Police: Tree-poisoning suspect attacked

[babsbunny]

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Police-Auburn-Toomers-Corner-tree-poisoning-suspect-Harvey-Updyke-Jr-attacked-042011

Updated Apr 20, 2011 7:37 PM ET
OPELIKA, Ala. (AP)

The Alabama fan accused of poisoning landmark trees at Auburn's Toomer's Corner was assaulted at a gas station shortly after leaving the courthouse Wednesday, police said.

Auburn tree poisoning

Harvey Updyke Jr., 62, told an officer he was attacked when he stepped out of his car at a gas station on Birmingham Highway, according to Opelika Police Capt. Allan Elkins.

Updyke was punched in the head, and believes there was more than one person involved, but didn't see who did it, Elkins said. The gas station did not have surveillance video.

[Drale]

1. What did this guy expect was going to happen

He poisoned the trees out of spite, so of course someone is going to be looking to get him back. Some people get really into sports and he's probably lucky he wasn't stabbed or shot.

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. Horrible crime...the tree poisoning

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I normally hate vigilante justice...

I'm making an exception in this case.

:puke:

[mike_c]

4. well, I'll tell you what I'll do if I ever find out who attacked him....

I'll buy them a beer, that's what. Good on em'!

[Lex]

5. He's probably lying

about being attacked. Like that backwards-3 girl. He was punched in the head, there was more than one person but he didn't see who did it? He's trying to drum up a little sympathy for himself because everyone knows he's a shitheel.

[petronius]

33. That wouldn't surprise me. If it happened I disapprove but the story seems vague

If it did happen as he described, a big part of my disapproval stems from the sneak-attack nature - if you're gonna be a vigilante, at least do it face to face...

[Generic Other]

6. just out of curiosity how many black men were lynched on that tree?

I see several references to such actions at Toomer's Corner, Alabama in the last 100 years. FUCK the tree. It was already rotten to the core. "Strange fruit grows on Southern trees..."

[Lex]

8. yes, let's blame the tree

LOL

[Generic Other]

9. Let's make it a national monument and weep over it

Men were fucking lynched there. The tree is lucky to have survived this long!

[GoCubsGo]

11. Again, how is this the tree's fault?

Did it lynch those people--IF there were indeed lynchings, by itself???

[Generic Other]

12. The tree was poisoned way before some deranged fan destroyed it

I don't think making a gallows tree a monument to white pride and football is appropriate. If my relatives had been lynched there, the tree would have been destroyed long ago. It is a symbol of white hate and as such is forever as evil as the acts committed there.

Same reason I don't respect the cross or the flag as symbols.

[Lex]

16. Anyway you explain it, it's still not the tree's fault. nt

[Generic Other]

17. Of course you are correct...the tree is merely a quaint reminder of the past

and a symbol people have killed for, died for, and fought over. It has a weird history. I am able to find vague references to lynching (or an accusation that such occurred there), as well as 100s of recent comments expressing a desire to lynch the tree molester. I found it unsettling to read these. Most of the history has been scrubbed, removed from the internet for some reason.

This is "To Kill a Mockingbird" country. Excuse me for questioning the purpose of the sacred grove.

[Hugabear]

20. Nothing wrong with despising a symbol of hatred or oppression

For example, the Confederate flag or swastika. Both represent hatred and oppression, yet neither actually committed any acts of violence or hatred (as symbols, how could they).

[LisaL]

26. Please. There was never

any suggestion that these trees were poisoned because they "represent hatred and oppression."

[Withywindle]

54. A tree is not the same as a symbol on a piece of fabric.

It's a living thing that has a right to exist for its own sake, completely independent of whatever humans have done on it or around it.


I am the Lorax, etc., etc.

[Elwood P Dowd]

21. You have no record of lynching because there was none on these trees.

Stop the BS. It's suddenly been scrubbed from the internet? Your posts should be "scrubbed".

[Generic Other]

23. Are you sure?

There are minutes of a meeting in 1949 where the thing is discussed. The cache says lynching, Toomers Corner and Alabama. All posts relating to this information are no longer there, but the accusations are leveled elsewhere. I am not willing to retract the accusation (since I only asked the question anyway) without some historical reference stating unequivocally that no lynchings occurred there. The Tuskeegee Institute keeps records of lynchings. Perhaps they have information. I know upwards of 3000+ lynchings occurred in the South many in and around the Auburn area and directly across the border in Georgia. This is lynching country. Most books acknowledge that lynchings were more common than the historical record shows. Trees where huge mobs gather have histories in the South. That tree has 150 years of history. How old is the game of football? That old? The school rivalry is 150 years old?

I don't think my question is out of order. I also don't think I am wrong to say thousands called for the lynching of the man who molested the tree. I just googled lynching and the area. That info is not scrubbed. I also researched lynching in academic archives last night. Interesting and sordid history. A man named Jean Toomer wrote a fictional book on the subject called CANE. One of his pieces is called "The Corner." I certainly would like to read more. Harper Lee mentions Auburn in her novel "To Kill A Mockingbird."

Also there is a history of hanging folks in effigy there. Sorry, you can't scrub my suspicions, and I am not done researching.

As for Southerners scrubbing unpleasant facts from libraries, it happens. When Rose researched Storyville in NOLA, he found news articles cut out of the library archives, pages missing from books. The reason was that most of the pillars of the community traced their lineage to early denizens of Storyville. Upstanding citizens were embarrassed to be related to prostitutes.

Now I am not saying that happened at Toomer's Corners, but I certainly would like to read the books about the place. And the fact that there are thousands of hits advocating lynching the man who poisoned the trees does not leave a pleasant taste in my mouth.

So go ahead and shout at me. I will be in the college library digging up the facts.

[JoeyT]

28. I might be inclined to agree with you

if the trees had gone down as a "lynching spot" in history and that had anything to do with why he destroyed them. He destroyed them over a football rivalry. If they actually were a lynching spot, it would still be better to leave them where they are and stick a marker near them explaining exactly what went on there. Destroying the physical structures and landmarks used for lynching only assists those who would like to scrub history.

"The Corner" is a common phrase in Alabama. Every major city (and a lot of minor ones) have an area called that, so the story probably isn't about that specific corner.

[Generic Other]

32. Thanjs for clarifying that...I wonder if Toomer's Corner is though referring to the author?

I will continue to research. Have already sent my question to some college research librarians.

I was premature in leveling the accusation based on scant evidence and googling lynching and the trees. The main comments (1000s) concern lynching the tree poisoner.

Both schools have a legacy of racism, segregation, etc. What is odd is when you google places like Montgomery that one would expect to find a discussion of Southern racism, the wiki entries make very few mentions of the history. Now we all know that history exists. Yet oddly missing from the common references. So what does that say about the obscure histories?

If I am wrong for raising the question, then I owe the state of Alabama and Auburn University a big apology for suggesting they might have a legacy of racism and lynching in their past.

I may be making a phone call to the reference library at the school today to pose the very same questions.

[joeybee12]

29. Why don't you post a link or something credible...

instead of making things up?

[Generic Other]

34. google Toomer's Corner + lynching

I am not making things up. I am asking questions. Someone on Huffington Post did allege the tree was a spot where lynching occurred. I am curious. The accusation may be wrong. Do you know if it is?

I am not wrong that yopu get many hits with these google terms referring to lynching the tree poisoner. That makes me curious is all. I saw several sites that had dead links when I followed them. As I said, I am curious now. Aren't you?

[csziggy]

30. NEITHER Toomer's Corner or Auburn, Alabama are listed on the Lynching Calendar

Which is a list of African Americans who died in racial violence in the US 1865-1965. http://www.autopsis.org/foot/lynchplaces1.html

That page was last modified Monday, February 06, 2006 4:20:42 AM so it has not been scrubbed of any content in response to the rumors you are helping to spread.

[KittyWampus]

35. I have never seen that list codifying the places where AAs were lynched.

Powerful.

[Generic Other]

37. BUT historians do not believe the calendar is accurate

They acknowledge that lynchings were not always documented as they were vigilante crimes in nature (although some appear to have been sanctioned by local authorities).

I am not spreading rumors. I am asking tough questions no one appears to have the ability to answer. Why is there no "official history" for the 150 years of the tree's use as a gathering point? Usually such histories exist as a point of pride. I am a historian. I ask questions. I don't just accept easy answers. If I am wrong I should be able to be proven wrong easily.

A person on Huffington's Post said this: "God will not save the oaks at Toomer's Corner because God knows about the many lynchings that took place on those very trees." A very odd statement. It sparks my curiosity. Harper Lee mentions Auburn in her book. Both schools have a history of racism. I can find no discussion of the tree's history. I know stuff gets scrubbed.

Sorry you don't like the questions I am asking. I don't like lynch mob mentality either. Or hiding history that makes people look bad. Or hearing people across the internet calling for a modern-day lynching. Sorry if this offends you.

[Generic Other]

38. And the list is incomplete

Not every lynching was recorded. These were not always publically sanctioned events.

[Erose999]

43. Well now the tree is associated with college football and most of the Auburn team is Black.

You talk about history being scrubbed, but you are the one who says let the trees die. Reminders of the past injustices are not always bad... they keep us from forgetting.

Case in point - a lot of buildings in the South still have the seperate facilities from when they are segregated, but have found new functions for them. One restaurant building here in Athens, GA has 4 separate single occupancy restrooms in a row next to eachother - the place that occupies that space now (the Grit) has designated them all as gender neutral so that no one has to wait for a restroom.

[Generic Other]

46. I was wrong to say anything negative about a tree

I was not wrong to question the legacy of history or to note that 1000s wish to form a lynch mob over the death of the tree. That is a googleable fact. Whether the tree has a more dark history is a question I raised. And I have been duly chastised for daring to do so.

As a result, I want to find the answer now.

I have read a bit about the history of the two schools now. Not exactly easing my mind on the legacy of racism at Alabama colleges.

"University Of Alabama Racism Brings Back Bad Memories" http://newsone.com/nation/associatedpress3/university-of-alabama-racist-incidents-brings-back-bad-memories/

So at U of A it is still a problem as this article points out. The sororities are still segregated (by choice we are told), faculty have apologized for having kept slaves in the past, racial tensions are ongoing today on the campus. This is the school where Governor George wallace stood in the doorway in 1963 to prevent black students from enrolling.

University of Auburn from 2001:
Jim Crow on Fraternity Row - Auburn University

At Halloween parties on Oct. 25 and 27, members of the two fraternities were photographed wearing blackface and Ku Klux Klan robes. Some members even went so far as to simulate the lynching of a member in blackface who was wearing a T-shirt bearing the name FUBU. (The FUBU line of clothing was created by African Americans and marketed "FOR US BY US.") Other members in blackface were dressed in shirts bearing the Greek letters of Omega Psi Phi, Auburn's oldest black fraternity.

http://www.blackwebportal.com/wire/DA.cfm?ArticleID=392

Calling me out as some sort of bigot as some have upthread seems like throwing stones at glass houses, don't you think?

[Erose999]

47. I didn't cll you a bigot - at all. The point of my post was that even though the tree may have been

used for some awful things and may represent some awful symbolism in the eyes of awful people... doesn't mean it should be chopped down. You say that we shouldn't "scrub history". Well cutting down this tree would be part of the "scrubbing history".

I mean we need physical reminders of the past, they serve a purpose in that they keep us from forgetting. For example, I think it would be remiss if a tour of a historical re-enactment village had the slavery scrubbed from it. To me that would be just as egregious as the GOP politicians in the South who are trying to have slavery removed from the history textbooks.

[Elwood P Dowd]

15. Toomer's Corner, Alabama? The trees are located at Auburn University in Auburn, Alabama.

Toomer's Corner is the intersection where the trees live. Never heard of any lynchings at Auburn.

[WatsonT]

25. Well that was an . . . interesting tangent.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Generic Other]

39. Flame bait?

No. The Alabama-Georgia border area has a history of lynchings and associations with trees that are historic gathering places. 1000s are calling for the lynching of a tree poisoner in this very place. I don't have the right to ask the questions? By whose reckoning?

I know football and white pride trumps all else in the South still, but that aint the way it works in the rest of the United States. Sorry to hurt your feelings.

[cordelia]

41. Yes, flame bait

Your statement about football and white pride demonstrates for all to see your bigotry and ignorance.

[Generic Other]

44. There are no giant confederate flags flying from my statehouse

there is no history of racism and white supremacy in my state. There is an ugly ugly history of labor struggle. The Wobbly wars in Centralia Washington are not pretty (castrations, murders, lynchings). It is in the public record and no one denies it happened.

Some Southerners are bent on deni=ying this part of their history. The Texas textbook commission has consistently relegated discussions of civil rights and MLK to a single sentence or paracgraph in high school textbooks when they allow that much. Japanese textbooks try to downplay their brutality in WW2 while focusing on the atomic bombs. A bit slanted in the revision of the history.

Are you saying there is no such cover-up of Southern atrocities? I am neither bigoted or ignorant. I am asking questions after reading 1000s of comments online suggesting using the tree to lynch a man. Are you saying this is not a Southern legacy? It certainly occurred with great frequency in the West. Horse thieves were lynched quite often without benefit of due process.

I don't see how asking questions and pointing out holes in stories makes me bigoted and ignorant. I think some of you protest too much because you don't like facing the reality.

[cordelia]

48. You made this statement:

"I know football and white pride trumps all else in the South still, but that aint the way it works in the rest of the United States. Sorry to hurt your feelings."

That is a bigoted statment, and extraordinarily stupid.

As far as coverups? Probably.

Your state has no racism? Horseshit. Racism exists in all states.

[Generic Other]

51. As I said the legacy of treatment of Native Americans is a disgrace

so yes, we have terrible history. Our treatment of Chinese was equally horrible. I am not saying it doesn't exist everywhere. But when I was in Tampa, I drove under the world's largest Confederate flag. Several statehouses still fly that flag even when many African Americans object such a symbol of the past still being respected.

I am really not trying to be mean. I think the South is a vibrant amazing place culturally. I admire Southern women for all manner of reasons. They speak their minds. I love this about them!

It is not bigoted to say some issues still exist.

[RT Atlanta]

52. You arent hurting my feelings

You're using the tree episode to project your own feelings on the South and dislike for the sports past times in this region.

Where is the documented history of lynchings from the oak trees at the intersection of College and Magnolia in Auburn Alabama? Follow up with some some evidence to support your statements - if it happened, I would like to educate myself on this. But as it stands now, I seriously doubt it as I have never heard any mention of this whatsoever (having graduated from Auburn).

On edit:

Apologies for my removed comment as it was certainly a "heat of passion" comment - having struck a raw nerve with me. That's certainly no excuse, however, for my choice of language, which should've reflected a little more decorum.

[Generic Other]

56. Obviously the whole episode struck a nerve with me and you

Different nerves. You can say anything you like to me. I am a big enough girl to take it (or I will try and bluff you to believe I am while I cry). I made comments about your school and state which you felt necessary to defend and I asked for. That is the natu8re of discourse and disagreement. I regret sounding disagreeable while disagreeing.

My comments were made based on reading the 1000s of current google hits about lynching the tree poisoner and seeing the comments on DU (none of which were as bad as comments on the net about what should happen to the deranged fan). That is why I started wondering about the history of the tree at all. I am not trying to bash the South. I am interested in the tree's history as it pertains to this awful story of the school rivalries. I sent an email to the school's reference librarian to ask my question. No response yet.

I obviously plowed into this subject in the wrong way as I always do leading with my sharp tongue and not thinking about the angry response I might get. The past is the past as far as I am concerned and I realize lots of all our histories are negative. It doesn't mean the present need be a repeat of that past. The lynch talk sounded exactly like 1963 to me. It was scary and I was dumbfounded that so many seemed ready to start WW3 over a tree, a tree killer and football yet these same people would say nary a peep when our military kills innocent people across the ME.

I want to say once again, I do not hate the South nor do I mean to bash it. Faulkner is one of my favorite authors. Appalachian music folk music is my favorite music. I loved the time I spent in the South. I would give anything to have the social graces and outspokenness of Southern women.

But I reject the bad stuff especially if it is still happening. I reject racism directed at Obama and other African Americans. I hate racism and fight it with all my being. I don't just keep my silence if by doing so I see it perpetuating injustice.

[WilliamPitt]

42. Jesus.

(facepalm) for South-bashing, cuz no Black men were ever harmed north of the Mason-Dixon.

Fail.

[Generic Other]

50. Come on Will you know that's not true

The West has a history of lynching equal to any Southern state. The difference was most of those lynchings were not racially motivated. And the histopry books acknowledge the shameful history. Westerners' horrible treatment of Native Americans is equal to any bad treatment of African Americans. Again, I am not South bashing. I grew up with Southerners as a military brat. My father was part of a Southern unit. Fort Campbell, Kentucky. 100th Division.

Most of my friends were Southerners. I have loved ones there. But I think my questions are valid. Google the tree and lynching. See how many people are advocating lynching the tree killer. Are you really surprised I then ask the question about the tree's past? I am surprised at how easily Alabamans distance themselves from their past. Being ashamed of that past may be the reason. But it is unfair to slam people who ask questions.

I say we ask why lynching is the first thing people start screaming about when the tree is harmed. And additionally, why references to Southern racism are somewhat downplayed online, and that people are bashed for discussing it.

I am not trying to judge people in the present for events in the past. The current calls for lynching are form 2011. Racism is still endemic at both schools. And so too at Harvard and in Boston (Ask Prof. Gates). It doesn't mean everyone in these places are bad people who support that legacy. It just means it is there.

And nowhere did I suggest violence/racism against black males is restricted to the South. That would be a pathetic and foolish claim.

[Ganja Ninja]

45. Yes because we all know there isn't a tree in Alabama that hasn't had a black man ...

strung up on it at some point.:eyes:

[Generic Other]

49. We are talking about a tree that has in recent months

been the subject of lynch talk. And yes there are many many trees in Alabama associated with lynchings. At least 300+ according to the record of known lynchings that were officially recorded. Roll your eyes at someone else, my friend.

The South lost the war between the states, they instituted Jim Crow, the KKK (in some Southern areas 100% of the white folks were members), that they lynched black men, that they segregated their society, institutionalized racism and discriminated against African Americans. That many continue to do so. That a tree is poisoned and 1000s on the internet call for a lynching.

That being said, I also admire the South in other areas. Their genteel traditions, beautiful culture and friendly outgoing people are the one redeeming fact and also a legacy of the hard history.

To refuse to acknowledge the past often means repeating its mistakes. You can't deny this does happen sometimes.

I am going back to do more indepth research on Judge Lynch and his Southern legacy. Sorry that upsets you. And as you say, I do not expect to find every tree was a lynching tree. If I do, I will be more shocked than I am now about the weird internet reaction to the tree's demise.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Hee-hee.

I'm sure there was more than a few conservatives among those tree huggers.

[al_liberal]

10. Punched in the head?

All I can say as an Illinoisan is to hell with both AU and AL. Sure, it's terrible that this SOB deliberately killed those trees, but after all, they are trees. These people are completely obsessed with throwing toilet paper onto anything. They throw it onto the field if Bama wins, onto those dying trees if Auburn wins. I'm thinking it would be a good thing if they found some new traditions that didn't involve ass paper.

[Egalitariat]

14. Auburn and Alabama's newest traditions are polishing their National Championship trophies

[QC]

27. Alabama's first national championship (of thirteen) was in 1925.

Polishing those trophies might well be a tradition, but it's not a particularly new one.

[pipi_k]

40. "...but after all, they are trees..."

Those words, in my house, would start a fight.


I live in the woods. Trees of all kinds surround my home. I love trees. When I see them being cut down (for any reason) I am sick and disgusted.

Mr Pip knows how to push my buttons, too. He'll sometimes say he needs to cut down a few more trees for the satellite dishes, or because the blueberry bushes aren't getting enough sun (even though they've been out there 20 years at least and doing fine).


They're more than just trees.

They give us shade in the summer. Where I live it's almost 10 degrees cooler than down in the city because of the forest. We run the AC for two weeks in mid-August and that's it. They hold the soil in place. They provide homes for birds and small animals. They cleanse the air.

And in the Autumn, they put on a most spectacular show.

As for the toilet paper...I think it's kind of fun actually.

Halloween around here is rather festive. Somehow, even with tons of people on the lookout, the kids in town manage to festoon the trees lining the main streets with streams of TP.

At least it's biodegradable. Way better than people throwing their laced-together sneakers over power lines or hurling beer cans and bottles out their car windows. Kids...let 'em have their TP fun...

:7

[JonLP24]

53. I don't think

any of that justifies beating someone up over (if that is what happened), especially when he hasn't been convicted.(yet)

[Motown_Johnny]

13. No video, No witnesses and he didn't see who did it

Come on...

Is anyone buying this?

[SusanaMontana41]

22. I hope it's true, fwiw. n/t

[lonestarnot]

18. Good. I was hoping someone would beat his ass for killing trees. Idiot.

[Canuckistanian]

19. That's a shame

Arboricidal maniacs deserve their rights, too.

[LisaL]

24. It would appear that some people sure love their trees.

[KittyWampus]

36. When our apple tree went down in a Nor'Easter I wept and went out afterwards and

gently told the remains of our friend how much we loved her apples and all the pies we made from her fruit.

Just the way so many people feel their pets are part of their families- that's how I consider our trees.

[snagglepuss]

55. I feel exactly the same.

O dreamy, gloomy, friendly Trees,
I came along your narrow track
To bring my gifts unto your knees
And gifts did you give back;
For when I brought this heart that burns--
These thoughts that bitterly repine--
And laid them here among the ferns
And the hum of boughs divine,
Ye, vastest breathers of the air,
Shook down with slow and mighty poise
Your coolness on the human care,
Your wonder on its toys,
Your greenness on the heart's despair,
Your darkness on its noise.



- Frederic Herbert Trench