Caller to Hartmann (and Bernie Sanders) - time to stop playing fair?

[Doctor_J]

Excellent topic. Caller (paraphrase) - "We're losing the country to these liars & criminals. Isn't it time we started cheating too?"

Bernie:"Need to start working smarter, not cheating..." Then a bunch of the same old refrain about "banks are too big, media conglomerates are too big, need to break them up, yada, yada, ...". I wish the caller had hung on for a follow-up:"Yeah, but those things aren't going to happen - they're getting worse, not better."

[Ilsa]

1. I've been feeling the same lately as the caller.

Playing honest and fair hasn't gotten me very far. It seems like the only winners are the cheaters, liars, and crooks.

Problem is, I dont know how to cheat and get away with it or without hurting anyone innocent.

[Cleita]

6. Good for you!

I think the not hurting anyone innocent is where you are drawing the line. You know it's not the right way to go. Look, I think of the fortune I could have made by investing in Halliburton and other stocks fueled by war when Bush came to office. I was getting offers from various financial services in my email and I knew it was blood money so I didn't. I have a diminishing retirement nest egg and asked my broker to find some solar energy stock to invest in back in 2008 before the election. He advised me to invest in BP. I knew that this company had a terrible environmental record so I said thanks, but no thanks. This time I didn't lose money. I could use extra money and not have to work at my age but my conscience would never have rested if I had done those war investments. Yours wouldn't either.

[Cleita]

2. Cheating only turns us into them and we still won't be

achieving our goals because that will attract more crooks into our leadership than are already there. Just look at what has happened to the Republicans. Their leadership would have been considered gangsters in another era. There has to be a better way. We are disorganized and need to organize into efficient grass roots power machines.

[handmade34]

3. listening now

thinking, we really, really need direction and need to get the ball rolling... and no, just getting everybody voting is not the answer...

[dana_b]

5. agreed - voting is the absolute bare minimum

Kind of like breathing - there shouldn't even be a thought about it. I think we need to get involved in organizations that we support and try to get the organizations to connect to and support each other.

[Taverner]

4. We keep saying its time to fight fire with fire

But every election is the same: they cheat, we apologize

[Lint Head]

7. We need to stop bringing words to a gunfight.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. Yes. Fuck the high road.

Although, descended from Molly McGuires, I lack the imagination to really use cheating effectively.

[wellst0nev0ter]

9. I Dunno About Cheating, But Democrats Should At Least Stop Shooting Themselves In The Foot

Like take that bullshit ACORN defunding bill that pretty much destroyed the organization that was instrumental in registering new voters in 2008, voters who vote Democratic which was why ACORN was targeted in the first place. And because there was no ACORN this year, the vote turnout of Democratic constituents was suppressed.

So I think we would be going in the right direction if we get rid of each and every single one of those Lieberdems that voted for the ACORN bill of attainder in the first place. I don't care if the vote is lopsided 83-7 in the Senate, 345-75, that would go a long way in dredging the swamp in Washington so we can finally get a fresh start.