnesty International and others --

[slipslidingaway]

5. This link works for me ...

http://counterpunch.com/cockburn04152011.html

"...Ellen Brown, author of the terrific Web of Debt: the Shocking Truth About Our Money System and How We Can Break Free, wrote recently about the rebels’ sophisticated financial operations in the following terms:

“According to a Russian article titled “Bombing of Lybia – Punishment for Ghaddafi for His Attempt to Refuse US Dollar,” Gadaffi made a similarly bold move: he initiated a movement to refuse the dollar and the euro, and called on Arab and African nations to use a new currency instead, the gold dinar. Gadaffi suggested establishing a united African continent, with its 200 million people using this single currency. During the past year, the idea was approved by many Arab countries and most African countries. The only opponents were the Republic of South Africa and the head of the League of Arab States. The initiative was viewed negatively by the USA and the European Union, with French president Nicolas Sarkozy calling Libya a threat to the financial security of mankind; but Gaddafi was not swayed and continued his push for the creation of a united Africa.

“And that brings us back to the puzzle of the Libyan central bank. In an article posted on the Market Oracle, Eric Encina observed: ‘One seldom mentioned fact by western politicians and media pundits: the Central Bank of Libya is 100% State Owned. . . . Currently, the Libyan government creates its own money, the Libyan Dinar, through the facilities of its own central bank. Few can argue that Libya is a sovereign nation with its own great resources, able to sustain its own economic destiny. One major problem for globalist banking cartels is that in order to do business with Libya, they must go through the Libyan Central Bank and its national currency, a place where they have absolutely zero dominion or power-broking ability. Hence, taking down the Central Bank of Libya (CBL) may not appear in the speeches of Obama, Cameron and Sarkozy but this is certainly at the top of the globalist agenda for absorbing Libya into its hive of compliant nations.’”

[EFerrari]

8. "Haunch of Hack"!

:rofl:

[PurityOfEssence]

11. Ya 'spose ya get mint jelly with that?

Braised slowly in the spittle of cloying flaks.