If it is OK for a State government to establish a position that can overrule local government,

[Bandit]

Why wouldn't it be legal on the same grounds for Obama top create a Czar to go to say Michigan and declare their finances to be so dire an "Emergency" financial manager/Czar needs to go in and disband the State government and then tell the state how it is going to do things? Texas would be another Prime target since their finances are extremely bad....In fact virtually Every single Republican controlled state is in financial dire straights. Pose that question to any Tea Bagger friends you may have..

[tridim]

1. The teabaggers I know don't have a clue what's happening in Michigan

They don't know/care what is going on outside of their neighborhood.

[MineralMan]

2. No, it's not OK.

It may well be legal, though. That's the real issue.

For your example, though, the Constitution wouldn't allow the Federal government to take over a state. Not a chance. Within a state, though, it would depend on the state constitution. Many things are possible in states that you wouldn't imagine.

[elleng]

3. Thanks for this, MM; took my words (but better!)

[TaylorWatts]

4. If I were Obama, I wouldn't topple MI, but I would order (militarily if needed) the MI

governor to relinquish control over that MI town.

[MineralMan]

5. You have no idea what you're talking about, actually.

President Obama has no such power, and could not do what you describe. The President of The United States has no power whatever over the Governor of any state.

Now, the Attorney General could investigate, but that's about it.

Do read the Constitution of The United States. It's worth the half an hour it takes.

[TaylorWatts]

17. Constitution doesn't matter when you've got the soldiers

[MineralMan]

18. What soldiers are you talking about?

In fact, what are you talking about at all? Soldiers? They all work for the government, you know.

[cleanhippie]

6. Why does a mayor/city council allow it to happen?

If I was a mayor or on a city council, I would simply say "I do not recognize your authority to overrule the will of the people" and continue on with city business. If the Governor really wanted to enforce these gestapo tactics, I would make him/her send in the State Police to forcibly remove us from our positions, then watch as the (I would hope) state/nation erupts in anger.....


I guess I just do not understand why these elected official just roll over and take it.

[MineralMan]

8. Because there's a state law that allows that action.

That's why. Cities operate under state law. They are not actually as independent as you suppose. It's not right, but that's the fact of the situation.

Actually most states have some means of dealing with cities that are insolvent or being run by corrupt city councils. Check your own state Constitution. Odds are your own state has some similar provision in it's laws about city formation and government. City government is subject to the state in every state I know about.

It's important to understand how this stuff is laid out in the laws of each state. Check your own state.

[cleanhippie]

11. No, I get that part, but question how reaching the powers are.

I understand that if a city becomes insolvent, an emergency financial manager can step in - to get the finances in order.

I know that I am simply spouting off, but how does an emergency financial manager get the authority to dissolve the mayor and city council, and then control all of the city departments, including Police and Fire? I guess it would depend on the level of civil disobedience the mayor/council is willing to apply. If the Police Chief/Sheriff is on board with the Mayor/council, it is not feasible that the city could have a "mini-revolution" and then force the Governor to send in State Police by declaring Marshal Law?

I guess my point with this is, that unless the Mayor/council makes a stink and forces harsher action by the Governor, this will never get the attention it needs and deserves.

[MineralMan]

14. It all depends on the laws of a particular state.

For example, in many states, a city that drops below a certain population is automatically dissolved and becomes unincorporated.

In any state, incorporation of cities is a state function, generally laid out in the state's Constitution. Since it is a state function, a city's corporate charter can be dissolved by the state. How that is done is different in each state. In many, it requires legislative action. In others, other methods are in place. In Michigan, a new law lets the Governor do it. Laws. They're complex, but that's how it all works.

The federal government has no power whatever over cities.

[cleanhippie]

15. I do know about that last part.

And thanks for the good info, I needed it.

[Deep13]

7. 10th Amendment

States and the Feds have organic, constitutional authority. Cities are creatures of state law.

[MineralMan]

9. Exactly.

Cities are incorporated under the laws of the state they're in. The state has the means to dissolve those corporations in certain circumstances. Cities have no rights, per se, other than the ones in their state. They're not covered anywhere in the U.S. Constitution. Only states are mentioned in that document, and it gives states very, very broad powers.

[MineralMan]

10. We definitely need better civics classes in our schools, apparently.

Lots of lack of knowledge in these discussions.

[cleanhippie]

12. Agreed, and I am one that is lacking.

But hey, its events like this that make many of if sit up and take notice, then get educated.

[handmade34]

13. not only better

we just need civics classes period... I am shocked by the number of schools that don't even teach civics anymore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLP_HGKq-jg

[damntexdem]

16. Cities are creatures of their states, but ...

it seems that this would violate voters' rights -- replacing elected officials with appointees on a whim. It would seem that reasonable courts would rule that simply declaring a financial emergency, with no supporting data, would be insufficient to overrule the voters. But, then, instead of reasonable courts, we have the current SCOTUS and a largely-GOP-appointed appellate judiciary.