WH has utter disrespect and disregard for Holbrooke..am now fuming

[Whoa_Nelly]

Holbrooke was in a meeting with Sec'y Clinton when he first collapsed. He was performing the job he was given. He did not get to complete that meeting. Instead, he gave his last words, which his family, even in their immediate grief, shared with the world.
Holbrook did not crack wise. Holbrooke was not a joke. His record, his knowledge of the situation in Afghanistan, and his performance to follow through on the duty as charged to him by our government speaks for itself.

How dare the WH issue such an egregious statement against a man who can no longer defend himself.
:nuke: :mad: :grr:

[monmouth]

1. People fuming about the WH remarks re Holbrook's last wish.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/14/holbrooke-last-words-afghanistan-obama_n_796628.html

This is sad and at the same time infuriating. People don't like being duped. The comments are as you would expect.

[golddigger]

2. Its vile and disgusting. I'm so

fucking angry I could shit molten lava.

[man4allcats]

8. Agreed! And by the way,

I like your imagery. If I could actually do that, I think I'd go on tour. }(

[City Lights]

3. I'm totally disgusted.

x(

[FLAprogressive]

4. Like I said, they'll go to ANY length whatsoever to justify their policies, no matter how wrong.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HereSince1628]

6. As they say down south...That just ain't right!

and it isn't. It's adolecently indecent.

[xiamiam]

7. it is indecent...better that they shut up..too stupid for that..now its on record

i cant stop shaking my head..some things are just not done..like spinning a dying mans final message...just not done ..period

[golddigger]

10. Big time fuck up. Been reading a few left blogger sites comments

and there is unbridled anger out there. This administration has fucked the pooch on this one.

[Robb]

9. You can relax.

Unsurprisingly, it's http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkpoint-washington/2010/12/holbrookes_final_words_on_the.html">not as HuffPo portrays things. :hi:

[lillypaddle]

12. Don't try to defent him/them!

Doncha know that Obama & his administration is fucking EVIL!!!!! :sarcasm:

People have gotten totally out of hand around here these days.

[PufPuf23]

13. There is no excuse for a WH public comment

and it could have been a rallying call for stopping the war.

Geez maybe Holbrooke's playfully bantered "Keep the war going"?

There is no apology or excuse for such sick shit being commented on like this.

[monmouth]

14. What I got out of that was Holbrooke asked his doctor, who was also

SOS Clintons doctor..."Tell her to end the war." Did I get that right?

[Recursion]

19. The doctor asked "what can I do to help you relax"

And he said "end the war".

Hard to see that as something other than a joke, actually. But DU manages.

[JoePhilly]

29. BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!!!!

[monmouth]

32. I'm sorry, did I miss something?

[JoePhilly]

42. Yes, absolutely ... you missed something ...

Do you actually think that Richard Holbrooke, who has held MULTIPLE diplomatic positions under Carter, and Clinton, and is now special envoy to Afghanistan under Obama, was not able to tell Hillary Clinton his current position on the Afghanistan war prior to this week???

Do you actually think that he decided to "finally go public" on his desire to end the war immediately!! Really??

This appears to be a man, who knows that this surgery may or may not work. The docs tell him to relax, and he blames his immediate anxiety on something else ... Afghanistan. They tel him they will handle it, and he jokes about that.

Holbrooke is not sending a final message, he is dealing with his own personal life or death moment. And he, and the surgeons, appear to be trading light hearted quips before he goes into surgery.

All this knee-jerk outrage makes me wonder more and more about DU.

[monmouth]

43. That is your interpretation, I have mine. I wonder about DU also, snide

and snarky seems to be the meme lately...

[JoePhilly]

47. Snarky for sure ...

But not one statement on the real argument?

If you want to get past snark, then add an argument,

I started with snark, but only to get the debate.

You respond on the snark, but not on the points of debate.

[Individualist]

18. What a pathetic attempt to defend the indefensible.

[Recursion]

20. Which part is indefensible?

Accurately reporting that it was a joke? Or not using it as an excuse to withdraw all troops immediately?

[StarsInHerHair]

50. pretending that it's possible to stay forever in Afghanistan=a bad joke

nt

[JI7]

23. there is nothing indefensible about it

[Robb]

24. My thoughts exactly.

Although I doubt we're talking about the same thing.

[FiveGoodMen]

27. How can you be sure THAT report wasn't slanted?

Or that the clairvoyant aide knew what he was talking about?

[Robb]

30. No need for clairvoyance. The aide was present for the conversation.

But you're right, who knows. Perhaps he said "Rosebud." One story is corroborated and more plausible, however, and it's not the one HuffPo is running with. Again, unsurprisingly. :shrug:

[FiveGoodMen]

33. Did the aide say that Holbrook laughed or said, "just kidding, of course"?

Or did he just provide his own take on it?

[Robb]

34. How do you interpret the WaPo piece?

[FiveGoodMen]

37. It says that an aide assures us all that he didn't really mean it.

How does the aide know?

Is he just doing damage control?

He could be right, but lots of stuff that isn't true gets printed in the news paper and this sounds weak from the word go.

[Robb]

41. Sounds less weak than the HuffPo interpretation.

Holbrooke was many things, and while no comedian he made a better comic than dove, if you follow.

[PufPuf23]

11. Vile and not worthy of even disgust.

POTUS Obama should publically appologize to Holbrooke's family and memory.

The Obama WH has already repeatedly shown a lack of integrity but this is sick shit.

Appropriate would have been a comment in support of ending the AfPak war in memory of Holbrook as a rallying call.

[Odin2005]

15. K&R

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. Wake Up America

I'm Nauseous.

[lamp_shade]

17. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME????

[Number23]

21. I don't even really know what the drama is. But I'm counting on one thing

That it is something probably stupid and based on either a flat out lie or a gross (and deliberate) misinterpretation.

[lamp_shade]

25. I'll take door #3 (deliberate misinterpretation).

:facepalm:

[Vinca]

22. I can't imagine anyone doing a comedy routine as they go into surgery,

especially in a life or death situation. Doesn't ring true at all.

[NYCGirl]

26. People do interesting things when they're frightened. NT

[JoePhilly]

35. After being shot, Ronald Reagan said this to his surgeons ...

"I hope you're all Republicans."

People going into serious surgery, with life and death outcomes, joke all the time. It is part of how many deal with the stress. Some pray, some cry, some JOKE.

Here's a personal example.

A number of years back, I was on a beach vacation with my wife our kids and 2 other families. The wives took an afternoon to do some shopping, and the dads watched the kids. At one point, I had chest pains, so painful that I literally collapsed to the floor in the living area. One of the other dads was in the shower, the other was taking trash down to the road.

Barely able to speak, I told the oldest child, my 5 year old, to go get uncle Mike, the one taking out the trash. They returned and Mike, called 911, and then he bent over me and said don't pass out, I haven't done CPR in a long time. And I said, if you are the one doing the CPR, there is no way I am going to pass out.

The ambulance came. Everyone agrees I am having a heart attack, in this beach location, far from a real hospital. As the ambulance driver races along the rough shoulder of the road, around vacation traffic ... I ask that he go back because he missed at least 5 pot holes. The female emergency tech and I continue to make fun of his driving skills for the rest of the trip.

We get to the nearest urgent care. A nurse wants my insurance info, or a co-pay. I am wearing gym shorts, no underwear, and a T-shirt, with no ID of any kind. I ask which item of cloths she wants as collateral.

Of course, during all of this, I AM thinking of my wife and kids, and what happens if I actually die. But I have to not think about that, because the only thing scarier than my own death, is the fear of what they would do without me. I can't let that fear dominate my thoughts.

And so ... I am going to joke my way through this, because this is no big deal, and I am not going to die.

[struggle4progress]

38. I had surgery once. When they were putting me under, they asked me if I wanted to say anything.

The surgery did not involve my legs, so I told them I'd be really happy if I still had both legs when I woke up; one of the doctors replied, Mistakes like that have been known to occur

The nurse woke me up post-op by shaking my shoulder and asking, Do you know where we are? My spontaneous reply was that she would have to ask someone else for directions if she was lost, because I had just been in surgery and couldn't help her. There was a long silence, after which a second voice said, He's a joker

[Recursion]

56. WTF? Of course it does

Everybody I've ever seen going into surgery tried to make light of it.

[bigtree]

28. how do you know this?

. . . this is worst than the other second, third-hand accounts. Your comments are made without any personal knowledge at all about what was or wasn't said.

[lamp_shade]

31. This kind of shit goes on all day long. It'll be dead by noon tomorrow.

[Scurrilous]

44. And something else will be manufactured to take its place.

ohtheoutrage addicts need their daily fix.

[lamp_shade]

45. It appears that it's already "mostly dead".

[struggle4progress]

36. The constant anti-administration spin is asinine

Statement from the Vice President on Richard Holbrooke
Today, I lost a great friend and America lost one of its greatest warriors for peace. Richard Holbrooke was a larger than life figure, who through his brilliance, determination and sheer force of will helped bend the curve of history in the direction of progress. He touched so many lives and helped save countless more ... http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/12/13/statement-vice-president-richard-holbrooke

Statement from the President on Richard Holbrooke
... For nearly 50 years, Richard served the country he loved with honor and distinction. He worked as a young foreign service officer during the Vietnam War and then supported the Paris peace talks which ended that war. As a young Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, he helped normalize relations with China. As U.S. Ambassador to Germany, he helped Europe emerge from a long Cold War and encouraged NATO to welcome new members. As Assistant Secretary of State for European and Canadian Affairs, he was the tireless chief architect of the Dayton Accords that ended the war in Bosnia 15 years ago this week, saving countless lives. As Ambassador to the United Nations, Richard helped break a political impasse and strengthen our nation’s relationship with the UN and elevated the cause of AIDS and Africa on the international agenda. And throughout his life, as a child of refugees, he devoted himself to the plight of people displaced around the world ... http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/12/13/statement-president-richard-holbrookePassing of Richard Holbrooke

Remarks
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Tonight America has lost one of its fiercest champions and most dedicated public servants. Richard Holbrooke served the country he loved for nearly half a century, representing the United States in far-flung war-zones and high-level peace talks, always with distinctive brilliance and unmatched determination. He was one of a kind -- a true statesman -- and that makes his passing all the more painful ... http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/12/152782.htm

I found the story about Holbrooke's pre-surgery exchange with his doctors charming: it provided a humorous insight into his complete dedication to his issues

[Scurrilous]

40. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[robcon]

39. No evidence whatsoever that Holbrooke opposed that war.

tempest/teapot.

[jillan]

52. I don't know about that - I watched him once testify in front of the Senate foreign relations cmte

(yes - I find stuff like that interesting) and he was belittling the Bsh administration for their mishandling of Iraq. He really went off on them.

Plus he had that blow-up with Karzai.

I liked him - I think he was someone who really understood foreign policy and would not put up with alot of bullshit.

[EFerrari]

55. He had a lot of contempt for BushCo but he was not anti-war

in any respect.

[ohheckyeah]

46. My take on this is

that we will never know exactly what he said and why he said it. But in my own personal experience with surgery, both my own and my father's, when one is scared one tends to say things in jest to lighten the mood, but those comments usually have some truth to them. Saying something in a joking manner doesn't discount the important of what was said, IMO.

[laughingliberal]

48. +1000 nt

[Historic NY]

49. Call me a skeptic but he would have been in no condition to talk...

he was bleeding to death internally & would have been in surgery immediately every minute is critical.

[EFerrari]

51. What happened is probably the way the White House tells it.

Holbrooke was a hawk. It would be inappropriate to do a run down right now but he was out there defending America's wars since Viet Nam.

[mmonk]

53. Yes, he was.

I knew his positions well.

[somone]

54. Disgusting