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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 04:59 PM
Original message
Libyan Revolution Day 66
Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-24">AJE Live Blog April 24 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/libya">The Guardian http://uk.reuters.com/places/libya">Reuters http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/">Telegraph http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x944376">Day 65 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixwx_B38678">Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!


Free Libyan Women

Photograph: Patrick Baz/AFP/Getty Images



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/23/libya-benghazi-gaddafi-revolution">Dispatch from Libya: the courage of ordinary people standing up to Gaddafi
...

Few revolutions have been more inspiring. After years of reporting uprisings and conflicts driven by ideology, factional interests or warlords soaked in blood — from El Salvador to Somalia, Congo and Liberia – Libya's uprising seems to me more akin to South Africa's liberation from apartheid. For a start, the once pervasive fear of a hated regime is gone.

From the first days, scores of enthusiastic young revolutionaries, high on the prospect of looming victory, indulged the newfound freedom to finally say what they thought. They churned out screeds listing the dictator's crimes and posters caricaturing Gaddafi as a common thief and agent of Mossad. Some posters imagined him on trial before the international criminal court or strung up on one of the gallows used for public hangings to terrorise the Libyan population.

Revolutionary committees sprang up. Among them was one charged with getting the message to the outside world that Libya 2011 was not Tehran 1979. The savvy revolutionary activists watching CNN and news websites were not slow in recognising the fearmongering in parts of the US media and Congress over what kind of revolution this was.

Almost the only foreigners in Benghazi during the early days of the revolution were journalists. We were feted with free coffee in cafés and regularly stopped on the street and thanked for coming. But reporters were also quizzed by Libyans who picked up on the talk about Islamic extremists hijacking the revolution. Where, they wondered, did the idea of al-Qaeda in Libya come from? Couldn't people see what kind of revolution this is?


Very powerful article. Shows the revolution, how it began.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/04/201141885827731124.html">The 'grand lions' of Libya
...

In a Misurata medical clinic lays one of Gaddafi's fighters. The 19-year-old boy, who does not want his identity revealed, was a student of electrical engineering in Tripoli. When the fighting started and his lessons were cancelled he says he was forced to join Gaddafi's troops.

"We were kept locked in the camp and trained for two weeks and then they took us to the battalion," he explains.

Told only that they would be fighting foreign mercenaries, they were brought to Misurata, he recounts. When they came under heavy fire from the rebels, their officer turned and ran. The boy followed and says his own brigade shot him.

"The instructions were that nobody should go back. I lay on the ground bleeding for one-and-a-half hours," he says.

...


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/23/uk-libya-idUKLDE71Q0MP20110423">Libya troops retreat in Misrata, rebels claim victory
Rebels in Misrata claimed victory as Libyan government troops retreated from front lines, in what appeared to be a significant setback for Muammar Gaddafi's forces hastened by NATO air strikes.

Misrata, the last large city held by rebels in western Libya, had been under a punishing government siege for nearly two months and hundreds of civilians have died in the fighting.

"We have been told to withdraw. We were told to withdraw yesterday," a government soldier captured by rebels, Khaled Dorman, told Reuters on Saturday from the back of a pickup truck.

He was among 12 wounded soldiers brought by rebels to hospital in Misrata, 200 km (130 miles) east of Tripoli. Blasts and machinegun fire could be heard in the distance.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/23/uk-libya-rape-idUKTRE73M1SR20110423">Charity says children raped during Libya conflict
Children as young as eight have been sexually assaulted during the conflict between rebels trying to oust the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and forces loyal to him, a British charity said on Saturday.

Save The Children said it had spoken to nearly 300 children in six temporary camps in rebel-held Benghazi and heard reports of rapes and murders committed within the last four weeks in Ras Lanuf, Ajdabiyah and Misrata.

Michael Mahrt, who carried out the assessment, said the families and children spoke of "soldiers" committing the assaults, but the charity could not say which side they came from.

In one case mothers who had fled the fighting told the charity that a group of four or five teenage girls in Ajdabiyah had been abducted, held hostage for four days and raped.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/23/uk-libya-tunisia-border-idUKTRE73M1L320110423">Gaddafi troops seize western town
Muammar Gaddafi's forces captured a main town in the Libya's remote Western Mountains Saturday, a rebel spokesman said.

"Gaddafi brigades seized control of the (Yafran) town centre and we are currently in nearby villages," the spokesman, who identified himself as Ezref, told Al Arabiya television.

"They are firing mortars and Grad missiles," he said, adding that he had counted more than 44 Grad rockets fired in one hour.

Rebels had been rushing supplies to the area, largely cut off from the outside world in recent weeks because of attacks by Gaddafi's forces, two days after seizing a border crossing with Tunisia in the region.




http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html">Click here for updated map


Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWwOeZqz6M

Sky News went with Gaddafi minders to find a "civilian town bombed" only they were never shown any such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5KJavfiQo

TNC presser talking about various details of the revolution (thanks to Waiting for Everyone): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=730234&mesg_id=731532

Topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths that they are treated poorly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x594751

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context:

The Battle of Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0vChMDuNd0

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaPnMnpCAA

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzwQvcx62s

Tea of Freedom Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5tu5bJWKc

Latest indiscriminate shelling in Misurata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop3C4zrPXI

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x677397">Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada: http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110317/cf-libya-canada/20110317/?hub=WinnipegHome">Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission Norway: http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFOSN00509220110318">Norway to join military intervention in Libya Belgium: http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/monde/2011-03-18/la-belgique-prete-a-une-operation-militaire-en-libye-828970.php">Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya Qatar and the UAE: http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/776/?SID=e80884adc09a37d26904578a9b5978cb">Run-up for Western world’s next military commitment ... with unusual support Denmark: http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51229-denmark-ready-for-action-against-gaddafi.html">Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi France: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp">Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’ Italy: http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE72G2HE20110317">Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source United Kingdom: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467">Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote United States: http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nations-draw-up-plans-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-1.2765122">Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya Jordan: http://www.smh.com.au/world/military-strikes-on-libya-within-hours-20110318-1bzii.html?from=smh_sb">Military strikes on Libya 'within hours' Spain: http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/19/2801s627320.htm">Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi


(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

http://jenkinsear.com/2011/03/19/a-legal-war-the-united-nations-participation-act-and-libya/">A Legal War: The United Nations Participation Act and Libya
The above link is to an overview of why Obama's implementation of the NFZ and R2P is perfectly legal under the law. I will not post it entirely here, however, all objections come down to the misinformed position that Obama, by using forces in Libya, was invoking Article 43 of the United Nations. This is wrong. Obama invoked Article 42, which does not require congressional approval to implement. Proof of this is that Article 43 has http://www.un.org/en/sc/repertoire/actions.shtml#rel5">never been used.

It goes like this: The US law (Title 22, Chap. 7, Subchap. XIV § 287d) grants the President the right to invoke UN Article 42 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode22/usc_sec_22_00000287---d000-.html">without authorization, the War Powers Act (Title 50, Chap. 33 § 1541) grants the President permission to act without authorization under http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/50/1541–1548.html">"specific statutory authorization" which, by definition, is what 287d does. § 1543 of the War Powers Act requires the President to report to Congress, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/obama_explains_libya_mission_to_congress/2011/03/03/ABU9377_blog.html">which he did. One can argue all day and night about the legality of the War Powers Act, doesn't change the fact that under the law as it is written, the President acted within the law.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/2011/03/2011328194855872276.html">Libyan Karzai? Chalabi? Forget it
Fortunately, the Council wasn't made-in-the-USA or manufactured by another foreign power. Rather it came into existence, a month ago, at Libyans' own initiative, soon after the winds of revolutionary change blew Libya's way, and after its people rose to the occasion with pride and courage.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/03/31/getting_libyas_rebels_wrong">Getting Libya's Rebels Wrong
Don't buy Qaddafi's line: The rebels aren't al Qaeda.


http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/04/04/110404taco_talk_anderson#ixzz1HvS7iW22">Who Are the Rebels?
During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shabab—the young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and black—the suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/29/vision-democratic-libya-interim-national-council">A vision of a democratic Libya
The interim national council, formed by opposition groups in Libya, has said it will hold free and fair elections and draft a national constitution. Here is its eight-point plan in full.


http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2011/04/20/left-slipping-towards-qaddafi">The left: slipping towards Qaddafi?
When the revolt against Qaddafi started in Libya, hardly anyone on the left — however broadly defined — could say anything in defence of Qaddafi.

With the start of the "no-fly zone", many on the left started to sideline the issues within Libya and focus their efforts on denouncing NATO.

Now the denunciation of NATO, in turn, is acting as a lever to introduce defence of Qaddafi and denunciation of the rebels into broad-left discourse.

Everything is done by insinuation and sarcasm, just as old-style Stalinists used to deflect criticism of the USSR by studied wondering whether the regime was quite as bad as extreme Western right-wingers used to say, or whether the right-wingers' motives for criticism might be suspect.



Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began


I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child, she had http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/23/a_bright_voice_from_libyas_darkness">this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Current time in Libya, 12:00am Sunday, April 24
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Documenting Conflict in Misurata, Libya Using High-Resolution Satellite Imagery (must see)
http://shr.aaas.org/geotech/libya/libya.shtml">Documenting Conflict in Misurata, Libya Using High-Resolution Satellite Imagery
The present conflict in Libya began in mid-February 2011 as a wave of protests in cities across the country. In some cities, such as the eastern cities of Benghazi and Tobruk, protesters have taken over all aspects of local governance and remain in control. In other cities, such as the western city of Zawiya, military forces have reinstated the authority of the central government. The focus of this report is Misurata, Libya's third largest city, which is located on the northwestern coast of the country. Since early March, government forces and protesters in Misurata have continued to clash. Furthermore, since 23 March, Misurata also has been the target of airstrikes conducted by international forces. The conflict in Misurata has led to reports of heavy fighting, widespread indiscriminate shelling, and numerous civilian casualties. To investigate the veracity and details of these reports, Amnesty International-USA requested the assistance of the Geospatial Technologies and Human Rights Project of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

Imagery acquired on 4 March shows evidence of a citywide effort to erect improvised defensive positions. These were visible as checkpoints and barricades made from disabled vehicles, tires, and large piles of sand placed across major intersections and at the entrances to residential neighborhoods. While isolated burn marks on some arterial roadways suggest that minor skirmishes had taken place on the outskirts of the city at this time, most of the area appeared to be largely unaffected by fighting. Despite the many improvised checkpoints, cars were still visible on the streets of downtown Misurata. No significant damage was observed to buildings or infrastructure in the city, and the number of vehicles parked at the city's hospitals1 was similar to the number present in Google Earth's imagery from 2004, indicative of relatively normal activity.

Over the weekend of 5-6 March, according to media reports and eyewitness accounts from within the city, government forces mounted a major offensive to retake the city, involving tanks and heavy artillery. This offensive is reported to be ongoing as of 20 April. Imagery acquired by AAAS from the morning of 28 March reveals tanks and armored vehicles present along the main street in downtown Misurata, including in front of the medical technical college and empty central hospital, consistent with reports of those facilities being used as a base of operations (Figure 1).

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thanks to tabatha for finding this very objective report.
The marketplace before and after is the most appalling to me. Though several Tripoli Street shots are also pretty remarkable.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Thanks for that article where the situation is compared
Edited on Sat Apr-23-11 05:14 PM by tabatha
to South Africa. People try to compare the Libyan situation to just about anything that takes their fancy rather than any facts. I think Libya is unique - few rulers have been like Gaddafi. Idi Amin comes to mind, although Piet Botha was pretty bad.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. K/R -- Libya Hurra -- !!
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. FYI -- People are Unrecc'ing These Threads
I recc'd and it stayed at zero. Was wondering why the totals had gone down recently. I have recc'd every one of these threads to keep them on the Greatest page.

I normally don't post about people's recs or unrecs, but I just don't understand this, even for those who don't support US intervention.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Just an ongoing demoralization effort.
No worries. :hi:

(Unlike the previous poster I don't do these for "recs".)
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yes. That is true.
I once rec'd and it stayed at zero. On Friday, the recs went up to 13, and ended up at 5. There must be Gaddafi supporters on the board. It does not bother me. I find the posts incredibly interesting and useful; I am also chuffed to be in the company of such fine posters.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. tabatha, thanks so much for your (and Iterates!) posts today.
It's been a relatively slow day today (always tends to be on weekends) but I felt bad for not being here until later in the day (can only do errands on weekends since I work after almost everything closes).
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No worries. You do plenty.
I interweave it between other activities. I am very lucky with access, but I would not do it if I was not interested.

Iterate is fantastic, and has my admiration, too.

I don't know how you do what you do. Please, please do not forfeit your sleep.

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. It is a curious thing.
but you can't click away views and those are always among the highest of the day. Or you could say that it takes 20+ to show 10+ (with 10-), so it's still 2-1 support. It's also interesting to watch it fluctuate for a day during those semi-idle moments. Time zones seem to matter quite a lot.

Anyway, thanks for the compliment in the other post(blush), but don't just think of yourself as being "in the company" when you're actually providing the drive and inspiration as well as leading in finding so many great posts (you'll never know how many wide-eyed jaw-dropping events you cause when those articles are opened). I think DU would do better by a simple civil "Thank You" button, but it's not so hard to say it: thank you, and thank you josh. Thanks to all who post here in good faith, even the rascal pinboy3niner.

I've never done one of those icon bits...hang on...there C&P :thumbsup: Ah first ever. Remarkable. You'd never know I started with hypertext in the mid 80's, but it's true.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. 80's - wow that was probably amongst the first.
I did my first web site in 1998, part time. I have a lot yet to learn (C++ is my full time job) - e.g. how does Josh find the # points in the Al Jazeera blogs?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Libya: 'If people in Misrata put down their guns, Gaddafi will kill all of us'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/24/libya-misrata-gaddafi-uprising-rebels">Libya: 'If people in Misrata put down their guns, Gaddafi will kill all of us'
...

Ibrahim had been on a street near the city centre with friends when a column of tanks suddenly advanced, firing. A shell exploded close to them. The photograph showed his torso, his right leg, and mangled flesh where his left thigh used to be. Bleeding heavily, he was brought to the private clinic that now serves as a trauma hospital. Doctors who a few weeks earlier had rarely seen a bullet wound had to make a quick decision. They amputated his left leg just below the hip to save his life. Ibrahim grimaced slightly as he stood up, and then said: "What happened to me is nothing compared to others who have given their lives."

This is the spirit of Misrata, a besieged city that has resisted everything that Gaddafi has thrown at it for more than two months, thanks to the solidarity and fierce determination of its people.

That spirit was epitomised on Saturday during fierce battles that saw some of the last of the government's troops in the city centre killed or captured. Having being forced out of their base in the city's vegetable market, a contingent of Gaddafi's forces is now surrounded in a hospital they have used as a base for more than a month.

The rest of the troops are gathered on the southern outskirts of the city. The rebels even claimed that the tables had been turned on Gaddafi's forces. Misrata is not free, but it may not be that far away. But the ground gained came at a heavy cost. While dozens of Gaddafi's fighters were killed, at least 24 rebel fighters and civilians died. More than 70 injured people arrived at the hospital.

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. African migrant workers leave Misrata worried about future
African migrant workers leave Misrata worried about future
Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:39pm GMT

MISRATA, Libya, April 23 (Reuters) - Some of the African migrant workers who boarded a ferry on Saturday to flee the city of Misrata had been stranded in its port for five weeks waiting to escape.

But after finally being transported to a dock by the hundreds on dump trucks, many of the men, their blankets and meagre belongings in sacks, were anxious over the future.

There is little chance of getting a job back home -- and the challenge of travelling to another country after the Red Star 1 reaches Benghazi could be overwhelming following the pressures of civil war between rebels forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi.

"I only managed to stay here a year. I was making money. I was saving," said Hoza Muazim, 27, who worked in a tile factory and earned the equivalent of about $350 a month, far more than he can ever make in Niger.

continue...

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73M04T20110423?sp=true

Remarkable stories. It's hard to say what they can do next, but at least they made it out.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Apparently we're backing the wrong rebels...
Edited on Sat Apr-23-11 05:30 PM by Davis_X_Machina
...and there are *real* rebels out there we should be backing....

The things you learn here.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yeah, the original rebels in Benghazi...
...oh oops the same ones that marched asking for UN intervention.

That thread is one clusterfuck, thanks for showing it to me and proving to me that I can avoid rhetorical dishonest debates.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yep, I just gave up on that one.
My head hurt too much. How can there be so much ignorance?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I skimmed it.
My favorite bit was the dishonest characterization that the rebels "didn't want intervention" despite that they protested for it for days:

Benghazi rally thanks coalition for air strikes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myV4-9EU5JU

Benghazi celebrates UN resolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c50UzogOIHg

Celebrations erupt in Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSX_--gbngw

UN green light to use force to stop Gaddafi "no fly zone": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f3XsD-lRyQ

:rofl:

I refuse to believe people are really that ignorant, and chose to, lamentably, believe it is malice (this is a change from my typical position that I shouldn't attribute to malice that which is better explained by stupidity, but we've been educating people for weeks here, the information is available, it can't be stupidity).
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Educating people for weeks?
I don't believe that some people have read a damn thing.

I think many just see the thread, unrec, and then leave not knowing what they are unrec'ing.

As for that post about the "wrong" rebels, I just wanted to bwahabwahabwaha for about 5 minutes, because it was so uninformed (being polite).

There is a whole bunch more I could say, but won't.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
49. I wanted to ask for a link
but they didn't provide a link for the assertion when you asked, so yeah...probably best to just give up and let it be. People are going to believe what they want to believe, and really probably trying to counter it with facts just makes them dig in more.

I laugh at the jokes on the LibyanStateTV parody twitter feed and elsewhere about Gaddafi's propaganda, but I don't dare retweet them because I know someone out there will take them seriously.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. Predator drone strikes as Gaddafi troops retreat
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/24/3199233.htm?section=justin">Predator drone strikes as Gaddafi troops retreat
The United States has launched its first Predator drone strike in Libya, as Misrata rebels claimed victory over Moamar Gaddafi's troops who have retreated from front lines.

NATO says the drone strike targetted a multiple rocket launcher which had been used against civilians in Misrata.

The Libyan government's retreat in Misrata appears to be a significant setback for Muammar Gaddafi's forces hastened by NATO air strikes.

Misrata, the last large city held by rebels in western Libya, had been under a punishing government siege for nearly two months and hundreds of civilians have died in the fighting.

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fivepennies Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. K & R
Wow, my rec lasted at for least a minute.

Who knew there could be so much support for a brutal dictator in the "free" world.

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Welcome to DU.
Don't worry about the unrecs, best not to even mention them because there are some people who automatically unrec on principle whenever someone mentions recs!
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fivepennies Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. LOL
Gotcha. A new brand of unmentionables. Thanks for the welcome.

I've become addicted to your threads and the roller coaster of emotions: joyful at the next to impossible wins and heartbroken at each devastating loss.

And I can't help thinking about how we would come out looking in such a situation.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Heavy fighting rages in Libyan city of Misrata
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/04/23/ml_libya_1">Heavy fighting rages in Libyan city of Misrata
Heavy fighting raged anew in Misrata and killed 24 people Saturday as Moammar Gadhafi's forces gave up more ground inside Libya's third-largest city. The U.S. said its first Predator drone attack in the country destroyed a government rocket launcher that had menaced civilians in the western city.

Hundreds of people have been killed in rebel-held Misrata in a two-month government siege backed by tanks, mortars and snipers. On Friday night, the regime said it was withdrawing its military forces and allowing armed tribesmen to take over the battle. But the opposition was skeptical about the claim, saying it doubted Gadhafi's troops would fully depart.

"Gadhafi forces are moving back," said Safi Eddin al-Montaser, a rebel spokesman in Misrata. But he added: "People are still nervous because we don't know the next step of Gadhafi's forces."

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. A reminder of the mass protest in Misrata, video:
Edited on Sat Apr-23-11 05:50 PM by joshcryer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAVKipWN0lU

This is what the rebels have been fighting for.

Gaddafi was never going to take Misrata.

edit: this is dated 1/3/2011, but I believe it was Feb 25.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. April 23 wrapup:
11:30pm We're going to wrap up today's coverage. Here's a summary of the day's major developments:

* Three new explosions have rocked Tripoli, the Libyan capital.

* Fierce fighting appears to be continuing in Misurata, despite claims of victory by the rebels.

* The US has confirmed its first Predator drone strike at an undisclosed location in Libya.

* Dozens of pro-Gaddafi soldiers were reportedly killed and captured in Saturday's fighting.

* The city's Hikma hospital has confirmed 10 dead and 50 wounded.

* An aid ship chartered by the International Organisation for Migration delivered 160 tonnes of food and medicine to besieged Misurata.

11:01pm Three new explosions rocked the Libyan capital late on Saturday as NATO warplanes overflew Tripoli, AFP journalists said, after several earlier blasts in the city centre and other areas.


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-23
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. 120 dead after 2 days of unrest in Syria
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/04/23/2820757/120-dead-after-2-days-of-unrest.html">120 dead after 2 days of unrest in Syria
Syrian security forces fired on funeral processions that drew tens of thousands Saturday, one day after the bloodiest crackdown so far in the uprising against President Bashar Assad. The shootings pushed the two-day death toll to more than 120 and two lawmakers and a religious leader resigned in disgust over the killings.

The resignations were a possible sign of cracks developing in the regime's base in a nation where nearly all opposition figures have been either jailed or exiled during the 40-year dynasty of the Assad family.

"I cannot tolerate the blood of our innocent sons and children being shed," Sheikh Rizq Abdul-Rahim Abazeid told The Associated Press after stepping down from his post as the mufti of the Daraa region in southern Syria.

The lawmakers, Nasser Hariri and Khalil Rifai, also are from Daraa, which has become the epicenter of the protest movement after a group of teenagers were arrested there for scrawling anti-regime graffiti on a wall in mid-March.


Getting way worse in Syria, it's bad. Only a matter of time before the protesters fight back, imo.
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fivepennies Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Way worse in Syria.
Radwan Ziadeh, a visiting scholar at the Institute for Middle East Studies at George Washington University, said the resignations were largely symbolic because the parliament has no real power. But their dissent could encourage others to step down, such as Vice President Farouk al-Sharaa, who is from Daraa, Ziadeh said.

He added Assad met with the lawmakers in recent weeks, promising them that security forces would not shoot protesters.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/ap/april/237034/120-dead-after-2-days-of-unrest-in-Syria

So, is Assad just another lying sack of tyrannical excrement, or has he lost control of the security forces?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. Comprehensive Misrata update
http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/04/comprehensive-misrata-update/

Also in the comments there is a mention of Zawiya, twitter is alite with Zawiya rumors, but we'll see what the video says in the translation.
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Yosarian71 Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. If Zawiya is in revolt
it would explain pulling out of Misrata and leaving the border post alone. If Zawiya falls, things will unravel for Gadhafi. I suspect he is moving all available forces there.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Gaddafi forces spread thin
Gaddafi forces spread thin, revs in Zawiya, Zuara, Misrata, Bani Walid & Nafousa Mts. making advancements, along w/East front #libya #feb17

http://twitter.com/#!/davebrownz/status/61957597141544960
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I saw tweets to that effect (re: Zuara, Bani Walid, etc), but you know my stance on tweets...
...ever since the jet thing I haven't posted many of them. As always, I hope it's true. They do appear to be getting more accurate anyhow.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I usually follow links from tweets
rather than the content of the tweets. But the post about Zawiya made me copy that tweet.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. *nod* I should say, I had the exact same thought.
I'm following the tweets too, and I am hoping the rumors are true. We'll know in a day or so if they pan out.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
100. One of the comments:
JEANNIE says:
April 24, 2011 at 12:01 am

Hi there. Canada here. Yes , please do Translate from now on and also subtitle Youtube Vids if possible , for us Westerners whom are closely following events in Libya via “underground” Libyans such as yourself . Its hard to tear away from the on-going developments you provide, because it is so riveting – and we are with you on this .
At least its keeping you real busy!! Btw, that info about G’s troops NOT retreating ( wasnt sure myself) do you pass this onto NATO or do you pass it onto officials in BENG whom pass it onto Nato .
KEEP UP THE BRAVE GOOD WORK.and thank you for ur constant updates!!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Libya crisis: stench of death as shooting stops in centre of besieged Misurata
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8469990/Libya-crisis-stench-of-death-as-shooting-stops-in-centre-of-besieged-Misurata.html">Libya crisis: stench of death as shooting stops in centre of besieged Misurata
...

Khaled Kaim, deputy foreign minister, said: "If they cannot solve the problem in Misrata, then the people from (the neighbouring towns of) Zliten, Tarhuna, Bani Walid and Tawargha will move in and they will talk to the rebels," he threatened. "If they don't surrender, then they will engage them in a fight."

Such threats were hollow because most people in the surrounding towns supported the revolutionaries' cause, Mr Hamidi said, adding: "He said he will leave it for tribes to solve the problem. It won't happen. Libya has risen up as cities, not as tribes. We fight as a city not as a tribe and all the tribes are with us."

His face darkened though when asked about the humanitarian situation inside the town of 500,000 people which is just 120 miles east of Tripoli and he paused, lost for words, when asked what he thought would happen to the city. "I can't give you an answer, anything could happen unless we get help," he said.

The main water pipe to Misurata has been cut and households are getting water from local wells and an industrial desalination plant. The Red Cross has said the humanitarian situation is rapidly deteriorating and warned of a critical shortage of water, electricity, food and medical care.

...


Gaddafi cut water and electricity to an entire city. His last ditch attempt to foment "tribal divides" appears to be failing.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. Rights group: EU must end 'faustian pact' with Syria
http://euobserver.com/9/32227">Rights group: EU must end 'faustian pact' with Syria
EUOBSERVER / BEIRUT - With the death count in Syria jumping up drastically, Human Rights Watch (HRW) has said the EU should impose sanctions on the al-Assad regime or risk missing a historic opportunity to shape events in the Middle East.

Syrian rights activists inside the country report that Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad's forces killed at least 70 more people during protests on Friday (22 April), bringing the number of deaths since violence began six weeks ago to some 270.

HRW no longer has staff in Syria, but its sources speak of systematic use of live ammunition against unarmed crowds, night-time snatch squads and torture of detainees.

HRW analyst Nadim Houry told EUobserver in his office in Beirut, in neighbouring Lebanon, that the EU reaction so far - statements by foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton urging restraint and public silence from EU countries' embassies in Lebanon and Syria - is doing nothing to make al-Assad change track.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. EU condemns use of force against protesters in Syria
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-04/24/c_13842859.htm">EU condemns use of force against protesters in Syria
BRUSSELS, April 23 (Xinhua) -- The European Union on Saturday condemned the use of force against protesters in Syria, and called on the Syrian government to carry out "profound political reforms. "

"I condemn the use of brutal force against demonstrators across Syria, which is resulting in high numbers of victims," said Catherine Ashton, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
36. Attempt to freeze Gadhafi's assets hits resistance
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/04/23/3574283/attempt-to-freeze-gadhafis-assets.html">Attempt to freeze Gadhafi's assets hits resistance
WASHINGTON -- The international drive to freeze the Libyan regime's foreign assets is running into stiff resistance in many parts of the world, allowing Moammar Gadhafi to dig into a vast hoard of cash that has helped him cling to power as he battles rebel forces.

Although the United States and the European Union have blocked access to more than $60 billion in Libya's overseas bank accounts and investments, other countries have done little or nothing to freeze tens of billions more that Gadhafi and his family spread around the globe over the last decade, according to U.S., European and U.N. officials involved in the search for Libyan assets.

Gadhafi has moved billions of dollars back to Tripoli since the rebellion began in mid-February, the officials said. The totals are not clear, in part because investigators believe the Libyan ruler made significant investments in companies and financial institutions that shield his identity.

Gadhafi's ability to skirt sanctions has undermined the Obama administration's attempts to force his ouster after four decades in power. And his access to ready cash has hampered efforts to persuade his top aides and military commanders to defect as the conflict drags on, officials acknowledged.


Wow, no words.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. Q&A: Rebel spokesman Abdelbaset Abumzirig
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/20114240556575343.html">Q&A: Rebel spokesman Abdelbaset Abumzirig
When 41-year-old Misurata resident Abdelbaset Abumzirig called in to Al Jazeera Arabic during the first days of the uprising against longtime Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, he became the voice of the city's rebels to much of the outside world. In the months since, Abumzirig has tirelessly kept journalists informed about the fighting in Libya's third-largest city, which some have begun to call "Libya's Stalingrad." There are perhaps only 10 two-way satellite Internet connections left in the city, he said.

Al Jazeera caught up with Abumzirig on Monday night while he made a brief visit to Benghazi. He was due to return to his besieged hometown on Sunday.

Abumzirig told Al Jazeera that rebels had made significant advances in Misurata in recent days, but he described a violent and bloody conflict on the ground there. Around 10 families have reported cases of rape at the hands of Gaddafi's troops, and many more have seen their relatives abducted. Around 400 people have died, at least 2,000 have suffered injuries – some devastatingly severe – and 1,000 have disappeared, Abumzirig said. The lightly armed rebel force defending the city numbers only 800 to 1,000 men at any one time, though many more stand ready to take weapons from their fallen comrades, he said.

A lawyer by training, Abumzirig also wrote and directed anti-regime plays. He adapted an Armenian writer's novel into "The General of the Dead Army," which criticized Gaddafi's armed forces, and also wrote "The Night When Ben Ali Escaped,"a reference to the downfall of Tunisia's leader that called for a similar uprising in Libya.


This is a must read. Just got posted to Al Jazeera.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. What a nightmare.
That story was really upsetting.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. Hisham Matar: Ambiguity as political and artistic maturity
Edited on Sat Apr-23-11 08:39 PM by tabatha
Matar was born in New York, where his father was an official in Libya’s UN delegation. His father resigned from the diplomatic corps in 1973, when Gadhafi dissolved the Libyan constitution and effectively declared himself dictator for life. In 1979, the family moved to Cairo. In 1990, Matar’s father, by then a prominent dissident, was kidnapped from the streets of Cairo. He has not been seen or heard from since, although it is possible he is still alive in a Libyan prison.

....

Matar is keeping a close eye on events in Libya, where most of his relatives still live. He supports the international military intervention, even as he understands that some of the Western countries now seeking Gadhafi’s ouster were more than happy to do business with him in the past.

“The intervention has reminded Libyans of something Gadhafi has worked very hard to erase from their consciousness, which is that Libya is part of the world. It is good for Libyans to see that the exact same people who were willing to do deals with Gadhafi, while giving him the respect of an international statesman, are now putting the safety, well-being and will of the Libyan people above all that.

“My best hope is that Libya turns into a peaceful, sensible country that has all the things my father and lots of others have been calling for: independence of the courts and press, a protected and democratic constitution, with different parties involved in a healthy and open debate. Libyans deserve a country where disagreement doesn’t mean death or disappearance.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/books/article/978982--hisham-matar-ambiguity-as-political-and-artistic-maturity

(On edit - I wish there was a place to compile best quotes about Libya somewhere, because he sure hit the nail about putting the will of the Libyan people above deals with Gaddafi.)
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
41. Sweeps Tripoli Street: Combing the shops and houses in the street
Edited on Sat Apr-23-11 08:53 PM by tabatha
in Tripoli Masrathiltomin the street from any mercenary battalions Gaddafi.

"translation basically.."surrender! surrender! we won harm you if you surrender" and "god is great!!"..........these guys are real lions!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf18xcNUgEE
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
44. Libyan rebels rush aid to besieged mountain towns
Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:39pm GMT

By Tarek Amara

TUNISIA-LIBYA BORDER (Reuters) - Libyan rebels rushed supplies on Saturday to remote mountain towns under attack by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, cheered by reports of gains for fellow fighters in the city of Misrata.

Two days after insurgents seized a remote border crossing with Tunisia and raised the pre-Gaddafi flag, people queued in cars to bring food and gasoline from the neighbouring country into the area known as the Western Mountains.

REBEL BORDER CHECKS

One rebel, 16-year-old Ahmed, said he had joined the fight against the "dictator" Gaddafi despite his youth. "Day by day, we are becoming more confident and we are asking NATO to step up their attacks against Gaddafi's forces," the teenager said, holding a rifle.

As he spoke, his comrades checked people crossing the border in both directions -- some fleeing Western Mountains, others returning. Scores of cars were waiting to enter Tunisia.

http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE73M08520110423?sp=true
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
45. Social solidarity and the Libyan revolution
Ryan Calder, PhD student in sociology | 4/22/11

BENGHAZI, Libya —If you had told Benghazi residents three months ago that they would be throwing Molotov cocktails at Qaddafi loyalist tanks, they would’ve looked at you like you were crazy. Even after the Egyptian revolution began on January 25, Qaddafi’s iron grip on Libyan society seemed too strong to allow an uprising of the sort that occurred in Tunis and Cairo. In early February, Ahmed, a 26-year-old medical student, heard about a joke that was making the rounds in recently liberated Tunisia. “The Tunisians were telling us Libyans to bend over so they could see the real men over in Egypt.”

This underscores one of the biggest challenges posed by running a revolution that no one expected:It’s not surprising, then, that when the revolution happened, few people here had much of an idea about what to do next: how to keep a society dominated by the government sector running once that sector was gone. Just as the opposition’s Transitional National Council (TNC) has faced the problem of managing its volunteer-heavy rebel army, people trying to manage quotidian aspects of life during the war faced the problem of what to do with the thousands of volunteers who want to help but don’t have anyone giving orders. This is true in medical care, aid distribution, and other state services: while the TNC has managed to restore many of the functions of government previously handled by the Gaddafi regime, volunteers continue to shoulder much of the burden.

...

Everyone in opposition-held territory seems to have a story about how much nicer people are to one another now that Gaddafi is gone. “Before the revolution, you’d go out into the street and find a bunch of angry people,” says Shawg, the anesthesiologist. “They’d be taking it out on each other — you’d find a lot of fights on the street, people saying bad stuff to each other, or even driving. Sometimes you’d find people just fighting for the sake of fighting. Everyone was in a bad mood, all the time.”

But with the revolution, people in Benghazi began showing an outpouring of support for their doctors. She recalls how on March 19, as Gaddafi’s tanks were rolling through Benghazi’s streets and Revolutionary Committee members were shooting at civilians, she and other doctors were overwhelmed by the number of wounded they had to treat — and by the kindness that ordinary citizens were showing them. “In the hospital, men as old as my father would run around the ICU at Jala Hospital , passing out milk and juice and boxes of dates to the doctors,” she says. “They’d stuff them in the pockets of my lab coat and shake my hands, and they’d hug the male doctors. They’d bring pillows and blankets from home, giving everything they could to the hospital.”

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/04/22/%E2%80%9Cit%E2%80%99s-funny-but-gaddafi-brought-out-the-best-in-us%E2%80%9D-social-solidarity-and-the-libyan-revolution/
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catchnrelease Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. k&r
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. the courage of ordinary people standing up to Gaddafi
The Middle East. A man with a car fashioned into a bomb. He disguises his intent by joining a funeral cortege passing the chosen target. At the last minute the man swings the vehicle away, puts his foot down and detonates the propane canisters packed into the car.

It all sounds horrifyingly familiar. Mahdi Ziu was a suicide bomber in a region too often defined by people blowing up themselves and others. But, as with so much in Libya, the manner of Ziu's death defies the assumptions made about the uprisings in the Arab world by twitchy American politicians and generals who see Islamic extremism and al-Qaeda lurking in the shadows. Ziu's attack was an act of pure selflessness, not terror, and it may have saved Libya's revolution.

In the first days of the popular uprising he crashed his car into the gates of the Katiba, a much-feared military barracks in Benghazi, where Muammar Gaddafi's forces were making a last stand in a hostile city. At that time the revolutionaries had few weapons, mostly stones and "fish bombs" — TNT explosive with a fuse that is more usually dropped in the sea off Benghazi to catch fish. The soldiers had heavy machine guns and the revolutionaries, often daring young men letting loose their anger at the regime for the first time, were dying in their dozens as they tried to storm the Katiba.

Then Ziu arrived, blew the main gates off the barracks and sent the soldiers scurrying to seek shelter inside. Within hours the Katiba had fallen.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/23/libya-benghazi-gaddafi-revolution?CMP=twt_gu


Sorry I haven't been as active as I used to be - got kind of taken up with the Republican fascist horror show here for a while. But the troll threads today took my mind off that and got me back on to Libya.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. Glad to see you back MedleyMisty
with your often words of wisdom.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
51. To all the posters on this thread
Edited on Sat Apr-23-11 11:02 PM by tabatha
I shall not be replying to any post that does not talk about the ordeal that the Libyans are going through every day. To understand what I am saying, please read the link below, which almost made me throw up, it wrenched my stomach that much. Any post that is a slap in the face to what the Libyans are going through is not worthy of a response on this thread (imho).

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/20114240556575343.html

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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. Good idea
Maybe we should all do that. No use getting our blood pressure up when people won't listen anyway.

*hugs*
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
52. Syria's deadliest day - video (AJE)
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
53. How 'rebel' phone network evaded shutdown
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/04/20114233530919767.html">How 'rebel' phone network evaded shutdown
Benghazi, LIBYA -- On February 17, Ahmed el-Mahdawi's duty engineer called him from the Libyana mobile phone company’s switch room in Benghazi's Fuihat neighbourhood. Military and internal security forces had begun brutally repressing anti-government protesters in Libya's second-largest city, and gunfire rang out through the darkened streets.

"Ahmed, it's dangerous, I'm going home," the man said.

Ahmed told him to go. The man closed down the office, locked the door and left. The team would return five days later. In the meantime, protesters overthrew the city's military garrison and ousted forces loyal to longtime Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. Hundreds of civilians were killed and injured.

As the violence raged, Gaddafi's regime severed eastern Libya's communication with the outside world, blocking internet access and international phone calls. News of the brutal crackdown leaked out through rare satellite Internet connections that allowed residents to make intermittent Skype calls, MSN chats, and sometimes upload mobile phone videos. Occasionally, an international call connected to a voice in Benghazi.


Amazing article. They're about to return internet to the east. It'll be interesting, to say the least. The translators are going to be working overtime.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. This revolution could not have happened 10 years ago.
Maybe not even 5.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. such revolutions have happened many times before.
if you mean phony covert ops "revolutions" financed from abroad.
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UnseenUndergrad Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. What is your game anyway?
Are you getting paid by the Unspellable wretch or have all the CIA ops over the years made people paranoid?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #56
72.  If Someone's Viewpoint is So Black and White
the entire world becomes a dumbshow created just to disabuse them of their principles. It comes from a habit of opposing the official line, no matter what the merits are.

Strangely enough, the Libyan rebel movement should be an inspiring example of the proletariat throwing off their chains. I guess it doesn't count unless it's against a capitalist system.



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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I'm amazed the CIA and expats are so powerful to foment a dozen cities rising up.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
60. Syrian forces raid homes to quell protests
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/04/20114231492375311.html">Syrian forces raid homes to quell protests
Secret police raided homes near Damascus overnight, rights campaigners said , as popular opposition to President Bashar al Assad mounted following the bloodiest attacks on pro-democracy protesters.

Security operatives in plain clothes wielding assault rifles broke into homes in the suburb of Harasta just after midnight on Sunday, arresting activists in the area, known as the Ghouta, or the old garden district of the capital.

Security forces and gunmen loyal to Assad killed at least 112 people in the last two days when they fired at protests demanding political freedoms and an end to corruption on Friday and on mass funerals for victims a day later.

Two Syrian legislators resigned their posts in parliament as outrage grows over the security force's ongoing crackdown on anti-government protests.


Have to get those CIA-backed terrorists!
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
61. Libya says its army has halted military operations in Misrata to give local tribal leaders an opport
Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim said government troops had not withdrawn from the besieged port city.

Rebels have dismissed his statement, and there were reports of explosions and gunfire in Misrata early on Sunday.

The previous day was one of the bloodiest in the siege of the city, with at least 24 people killed.

On Saturday Mr Kaim said tribes around Misrata had given the army an ultimatum that if it couldn't defeat rebels in Misrata, their fighters would.

He said tribal leaders were angry that fighting had brought life and trade in the western city to a standstill.

Human rights groups say more than 1,000 people have been killed in weeks of fighting in the city.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13179837?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=DTN+World+News:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
62. Libyan spirits
http://youtu.be/hdy9APbsHwY

I think I want to go there, one day!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Beautiful.
Hey, that does look like freedom. :hi:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-23-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. That was one thing that amazed me about
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 12:13 AM by tabatha
South African indigenous people - they were always happy. Singing at any occasion. That they were suffering, was difficult to discern. That is why I was so happy when they did throw off the yoke of oppression. That is why I and others from South Africa, such as Desmond Tutu, are following the Libyans' ordeal with hope and empathy.

:hug:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. Remember Ben Wedmen's first report from Benghazi?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgP0Gro52c8

These are fucking amazing people. We'll go there one day, tab, I guarantee it.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
93. Honestly I'm thinking about learning Arabic
and it's on top of my list of countries to move to if the US keeps going down its current path. I'd much rather help the Libyans rebuild than watch the US go down.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
67. Why I left state channel Jamahiriya and joined Libya TV
http://english.libya.tv/2011/04/18/why-i-left-state-channel-jamahiriya-and-joined-libya-tv/">Why I left state channel Jamahiriya and joined Libya TV
News Anchor Mohamad Hawas on why he left Libya’s state channel Jamahiriya, and how he ended up working with the pro-democracy channel ‘Libya TV‘.

The secrecy of editing and the drafting of the news were not the main reason I left Libya’s state channel Jamahiriya. Even the absence of the channel manager, Ali Elkeilany, because of his military and security duties was not the problem.

The monthly salary, though messily at only $250, did not drive me away from my job as a news anchor forced to read word-for-word the “revelations” sent to us from jana, the Jamahiriya News Agency.

After the outbreak of the February 17 revolution in the whole eastern region, including Benghazi and my city Ajdabya, I felt the need to get out.


Yet another defector.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
68. Libyan rebels’ efforts to govern take hold in Benghazi
BENGHAZI, Libya — Ahmed Algallal spent 14 years in Britain because his father preferred exile to life under Moammar Khadafy. “There won’t be another exile for me,’’ he said. “We win or die.’’

The 42-year-old importer is part of the patchwork for a new civil society taking shape in Benghazi. While he uses his contacts to secure food and medicine supplies for the front lines, students clean the streets, and teachers and longshoremen organize themselves in tents outside the old courthouse.

....

The Libyan revolt, now in its third month, is the deadliest of the dozen pro-democracy protest movements that shook the Arab world since mid-December, toppling the regimes in Tunisia and Egypt, and threatening those of Bahrain, Yemen, and Syria.

At least 12,000 people have been killed and 30,000 injured, according to the National Transitional Council, the governing body for the rebels. The group is led by Mustafa Abd-Al-Jalil, a 58-year-old judge who served as justice minister before he defected.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/africa/articles/2011/04/24/libyan_rebels_efforts_to_govern_take_hold_in_benghazi/

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Refugees from Libya Queue for Food at Tunisia Transit Camp


Thank god for all of the various humanitarian organizations.

All because of one man not stepping down.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
70. If the rebels (in Misrata) don't surrender in the next two days, armed tribesmen will fight them
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 02:19 AM by joshcryer
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-24#update-29906">8:27am AP reports: Libya's deputy foreign minister, Khaled Kaim, said troops have halted operations in Misurata to enable tribal elders to negotiate with the rebels.

If the rebels don't surrender in the next two days, armed tribesmen will fight them in place of the army, he said.
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Yosarian71 Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. This is irresponsible reporting by the MSM
Throughout this revolution, the MSM has been little more than a mouthpiece for Gadhafi, regurgitating his absurd claims without the slightest bit of skepticism. The fact that Gadhafi has been wrong virtually every time hasn't stopped the MSM from continuing to do it. Here is a MSNBC link for the same: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42737249/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

(sorry, don't know how to link on this board)

I am sitting in my kitchen in Connecticut reading that story, having never set foot in Libya, and I can tell that virtually every sentence in that article is utter bull$%#@. There are no tribes in the area, they are not going to be negotiating with the revolutionaries, and they certainly don't have 60,000 men. At most there are a few area Gadhafi civil servants that might be forced to approach the rebels, and will be told by the Misuratis to get lost if they aren't arrested. Don't you think, if Gadhafi had a 60,000 man army hanging around, he would be using it given he is now conscripting boys in their mid-teens?

The MSM is picking sides in this conflict by continuing to be Gadhafi's mouthpiece. It is not freedom of the press when you become an extension of a murderous, barbarous dictator's propaganda machine. It is irresponsible, and should be stopped.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
90. I've had that thought
My husband says that they're so used to just reporting whatever our government says that when they go to other countries, they just report what that government says too.

And I remember an editorial posted in one of these threads a while back, from an American newspaper, chiding the Libyans for not reporting Gaddafi's side of the story on their own Free Benghazi radio station.

I'm wondering how much of it is actually evil intent of taking Gaddafi's side, and how much is ingrained laziness and wrong ideas about "fair and balanced".
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
71. Libya: Inside Benghazi's rebel training camps
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 02:27 AM by joshcryer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8469896/Libya-Inside-Benghazis-rebel-training-camps.html">Libya: Inside Benghazi's rebel training camps
The ageing military instructor had assumed the statuesque pose of a javelin thrower to teach his rebel pupils how to fire a rocket-propelled grenade.

"It flies through the air like this," he demonstrated gravely, grasping the rocket projectile in his right hand like a paper aeroplane.

Seated at his feet in deep, but puzzled attention were nearly 30 cross-legged students dressed in everything from long traditional robes to business suits, rather than fatigues.

...

"All of them are just civilians and businessmen," said a 44-year-old camp supervisor, Muftah Albargathi, who was himself a financial manager in a computer company until two months ago. "We give them two weeks of intensive training. We show them how to use a few of the weapons and how to take care of themselves."
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
74. AJE updates from Misurata (Andrew Simmons) and Benghazi (Sue Turton)
10:53am
Gaddafi's forces say they have suspended the fighting in Misurata, but they have planted booby trapped bombs, which have caused many casualties.

As Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports, the city's hospitals are struggling to cope. You can watch it here.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-24

or
http://youtu.be/eQIhbkhsGU0

10:53am

Gaddafi's forces say they have suspended the fighting in Misurata, but they have planted booby trapped bombs, which have caused many casualties.

As Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports, the city's hospitals are struggling to cope. You can watch it here.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-24

or
http://youtu.be/ZeIyXd9o3wc
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
75. Russia calls on Libya to comply with U.N. resolutions
Russia calls on Libya to comply with U.N. resolutions
Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:05pm GMT

MOSCOW, April 24 (Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called on Libyan Prime Minister Al-Baghdadi Al-Mahmoudi to implement United Nations Security Council resolutions and end attacks on civilians, the ministry said in a Sunday statement.

"Lavrov said that the most important issue now is to stop the bloodshed and sufferings of the civilian population," the ministry reported on its website, referring to a Saturday telephone conversation between the two. (Reporting by Alfred Kueppers; editing by Philippa Fletcher)

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73N05G20110424
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
76. Libyan forces pulling back from Misrata to allow for tribal talks, claims regime
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 07:39 AM by Iterate
Libyan forces pulling back from Misrata to allow for tribal talks, claims regime
Tribal leaders given 48 hours to strike deal with Libyan rebels and failure could lead to bloody conflict, says deputy minister

Harriet Sherwood in Tripoli guardian.co.uk, Sunday 24 April 2011 12.09 BST

Libyan forces have pulled back from their military siege of Misrata to let tribal leaders in the area attempt to negotiate a political resolution, according to the Libyan government.

In an acknowledgement that loyalist troops had failed to take control of the city after two months of siege, the deputy foreign minister, Khaled Kaim, said: "The tactic of the army was to have a surgical strike, but with the air strikes that doesn't work."

He said tribal leaders had set a 48-hour deadline, due to expire on Monday night, to strike a deal with the rebels, who hold the port area of Misrata and who have made gains in the centre of the city in recent days.

If the talks failed, the tribal leaders would launch a military assault on the rebel strongholds, Kaim said, which could be "very bloody".

...continue...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/24/libya-tribal-leaders-talks-misrata

Edit to add, also from The Guardian"

1.30pm: Here's a summary of developments so far today:
...

• Shelling of Misrata in western Libya has reportedly continued despite a claim by deputy foreign minister Khaled Kaim that military operations had been halted to allow tribal leaders to try to negotiate a political resolution with the rebels. Kaim said opposition forces in Misrata had 48 hours to lay down their arms or else face a "very bloody" assault by tribes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/apr/24/middle-east-libya-uprising-live

Same wolf, new wool.

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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
77. Libyan opposition (re-Misrata): Gadhafi forces not working with local tribes
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 09:52 AM by Turborama
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
78. Libya's Misrata comes under heavy bombardment-rebels (Sunday)
Libya's Misrata comes under heavy bombardment-rebels
Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:11pm GMT

BENGHAZI, Libya, April 24 (Reuters) - Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi bombarded Misrata on Sunday, a day after rebels celebrated the pullback of government troops from the western Libyan city, a rebel spokesman said.

...

But on Sunday, government forces bombarded three residential areas and the city centre, including Tripoli Street, the thoroughfare which has been the scene of intense fighting in recent weeks, Abdelsalam said. Another rebel spokesman, Ahmed Hassan, said at least one person was killed and 12 wounded.

...

"I don't think this is a real withdrawal," rebel military spokesman Ahmed Bani told Reuters.

He suggested government loyalists may be trying to stoke tensions between Misrata and neighbouring towns, and that Gaddafi's troops might return to the city later under the guise of intervening to protect local tribes from the rebels.

...

complete...
http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE73M0AP20110424?sp=true
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
79. Nafusa revolutionaries Singing Around Campfire Guarding the liberated areas
@4Adam Adam
Rebels in my hometown with high spirits singing around campfire guarding the liberated areas http://bit.ly/hvjK8l #Nafusa #Libya
vor 14 Stunden

Uploaded 21.04.2011, with translations by 4Adam

http://youtu.be/UzAbiS1eq3M

Must must. "Give me your hand, and let's go"
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
80. Libyan photos on Flickr
Funerals and Friday Prayer Service in Tobruk 22 April 2011
http://www.flickr.com/photos/libyaalhurratv/sets/72157626563443648/detail/
Dr. Rida Ben Fayed (pictured in front/center in white) and Mr. Faraj Yaseen (pictured next to Ben Fayed), Head of Tobruk Local Council attend Friday Funeral Prayers in Tobruk for the funerals of 8 Pro-Democracy forces who were killed by Gadafi Mercenaries at a AGOCO pumping station located southwest of Tobruk, Libya. Mr. Kaled Taher Mahmoud survived despite being shot twice.

Friends
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_hamza/sets/72157626562186810/detail/
Tawfik Elzewi My friend , Civil Enginer , Killed today 23-April in Misrata's Battle


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
81. Thousands of protesters demand "A New Morocco"
By Souhail Karam – 2 hrs 20 mins ago

CASABLANCA, Morocco (Reuters) – Thousands took to the streets of Morocco on Sunday in peaceful demonstrations to demand sweeping reforms and an end to political detention, the third day of mass protests since they began in February.

Desperate to avoid the turmoil that toppled leaders in Tunisia and Egypt, authorities have already announced some reforms to placate demands that King Mohammed cede more powers and limit the monarchy's extensive business influence.

Some 10,000 people joined the protest in Casablanca, the largest city in one of the West's staunchest Arab allies. Marchers in the capital Rabat also denounced corruption and torture as well as unemployment, which is very high among youths.

Policing has been low key for protests by the February 20 Movement, named after the date of its first march, particularly compared to the turmoil elsewhere in North Africa.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110424/wl_nm/us_morocco_protest
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
82. Al Jazeera: Gaddafi forces are stationed in a residential area in Brega in large number
12:55 (UTC +2) Al Jazeera

Gaddafi forces are stationed in a residential area in Brega in large number and they have 8 grad rockets firing batteries. In Ajdabiya, Gaddafi forces tried to secretly surround the city and NATO attacked them in an area called Mareer Qabes northwest of Ajdabiya, and in the southern west of the city.

http://www.libyafeb17.com
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
83. ChangeInLibya: Misrata Tweet
13:52 (UTC +2) ChangeInLibya

tweets that Gaddafi militias dressed up as civilians are starting to attack the city from its southern end using heavy weaponry in Misrata.

http://www.libyafeb17.com
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
84. Reuters: Misrata Update
16:52 (UTC +2) Reuters

At least 36 people have been killed in attacks on the western Libyan city of Misrata by Gaddafi forces since Saturday, an opposition spokesman there said. More than 100 were injured.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
85. LibyaFeb17.com: Video - Tribute to the Feb 17 Libyan Revolution
http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/04/video-tribute-to-the-feb-17-libyan-revolution/">Video: Tribute to the Feb 17 Libyan Revolution

I have to say simpathetic to their cause or not that this has all the hall marks of great propaganda: a stirring array of images mixed dramatic music intended to invoke strong emotions in the viewer. I know there are many here who will swear such is the case. I am not so sure, maybe the story's compelling in its own right. I admit that I would dearly like to think so.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Seems just like a guy trying to show empathy.
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 11:18 AM by tabatha
From Sameer Sattar's twitter page:

Thats the least I could do sittin miles away.. :( thnx tho I feel for the ppl of libya and want this to end soon with freedom for them


But people have to be careful - about doing what could sound like propaganda. The other Libyan support music - rap and Libyan folk music - come off much better.

I think (and hoping) it must be a reflex action because this type of dramatic orchestral music is used for propaganda.

This piece ends with a clip from another video set to music that I posted in another thread. I have looked at that particular video a few times, and there is something that makes me feel a little uncomfortable with it, including the fact that the spokesperson looks so much like Mo Nabbous.

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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #86
97. Well said, ma'am
The truth is that it's simply difficult to know for sure either way. At the least, intellectual honesty demands that we acknowledge the strong emotional appeal of both pieces which are clearly aimed for english-speaking audiences.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #85
98. I think it's innocent
Requiem for a Dream is known as an epic bit of music - you should see the comments on YouTube videos of it. Mostly young people joking about how it's on God's iPod or how it was what was playing when Chuck Norris was born or how it's what will play at the end of the world.

And, now that I think about it, I have seen one comment from someone saying that if there was a war and Requiem for a Dream was played, he would go fight the war.

But I imagine it was just a young person who is as taken with the Libyan revolution as we are and wanted to make a video and picked Requiem for a Dream just because it is so epic. A lot of the pictures used come from the Epic Libyan Man blog, so the word "epic" was already in the video creator's mind and I can see it being quickly associated with Requiem for a Dream.

I don't know - I love music videos like this. I admit that I don't think the music works well and I like the Marchin' On video and the ones using Kanye West's Amazing and Lupe Fiasco's The Emperor's Soundtrack better. But in general, I am a fan of stirring images and dramatic music and strong emotions. I don't know - to me, calling every example of that propaganda means that eventually you shut yourself out of all art, all creative expression, all stirring images and good music. And telling stories that cause emotional reactions is part of what makes us human.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #98
104. Also well said, and perhaps apropos given your user name ;-)
'Tis a delicate business this balancing if emotion and discrimination, and a pity to loose either one entirely for other. On the whole, though I have to agree w/ your take on the matter.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
87. Gaddafi's dirty tricks never stop
17:25 Al Jazeera Arabic Mustafa Abdul Jaleel says 15 people were caught trying to sneak into Libya through the Egyptian border. Preliminary investigation shows that they were recruited by Ahmed Gaddaf El Dam.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/04/video-tribute-to-the-feb-17-libyan-revolution/
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
88. The evolution of Arab revolutions
Why are countries such as Libya, Yemen, Syria and Bahrain facing bloody battles for change?

The Arab Spring is in full bloom. Peaceful uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt sparked a democratic tide that has swept across the region.

Young Arabs have taken to the streets in vast numbers, their disaffection for the dictators and autocrats that have continually oppressed them, no longer bearable.

180 million strong, they are protesting on common ground, demanding common values and speaking in one common language.

They are clamouring for change, for free speech, for human rights and a solution to mass unemployment and poverty. But as the revolution evolves, it has become clear not all Arabs are singing to the same tune.

In Libya, Yemen, Syria and Bahrain, it is now a tale of two protests, with the situation deteriorating into widespread violence and outright war.

It seems some regimes will stop at nothing to resist change. So with no unified leadership or clear agenda, and with domestic complications in each and every country, is this truly a revolution? And if this is an Awakening – what path will it follow – that of Turkey? Of Iran? Or rather a third way, an Arab way. Empire finds out.

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/empire/2011/04/2011421104111964650.html
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
89. AJE Andrew Simmons reports biggest barrage in Misurata to date
6:55pm

Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports that the seige of Misurata is only intensifying.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-april-24

or

http://youtu.be/aKOONZTfL9g
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. Some retreat. Orwellian.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Possibly just drawing the rebels out into the open
Clearly a tactical rather than a strategic retreat that may or may not be a prelude to another attack. It's also possible that Gaddafi's forces are covering their retreat w/ the barrage.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
91. NATO REPORT - 24 April 2011
Key Targets and Engagements**
23 April:
In Tripoli: 1 surface-to-air-site.
In vicinity of Misurata: 1 tank, 1 command and control bunker, 1 semi truck, 3 heavy equipment transporters, 4 multiple rocket launchers, 2 vehicle storage buildings, 1 antenna, 3 artillery rocket launchers.
In vicinity of Sirte:1 bunker, 1 tank, 1 armoured vehicle, 3 other vehicles.
**Key Engagements are not intended to give a complete account of all targets which were engaged.

Arms Embargo Activities
A total of 18 ships under NATO command are actively patrolling the Central Mediterranean.
18 vessels were hailed on 23 April to determine destination and cargo. 0 boarding and 0 diversions were conducted.
A total of 589 vessels have been hailed, 14 boardings and 5 diversions have been conducted since the beginning of arms embargo operations.

International Humanitarian Assistance Movements as recorded by NATO
Total of Humanitarian Movements***: 116 (air, ground, maritime)
Ships delivering Humanitarian Assistance 23 April: 0 completed, 10 in execution.
Aircraft delivering Humanitarian Assistance 23 April: 3
***Some humanitarian movements cover several days.

http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_04/20110424_110424-oup-update.pdf
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
94. Al Jazeera: Update from Yefren
Posted on April 24, 2011 by admin

“Very fierce battles taking place in the outskirts now, and the revolutionaries have Gaddafi forces surrounded. Battles started at 2pm today and revolutionaries are using machine guns while Gaddafi forces use heavy artillery, tanks and LMGs.

“Gaddafi forces retreated from Alkalaa (castle) after being in it for over 2 weeks and the revolutionaries are attacking them.”

“The humanitarian situation is very bad, the people are under siege in Yefren.. we have no food, electricity.. basic needs. Revolutionaries are simply bleeding out in Yefren.. there’s no way to treat them.. and bombardment doesn’t stop.”

“Today they bombarded Yefren and the surrounding areas for over 4 hours, and killed all our livestock. People are losing hope…WE RECEIVED NO AID AT ALL.. we don’t get anything from the outside world. The fact revolutionaries now have control of the Dhayba border is extremely good news but Yefren is still in dire need of help. We are under siege.. we need your help.. Dhayba is our only artery (supply route) and we hope to start receiving aid soon”

http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/04/update-from-yefren/
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
95. The Telegraph - Libya: Amateur video shows Misurata destruction
Libya: Amateur video shows Misurata destruction
With reports of renewed fighting in Misurata, amateur footage shows the destruction caused by weeks of heavy fighting in the city.

4:30PM BST 24 Apr 2011

Amateur video released on Sunday purportedly showed the destruction caused by the intense battles between forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan opposition fighters in the besieged western city.
...

At least 36 people have been killed in attacks on Misurata by Gaddafi's forces since Saturday, according to a report from Reuters.

The rebels had claimed on Saturday that they had consolidated their control of the western city, “We are winning. All of tanks and weapons have been seized inside Misurata,” said Mohamed Ali, a spokesman for the rebel city council.

The clip appears to back these claims as rebel fighters wander around evidently deserted tanks and weaponry.

Complete:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8471122/Libya-Amateur-video-shows-Misurata-destruction.html
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
96. Update from Misrata: Khamis prisoner unveils possible plans for Misrata
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 01:27 PM by tabatha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxlXwMBnV6Y&feature=player_embedded#at=55

Translation:

We captured one of Khamis brigade men and he admitted everything, he is a resident of Tripoli originally from Zlitin, and he said that they mislead them and told them that they (the freedom fighters) were mercenaries and Algerians, Somalis and from who knows where and many different nationalities, and he said if we saw anyone from Misrata we don’t kill them, that is what he said (God knows).

We gave the man our word not to be harmed and he told everything … that was the good news but the bad news is that they were ordered to retreat and were told that Misrata will be hit indiscriminately with grad missiles, a complete annihilation; we can no longer reach you, they have no food or supplies, and were told if you want to stay or leave or be killed is all ok and the brigade left them behind and cleared from the area.

Q: What about the people missing from your group?

The prisoner, after assuring him that he will not be harmed, we asked him about our comrades that were killed or captured, he said they were killed and buried in their clothes without proper rituals all over the place, some in a house others in a school and some more in the polytech building and only God knows where, but the prisoner told us he will provide us with all the information to locate them and perform proper burial rituals.

Today we have 10 martyrs God bless them all; one of them is a Libyan student from Australia who left his studies and came back to fight with us, God bless him.

Q: A message to Gaddafi?

A message to whom?I will not send a message to the one named Muammar al Gaddafi, I don’t want to send him a message he abandoned them, this man was left on his own, he is from Gaddafi’s brigade and he said that they abandoned him and left him behind. He was told “if you want to leave; leave or if you want to die; die, we can do nothing for you” and told them to better leave because they will be destroying Misrata using the Grad missiles, this is according to the wounded prisoner that we captured, we promised he will not be harmed and we admitted him to the hospital thank God.

http://libya-alhurra.tumblr.com/

Tweet from ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Wow. Gaddafi actually fired a SCUD missile on Misrata. Confirmed by NTC's Abdul Jaleel on Arabiya. #libya #feb17

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. Ack, I didn't see you had that already
Still haven't seen SCUD story confirmed or not, maybe in the AM. Spent a good part of the evening trying to convince myself that a new level of evil isn't at hand. So far I'm not convinced.

all done in (and not even midnight), so I'll be back in the am.
and i have to add, libya-alhurra just keeps getting better every day. remarkable people.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. No problem. There have been dupes before.
What time zone are you in?
Yep, agreed with libya-alhurra.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-11 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #108
114. GMT +2, for now
an expat in Germany, so that's CET(+1) for the dark half of the year, and CEST(+2) for the summer. Since Libya doesn't switch to daylight time, it means I'm in the same time zone, about 900 miles north of Tripoli.

It's sometimes an advantage because I can try to get something fresh posted for when the east coast wakes up and keep it kicked after the west coast gives up for the day (not that it actually works out that way in real life). But it also means I miss most of the US after-work "discussions", late postings, and evening news coverage from the US. If you see me on here after you've finished dinner, it means I'm being an idiot.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
101. Tweets @ ChangeInLibya - Tripoli hospitals
http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Tripoli: Hospitals have strict orders NOT TO ACCEPT anyone with gunshot wounds and to report them immediately. Only Gaddafi forces. #libya
vor 1 Stunde

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Tripoli: In fact one hospital receives around 40 to 50 cases daily of Gaddafi soldiers that were either injured or attacked #libya #feb17
vor 59 Minuten

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Tripoli: In fact, some people that were injured in demonstrations weeks ago are in their homes being treated very crudely by reltives #libya
vor 58 Minuten

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Tripoli: Hospital staff accept some cases and offer quick 1st aid treatment, but urge families to discharge patients ASAP #libya #feb17
vor 58 Minuten

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Tripoli: I personally know more than 3 people that were injured in Tripoli & were quickly rushed & smuggled out to Tunisia for trtmnt #libya
vor 58 Minuten

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
And to add insult to injury, our hospitals were never good to begin with. In fact, most hospitals can't even deal with most patients. #libya
vor 57 Minuten

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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
102. NTC's Abdul Jaleel on Arabiya: Gaddafi fired a SCUD missile on Misrata.
Mhalwes
@ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Wow. Gaddafi actually fired a SCUD missile on Misrata. Confirmed by NTC's Abdul Jaleel on Arabiya. #libya #feb17
vor 42 Minuten via web

ChangeInLibya Mhalwes
Abdul Jaleel: Today, Gaddafi's regime used cluster bombs and a SCUD MISSILE ON MSIRATA. There was a 5m deep crater in the city. #libya
vor 45 Minuten

http://en.justin.tv/almanara1702/b/284406817
arabic
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
103. Libya: Regime forces batter Misrata hours after claiming siege on hold
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 03:01 PM by tabatha
Xan Rice in Misrata and Harriet Sherwood in Tripoli
# guardian.co.uk, Sunday 24 April 2011 18.52 BST

Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi pounded Misrata on Sunday, hours after the Libyan government claimed its troops had pulled back from the besieged city to let tribal leaders try to negotiate a political resolution, or unleash a "bloody" assault.

Using multi-barrelled rocket launchers and tanks positioned at the edge of Misrata, loyalist troops fired hundreds of missiles at the city. At least six people, most of them civilians, were pronounced dead at the main hospital by midday. Dozens of injured were also treated. "There has been a lot of shelling," said Anas Rajab, a doctor. "It looks like today will be another crisis day."

...

Many rebels expect Gaddafi to make another strong attempt to take the city, but they dismiss claims that the tribes will be sent in instead of soldiers.

Ahmed Mohamed Said, a computer engineer turned rebel, said it was ruse to make the conflict look like civil war, rather than a government turning on its own people, and thus prevent Nato from assisting the rebels from the air. "Gaddafi wants it to look like brothers are fighting brothers," he said. "That will never happen."

Gaddafi's forces have faced setbacks in Misrata and the western mountain region, close to the Tunisian border. And Kaim acknowledged that loyalist troops had failed to take control of the port city after two months of siege. He said: "The tactic of the army was to have a surgical strike but, with the air strikes, that doesn't work."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/24/libya-misrata-tribal-leaders-talks

Well, there is the proof that the NATO strikes stopped the "surgical" strike by Gaddafi (probably means flattening).
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
105. The Face of Libya's Revolution
It’s not a freedom fighter atop a tank but a young bohemian woman in Benghazi reviving a carnival banned by Gaddafi and singing songs of protest. Ann Marlowe reports on an extraordinary utopian moment in the free city.

The most interesting news here in Free Libya isn’t war but peace—and cultural vitality. Signs everywhere say, “We began it peacefully and we will end it peacefully,” and the utopian social transformation is much more interesting than the stalemated war.

...

But just a few weeks later, resilient twentysomething Libyans, almost all of them working outside their professional fields, have created an embryonic civil society and culture. The shabbab cool, or cool youth, who gave the Revolution of February 17 much of its visual flavor—the witty signs like “NATO Air: Just Do It”; the homemade T-shirts and caps—have turned their energies to writing, photography, documentary filmmaking, and rock ‘n’ roll. Their inspirations and style come from global youth culture—everyone is on Facebook and Twitter—but their seriousness of purpose and maturity reflect the trauma their city recently endured.

....

On April 17, Shadda was one of hundreds of women in Benghazi who participated in an abbreviated observance of the traditional “Flower Carnival,” which Gaddafi banned in 1986. Even as Gaddafi’s troops continued to send cluster bombs into Misrata, women paraded through Benghazi to Freedom Square holding flowers.


The shabbab cool include an architect who sings in rock bands, an architecture student who used to rap, and a civil-engineering student who works on a new weekly magazine.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-18/libya-revolution-the-young-bohemian-face-of-the-uprising-in-benghazi/#
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Moussa Ibrahim al-Gaddafi interview
Edited on Sun Apr-24-11 03:33 PM by tabatha
After reading the above, and then listening to the spin doctor, one can only shake one's head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU7Pbk_sjV8

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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #105
109. Thanks for this, it's a very compelling piece...
Gotta love the empowerment of the shabbab cool of Benghazi!
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. Yep, and then I listened to the crap from
Moussa Ibrahim al-Gaddafi about how society has to change and how difficult that would be.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
111. Forget Freedom
When I first arrived at the Rixos Hotel a month ago, you never heard anyone from the regime speaking out of turn. Now it’s commonplace. A number of them think the game is up.

In a relaxed conversation about football, one of the younger minders quietly said to me “Gaddafi is bye bye…just a question of what happens first, his money runs out or the soldiers run out”. I was taken aback. He moved the conversation on before I could respond. “What was the final Manchester United score?” he asked.

At another point, when discussing how this would all end, I asked one of the more influential minders whether Colonel Gaddafi’s son Saif al-Islam could play a transitional role – leading the country while preparations were made for elections. “Fuck Saif” was his response. “He’s naive. This whole thing is his fault. He thought he could change things, but he fucked it up. Fuck Saif”.

On the day I left the Rixos, I said goodbye to one of the minders who I had always thought had reservations about being there. “You’re leaving? You’re a lucky man” he said “the day they pay me I’m gone, that’s the only reason I’m still here”.

http://blogs.news.sky.com/frontlineblog/Post:5898a48b-5870-458b-b4df-844d8943ce01
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
112. Day 67 here:
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-24-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
113. Gaddafi Dictionary
marlasinger1979‎ RT @bjoernen_dk: Gaddafi Dictionary: Cease fire = Increase fire. Election = Execution. Withdraw = Destroy. Tribes = LUNA-M. #Libya #Misrata
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