We're pretty well totally fucked

[MannyGoldstein]

I've been assessing this over the past few days.

One party wants to give all of the working people's money to the wealthy; the other party is insane, and also wants to give all of the working people's money to the wealthy. Most Americans watch dozens of hours of blather on the tube each week and don't know squat - I believe that less than half of Americans could name the vice president a few years back. What used to be the Democratic intelligentsia is cheerleading new wars and spending cuts on the most vulnerable - they can't even figure out that Social Security's "solvency problems" are an unmitigated load of shit created by cooked numbers.

Seems like the parasites are about to kill a horribly-weakened host. I'm not seeing a realistic way forward here that ends well.

Please: someone give me something to be optimistic about.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[Skip_In_Boulder]

3. Sorry, can't argue with you. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. How about being optimistic about our new SC Justices?

Both of them young, smart, female, essentially liberal...

That means something good to me.

I hear ya, though...

:hug:

[raccoon]

42. Thank you, Miss Peggy, in these times we need all the optimism we can get.

But yeah, most of the time I feel like the OP does.

:hi:

[Donnachaidh]

47. and outnumbered by rw nutbags n/t

[moondust]

5. Here's one.

Wisconsin awakening.

[BlueJac]

78. But cheaters win

[Generic Other]

137. And teaching the rest of us how it's done

Everyday, someone wakes from the trance--One zombie at a time.

[aquart]

6. Oh, good grief. Fukushima, mon amour.

We really have much bigger fish to fry. Or should I say boil in radiation drenched water?

[TheMadMonk]

14. Or looked at in the light of US disaster management responses...

...around the world, Fukushima is just one more piece of what the OP is legitimately bitching about.

We all take note of it at the time, the way the US seems to manage to repeatedly interfere enormously with immediate mittigation efforts after events like Katrina and Haiti. Add that to the deliberate formenting of strife in South America, The Middle East and increasingly now (a-fucking-gain) in Africa.

And then once the disaster is fully advanced, America steps in to save the day by buying up assets at pennies on the dollar, displacing "undesirables" (ie the poor), building high rises and resorts. And enriching the actual victims with corugated iron shantytowns in Sri-Lanka; toxic trailerparks after Katrina; tent cities riddled with Cholera in Haiti.

Even Fukushima:- The American warships which took off like cut cats could easily have been in the bay feeding power to the then still operational cooling systems of the reactors. So why weren't they? How long until the insulting offers begin in the tsunami and earthquake affected areas, while everyone's attention is on this mess? And want to bet there'll be even more insulting offers on the land affected by the plants themselves, which if nothing else could relatively easily be rehabilitated for industrial purposes?

[pecwae]

24. Yeah, that.

I watched "On The Beach" last night and am depressed as hell.

[CoffeeCat]

65. Oh shyte! Can I get you something....glass of wine?

...box of dark chocolates? A fuzzy blankey?

I can't watch OTB. Not with everything happening right now.

I'm still reeling from watching "The International" last night.

[pecwae]

72. Thanks for the offer.

I'm going to have a couple of glasses of Shiraz tonight and watch something absolutely benign. The two of us need to censor our movie watching habits in this day and age.

[CoffeeCat]

140. Seriously...

I'm thinking that I need to watch something that is not just funny--but ultra-zany--like "What's Up Doc"
or "The Hangover".

With wine of course... :D

[aquart]

143. Rule One: NEVER watch On The Beach.

[gateley]

97. I think that's too much for most people to wrap their heads around -- including

Obama, I'm sorry to say. But you're right, everything pales by comparison, although that doesn't negate the non-radioactivity hells people are currently going through here. Can't be either/or -- got to keep on top of it all.

And if nothing happens, at least I'll die knowing that we tried, and that we didn't give up.

[Generic Other]

138. When you mention it to people you see fear in their eyes

They beg you for reassurance. Something positive. All I can say is that if you get cancer it takes twenty years or so to develop. Doesn't seem to comfort anyone when I say this.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

8. Ammuntion is relatively cheap.

You have time to move somewhere and learn to grow your own potatoes.

Goats are a miracle of industry, milk and meat.

You are right. It might be a time to move on as best we can.

[bertman]

93. Can't argue with any of that, cliffordu.

[Jackpine Radical]

112. Does this indicate some sort of sea change in you?

[cliffordu]

132. Nope -

[Generic Other]

139. But where is that safe harbor where goats are not giving milk with radiation?

Where is that place that is ours where we can live off the land and survive? I fear the only thing I will ever own outright is a burial plot.

[cliffordu]

144. I'm in the same boat.

[Orrex]

9. Well, when I dropped my toast on the floor today, it landed butter side up

If that's not cause for celebration, I'd like to know what the hell is.

[BlueJac]

79. Just lucky..........

but the country is going butter side down, faceplant

[Tesha]

85. Yes, but to keep the universe in balance, somewhere a cat fell and *DID NOT* land on its feet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox

Tesha

[madmax]

10. If what Rachel was talking about today that is

happening in Michigan and what we know is happening in Wisconsin I agree, we're fucked. Fascism is on the march.

This power grab is Wisconsin is really disturbing add the land grab to take over a Benton Park by the owner of Whirlpool to built mansions and a Jack Nicklaus golf course. I mean WTF! WTF WTF

[wtmusic]

11. Obama is going to address the deficit with "spending cuts in the tax code"

He said the "T" word. It's a start.

[Initech]

12. I'm getting really sick of reading about these CEO parasites.

They're like viruses - they feed off the host by killing off all the weak (aka laying off the workers) and then they get all the good stuff (read: money) for themselves. I just read something about Borders - the company is bankrupt, they closed half their stores and their executives are getting nearly $12 mil in bonuses for themselves. It's getting to be fucking revolting. :grr:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mountainlion55]

17. yes

Bless thee sacred plant.

[Phlem]

22. Dude

I got beat to hell around here using that word.

Glad to see you can get away with it!

:toast:

-p

[sendero]

26. It sounded unnecessarily mean..

... a year or two ago, now it is inarguably apt.

[OnyxCollie]

15. You correctly described the situation.

Be optimistic about that. Most people don't know what the hell is going on. They only know they're getting screwed over.

Of course, ignorance is bliss and awareness is a bitch.

[mountainlion55]

16. Agree 100%

Screwed blue and tattooed. Don't even get a wrap around!

[stevedeshazer]

18. Check out this really cute puppy

:sigh:

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Dammit.

[L0oniX]

82. ...and this too...

[Ramulux]

19. At least you understand

There are still a lot of democrats who actually think the democratic party is on their side. All you can do is keep telling the truth, as hard and as annoying as it might be.

Just remember, time and demographics are on our side. As young people and minorities come to represent a much larger percentage of our population the republicans and their extremism will no longer be relevant. The real battle of the 21st century will be between progressivism and neo-liberalism and will take place between candidates in the democratic party.

The best thing you could do is donate to progressive PAC's like the PCCC(Progressive Change Campaign Committee) and DFA(Democracy for America) and work to help nominate progressives for local office.

[travelingtypist]

20. If it gets bad enough, the bread and circuses won't work anymore.

Wisconsin will be repeated all over the country and we can get some "real Democrats" elected. There will be pitchforks and torches as the parasites are removed.

[MilesColtrane]

21. "Please: someone give me something to be optimistic about."

The Texas Rangers have twice as many wins as the Red Sox.

(You are a Rangers fan, aren't you?}

[defendandprotect]

23. Wait until the public figures out Global Warming -- !!!!

[CoffeeCat]

66. Oy vey! When exactly will that be?

When people vacation in Iowa...to enjoy the beautiful ocean and beaches?

Even then, Limbaugh will be on the radio--claiming that climate change is inevitable and normal--and just
look at what it's done for the Iowa tourism economy!

grrrr...

[trud]

108. when the coasts are under water and the midwest is a dust bowl. n/t

[Overseas]

142. How sad that this anniversary of the BP Transocean Halliburton Deep Water Horizon Disaster

will not be regarded as a serious solemn occasion to reflect on our reckless practices in search of more and more oil.

And a chance to celebrate the alternatives that we have in place and are expanding, through our million jobs program to rebuild our infrastructure with green technologies.

[kentuck]

25. Squirrel !?

Where?

[sendero]

27. All of that is on top of the fact..

... that the Fed has backed the economy into a corner with no exit. They can't stop printing money or everything crashes, they cannot keep printing money or the dollar crashes.

The only way this country has gotten away with the insane levels of debt we now have is the fact that we are the world's "reserve currency". That is under attack as more and more oil producers don't want to be paid in dollars any more.

The housing market is dead still and it will be for years. Jobs, despite the occasional statistical uptick, are going nowhere either. Wall street has been "saved" but the people who produce the capital they siphon off are on life support, and the silly things Obama has done to help so far are laughable.

The EU is hanging by a thread as yet another country said "no" (Finland) to bailing out countries that spent like drunken sailors and on top of the others that are starting to balk at the whole deal they threaten to bring the whole thing down to massive defaults. Of course, the whole game here is to save the banks' bad investments in these countries by letting the taxpayers foot the bill. Europeans are by and large not as gullible as Americans and they are not buying it hook line and sinker like the dumbass hoi polloi in this country.

We truly live in interesting times.

[mmonk]

28. They know.

It's why I'm considering registering independent. Independents are allowed to vote in primaries now where I live.

[DCBob]

29. How about the likelihood that you are completely wrong..

BTw, are you capable of being optimistic? You could turn a gift of gold into a box of rocks.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. I hope I'm completely wrong

You'll find this hard to believe, but my latest annual appraisal at work pointed out my optimism and "can-do" attitude as being among my top strengths. I don't think that was faint praise: I also got one of the highest raises in the company.

But there's a line between optimism and pollyanaism.

[DCBob]

76. Manny, to be honest you may be right on some accounts..

but I desperately hope and believe you are not. I dont think I am "polyannish" at all. I could probably cite a dozen plausible scenarios of worldwide calamity resulting in the collapse of civilization but what's the point of dwelling on that? If we are truly fucked then what's the point of even getting out of bed every morning. I choose to be optimistic.

[MannyGoldstein]

106. Not to be too dramatic, but: Ever been to Dachau?

Or any other concentration or death camp?

Some folks had the good sense to get out of Germany while the getting was good. Others thought it was a passing phase.

FWIW, I've studied that part of German (and US) history a bit. Will we end up with FDR or Hitler? We have neither right now, but things will change.

[COLGATE4]

114. Manny - was as Dachau years ago and it's never left me. (My

relatives were 'handled' by the oh-so-efficient Einsatzgruppen), and I get your point. Unfortunately I share your belief that we are in a very dangerous transitional period where the vast majority entertains itself with Lada Gaga's newest album cover, the vocal minority demands that our President 'PROVE HE'S A 'MURKAN, GODDAMIT' and the rest of us swing between believing that 'we are all good Germans, after all and nothing bad will happen to us' and the few who want to get the hell out of Dodge while they still can. I wish I could say something to allay your profound pessimism, but I'm afraid I can't. I share it.

[MannyGoldstein]

120. Dachau totally blew my mind

Take a commuter train from Munich, a short ride to the upscale town of Dauchau. Lovely buildings, nice shops, BMWs and a concentration camp.

Blew my mind 25 years ago when I first went. The Holocaust wasn't out in the woods - it was right in the open.

[DCBob]

124. No but I have been to the Holocaust museum.. I know not the same thing but it did freak me out..

I will never forget it. That was the ugliest part of our human history. We can never ever let it happen again.

[Leftist Agitator]

39. A gift of gold IS a box of rocks...

[CoffeeCat]

67. Always after me lucky charms....(nt)

[trud]

109. DCBob

How is he wrong. I am all ears. It looks like the decline and fall of the Roman empire to me, plus we're taking the planet down with us.
Obama could have done a lot of good, but he's Bush III.

[cali]

30. Why do you feel compelled to write the same

op over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and etc.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Why do you care? And do you disagree?

Guess who said the following, and in what context:

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

[Jakes Progress]

36. Boy. What a cogent, carefully thought out reply.

Please insert the sarcasm smilie of your choice.

Why do you feel compelled to write in reply when you have nothing to say? Do you mean to say that you find things peachy? You are optimistic about the way things are going?

[JVS]

62. Has the situation changed enough to justify a different OP?

[liberalhistorian]

86. Why do you feel compelled

to call out a poster for doing the same thing that you do over and over and over and over again?

[SidDithers]

32. Unrec...

I think your assessments are without merit.

Sid

[MannyGoldstein]

35. Can you be specific?

What data can you point to that knocks down my hypothesis? I'm looking for things like "The percentage of the work force that is employed is getting better" rather than "Congress passed a bill that will...".

I did see some cause for a wee bit optimism this morning: the Tea Partiers are flagging: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#42654141

[SidDithers]

46. I was specefic upthread, but it ws deleted...

Your "assessment" expressed in the "If you could reverse ONE election outcome, which would it be?" thread has coloured my opinion of everything you now post.

Sid

[MissDeeds]

90. You've got my rec, Manny

Your op speaks for me.

K&R

[Jakes Progress]

37. And I thing your reply is without thought.

Or merit.

You know - pointless.

[bvar22]

60. +1

:patriot:

[Thunderstruck]

51. I cancelled your ostentatiously pretentious unrec.

[SidDithers]

52. Ain't democracy grand...nt

Sid

[Jakes Progress]

74. How would we know what that was like?

[Search4Justice]

34. You said it all with this line:

"One party wants to give all of the working people's money to the wealthy; the other party is insane, and also wants to give all of the working people's money to the wealthy."

What comes next, it that of which no one wants to speak.

[OwnedByFerrets]

38. Reluctantly K and R

[Robb]

40. LOL

"Most Americans watch dozens of hours of blather on the tube each week and don't know squat...."

Well, be optimistic! Since you're clearly convinced how much smarter you are than most Americans, surely they will rally to whatever banner it is you're unfurling here, right? I mean, Dale Carnegie's first step is telling people they're idiots, right? :rofl:

[MannyGoldstein]

41. Let's give participation ribbons to the Tea Partiers

Got it.

[Robb]

44. The Tea Party organizers claim to support the working class

... Yet in private call them idiots. Your post here seems to do the same thing, only overtly.

I don't understand how you'll be any more or less successful with this approach, although the irony isn't lost on me.

[liberation]

80. The teabaggers are the gift that keeps on giving...

... how else would those false analogies be made otherwise.

[OnyxCollie]

50. Converse: The nature of belief systems in mass publics

http://wikisum.com/w/Converse:_The_nature_of_belief_systems_in_mass_publics

In Brief

A great majority of people neither adhere to a full, complete set of beliefs which produces a clear ideology nor do they have a clear grasp of what ideology is. This is measured by a lack of coherence in responses to open-ended questions. Ideology of elites is not mirrored by the masses and voter revolt to a political party does not reflect ideological shifts.

Converse analyzes open-ended interview questions to measure conceptualization of ideology. He concludes that the liberal-conservative continuum is a high level abstraction not typically used by the man in the street because of response instability and lack of connections made between answers. There is no underlying belief structure for most people, just a bunch of random opinions. Even on highly controversial, well-publicized issues, large portions of the electorate do not have coherent opinions. In fact, many simply answer survey questions as though they are flipping a coin.

Though some political sophisticates do structure their opinions in a larger ideological framework, such structure is rare. This level of political sophistication (one's "level of conceptualization") is correlated positively with the respondent's level of education, degree of political involvement, and amount of political information.

Key points: Most people do not have strong belief systems; that is, they do not think ideologically. A minority of people have fixed preferences and answer survey questions consistently, but most simply give random answers. Most people do not interpret politics through an ideological lens.

Thanks for pointing out how little you know, Robb. It makes your condescension and scolding easier to dismiss.

[Robb]

55. Struck a nerve, eh?

:D

Edited to add: Are you going to defend calling the working people idiots, while claiming to have their best interests in mind? Hint: don't. ;)

[OnyxCollie]

56. Yawn.

More scolding from the Defenders of the Status Quo.

[Robb]

59. Ah, so regular folks are boring, too?

Can't imagine why this hasn't caught on.

[Alcibiades]

145. OnyxCollie is correct to cite Converse in this context

You need to make a distinction between what is part of the party platform for voters and what we know from political science. Of course it's not desirable to tell voters that they are ignorant and make vote choices on an irrational basis, but we know empirically that this is true, at least for many voters, enough to provide the margin of victory in many elections.

It would be great if voters behaved according to the prescriptions of normative democratic theory, but that's not what we have seen. It's lamentable that more people don't know this: political science, as a discipline, has not been very good at disseminating what it has learned to the public, even to the most knowledgeable folks who might be interested. The article OnyxCollie cites is an old one, dating to 1964, but it's remarkable the extent to which Converse's findings have formed the basis for subsequent research, and how his central findings have largely been confirmed: this is all the more remarkable given the extent to which there are many political scientists from diverse schools of thought who seem to desperately want this to be falsified. You can quibble over the numbers, but what Converse found has been very robust:

1. It is possible to create an ordinal ranking of the public by assessing their level of political knowledge.
2. There are some people at the top of the scale who seem to exhibit a consistent and ideological set of political behaviors. These ideological voters are fairly few in number.
3. There are a much larger number of people who are essentially "low-information voters," who know less about politics, and behave in ways that seem to be fairly random. This group is much larger than the former group.

For many people, this is a depressing finding. It should be noted, BTW, that while Converse does see the level of political information as correlated with education, he does not claim that it is determined by it: in fact, he specifically rejects the conclusion that his findings are the result of some ignorant "lumpenproletariat" that is incapable of knowing its own self interest or acting in ways that are consistent with what it believes.

Here's a good lit review on the subject of rationality and the electorate by Larry Bartels. As a side note, I recommend anything and everything Bartels has ever written--if nothing else, googling this up I found he he has a new book "Unequal Democracy: The Political Economy of the New Gilded Age", which I will have to pick up.

http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/how_stupid.pdf

My favorite joke about political scientists is that we study politics, but don't practice politics. I would like to think that the basic observation that most of the public is rather poorly informed is not entirely disheartening: it leaves room for activism. We also know that activism has an effect, that, for example, a well-run GOTV campaign can increase the turnout of your voters by as much as 10%.

[Alcibiades]

146. Good point

Also, see my response to Robb below.

The question here is whether the phenomenon of the low-information voter is simply a given, or whether it's possible through activism to activate, energize and educate the right part of the potential electorate. I believe that the latter is true, and that this means we have our work cut out for us. I also think it's possible that increased political polarization is a good thing for Democrats, as it will activate more potential voters and activists.

http://www.csupomona.edu/~smemerson/business318/AbramCulWarMythVSFIORINA.pdf

On edit: replaced broken link.

[truebrit71]

43. Watch 'Gasland', 'Inside Job' and 'Food inc' and you will realise just how right you are..

...

[L0oniX]

81. + a bazzillion

[dionysus]

45. bless your little heart.

[Lorien]

48. And bless yours, too.

:eyes:

[MrMickeysMom]

49. Okay, Manny.... I will

Do you have a local race people run for in whatever city/township/municipality you reside in?

The way I figure it, if you help start an investment of local candidates to represent you, it (begins) to put some control over how you live. You'd be surprised what one little community can voice, based on this.

[MannyGoldstein]

103. Actually... I live in one of the most Liberal areas in the country

Barney Frank is my Rep, for example. So I have local stuff to be optimistic about. If only we could secede!

[MrMickeysMom]

110. No Manny...

Don't contract... Don't do it.

You HAVE to endure the same thing WE do, and that will only make us come through it stronger and quicker.

You have to believe that. You really do.

[Poboy]

53. Your assesment is accurate. Take the needed precautions and prepare.

[Broderick]

54. Something optimistic?

Sure, it is only 2011, and the end of the world is still likely a full year away... :)

[demwing]

57. Here is something to be optimistic about - "Change"

not as a campaign slogan, but as a force that's been around longer than our political systems, our country, our plans, our greed, and even our species.

Tomorrow, the tide will come in, and could bring in anything. Look around - everything that you see now? In 50 years it will all have changed. In 100 years you wouldn't recognize the place. In 250 years, no one will care about the thinks we worry about, or even remember. Who were the Republicans? What was Al Qaeda?

No one will know. It won't matter a single bit.

I understand the immediacy of your post, but I don't agree. Thinks won't always get better, and they won't always get worse, either. The ONLY thing you can count on is that they won't stay the same...

[Canuckistanian]

102. How could you be so cruel?

People VOTED for change 2 years ago. They ain't gettin' it.

[upi402]

58. Your take on it

is the same as mine. I spend non-political time in good humor and generally have a very positive outlook.
The reality of no opposition to corporatism is the end of America as we knew it. We're disenfranchised and many here shoot down that message for the truth of it.

[RebelOne]

61. Well, one ray of hope is that if you are already

collecting social security and currently on Medicare (as I am), you won't be affected.

[bvar22]

63. I have found some "HOPE" for The World, Manny.

The Populist Reforms sweeping across South/Central America (and Unreported or Demonized by the US Media and Politicians from BOTH Parties)
gives me HOPE for The World.

"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales

FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.
Bolivian President Evo Morales sounds more like FDR than anyone in the Democratic Party Leadership.

VIVA Democracy!!!
I pray we get some here soon.
The Blue Print has been given to us by the People of Latin America.






Who will STAND UP and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
"By their WORKS you will know them,"
And by their WORKS they will be held accountable.

[Octafish]

64. We still got you, MannyGoldstein! And a whole lot more good people.

That means we still got a chance. Besides, if we give up, we'd be doing exactly what the sleazebuckets, crooks, gangsters, warmongers and traitors want us to do.

[Cascadian]

68. You're preaching to the Choir my friend! (n/t)

[goodnews]

69. Don't worry man....

We're all gonna die from radiation poisoning anyway. :hi:

[BeHereNow]

70. Hope is delusional at this point, so don't ask for it.

Seeing the world as it IS, rather than what we may hope for
the key to surviving what IS.
BHN

[sarcasmo]

75. +1

[ileus]

71. Gunowner rights are expanding.

[GeorgeGist]

73. If Obama had a vision of his place in history ...

he could have been the bookend to Ronald Reagan's Legacy.

[BlueJac]

77. WE are fucked............

the insane are in power!!!

[Autumn]

83. I don't think there is any reason to be optimistic,

so yeah we are pretty well fucked. The course we are on is unsustainable and none of the parasites give a flying fuck, they want the last drop of blood in our carcass.

[liberation]

84. Yes and no...

... we have always been fucked. This is nothing new, and not an exception, it has been the norm through human history.

Panic, dispair, stress, etc have been a constant for most people through the past 10,000 years of human civilization (at least). It is expected because most of our social systems are flawed and unstable and as such they are not sustainable. That is why empires rising and falling is such a constant through history, and why we should not expect ours to be any different.

Yes we have gone through much better, but also much much worse. The problematic nature of our systems continues because most people don't like change because they equate it to uncertainty (and uncertainty is tightly coupled with fear), and most change when it comes eventually is of a reactive nature. A reaction to a flawed system has a high probability of being wrong too. So besides the fucked up nature of the problem, there is the issue of the people in denial who prolong the problem, and those who have a purely reactive fix which ends up making the problem even more fucked up... so wether we want it or not we always with a clusterfuck in our hands.


I for one think that human evolution is fascinating, and we're actually witnessing it in real time right this very minute. Note that evolution for a self aware species like ours does not involve physiological adaptations as much as it does revolve around social/intellectual/technological developments. You can chose to be afraid or being fascinated by and active in the furthering of positive developments.

[ThoughtCriminal]

87. Well... Not TOTALLY...

Unless they have Bear Calvary.



Then yeah, pretty much.

[WildEyedLiberal]

88. Unrec because threads with titles like this are becoming a broken record at DU

"This is the end of America"

"We're fucked, folks"

"This is it. We're doomed"

Etc... and they ALL get 100+ recs, for saying the same exact thing, every single day. Not a one of them offers unique commentary or insight. Just the same old "Americans are stupid/the oligarchy has won/we're a third world country now" spiel. DU has really lost its way.

I really don't mean to single you out. Maybe this is the first such post you've made as an OP. It's more a commentary on the sad state of DU. Yeah, I get that we're in a pretty shitty place as a country, but these posts are not helping, and worse, they're not even adding anything new to the discussion. Perpetual despair gets pretty old.

[Turbineguy]

95. You're right.

Man does not live by discouragement alone. In fact there are lots of smart people working on this.

[neoralme]

89. You're right as rain, Manny. I have a realistic way forward and if

they touch my wife's social security, which she starts collecting next year, you'll get to read all about it in The Daily Newscrap all over the country. Keep the faith: the boomers will react as soon as they are threatened. And it won't be pretty.

[Blue-Jay]

91. DOOMED!

[harmonicon]

92. Sorry, I can't.

All I can say is all I've ever said: vote for those who you honestly think are best for the job, no matter what you think the political outcome may be. Leave the politics for the politicians (for some reason, everyone seems to think they're one of the many unqualified pundit analysts during every election instead of remembering that they're a citizen and a voter).

[Blue-Jay]

94. Are you trying to say that we can't huff & puff our way to Utopia?

Not even on the INTERNET!?!?

[harmonicon]

100. plenty sure try, don't they?

It just amazes me when there's an election or primary, and people on here (and other places, obviously) don't argue about the stances of a candidate, but about who they think can beat who in what state or county, and/or mention "strategic voting" to justify their abdication of free will in the service of a corporate media machine. I know that may sound extreme and overly-jaded, but I also remember someone genuinely being surprised during the last primary when I suggested that noone would ever know who the people really wanted as their candidate if everyone just voted based on polls and "strategy".

[gateley]

96. They're moving Bradley Manning to a medium security facility -- as a result of

public pressure. If we keep up the pressure on the other stuff, follow Wisconsin's (and others') lead and refuse to take it laying down, we CAN turn it around. The BIG GUYS have always been in power, but it hasn't always been this bad here, and there are many of us alive who remember the better times.

We can do it, Manny -- don't give up! :pals:

[MannyGoldstein]

104. That's great news about Manning, thanks.

He may (or may not) have done something very wrong, but nobody deserves mistreatment or worse.

[me b zola]

98. Wish I had optimism to share

...but i've been residing on the cusp of despair. Just know that you are not alone, and that eventually we will rise up to beat this monster down.

[AlbertCat]

99. Please: someone give me something to be optimistic about.

Hmmmm.... how about:


There are still regular flights to Denmark.

[leveymg]

101. The reason to be cheerful is that you still get a rec at DU for telling the awful truth. KNR

No matter how fuggin' ugly that truth may be.

[JDPriestly]

105. Manny, you are absolutely right. I can't think of anything to be optimistic about.

[DuaneBidoux]

107. They said that in France right before the guillotines were built.

Somebody's always fucked.

The question is who.

Ps: in case you didn't know, the peasants said "we're fucked."

[Demeter]

111. I can't. It's snowing

Sorry, Manny.

[bertman]

113. Got to agree with you Manny. Dick Durbin says we can't "rule out cuts" to

Social Security.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz nominated by the President to be head of the DNC.

Corporate shills and more corporate shills.

REC.

[krabigirl]

115. yes, we are.

[KurtNYC]

116. Eliot Spitzer is swinging for the fences

and he's got nothing to lose.

[alfredo]

117. Gary Busey was fired on The Apprentice?

[Blue-Jay]

118. To be honest, would YOU hire Gary Busey?

[alfredo]

121. He's been ill for many years. Poor sap.

[femrap]

119. Glee had a new

show on tonight....that's the only optimistic thing I can think of....

Seriously, the Mayans/Hopis see a HUGE CHANGE coming next year. The Competitive Paradigm will end. A Cooperative one will emerge. Basically, if you want to survive, you will COOPERATE.

That's good news.....IMHO.

We're getting close to the bottom...still a ways to go, but getting close.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

122. the Natalie Halloway movie is coming out soon

[Overseas]

123. Whoops. You asked for something positive. GOP cruelty and hypocrisy is much clearer now.

That's about all I've got.

But is the GOP cruelty just evident to the states now suffering under the 2010 crop of GOP Gov Czars? Seeing the large rallies day after day in Wisconsin and the other states being attacked by GOP dictators has been encouraging. I've been to local rallies out here in California in support of their efforts. I'm excited by the recall petitions succeeding here and there.

And national polls show that most of our fellow citizens do know we have a revenue problem and should let the BUSH tax cuts expire. But they should never have been extended in the first place. Our president could have created The Obama Tax Cut for the 95% of us that he did give a tax cut to. Put the GOP on the defensive-- will you or won't you vote to extend The Obama Tax Cuts for the middle class? And we all know it could have been a GREAT election issue for 2010 but our Democratic legislators were scared of the Citizens United decision made by the activist judges that they did not filibuster to prevent being nominated to our Supreme Court.

It was exciting to see Czar Scott Walker get his comeuppance at alleged criminal Darryl Issa's hearing in DC recently. That was quite exciting.

We need Czar Snyder to be called to D.C. for hearings so we can ask him about how his taking over control from Elected Officials in towns in Michigan supports the Republican value of states' rights and local control. How ripping up a park deeded to a town in perpetuity to build an exclusive golf course serves local control.

I'm kind of like you in that I'm generally a very positive person. I had beautiful dreams of how in 2008 after the GOP had blundered so royally and the Democrats were given a mandate by millions of voters and our country and planet faced emergencies, my Democrats would zoom in with the 21st Century FDR plan. They'd have pushed for Medicare for All because thousands were being evicted from their homes after Wall Street crashed the economy by gambling on fraudulent mortgage packages. They'd have put hundreds of thousands back to work because the GOP let our infrastructure crumble and we need help nationwide. Those projects would have included conservation and alternative energy because our country is slipping behind others in the worldwide race to dominate those markets. We would be hurting because the Bush Crash was very painful, but we would have been building a new future much more forcefully by now.

And the Democrats could even have been bipartisan at it-- but not with the current crop of modern GOP deceivers. They could have been bipartisan with what the GOP USED TO say it stood for-- fiscal responsibility and national security. We could have pushed the FDR update on those terms and would have been wildly popular in 2010. We could have seized the initiative and supported the fiscal responsibility and national security enhancements of our plans for all to see. The data is there.

But we didn't. So this little Pollyanna has been stunned and sad. I sometimes sign my posts in which I wish for my dear green dream "Pollyanna X." Still stunned that we let the party that always wanted to crush Democrats everywhere get so far into their plans with that very creepy and disorienting bipartisan posturing. Instead of a strong bipartisanship calling to the pre-Reagan GOP that had an ounce of care for the environment and the poor, we got excruciating and counter-productive compromising on some core values of our party, even though we knew by then that the main goal of the modern GOP was to crush the Democratic Party. Even though we knew their biggest fear was our most popular programs ushered in by FDR and that 90% of us have been waiting for FDR's Second Bill of Rights.

Sigh...

So here I am-- if we don't want to have GOP Czars take over every state in the union we'd better vote for more Democrats, and I do, except for the occasional local Green. But I do wish I hadn't been as optimistic about change and had moved abroad once the GOP had the Supreme Court appoint GWB.

[MannyGoldstein]

131. Excellent post, thank you! nt

[certainot]

125. are you a student? it is likely your local state uni broadcasts sports on RW radio- TELL THEM NO!

democracy doesn't work now because RW 1000 radio stations are completely ignored by thinking americans while they form the biggest soapbox the world has ever seen- a soapbox coordinated and fed by corporate think tank, reaching 50 mil a week, and effectively ignored by those it attacks the most until they see it later on fox and after it has become MSM reality.

that is an identifiable problem that HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED IN AN ORGANIZED WAY BY THE LEFT.

[Doctor_J]

130. These silly platitudes are counterproductive

your subject line is nonsense. A phone call from a sports fan is not going to have any effect on a station that receives huge money from the Cock brothers to broadcast lies.

I will agree with this: that is an identifiable problem that HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED IN AN ORGANIZED WAY BY THE LEFT.


But my way of dealing with it is, I would guess, much different than yours.

[certainot]

141. garbage- there is NO organized challenge at the moment and there are effective ways to do that

and since they're getting a near total free speech free ride avery little bit helps, even if it's just calling the station and screaming at the call screeners what fucking traitors they are for playing such a big part getting us into this disaster. or calling local sponsors.

my experience is the right's entire success the last 20 years is dependent on the fact that the left would rather stick their ipods in their ears and walk on by.

[themadstork]

126. We have the numbers

The oligarchs can be as greedy as they want; they're only hastening their own comeuppance. If they keep treating the masses like shit they'll find out what happens when the masses get pissed. Once it becomes clear that it's fuck or walk, live or die, and that they don't give a shit as to whether we die, it will be ugly.

[Doctor_J]

127. Unrec'ing - vanity thread, even though you're absolutely right

These replies of "be positive!!" without any specifics are horrifying and sickening. You people who insist that we just have to be patient or write more letters to the editor are nuttier than the teabaggers.

Edit: I'm disgusted we went down without a fight. Not a single hate radio or Fox Lies personality dispatched.

[MannyGoldstein]

129. Nah, it's a venting thread. I guess that you could make a case

that venting is a form of vanity.

In any case, seems to have hit a nerve.

[Alcibiades]

128. It was ever thus

I'll admit it seems grim: this is a middle-class society, and the US has done well when the middle class has been strong, and poorly whenever the elites (the real elites, not the ones the right likes to imagine exist) declare a new gilded age. It does seem as though there is a systematic program underway to suck every last dollar of capital out of the pockets of middle class Americans and into the black hole of the offshore accounts of the rich.

That being said, though, the last time this happened in earnest was the Great Depression. Things were far bleaker then, but it did eventually bring us an enduring democratic majority that built the programs that became the basis for the great expansion of the American middle class. Yes, for the time being, people are happy with bread and circuses, and are willing to tolerate a declining standard of living. And yet:

A. It's true that the easiest way to predict the future is to guess that future trends will continue.

B. It's also true that this is often wrong.

I am still hopeful. The long-term trends Texiera and Judis described in their 2002 "The Emerging Democratic Majority" have continued: 2010 was a fluke, a midterm election that was dominated by a highly motivated cadre of voters that was older, whiter and more rural than is remotely possible in future elections.

The most disturbing trend isn't the ignorance of the public, but the way everyone has become a pundit. 60 years ago, if you didn't know anything, you had the modesty to admit it. Now every jackass thinks their opinions are worthy of inclusion in the public sphere, mainly because they are less loony than what they see on the TV and hear on the radio.

[MannyGoldstein]

134. Thank you. I hope you're right. nt

[mdmc]

133. courage

everythin gonna be all right

[Jakes Progress]

135. For those who rag on this OP, check

this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x574947

Just one little reason to be of the same mindset as the OP.

[MannyGoldstein]

136. Thanks Jake

I know a guy from Switzerland - he can't believe we allow electronic voting. In Switzerland they use paper, nobody trusts electronics.