Still recovering after watching "The International"

[CoffeeCat]

Has anyone else watched "The International"? I wish a post-movie support group existed--after seeing it because
it was so raw and most likely depicted exactly how our world works.

For those who haven't seen it, Clive Owens plays an investigator who attempts to bust up a powerful bank.
The bank is funding billions in loans for small-arms weaponry that will be used to fight wars in Middle East
and third-world countries. When Owens asks the head of one of the defense companies why a bank would tie up
so much capital in small-arms purchases--he talks about how controlling debt means you control everything.

He gives this speech about banks and the slave-like relationships that form when people owe you money--whether
those in debt are entire countries or individuals with credit-card debt. Debt gives you control over people.

Ughhhh.

This powerful, ruthless cabal of people who can't be taken down made my stomach hurt. When the bank VP is in
custody and telling Owens that he will never get justice--because these corporations own the Justice Department,
the courts, law enforcement and the whole she-bang--truly a riveting moment. Because we all know it's true.

Is this really how our world works...and the current state of the world? I think it is.

Anyone else feel like they needed a shower after watching this movie?

[Donnachaidh]

1. Yes -- that movie scares the shit out of me

It certainly applies today.

[palm_to_forehead]

2. You needed a movie to tell you that?

Proverbs 22:7 was written several thousand years ago...

"The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender."

[dkf]

5. Credit cards are the devil.

[CoffeeCat]

8. Absolutely...credit cards are enslavement devices

Credit cards ensure enslavement, and they rob you of money. Credit-cards enable banks
to own you and your future.

Every month, you must pay "the man" and you end up paying added costs for everyday
purchases, which only drains your money into the coffers of these rich, evil, greedy
banks.

But just try to tell people that they can live without credit cards and their reaction
is like a child who was just told their candy is being taken away. The reaction is
visceral--just as these banks have planned it.

"I won't be able to make hotel reservations." Bullshit.

"But my FICO score will go down." Biggest load of bullshit EVER to dupe us into continued enslavement--living/dying by the FICO score.

"But I need my credit card to survive." Bullshit. You'd have more money in your pocket every month if you'd just stop.

"But I earn miles." Ok, great--but have you checked the interest you're paying? You could have funded many flights with that money.

"But I pay off my balance EVERY month." Ok, great--you're part of the 2 percent that does. Because a tiny minority pays off the balance
is no reason to have these cards and play Russian Roulette with your future.

This is not a game to the credit card companies. They want your money. They will win. They have won. Look at their billions in
profits. You play with loan sharks, you start losing limbs, one at a time--until they've got every body part.

Don't get me started...

[emcguffie]

16. Yes, and so is the Fed.

The Fed is our main enslavement device. Some rather large portion of what we pay in taxes does actually go to pay interest on the money the Fed creates out of thin air and then lends to us. They get it for nothing, then lend it to us and charge us interest. Part of the taxes we pay goes to pay that bill.

That's why some of the Founding Fathers fought so hard against a central bank.

Some people suggest that both Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated because they were printing money. Of course, I don't know the truth of that (I do wonder), and I don't know exactly what Lincoln did regarding money, but I do remember actually holding a US Silver Certificate in my hands when JFK was president. It was a gift from a family friend, to me. I didn't understand the significance -- I was just a little girl -- but he thought it was really important. I have no idea what happened to that silver certificate, either. I don't even remember what denomination it was. One dollar, five dollars, or ten dollars. Something like that.

It used to bother me that right wingers have been right about something for so long. But they are indeed right about the Fed. And Ron Paul is right about the Fed. For so many decades liberals decried all those complaints about the Fed and taxes.

I can also remember my American History teacher in high school teaching us that the Fed made money out of nothing. It was utterly shocking to all of us. But she didn't make the connection to taxes and interest for us, so we didn't get the significance of it. Nor did she teach us that the Fed is a privately held bank. Now I wonder if she knew.

[emcguffie]

23. I have to correct myself a little.

I do still think the right wingers have been right about the Fed. But there is a quote commonly attributed to Jefferson about banks that I was thinking of which apparently is not something he actually said.

I'm thinking of that quote that includes the statement that "banks and corporations will deprive the people of all property." According to Snopes at http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp Jefferson never said that. There is no record of his having said it. And deflation, which is referred to in the quote, apparently didn't come into usage until around the 1920s. So, Snopes says, although Jefferson did on many occasions express disdain and mistrust of banking institutions and paper currency, this particular quote appears to be a retroquote, or "words placed posthumously in the mouth of a well-known dead person."

Hmmm. I may have to do some real Jefferson research. We did recently come into possession of a set of books containing some of his writings. Or I could ask Thom Hartmann. I seem to recall some years ago he was reading a collection of Jefferson's writings.

So, yes, The International just affirms all that nastiness about the banks. But with what's been happening over the last few years, whether that Jefferson quote is authentic or not, it does seem to be quite apt:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

[RebelOne]

41. Fortunately, the credit card companies do not own me any longer.

A few years ago, I had to declare a Chapter 11 bankruptcy because I went into so much debt because of credit cards. I am finally free of all debt. I will never get another credit. If I can't afford to pay cash for something, I just don't buy it.

[CoffeeCat]

9. I knew it and know it....

...but I do have a denial cloud. Sometimes I'm totally engulfed in it. Sometimes it's more of
a mist. But I need it to fuzzy up the harsh realities. No one can face this stuff head on, 24/7.

The movie takes away the denial and SHOWS you the reality. Yes, these were actors, but just
seeing how this would all play out--the smug looks on their faces and the games they play with lawyers
and law enforcement. Just watching it all play out, kinda takes it to the next level.

Ok, now....to the cloud!

[palm_to_forehead]

13. There's a bit of danger in the way you describe that.

The way you say the acting moved you, it sounds like you are opening yourself up to any sort of propoganda a random movie puts in front of you.

[CoffeeCat]

17. Actually, I feel like I'm pretty skilled...

...at sensing propaganda. After all, I've worked in PR for many years.

And it wasn't the "acting" per se, that moved me. It was the depiction of a reality--that we all know exists.

Watching that reality play out on a screen is much more potent than discussing it on a messageboard or reading
an op/ed piece.

And yes, film is much more likely to effect or persuade. Very powerful medium.

[blm]

25. Gee, palm...try reading the actual BCCI report. This movie was a mere scratch.

The propaganda machine that exists in this country would have less aware citizens believe that BCCI was just a boring banking matter that was too complex for their simple world. How did THAT load of propaganda work out for this country?

[palm_to_forehead]

26. Huh?

What exactly do you think you're arguing with me about?

I commented on being moved by a movie's acting.

[blm]

27. your 'concern' that the skill of the acting would drive a POV based on propaganda against the bank.

Gee....one would think you never heard of BCCI. And I don't mean the Wikileaks version that has been repeatedly sanitized.

[palm_to_forehead]

29. Yes, I have, I know the story.

You seem to think I was commenting on the movie when I was commenting on an emotion.

Are you just trying to pick a fight? There's not one here, I'm not disputing what you are saying and wasn't in my original reply either.

[blm]

35. Try rereading your posts.

Especially from the POV of those who weren't Born Yesterday.

[palm_to_forehead]

36. I have, and I've read yours.

You started going off on me about BCCI when I didn't say a god damned thing about that.

What exactly is it you think I've disagreed with you about?

[blm]

39. The International is based on some of the matters in BCCI. Hard to believe that a DUer would even

consider throwing the word propaganda at this movie, especially since most here know the reality of BCCI goes even so much further. Your concern was/is odd.

[palm_to_forehead]

43. I see, you didn't understand what I said.

"The way you say the acting moved you, it sounds like you are opening yourself up to any sort of propoganda a random movie puts in front of you."

I was commenting on the the acting moving a person. Random movie was in reference to any random movie.

I DID NOT call The International propaganda and if you think I did, then YOU are the one that needs to go back and reread what I posted without the preconceived notions.

NOT ONCE DID I DISPUTE ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT BCCI.

[blm]

44. It reads the way it reads. To me it's odd that one would even use the word propaganda

in a reply on this thread. Random or otherwise.

[palm_to_forehead]

45. To me it's odd that somebody on DU doesn't understand the idea of context.

I'd still like to know what it is about the subject you think I disagree with you on.

You are so hungry for a fight yet you have not shown me one thing I disagree with you on.

[blm]

46. Sorry, but your concern for a poster's vulnerability to propaganda, especially in a reply about

this specific movie, is peculiar to those of us who know the events around BCCI are actually so much worse. Whether you see it or not, you are the one who brought up the issue when you settled on using the word propaganda as you expressed your concern.

[palm_to_forehead]

47. Sorry dude, you are reading shit into it that is not there.

The word propaganda was not in reference to the movie, it was in reference to other movies because of the commentary on acting making it seem real. This has been explained to you a couple times now, not sure why you insist on claiming I meant something else.

I haven't said one god damned thing about the movie other than I agree with you on the BCCI stuff.

Take a chill pill.

[blm]

48. Your use of word propaganda came out of nowhere, so accept that it struck some of us as odd and

move on. Sheesh.

[palm_to_forehead]

49. Here's the deal...

If something strikes you as odd, say 'hey, that strikes me as odd'.

Don't be just another anonymous internet ass hole who feels the need to jump all over somebody at the drop of a hat.

In all honesty, it was because I was starting to become something like what you appear to have become that I went cold turkey on forums to begin with.

[blm]

50. oy

.

[palm_to_forehead]

37. Is this a post count thing?

Because I had an old username until two years ago when I cut myself off from forums.

You two seem to be reading all sorts of shit into my posts that I'm not saying.

[sabrina 1]

51. I haven't seen t he movie, but I do see the reality

being played out every day. The 'actors' in the real scenario are pretty compelling many of whom could probably get an academy award for their abilities to lie to the American people.

And, I do not believe the commenter said the 'acting' moved him/her.

From the descriptions of the movie, it sounds pretty realistic so maybe they didn't need to make a movie, just follow the real life version, if we had a proper media.

[demwing]

19. When you owe the bank $100,000 - the bank owns you

When you owe the bank $100,000,000,000 - you own the bank.

America wouldn't allow the banks to fail, do you really think that China will allow America to fail?

The debt/slavery relationship is not so simple...

[palm_to_forehead]

22. What's your point?

That we can go on with deficit spending forever?

[demwing]

28. Nope

My point is pretty simple - You can't sum up a complex situation with your bible verse, or my quippy quote.

[palm_to_forehead]

30. My gosh, what the hell made you think I was giving a dissertation on debt?

I was simply commenting on the fact that the relationship between borrowers and lenders is nothing new.

It's like people are just looking for things to argue about today.

[demwing]

33. Come on, your : "You needed a movie to tell you that?" wasn't argumentative? /nt

[palm_to_forehead]

34. What do you think I was arguing with?

Seriously, what in the world do you think I disagreeing with? Tell me.

I said it's been around for thousands of years.

[demwing]

40. I don't know why you're being argumentative

But for no good reason, you took an argumentative tone in post #2, which questioned the OP's level of understanding and experience. You repeated this argumentative attitude in post #9, where you stated your "concern" by questioning whether the same OP was in danger of succumbing to propaganda from random movies (BTW - On what did you base that analysis? A few comments regarding a specific movie that the OP appreciated, and wanted to share?).

You accused a second person of picking an argument with you in post #27. And in post #28 you accused me of also picking a fight.

Maybe people aren't picking fights with you. Maybe it's YOU that's being argumentative.

[palm_to_forehead]

42. Once again, I challenge you. What do you think I was arguing with?

I was basing my comments on propaganda movies on the way the OP described the acting making it seem so much more real. That is a tactic of such movies and something to be wary of. The BCCI thing is very real, that was not something I was disputing.

I did not comment on the actual move.

Seriously, what do you think I'm arguing with? Tell me one thing.

[blm]

32. No...that was Cheney and Bush's point. They LOVED deficit spending and derailed the payoff track we

were riding when they took office. Paul Ryan was for that plan, too, back then. Of cpurse, the plan was to bankrupt the nation while redistributing the nation's greater portion of wealth to the upper 1%. And they managed to accomplish that within 7 years.

Focking fascists.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. It's pretty much about how organizations like the BCCI really pull the strings. They switched

the letters around but the parallels are pretty obvious.

[dkf]

4. That movie made me see banking and debt in a new light.

Now I think of debt as a loss of personal power and a source of insecurity.

And I hate hate hate our national debt and deficit. I recommended that movie to my friends. It made an impact on me

[Distant Observer]

6. What do you think is going on in Libya - just sweet protesters being killed by evil dictator??

A massive propaganda machine just evolves naturally?
All these powers motivated by humanitarian concerns to launch
thousands of strikes of a small country?
It's always more complicated with $Trillion at stake.

[Bluenorthwest]

7. Fantastic film.

Not only does it have much disturbing information, it is also a good movie, well paced and gripping. I recommend it on every level.

[montanacowboy]

10. One of my Top 10

"it's not the conflict, but the debt it incurs, if you control the debt, you control everything"

never forget that

[CoffeeCat]

12. Yes, that speech was...

...definitely a Pepto Bismol moment. Very raw. I couldn't help but think of all
banking schemes--the easily-obtained mortgages, student-loan debt, credit-card debt,
Pay Day Loans. All designed to "control everything"--control us.

The speech given by the bank vp who was being questioned was equally chilling.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Good follow-up: Lord of War

There's a prison scene that closely mirrors what you describe.

[CoffeeCat]

14. Thanks for that...

...after I come down from the trauma of "The International" I'll check out "Lord of War". :)

[Luciferous]

31. Yeah, that was a good movie.

[eleny]

15. Sounds like the hopeless feeling I got at the end of Three Days of the Condor

[CoffeeCat]

18. How about an...

"International Condor" support group? haha :D

[eleny]

21. Lol!

I still have to watch International and then I'll sign right up. :hi:

[blm]

20. The movie didn't even get close to half of it. BCCI is the root of everything happening today.

And we have the Bushes and Clintons to thank for the coverups that went on throughout the 90s and which led directly to the events of 9-11-2001. Clinton didn't even mention one word of BCCI and its many serious outstanding matters in his entire book.

[blm]

24. BTW...mainstream media noticeably AVOIDED discussing this movie when it came out.

They turned most every interview with Naomi Watts into a discussion of her thoughts on mothering.

[cliffordu]

38. One of the reasons I have no, and I mean NO debt.

[CoffeeCat]

52. You're the man...

...seriously. Major kudos to you. That's very rare and something to be very
proud of.

You have no chains!

:yourock:

[azul]

53. It's a debt financial system.

Most people buy-in because their hidden brains perceive it as the cultural norm, and just adjust the shackles for comfort.

Do you think that it is a basic human right to be free of debt-bondage? Say something like a debt jubilee every 5 years when all obligations are forgiven? Would that discourage predatory lenders and usury? Sure it would slow the economy down, that would maybe lessen the impact when the wall is encountered.

[Generic Other]

54. sounds like true reality TV -- scary truths

I will hunt it down and watch it. Thanks.

[pecwae]

55. I'm offering you something for this early morning

:donut: plus :hug: I've never watch The International, but don't need to now after your description. The state of our world...it can't be contemplated without physical or emotional manifestations.