slave labor?

[ensho]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/30/winter.weather/index.html?hpt=T2


Winds whip California as New York digs out of snowstorm


-snip-

Communities such as Highland in San Bernardino County were flooded again Wednesday because the ground is saturated with rain water, residents told CNN.

Highland Mayor Pro Tem Penny Lilburn said more than 500 inmates placed almost 150,000 sandbags outside homes and businesses to protect them from flood waters. The state inmates also removed "thousands of tons of mud and debris from our streets," Lilburn said in a statement.
-snip-
----------------------------

inmates from private owned prisons?

would this be allowed in County, State or Fed. prisons and jails?

(how many of the 500 were in prison for pot - she wonders)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

1. Inmate worker programs are not a big deal, IMO

It's not like the state is running profitable enterprises using inmate labor programs. They generally provide public service labor... which works out nicely because inmates are generally incarcerated as a punishment for incivility/lawlessness.

[niyad]

2. are you at all familiar with the FOR-PROFIT prison systems?

[jdlh8894]

4. Where does it say "for profit" or "privately owned" ?

[MedicalAdmin]

6. Rigghhhhhht.

The US has five percent of the world population but 25% of the world prisoner population. We incarcerate at an alarming rate for the most petty things. And yes Virginia, the prisons do supply lots of slave labor to lots of industries.

If you've called a customer service center you've likely talked to a prisoner. Lots of clothes are made by prisoner, license plates, furniture, etc.

But hey, keep on telling yourself that justice is good and effective in the US. Just keep saying it and maybe someday it will be true.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

9. Would you rather a prisoner sit in cell and rott?

Let's see,
a prisoner can either eat, sleep and shit... or do something productive for society. I choose the latter. And I also feel that any extra profits outside of civil service labir (due to reduced labor cost) should help fund charity or other social net programs.

Your argument adressing the prison population and locking people up for petty crimes is a red-herring objection. You are objecting to WHY people are in prison. I was commenting on WHAT people should do in prison. If the US locked up a greater or lesser percentage of people... that is irrelevent to inmate work programs. Prison population is not a factor in the morality of inmate work programs.

[MedicalAdmin]

12. Yes, but most prisons used to be reformatories ...

and actually had the prisoners do something productive while at the same time learning a trade or skill that they were good at and interested in. Currently there are no trades (almost) being taught and the ones that are being taught are being phased out as soon as they can retire the teachers.

I'll give you an example. It used to be that prisoners in the Minnesota system could learn masonry and get their ticket while working on public service projects as well as charity projects. In addition these prisoners would be responsible (under tight supervision) for repairing masonry in the prison. The cost for this program was the partial salary of 1 public service employee. Part of his salary was paid by the profits from the program as well as all tools and materials. AND the recidivism rate among graduates of the program was pretty close to zero. This program was closed down as soon as the teacher retired. They simply didn't replace him.

And now the prisoners don't get marketable training upon leaving and cannot support a family on the outside. Most of them will return to crime. The stats on recidivism are clear on this.

And my objection is not a red herring - the amount of people we incarcerate has a direct effect on the programs offered. The prisons are overcrowded and understaffed and the only personel hired are guards (don't get me wrong I like guard - they keep demonstratably dangerous folks inside the walls) but the effrects of overcrowding on budgets have had a direct impact on vocational training in prisons.

What people should do in prison is develop skills so that they don't return to prison. That is no longer happening. No one can make it on a phone job outside of prison as long as the prisons can undercut the competition for those jobs by paying a pittance.

[Obamanaut]

14. In the Florida prison system, there are vocational courses in such things

as cabinet making, masonry, waste water management, and other programs. These are easy to find by going to the DOC site and searching each prison. Not all the programs are at every institution, and some do not have any.

There are GED programs, Special Ed programs, and Title 1. It is not uncommon for the teachers in these programs to have at least a master's degree. When I was a SPED teacher aide, the two SPED teachers both had master's in SPED.

Not all the programs are available at all the institutions. It is possible for an inmate who qualifies for a program to request, and be granted, a transfer to the institution that has the program he wants.

The stats on recidivism show that nationwide there is about a 60% recidivism rate in general, but that rate is much lower for those inmates who received a vocational certificate or a GED.

I was a guard for seven years, then SPED teacher aide for two more. This was in the state system - I know nothing about the private prison system.

[Obamanaut]

10. If they are in fact working at a customer service (and I am not doubting it

at all), they are still getting room, board, clothing, medical/dental care - and they can put the customer service job on their resume when they are released.

[MedicalAdmin]

13. See my reply just above this one.

I this kind of training does NOT lower recidivism which should be, arguably, the point of rehabilitation and restitution.

And while they are getting, as they say, 3 hots and a cot, ask yourself if it is really equivalent. Would you want to trade places with a prisoner in return for 3 hots and a cot. I've worked in prisons. Trust me when I say that I will do whatever I necessary to stay out of them. I'd rather live on the street than spend all my time either fighting or tossing salad.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to have medical. I need new glasses and can't afford them. I haven't seen a dentist in about 10 years but will have too soon to get some of my teeth pulled. At least I have a roof, food and the freedom to go where I want, when I want without worry (most of the time). Prison is not a day at the beach.

[NoPasaran]

3. It's certainly not unknown for prisoners to be used in emergencies

And there's nothing in the story you linked that indicates these inmates were from privately-operated prisons. . . Not that it should matter.

[InkAddict]

5. This seems to be an appropriate use of prison labor....

with musical interlude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2XHYKWLGTg

"Chain Gang" - Sam Cooke

[Hangingon]

7. Seems entirely appropriate.

[jwirr]

8. I worked at a non-profit museum and when we needed help setting

up new displays we often asked for local county prisoners to help us. I helped supervise them and talked with them about the displays they were helping with and to my knowledge they were just happy to have something to do other than set in a cell. I also remember in Iowa when there was a flood they were often asked to help sandbag the river banks. In that they seemed to be proud of what they could do to help.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. California, unlike other states, still runs it's own prisons

Oh and to add, it's been a tradition that many of them participate during both fires and floods.

[Upton]

15. Hell, if I were an inmate

I'd enjoy being outside working, getting some exercise, and doing something productive.

I don't see a problem..

[ensho]

16. It used to be that each state's Natl. Guard did emergency work like

this. not prisoners.

except, I guess, like Georgia and Miss. had/has chain gangs doing the work.