YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:42 PM
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I have a confession. I am a socialist. |
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:wtf: is the big deal? I think everyone is equal, I think everyone should get health care as a right, and I believe the rich should be taxed more than the middle class. I believe in collective bargaining. :shrug: Oh, and I believe capitalism causes more harm than good. And the people who are the most conservative are usually the most "Christian", which means they believe in Christ. And according to what I've read in the bible, greed and capitalism are pretty much sins. Discuss. Oh, this should be fun!
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white_wolf
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:43 PM
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1. Hello. Welcome to the club. |
bbinacan
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:44 PM
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Drale
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:44 PM
Response to Original message |
3. I enjoy when tea baggers call me a socialist like its a curse |
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and I thank them. Sometimes I think their heads are going to explode trying to work it out.
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Shiver
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message |
YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:47 PM
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Shiver
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
35. A fake real religion. |
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Confusion is the natural state of the universe. The problems of the world arise when mankind attempts to force order upon it. Take a look at the http://www.principiadiscordia.com/">Principia Discordia and let me know if you get the joke. "The human race will begin solving it's problems on the day that it ceases taking itself so seriously."Fnord?
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Billy Burnett
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:47 PM
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6. Just don't promote ant socialist candidates here. |
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Or you'll get TSed.
:toast:
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inna
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:47 PM
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7. no big deal, at all. many of us are socialists - at least, by beliefs, if not card-carrying ones.nt |
Imajika
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:48 PM
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8. What type of socialism? |
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What is your model?
Democratic socialists countries like in parts of Western Europe? Or more hard line socialist countries like Cuba?
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Buzz Clik
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:49 PM
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9. Socialists are more fun when they refraine from calling those who disagree with them "corporatists" |
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Beyond that, I have no problem with them.
Some of my best friends are socialists, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one.
You don't have to worry about socialists moving in next door because they don't believe in ownership of property.
The most dangerous person in the world is a socialist with a credit card.
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inna
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:52 PM
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11. "socialists don't believe in ownership of property" - it's a myth. |
Buzz Clik
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:54 PM
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12. Here's another myth that needs to be dispelled: |
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My post was serious.
:eyes:
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inna
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:55 PM
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14. lol, sorry then! you certainly got me. |
Buzz Clik
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:01 PM
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inna
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:04 PM
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26. i take it as a compliment :) |
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"You're a good sport." - mutual. :)
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white_wolf
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
white_wolf
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
13. There is a section of the Manifesto where Marx addresses this |
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I'll try and find it later and post it. Anyway Socialists (and I mean hardline Marxists) are fine with personal property such as houses, tvs, cars, etc. What we are not fine with is private property as in the means of production being privately owned.
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Buzz Clik
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:03 PM
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23. Well, white_wolf, I was kidding about that. However, .... |
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... I see that it prompted you to start a new thread on the subject. I will definitely read it and be educated.
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Curmudgeoness
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:55 PM
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15. Since when do socialists not believe in owning property? |
YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
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:shrug: So I'm NOT a socialist? Damn.
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Odin2005
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
25. EDIT, didn't realize the post was a joke. |
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Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 08:05 PM by Odin2005
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Buzz Clik
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
readmoreoften
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
53. Your post is dealing with a strawman socialist. |
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1) "Corporatist" is a liberal term meaning capitalist for those who are too timid to directly call capitalism what it is, or who think that there is good "healthy" capitalism as opposed to pathological "corporatism".
2) Socialists believe in personal property, just not privatization. Everyone isn't going to share the same toothbrush or underwear, that's not the point. But we will collectively own the water and the oil reserves.
3) Whether or not they are moralizing idealists depends on whether they are from the utopian socialist tradition, like Saint Simon, or the Marxist materialist tradition. A utopian socialist might blame capitalism on "greedy people" but a Marxist knows that greed is an epiphenomenon produced by the system itself. For that reason, "good capitalists or bad capitalists" can not exist. If capitalists want to survive as capitalists and not fall into the working class, they'll have to behave according to the profit motive. It has nothing to do with morality.
4) Your comment "socialist with a credit card" seems like a lighthearted jab at the "hypocrisy" of a socialist participating in the capitalist system as a consumer. But most socialists, other than the anarchosocialists, don't advocate for moralistically dropping out of society because that doesn't change a damn thing. Having or not having a credit card, or other boycott behaviors are also not socialist methods of revolt. They are liberal methods of revolt. Socialists--the materialist kind at least--advocate for disruption at the level of production not consumption. Strikes not "personally remaining pure by refusing to have a credit card."
A socialist with a credit card isn't dangerous. They're just like every other shlub with a credit card: in debt to a system that openly abandoned the working class a few decades ago.
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socialist_n_TN
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
61. RE: Your last paragraph...... |
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In one sense, I'm kind of glad that the system relies so much on credit. It means the working class has one more weapon in the arsenal to use AGAINST the capitalists when the time comes.
It used to be that the only weapon we had, non-violently, was the withholding of our labor, i.e., strike. Now since so much of the capitalist infrastructure is built on credit, we can ALSO withhold our money on the debt we've rung up. Couple those two weapons and, IF we were organized, we actually could come close to bringing the whole of capitalism down WITHOUT A SHOT BEING FIRED.
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readmoreoften
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
54. Sorry, didn't realize the post was a joke. |
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It's about par for the course of what I hear. Unfortunately, your humor is a bit too dry to not warrant the ol' drippy blood tag. ;)
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Terra Alta
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message |
10. I'm a socialist, too. |
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I believe the rich should be taxed 50% at least, and the richest of the rich taxed at 75%. I believe every American ought to have access to affordable health care, food, and shelter. And if that means giving food stamps to everyone, then so be it. No one in this country should go to bed hungry.
Jesus Christ was a socialist. If conservative Christians actually read the Gospels - the entire Gospels, not just what they like - they would realize that.
It amazes me when Repukes say Obama is a socialist. God, if only that were true.
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YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
22. I love you, Terra Alta. |
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I say that same stuff ALL THE TIME!
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cordelia
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:18 PM
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OwnedByFerrets
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:57 PM
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16. If its good enough for Bernie Sanders, its good enough for ME |
madinmaryland
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:58 PM
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17. This is HUGH! I am a Socalist also!! |
bullimiami
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Mon Apr-18-11 07:58 PM
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Curmudgeoness
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:00 PM
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20. It is no big deal, at least not to me. |
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I also believe that essential industries should be government run instead of profit driven.
I believe that a nation's natural resources belong to the nation, not to the highest bidder.
I believe that all people should have access to life's essentials like health care, a place to live, enough food, a good education.
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YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
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You should have to mortgage your home to send your kids to college. And you shouldn't have to work your ass off for food, shelter and health care. We should all work together for the greater good. What the hell is wrong with these people who think it's OK that a nation as rich as ours has children in it who go to bed hungry every night?! Pisses me OFF.
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Curmudgeoness
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:10 PM
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32. Glad you are out of the closet. Pisses a lot of us off. nt |
ejpoeta
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:12 PM
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43. as long as it isn't them or their children, then it's all good. |
Odin2005
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:03 PM
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Lydia Leftcoast
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:07 PM
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30. I have gradually come to realize that I am a Socialist, too, |
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although a Democratic one as in Scandinavia.
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YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:10 PM
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31. I am a Democratic one as well. |
vim876
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message |
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Oops. I mean I'm a socialist.
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socialist_n_TN
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
46. Welcome to DU comrade....... |
madrchsod
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:21 PM
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34. i knew that the first time i saw- yellowrubberduckie -on the DU... |
YellowRubberDuckie
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
geckosfeet
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:45 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Mon Apr-18-11 08:46 PM by geckosfeet
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Kceres
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:55 PM
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38. Maybe there is a socialistunderground? I'd join. Youbetcha. |
white_wolf
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Mon Apr-18-11 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
39. You do realize this is a forum for democrats and other progressives? |
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Socialist fall into the "other progressives" category.
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a la izquierda
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:01 PM
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40. No worries, there are a bunch here. |
jwirr
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:04 PM
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41. The book of Acts in the Bible is where I first decided to be a socialist. nt |
Zax2me
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:07 PM
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42. The thing is, your ideas won't work here. |
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Well, they could, but not now with capitalist laws and culture en-grained within every pore of our society. The same reason people get disappointed with Obama. It's not like he is not a progressive - he just can't implement a progressive agenda into an active capitalist society. Not at a pace many would require to still support him. Which is why I doubt it will ever happen.
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unkachuck
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message |
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....Socialism, the ultimate in family values!
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socialist_n_TN
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:34 PM
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45. Welcome comrade! You secret decoder ring........ |
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is in the mail! :rofl:
Seriously though there ARE a lot of us (and elsewhere in the country) on here and there's more every day. This very board has gone from about 30%/40% socialist of one stripe or another when I first started posting to 60% or so. And that's in just a year and a half.
I think it's the overreach by the RW myself. The BEST recruiter for socialism is a capitalist.
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Courtesy Flush
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Mon Apr-18-11 09:41 PM
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47. Jesus said sell all your belongings and give to the poor |
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I'm not sure how that squares with the greed they're preaching these days.
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martymar64
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Mon Apr-18-11 10:50 PM
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48. So am I . . . and proud of it! |
donheld
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Mon Apr-18-11 10:56 PM
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applegrove
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Mon Apr-18-11 11:58 PM
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50. I agree with your first paragraph. But I don't think that is what makes you a socialist. |
Critters2
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Tue Apr-19-11 12:07 AM
Response to Original message |
51. I am, too. Card-carrying, dues-paying member of both Democratic Socialists of America |
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and Social Democrats USA.
It's less scary to admit to being bisexual than socialist in this country, in my experience.
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Modern_Matthew
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #51 |
55. Been thinking about joining DSA... couple of questions: |
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You actually get a card?
What else do you get? Some kind of privileged access to a forum or other member portal on their site?
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Critters2
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Tue Apr-19-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
60. Don't get an actual card with DSA. |
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Do get one with SDUSA. Also had one with SPUSA when I belonged to that.
With DSA, you get their really well-done newsletter, Democratic Left, and membership in your local, and the opportunity to attend larger meetings. I'm 90 miles from my local, so don't get to many things, but I like to support 'em financially. Dues for DSA are way cheaper than SDUSA.
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Jack Sprat
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Tue Apr-19-11 12:23 AM
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52. I have become a socialist myself now that I have |
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seen all the ugliness that capitalism has become. And it is getting worse all the time as the socialist safety nets fall. Not only that, but I can see how capitalism manages to consume everything including democracy. Capitalism and communism seem to have an end result very similar, in that the people who run these economies live great in the minority in charge. The great majority of the population lives in poverty by contrast, and they have no political means of doing anything about it short of revolution. A socialist democracy would be my dream of a new America.
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Name removed
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Tue Apr-19-11 02:19 AM
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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upi402
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Tue Apr-19-11 02:55 AM
Response to Original message |
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We can be "Jesus & Pals - the godless commies".:grouphug: awwww
I'm still a Democrat. The Dems have moved to Goldwater Republicanism, and the Repukes are fascists.
By standing still, I've run to the far left?
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libmom74
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Tue Apr-19-11 03:12 AM
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58. I confess that I am too. |
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Socialism is the most humane system and I believe more democratic. Our current form of laissez faire free market capitalism is antithetical to democracy.
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eallen
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Tue Apr-19-11 11:21 AM
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59. I'm a liberal. I believe capitalism is absolutely necessary. |
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Yes, the rich should be taxed more. Yes, we should move to a single-payer health system. Yes, we should spend more on education and research.
But if you want all that, you have to have an economy that generates the wealth to pay for it. And no nation has figured out a way to do that without capitalism. From Sweden to China, from Canada to France, the rich nations all provide a route for entrepreneurial ownership, all have private companies, and all feature equity markets. I.e., capitalism.
Yes, capitalism has its problems. Yes, companies need to be regulated in areas from pollution to worker safety. But eliminate capitalism, because it "causes more harm than good"? We'e seen the results of that. I'll stay a liberal, in favor of capitalism.
:hippie:
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dawg
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
BOG PERSON
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:13 PM
Response to Original message |
62. i have a confession too |
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i'm an alcoholic. i am not a dependable person.
wow! that's a load off my chest. thanks for listening.
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white_wolf
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:20 PM
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65. I wonder what percentage of this site considers themselves |
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socialist. Someone should make a poll.
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socialist_n_TN
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
69. The last one I did on this very subject showed.......... |
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70% considered themselves socialist of one stripe or another.
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dawg
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:21 PM
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66. greed is a sin - capitalism is not |
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If I own the means of production, I'm entitled to a reasonable return on my investment. If I provide you with the tools and facilities with which you do your job, I deserve to be paid for that.
Likewise, to the extent I provide management services to arrange work, provide supplies and raw materials, and sell the finished product, I deserve fair compensation for my time, energy, and skills.
The problem arises when I, as an owner, start demanding more than my fair share. Growing fabulously wealthy from the efforts of others is immoral. But that isn't a problem with capitalism. It's a problem with many individual capitalists.
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white_wolf
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #66 |
71. Could it not be argued that is the the kind of people |
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who capitalism attracts and the ones most likely to succeed?
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dawg
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:52 PM
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73. Yes, and that is why we need government regulation. |
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Unregulated capitalism devolves into an exploitative mess and eventually destroys itself.
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Tierra_y_Libertad
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:27 PM
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67. I told the XO of the squadron I was in, in the marines, I was a Marxist. |
Cascadian
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:32 PM
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68. I am a Democratic Socialist with Libertarian and Green leanings |
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Try to top that one! There's nothing wrong with being an idealist in politics! John (The Cascadian is back!)
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white_wolf
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #68 |
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Now on to the different subject of strange parties how about the Libertarian-National-Socialist-Green-Party. I can't decide if they are real or a joke.
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Cascadian
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Tue Apr-19-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
72. I've seen that website. |
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I think it's a parody. John (The Cascadian is back!)
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