Waiting For the Spark -- Nader

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/19-4

What could start a popular resurgence in this country against the abuses of concentrated, avaricious corporatism? Imagine the arrogance of passing on to already cheated working people and the jobless enormous corporate losses? This is achieved through government bailouts and tax escapes.

History teaches us that the spark usually is smaller than expected and of a nature that is wholly unpredictable or even unimaginable. But if the dry tinder is all around, as many deprivations and polls reveal, the spark, no matter how small, can turn into a raging inferno.

The Boston Tea Party lit up the American Revolution. Storming the hated Bastille (prison) by impoverished Parisians launched the French Revolution. More recently, in December 1997, an Israeli military vehicle rammed a civilian van in the West Bank killing seven occupants and igniting the first Intifada.

Last December, a young fruit vendor, abused by thieving police in a small Tunisian town, immolated himself in the local square. Seen by millions on Facebook, this self-sacrifice launched the Tunisian and Egyptian overthrow of their long-time dictators. Later, in Syria, after police arrested 13 youngsters in a southern border town for anti-government graffiti the place erupted in riots and rallies that are spreading to other cities.

More at the link --

[MineralMan]

1. Maybe old Ralphie can provide the spark?

Somehow I don't think so. I think it's more of a "let's you and him fight" thing for Nader.

His spark seems to have fizzled...guttered out...gone dim...

[Brickbat]

2. Says the union-buster.

Also, dupe.

[Donnachaidh]

3. link? for the allegation of union-busting n/t

[Brickbat]

4. One of many.

http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Nader.html

"I don't think there is a role for unions in small non-profit 'cause' organizations any more than...within a monastery or within a union," Nader told the Washington Post on June 28, 1984.

[walldude]

5. Wait a sec..

So Nader is a union buster because he thinks non-profit organizations don't need unions?

This is what you have been spouting off about? :rofl: :rofl: Is he against all unions or just non-profit organizations?

[Brickbat]

7. He's a union buster because he busted a union at his magazine.

Not sure why you think that's funny.

[walldude]

9. Was it a non profit organization?

And was your union busting comment "not meant to be a factual statement" because you seem to have left some shit out.

THe only thing I find funny is your sad attempts.

[Brickbat]

12. What does "nonprofit" have to do with it?

Nonprofit workers can be as exploited and have just as much right to organize as for-profit workers do.

His quote was to the Washington Post in a story about his busting. His employees filed an NLRB complaint against him for firing them during an organizing campaign.

[goodnews]

6. Specious horseshit!

Nader's statement was categorical, whereas you try to make it look general. Nice try. :eyes:

[Brickbat]

8. It was in response to what was going on at his magazine.

It's not a general statement. It's a justification for his actions.

[walldude]

11. Time Magazine: Nader runs Pro-Union Campaign

http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg49187.html


Try all the facts if you are going to do this. And maybe try taking him to task for what he says instead of who he is.. if you disagree with his stance.

[Brickbat]

13. Well, sure -- just like any candidate hoping to get that vote would do.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

[goodnews]

16. You are being very decietful here by denying the categories

of the Unions related to Nader's position: namely non-profit and private or public employee.

[Brickbat]

17. I'm not denying them at all. Journalists at Nader's nonprofit magazine tried to organize, he busted

them. What's deceitful about that?

[goodnews]

14. Yours was an inaccurate (no union buster he) generalization

about Nader's categorical opposition to unions in non-profits. Besides that you speciously exclude all of Nader's work in support of human, labor, civil and any other kind of rights. Namely the evidence that is counter to your ultra-specious case. PATHETIC!

[Brickbat]

15. The quote is from a WaPo story about the NLRB complaint his former employees filed against him.

The ones he fired when they tried to organize.

[goodnews]

18. Yea, and YOU tried to use this to characterize

Nader as a Union buster in general, when the article is about a very specific category of unions.

I know your whole purpose is to simply confuse the issue and in that regard I think you did the best you could. People waste alot of time bantering about on the issue, while the important issues--like what Nader stands for--are not addressed. It's just Psy-ops.

[Brickbat]

19. Oohh, I see.

The fact that he, himself, busted a union, does not necessarily mean he is a union-buster IN GENERAL. He's OK with other unions, just not in his magazine. Just like pro-lifers who are against abortion until their daughter needs one, or people who hate people on disability until their husband is injured at work and can't hold a job anymore. What would be a better word for someone like that? Help me out here; all I can think of is "hypocrite."

[goodnews]

20. No, just someone who didn't believe that unions are appropriate

in that circumstance. Or so it was alleged. Why don't you write him and ask him to clarify.

Since you seem so interested in the subject :eyes: I am going to be getting back to you one what Nader's reply is.

I can tell by your tone that you don't give a flying fuck about the other issues you compared to Nader to on unions. You are simply trying to kill one of the few voices addressing the people's needs, by comparing him to Jesus Christ and being satisfied with nothing short of the mark. It is a Repuke game and that puts you in the category of a corporatist--Obamaist or otherwise. No one would go to the extremes you Nader haters go to unless they are out to simply shut him down.

This is the end of this topic. From now on you will first start out with all of the things Nader has done to better the lot of the people, THEN, and only then will we discuss these most trivial issues.

Don't forget now, because I will be reminding you and your fellow Nader haters at every turn. AND YOU WILL ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION.

[Brickbat]

21. Why would I write to him and ask him to clarify? It's very clear what he thought.

His arguments are straight out of union-busting handbooks; they're nothing new. There's nothing at all to clarify: He didn't want his employees to organize. And I think that's crap.

You make a lot of allegations about things that I have not done -- compare Nader to Jesus Christ (um, no); not giving a "flying fuck" about other issues (wrong, although for me, labor does come first) -- and call me a corporatist. Which, I have to say, gave me a good laugh. As do your little rules. Knock yourself out. This is a message board, after all.

[goodnews]

10. Go Ralph!! Keep the fire of dissent fueled. These corporatist

neo-liberal slime that plague the discussion with invectives show how petty their politics are.