Howard Dean changes mind about Afghanistan? Says we should leave.

[madfloridian]

From The Daily Beast today.

Howard Dean to Obama: Get Out of Afghanistan!

by McKay Coppins
The former Democratic boss says the Afghanistan war is not winnable, the Kabul government is corrupt, and Karzai is almost as bad on women’s rights as the Taliban. In an interview with The Daily Beast’s McKay Coppins, the emboldened pol also blasts Tea Party radicals on the budget.

More:

With the U.S. military engaged in three separate Middle Eastern conflicts, Dean—the former governor of Vermont who rallied grassroots Democrats in 2004 by fervently condemning the Iraq war—has been notably absent from the left-wing criticism of President Obama’s defense policy. Once an anti-war icon, Dean has spent the past two years applauding the administration’s troop surge in Afghanistan, defending the slow withdrawal from Iraq, and endorsing the military intervention in Libya. But now, it appears, Dean is returning to his pacifistic roots—and he has a message for President Obama: Get our troops out of Afghanistan.

In a weekend interview with The Daily Beast, Dean said he’s had a change of heart when it comes to the war he has often defended. “I actually supported the president when he sent extra troops to Afghanistan,” Dean said. “But I’ve come to believe that’s not a winnable war.”

Careful as always not to blame the WH.

He is careful not to frame his argument as an attack on the White House, insisting he supports the president even though "we're going to disagree sometimes on policy." But Dean’s combative rhetoric marks a return to the passionate liberalism that many on the left have missed in recent months, as the hope-and-change candidate of 2008 has gotten bogged down in the pragmatic business of running the country. With Obama pursuing neocon-esque military actions, and cutting deals with Congressional Republicans on fiscal issues, a newly emboldened Dean could effectively lead a much-needed pep rally in the Democratic Party.

The blogger quotes Dean in his criticism of Scott Walker and Paul Ryan. Dean says they have done a lot of harm to the Republican prospects, that many did not bargain for that.

And the blogger is correct in this statement:

The soundbites may sound angry, but more than anything, Dean seems excited. And if there's one thing the Democratic Party needs right now, it's a little excitement.

[JVS]

1. We've gotten pretty deep into the big muddy.

[Vincardog]

2. We need to Draft Dean in 2012

[dennis4868]

3. At DU....

when Howard deal changes position people say "he changed his mind." When Obama does the same thing it's called a flip flop.....hahahaha!

[madfloridian]

6. Please note I don't do that.

I simply write about the outrageous education reforms and the fact that our party supports them.

[PurityOfEssence]

17. Most long-time participants of this board will tell you Obama's gotten a much easier ride than Dean

The constant sniveling about how mean we are to Obama is ludicrous beyond belief. Hero worship is a sickening thing, and those who demand that their personal opinion MUST have sway don't understand what pluralism is all about.

There are so very, very many here who INSTANTLY unrec and harass ANY post that smacks of criticism of our President, and they consider it not only their own personal due, but some kind of righteous act of upholding civilization itself. It matters naught what he does, the fact that he does it proves its validity. Certain posters also like to wield the "alert" button to further stifle all dissent, while doing things contrary to the spirit and word of the board rules on a regular basis.

Dean is a mixed bag, and even though he's MUCH more conservative than many seem to think, he's not afraid to sling some invective and piss some people off. For this, he's to be respected, especially in contrast to the accommodation bent of our President.

[ChiciB1]

20. +1000 And Dean May Change His Views, Which I Myself Have Done

too, HOWEVER my "core" Democratic values remain the same. Obama DID run on some specific issues and has either simply decided NOT to follow through, or he didn't really want to fight hard enough. For those of us who worked hard for him, even IF he wasn't our 1st choice, to say we're disappointed is just not enough!

When HE makes certain statements or promises, I have learned NOT to take it too seriously. I just "wait" to see what ACTUALLY gets done, OR NOT!
:shrug:

[ProSense]

4. “I supported (ramping up troop presence)...

He is careful not to frame his argument as an attack on the White House, insisting he supports the president even though "we're going to disagree sometimes on policy." But Dean’s combative rhetoric marks a return to the passionate liberalism that many on the left have missed in recent months, as the hope-and-change candidate of 2008 has gotten bogged down in the pragmatic business of running the country. With Obama pursuing neocon-esque military actions, and cutting deals with Congressional Republicans on fiscal issues, a newly emboldened Dean could effectively lead a much-needed pep rally in the Democratic Party.

This article is a mess, especially since Dean did an interview supporting Medicaid block grants.

From the OP article:

“I supported (ramping up troop presence) because I was concerned with what would happen to the women in the country” if the Taliban took control, Dean said. “But I recently read about Karzai saying some very sexist, terrible things, and it’s become obvious that there’s not a whole lot of difference between the two sides.”

He continued: “As much as I feel terrible about what’s happening to the women there, Karzai has shown he can’t be trusted any more than the Taliban to help them.”

Dean didn’t specify what Karzai had done to draw such sharp criticism, but the prime minister has taken heat recently from women’s rights advocates, who say he’s bending to Taliban pressure at the expense of the country’s women.

<...>

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

9. Do what:

point out the absurdity in the article?

[madfloridian]

11. A Democrat finally speaks out on the absurdity of trying to conquer...

a massive country like Afghanistan, which brought the Soviet Union to their knees financially.

Finally, and not loudly enough, but it is a start.

He should have spoken out sooner and louder, but others should have also.

It is not always necessary or good to throw cold water on everything.

[ProSense]

12. "A Democrat finally..." Oh please,

The DNC Wants Out of Afghanistan

No one said anything about Dean speaking out against ending the war in Afghanistan.

That has nothing to do with the absurd implications and statement in the article.

[madfloridian]

13. Thank you.

You made my point for me.

[ProSense]

14. "You made my point for me. "

You had a point?

[PurityOfEssence]

19. Yes, it's a simple litmus test for whether something's good or not: whether Barack Obama does it

The problem is that he's for AND against so very many things.

Then again, the solution is still quite simple: whatever he's doing NOW is the correct and "good" thing.

It's very simple to put all faith in an individual; one needs no particular morals or sense of right-and-wrong at all. All one needs to do is see what the hero is doing, and that's what's good.

What's bad is anything anyone says that criticizes this person's actions, because pristine truth and goodness can only be questioned by fools and knaves. Regardless of the law, regardless of ethics and personal statements, the momentary tactical action is to be lauded no end. There's really no need to have any morality at all: the dear leader knows all, and we should all bow before his grandeur. Why bother thinking or having the least tinge of curiosity? Sublimity has been found, and all that remains is to purge the fiends who would take away such glorious bliss with their piddly dissent.

Allegiance to an individual is facile, and anyone with a scrap of sense knows this.

[former9thward]

5. We need to leave Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

And if we ever leave Iraq we must not allow the State Department to double their "staff" in Baghdad by 8,000 which they say they are going to do. http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/04/02-0

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Now, if Obama will come around to admitting that his "necessary" war is a flop..

and get the hell out of all 3 of them..then he can start talking about how he can start cutting the deficit.

[KoKo]

10. A bit of a "shot across the bow."

I read the article earlier and thought...hmmm. Is he throwing this out there to get Obama's attention to our growing intervention in Libya?

Could Dean be a challenger for 2012 if Obama persists in Libya? Dean has colored his hair. I wondered about why he'd color his hair when I saw him on MSNBC a couple weeks ago unless something was up with him and he felt he wanted a "younger" image. Dean has never struck me as they kind of guy who cared what he looked like before now.

It would be interesting.

[bvar22]

15. Dean is a true Moderate/Centrist,

but standing alongside the current Democratic Party Leadership,
he sounds like a Radical Leftist.


Maybe he should be Drug Tested for saying out loud what we have all known for almost 10 years.

Meet Hamid Karzai
or as President Obama calls him, "The Government of Afghanistan".

He was appointed by Bush the Lesser to run Afghanistan.
He is one of the most despicable criminals in The World,
But NOW we like him so much
that our children are fighting and dying in the deserts of Afghanistan to keep him in power.



If you are not FOR the New Libyan WAR,
then you are WITH The Communists AlQaeda Saddam The Terrorists Qaddafi!!!

[madfloridian]

21. Here in 2003..

we were discussing such issues as Karzai already. We are ahead of the game, and our leaders should be catching up by now.

[xchrom]

16. Good. Nt

[bvar22]

18. Thank You, MadFlo.

A K&R from me.
:patriot:

[Ramulux]

22. About time

[madfloridian]

23. Yes, it's not enough and it's way late....but at least he said it.

We need more speaking out instead of trying to support the leadership when it is doing things that are wrong.

I keep waiting for Democrats to stand up for public education, but I don't think they understand yet how quickly it is being dismantled.

[madfloridian]

24. I'm kind of glad I posted this.

It is now verified to me that extreme care must be exercised. :shrug: