IF the baby is hers she broke SEVERAL of the Right Wing Anti-Abortion laws.

[Snoutport]

There is quite a debate going on about whether Palin's pregnancy claims should be looked into.

These are 2 good reasons why Sara Palin's pregnancy story should be investigated:

REALLY GOOD REASON ONE: Sara Palin is still a very influential member of the GOP both nationally and in Alaska whether we like her or not. How many Tea Party Candidates were swept into office with her blessing just five months ago? How much money is in her PAC for her to fund more candidates? To count her out now and ignore her is to our own peril. She has minions and supporters everywhere. Alaska, in particular, is still full of her hand-picked appointees doing her business. Joe Miller nearly made it to Washington. So why does it matter about the pregnancy? Because Palin did either one of two things: she either had her own baby (and put the baby in terrible peril by getting on a plane TWICE after her water broke) or she has made an extreme and borderline ridiculous attempt to put a cover story in place. This shows her to be sneaky, conniving, a risk-taker, a liar and a person who chooses cover-up over disclosure. Whether the child is hers is not what I am debating about. I don't care. What I do care about is how far this woman is willing to go to pull the wool over the American people's eyes. And not just our eyes, but the eyes of her family-values-conservative-followers who are, every day, sending money to Sara Palin's PAC for her to spend on more of her hand-picked cronies. This story has potential to push some of her followers even farther away from her. It has potential to undermine her credibility with her base. So, if the baby isn't hers there is good reason to expose her lies and deceit.

REALLY GOOD REASON TWO: In several states Palin's Party and her close political allies are pushing laws that would send the mother to prison for putting her unborn baby at risk. Why should Palin have to tell the truth? Because
there are women in this country RIGHT NOW who are being harassed, arrested and prosecuted for having done behavior that might have damaged their unborn child. Sara Palin probably gets donations from people to pass the laws I'm talking about. But Palin's actions would be against the law if many Republican Anti-Abortion bills pass. Consider this:

Palin says she was in Texas when her water broke. Her baby was early and was known already to have down syndrome. It was not a typical birth. Instead of going straight to the hospital she went to the airport. This endangered the life of the baby.
Palin boarded the plane even though she must have been leaking fluid. They did not tell the flight crew. They had total disregard that the baby might be born on the plane with no Dr. to help. This endangered the life of the baby.
The plane landed (Seattle?) and instead of going to the hospital she sat and read a book while Todd texted about her speech but did not mention Palin was in labor. No arrangements were made to have the Dr. meet them at the airport in Anchorage. They boarded the next flight and did not notify the flight crew that Palin's water had broken 6 or 7 hours earlier. (and neither flight crew noticed she was pregnant....um...ever seen a pregnant lady put on a seatbelt?) This endangered the life of the baby.
The plane landed in Anchorage and instead of going to the hospital (with the facilities for premature babies) they got their luggage and drove to Wasilla. This endangered the life of the baby.
They checked into the hospital in Wasilla 20 hours after Palin's water broke. The hospital had no facilities for premature babies, and, in fact, it was their protocol to send premature births to Anchorage. This endangered the life of the baby.

Every single one of these actions would be punishable with jail time if the Republican Platform that Sara Palin pushes were law. I have recently read of a woman who was arrested and investigated because she fell down the stairs while pregnant. Other people have made posts about women being prosecuted and punished for behavior that Sara Palin allegedly committed. Her behavior with the baby should be exposed to show she is a hypocrite and that will undermine the right wing push to make their anti-abortion laws. In this case there is no cover up but her actions are just as bad.

These are the reasons I see this story as important. It doesn't matter who had the baby. What matters is Palin either put her baby at terrible risk or she made up an elaborate hoax that calls into question her judgement, honesty and, maybe, her sanity. It doesn't matter which one is the true story. What matters is Palin's behavior. She either lied to all her supporters and the country or she has shown by actions that she had no regard for the baby in her belly, and to a pro-lifer, how you treat that baby in the belly is the biggest thing in the world. To hold her behaviors up into the public arena for everyone to see only weakens her, weakens her party and weakens her PAC.

Earlier today I posted this argument but it was locked because I used some not very nice language. I apologize if I offended anyone and I have taken great care to rewrite the post in a less confrontational way. THere have been some pretty personal attacks about this subject so I'm hoping I've made my point without making anyone feel disrespected.

[Scuba]

1. Fortunately, no one here is obsessed by her. n/t

[Zywiec]

14. LOL +100000000000000000 n/t

[kristopher]

22. Why the fuss? "Palin, the Press, and the Fake Pregnancy Rumor" By Bradford W. Scharlott, Ph.D.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52841266/Prof-Brad-Scharlott-Palin-the-Press-and-the-Fake-Pregnancy-Rumor

Palin, the Press, and the Fake Pregnancy Rumor:
Did a Spiral of Silence Shut Down the Story?
By
By Bradford W. Scharlott, Ph.D.
Northern Kentucky University
Media Matters for America, a liberal online site that monitors press performance, has steadfastly maintained that the press has no business looking into the rumor that Sarah Palin faked the birth of her fifth child, Trig, in 2008 to cover for her daughter, Bristol – and it has repeatedly commended the U.S. press for doing the right thing by ignoring the rumor. Ten days after McCain named Palin as his running mate, Eric Boehlert wrote in MediaMatters: “We haven't seen the name of one reporter who pressured the McCain campaign about Palin's pregnancy.”

The following January Boehlert wrote that while reporters heard the rumor of the fake birth immediately after Palin was nominated, in the 48 hours after the nomination the press “did not touch the story”; and after that the press only mentioned it in passing because the McCain campaign brought it up, revealing Bristol’s then-current pregnancy as a way to rebut the “smears.” And then last July Boehlert defended the U.S. press again after Palin on Facebook asserted that the press had pushed the fake pregnancy story. Palin, he wrote, had no grounds for complaint, “Because back in 2008, 99 percent of people in ‘the media’ did the right thing and ignored the Trig nonsense.”

What Boehlert wrote about mainstream press performance in 2008 concerning Trig’s birth applies to the time since then, also. A database search of articles in more than 40 leading newspapers showed that the U.S. press has almost entirely treated the question of Trig’s maternity as a taboo subject.

But it’s fair to ask if the U.S. press should have treated the fake pregnancy rumor as untouchable, both in 2008 and up to the present day. After all, if there seemed to be any real chance that the rumor was true, that might mean that a candidate for the vice presidency had staged a hoax...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52841266/Prof-Brad-Scharlott-Palin-the-Press-and-the-Fake-Pregnancy-Rumor

There seems to be a lot of questions about why this is suddenly a topic of conversation again. This was the trigger, and it was originally reported here on the 13th. http://www.businessinsider.com/sarah-palin-baby-hoax-2011-4

[WatsonT]

56. It's not Obsession!!!! These are important issues that must be dealt with immediately!

Everything else must grind to a stop, we should dedicate 100% of our national resources towards this investigation.

You're the one obsessed with not being obsessed with this!

:sarcasm:

I wonder if we were to breed birthers to well these birthers if the offspring would be completely insane or would it balance out?

[demwing]

66. You know, you don't HAVE to call people insane

thats rude and over the top.

[WatsonT]

69. Obsessing over a non-issue

for someone who doesn't interact with you, for this long is insane.

It's similar to a stalker mentality and I find it pretty disturbing.

[demwing]

70. Whatever you need to do or say to justify your attitude - that's up to you

but you dont HAVE to be rude, regardless of what you think, or what you "find" (even though your conclusions are quite debateable, but let's save that discussion for another thread...).

just because you have the internet as a buffer doesn't mean you should forget about basic courtesy.

[WatsonT]

71. You're right, let's be more civil

as we're ripping in to this 'tard.

:eyes:

[demwing]

72. Wow....Ok, then!

I'll just try to ignore you from now on. Thanks for making my life easier. Hope it does so for you as well...

[WatsonT]

76. Probably for the best, you really need to focus on trig right now

That is your top priority.

Go get him!

[Snoutport]

79. IF you read the post it isn't about Trig

It is mostly about her actions before she gave birth to Trig...not about whether the baby is hers but about how she treated the baby if it was hers. She is pushing laws to imprison women whose actions hurt their unborn baby, and then she avoids the hospital, gives a speech and flies to Alaska. Something a woman in Georgia can go to jail for now. (they did pass that law, didn't they?)

[monmouth]

2. Could care less....n/t

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Snoutport]

18. If people didn't care I figure they wouldn't open up the post in the first place :0)

[MineralMan]

3. Screw this shit. Palin conspiracy theories should be in 9/11.

Palin is irrelevant to anything now.

[Snoutport]

4. I wish you were right. I went to school with her in Wasilla and in Alaska

she still has a lot of influence.

We thought George Bush was an unelectable idiot too and didn't take him serious.

[pipi_k]

6. And once again...

do you really believe her most ardent, most rabid, supporters are going to give two shits about what Democrats manage to "prove" about her?

Think of a candidate you support. Is a Republican conspiracy that doesn't even have any REAL proof going to change your mind? Or is it going to make you dig in even harder?


By posting this here, you're basically wasting your time and energy...which, admittedly, you have a right to do. But it's preaching to the choir because very few (if any) DUers are likely to vote for her.

Start yapping about it in RL, and you're likely to be looked at as a fruitcake. Or just a nasty little person with nothing better to do.

It's not going to change the mind of any Freeper or Teabagger who sees Palin as being one step below Jesus's mother.

All your time and energy spent on this will eventually come to nothing. Which is too bad, really. Such energy and passion would be a huge advantage on an issue that really matters....

:shrug:

[Snoutport]

10. Thank you for the thoughtful post

I'm not putting much energy into it. Just read up on it after some posts were made the other day and then shared a link that I thought was worth reading and I got ripped for doing that.

Anyway, I made my point and unless more news comes out with photos/facts I don't need to post about it again. I was just defending my position as to why I think Palin is a formidable enemy and to why her honesty or abuse of her baby is a justifiable story. I don't think she's gonna run and would lose if she did, but her PAC will be funding school board races, state races for years to come. I'd like to weaken that by putting her actions out there rather than let her PAC grow because we are ignoring her.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. Snoutport, I gave up on putting Palin posts here

some time ago except for an occasional one now and then. But I do agree with you 100%. I think she bears watching and I think she can do a lot of damnage (ha -- Freudian slip) with her PAC money. I don't understand her charisma, but she's quite capable of manipulating people. She manipulated a majority of Alaskans into giving her high approval ratings -- until she revealed her true character at the Republican National Convention. Now she is manipulating her adoring fans at C4P and SarahPAC with a message that's nothing like she fed us.

I have a word for her which I'm not allowed to use at DU without calling down the wrath of the language police, but I'm sure you can use your imagination.

[Snoutport]

64. Maybe we just need to share how much her PAC makes weekly to get people to take her seriously

[Moostache]

36. Nope....gotta disagree a bit.

Energy and passion are assets in a real representative republic form of government.

We live in a thoroughly corrupt plutocracy now and all the energy and passion in the world are not going to as helpful as they once would have been in a pre-Citizens united reality...

[pipi_k]

54. I don't have an issue with energy and passion...

just energy and passion that are pointed in directions that don't really matter, or that could actually bring about the very thing people fear.

Some here say that Palin is still a threat. Well...yeah. If they continue to make her a threat, she'll be one.

With every rumor, with every snarky thread, with every finger pointing, people continue to keep her relevant.

And I know this probably doesn't matter to some who either can't or won't understand the whole concept, but when one is willing to hurt innocent people in an effort to "get" someone else, that doesn't speak well of that person's character. Whatever Palin may or may not have done to her family, whether or not she's hurt them in any way, that doesn't mean others have to stoop to the same level and add even more hurt to the mix.

If Sarah Palin slapped her child and hurt him, would anybody here feel justified in adding their own slap? Because, after all, SHE opened the door...SHE started it.

Because that's exactly what's going on. If Sarah Palin has hurt, or is hurting, her family and her child, why are people here doing whatever they can to hurt them even more?

That's not passion and energy. That's just plain mean spirited and cruel.

[SlimJimmy]

16. Now, now. We should take the advice of our esteemed colleague:

Anything that marginalizes the bitch works to our advantage.

Or not.

[CreekDog]

17. I was in Wasilla last year

I also went to Alaska. :crazy:

[Blue_In_AK]

35. Please don't judge Alaska by people you met in Wasilla.

That place is just plain WEIRD. Too bad, too, because it used to be kind of a quaint little town, with hippies and homesteaders. Now it's a place where people go who are uncomfortable with Anchorage's diversity and feel the need to get away. Plus, there's the drugs and the child molestation, but that's another story.

[CreekDog]

37. We went to the Fred Meyer

which was about the same size as Rhode Island.

in all my life i've never seen a single store that was that big.

[Snoutport]

42. I'm from Wasilla! lol. (Palin and I were in the same class)

But I'll admit...I'm a little weird.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. But don't you agree that things have "changed" in Wasilla

in recent years?

I realize there are some good people out there -- I know a few myself, and my oldest daughter actually lived out there for a while -- but it's just kind of "different."

The reason I made the comments about the drugs and the child molestation (well, the drugs are obvious) is because when I worked in corrections and also when I was doing court transcripts, it seemed like an inordinate number of crimes against children were committed out in the Valley, not just sexual molestation but neglect and other abuse, as well.


Anyway, I meant no offence. :hide: You have my profound sympathy.

[Snoutport]

49. LOL

I was there for Jr. High--7th and 8th grade. When we lived there it was mostly gravel roads. The big deal then was the theater opening and the THRILL of getting to see Star Wars a full year after it opened in the lower 48.

We had moose in our yard and God only knows what ate our cat. It was the edge of the frontier back then and not a lot of people lived there. I haven't been there for a long time. But my friends back you up that it has really gone downhill. Obviously if they elected Palin mayor.

[CreekDog]

59. Just a little.

:D

:rofl:

[Blue_In_AK]

32. Sarah personally doesn't have a lot of influence here now,

but we are still cleaning up after her. And her successor is to the right of her. We know now that Sarah was just using us to get noticed. All the bipartisanship and such that she showed here was just a front, and probably her rabid partisanship now is alos just a front. She plays to the crowd.

Sean Parnell, on the other hand, is a true believer. Religious fundamentalistm, conservative values, and an uncontrollable urge to give away the farm to the big oil companies. He's been trying to get a bill passed that would give a $2 billion a year tax break to the oil companies with NO GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL DO ANYTHING.

Sorry -- that's off topic about Sean Parnell, but he just pisses me off. I had to vent.

[Snoutport]

43. Parnell is an example of why Palin does still have influence. Her PAC will support Parnell and peeps

like him.

[riderinthestorm]

45. Yup, and she has Koch Brothers support. Anything that takes down Sarah

in the eyes of the power Rethugs like the Kochs is something that bears scrutiny imho.

That, and I've made the same point about how the RR is already working overtime to criminalize women who are pregnant and have accidents or "misbehave" with unborn-child-protection laws. It's happening. And fast. With women like Sarah Palin ostensibly leading the way, it would behoove us to cut her off now if possible.

[pipi_k]

55. The scary thing about human nature...

is that sometimes the more we try to make someone irrelevant by giving that person attention, the more relevant that person becomes.

Think about it.

Many Republicans...especially the Palin-ites...absolutely loathe Democrats. You really think they're going to turn away from her just because of some rumors floating around about the parentage of her son?

If anything, it will cause them to dig in even more.

How many times have you seen people on the street say that they are turned off by nastiness during political campaigns? I've seen it lots of times.

and this Trig birther stuff is about as nasty as it gets.

People won't just see this as going after Sarah Palin...they will see it as going after her son. And this whole bag of shit will explode in the faces of those hoping for a different outcome. Her supporters will fight back. And even those who might be ambivalent about her could end up sympathizing with her.

You don't marginalize someone by giving them attention, even if it's negative attention.

[Snoutport]

62. Most of my post was about her actions assuming he IS her son...

Her behavior if she is the mother is the big issue. There are women being taken to jail in Republican states because they did things that could hurt the unborn child.

As for giving her attention...she is getting plenty of attention from the media. If you look up the main 6 papers in Wisconsin they all had glowing reviews of her visit. If you read the papers you would think she was the most popular politician in the world. Negative talk about her is attention but something has to balance corporate media's golden girl treatment.

If Palin is slipping in the polls it isn't because the main stream media is hitting her hard on the issues...it is because people DUers are holding her responsible for her words and actions.

FOr her to be pushing laws that sends a woman to jail for harming an unborn baby while she took a 20 hour travel trip and two plane rides after her water broke kind of takes away her power to condemn other women. I think that is an issue OK to bring up. I think the next time she speaks in support of antiabortion laws they should compare her words to her actions.

Otherwise we give her a free pass.

[WatsonT]

57. And whichever way Wasilla turns so turns America!

[Webster Green]

11. She isn't irrelevant.

She's a media darling given lots of free air time to spout dangerous fascist rhetoric to gullible TV addicts. She needs to be marginalized at every opportunity.

Either she didn't have the baby, and it actually emerged from one of her tramp offspring, or she endangered the life of the stealth baby she was supposedly carrying, by traveling 20 hours after her water broke to get to the safe haven where her paid-off cult members were there to cover her dumb ass.

[Snoutport]

15. Thank you! I was feeling a little lonely saying Palin is still a threat!

[virgogal]

20. Her "tramp" offspring are behaving the way most kids in the

Western world behave.

Your comment was old-fashioned and dated.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[virgogal]

25. Blame the Mom and the oldest daughter. The others have done nothing.

[Snoutport]

41. The daughter who made $600,000 talking about chastity?

Great message to young girls: have sex but pretend to be chaste...then you get rich and get on television.

[virgogal]

44. Yep. That's what I was referring to in my post.

[Snoutport]

48. I know :0) I just like pointing it out... how they pulled that one off I'll never know.

[Webster Green]

26. Okay.

Fair enough. I'll give the younger kids a break. Hell, we don't even know if they're her kids or what.

[WatsonT]

58. You know what will help marginalize her?

NOT TALKING ABOUT HER CONSTANTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Snoutport]

60. Maybe what marginalized her

was that while the mainstream media was busy giving her uncounted hours of positive airtime places like this called her on her crap and kept the fire on until the public noticed. Her poll numbers keep going down but half the media still gives her glowing reviews and coverage.

I've been reading the local Wisconsin newspapers and most of them were pretty glowing reports of how the awesome Sara Palin came to town and thousands of people came out to hear her speak...and lots pictures of a pretty lady standing tough in a Wisconsin snow storm.

Something has to balance that.

[WatsonT]

68. So to balance out her airtime we post stories about trig

yeah that is really marginalizing her.

In no way is attacking her family going to gain her sympathy or anything.

He also has trisomy 21, should probably make as many jokes about that as possible.

[emilyg]

74. Nasty post.

[bettyellen]

38. I wish she actually was irrelevant, but the GOP do not have many polling better right now

whatever really happened that day, she either had horrible judgement (as in makes me wish she was from North Carolina), or perpetuated a huge fraud. I would love it if the truth came out, because it shoud end her career.

[eridani]

67. Not when whackjob candidates she endorses actually get elected n/t

[Snoutport]

77. we still might get sharon angle...and palin's PAC will probably give her some money

[yawnmaster]

5. third reason: because we just can't get enough of sarah palin.

and by we, I mean as in a doctor asking "how are we doing today".

[benboot]

7. Wasted band width. She is the mother. People need to let go. NT

[musette_sf]

12. More actual facts point to her NOT being the mother

than actual facts pointing to the POTUS not being a natural-born citizen.

I don't see people letting go of the latter. Wonder why you joined us to exhort us to let the former go?

[buddysmellgood]

29. She's an attention whore.

[pinto]

9. Speaking for myself, I couldn't care less. Palin's a media sideshow and who's whose is her business

:hi:

[jberryhill]

13. It's fascinating how many Palin birther threads were spawned after Trump's recent garbage

Donald Trump brings up the Obama birther crap in the national media and... boom... Suddenly a segment of DU develops an Alaska uterus obsession.

Odd that.

[cali]

33. interesting observation.

[Snoutport]

50. I think posts can cause people to investigate a story and then share new info

Quite a few times I've read a link from DU...and those articles link to related articles. That's why I added my thoughts to this subject.

The Trump stuff though, you can't turn on the TV or DU or any site right now without Trump being all over the place. I doubt he'll run though--he's just in it to bump up his show's ratings, I figure.

[Starry Messenger]

19. I don't have any love for SP

but I look forward to a day when a woman's reproductive system is not a topic of everyday conversation. She's done plenty of silly things without having the public needing to appoint itself Guardian of The Womb. This isn't the 12th century.

[PeaceNikki]

21. This ^. Also, her name is spelled "Sarah" (or "Bible Spice").

That was also bugging me.

[upi402]

23. She's a propagandist that tried to kill her baby indirectly

She had kids and knew she put it at risk by flying that long unnecessarily - AFTER her water broke.

[Mariana]

28. The problem with that idea is that Tawd was with her.

They'd had four children before this one, so surely he knew that getting on an airplane (twice) half a day after the water breaks just isn't the recommended thing to do. Yet apparently he did nothing to try to stop her, which would have been very easy - all he had to do was tell the airline personnel that she was in labor and they wouldn't have let her on the plane.

It's possible, I suppose, that Tawd simply didn't mind that she was endangering both their child and herself and quietly went along with her stupid decisions, but I think that's a stretch. It's even more of a stretch to believe that when her water broke in Texas, they decided together to try to have the baby born in the air. If it happened the way she said, though, one of those must be true.

[Egnever]

27. There is no good reason

Palin is only relevant to the people who care whether brad and Angela are fighting. To the rest of the world she is a clown for our amusement.

[Blue_In_AK]

30. Please read Geoffrey Dunn's take

which is reprinted with permission at ProgressiveAlaska. http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2011/04/sarah-palins-version-of-trigs-birth-may.html He emphasizes many of the same points that you do. I find the "wild ride" scenario much more egregious than any possible fake pregnancy. I mean, really, so what if Trig IS someone else's biological child? Who could get mad at Sarah for adopting him? (That is, giving her significant benefit of the doubt.)

But the risks she took, given her OWN account, are damning.


(And you are absolutely correct about the Palin appointees who are still hanging around in our government. Sean Parnell kept a lot of her people and has installed many of his own who are even more to the right. I see him as quite dangerous because he flies under the radar -- he's a "true believer." Fortunately, a bipartisan coalition in our legislature seems to be standing up to him, but he's trying to be a bully. Kind of hard for him to pull off when Don Young once called him "Captain Zero." )

[krispos42]

31. This will help

[Snoutport]

51. BRILLIANT!!! Did you make this chart??!

[krispos42]

52. Alas, no...I found it on DU or Fark back in 2008

I can't fault the logic of it, though!

[Ignis]

61. !

:spray:

[tanyev]

39. It became an issue again when she opened her yap to opine on the 'perplexing' issue of Obama's birth

You go, Snoutport.


:thumbsup:

[Mnemosyne]

40. She may be a 'joke' to some, but so was Raygun. The woman is dangerous, imho,

and bears close watching and taking notes.

Thanks for the thread, Snout! I understand. :hi:

[BobbyBoring]

47. Sarah Palin is as phony as a 6 dollar bill

The fact that so many think that she is A: a great American and B: Fit to be POTUS shows how screwed we really are.

This story should have been in the headlines of every paper in the "Lame Stream media". The media Palin critizes as it gives her pass after pass.


Americas biggest problem is we've become a nation of dumb asses.

[wovenpaint]

53. Kick

I agree! This is EXACTLY my position as well.
I'd love to see her slink off to her front porch for good, but she does have influence, like it or not. And this is not good.

[niyad]

63. too late to rec, will kick, though. you have some excellent points.

[Snoutport]

78. thank you kindly, lots of negative comments so appreciate that you read the past.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. Who?

Never heard of her.

And neither should you have. :hi:

[emilyg]

73. Don't care a bit.

[BoWanZi]

75. Stop giving this fucking woman lip service. It serves no purpose.