State Department wants passport applicants to reveal lifetime employment history

[upstatecajun]

The U.S. Department of State has proposed a new questionnaire that would make it almost impossible for some people to get a passport.

The new document (PDF) would require that certain applicants submit a list of every residence and every job they've ever had since birth.

In February, the department published a request in the Federal Register allowing 60 days for comment before the new rules go into effect.

"The Biographical Questionnaire for a U.S. Passport, form DS-5513, is used to supplement an application for a U.S. passport when the applicant submits citizenship or identity evidence that is insufficient or of questionable authenticity," according to a supporting statement (PDF) issued along with the request for comment.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/25/state-department-wants-passport-applicants-to-reveal-lifetime-employment-history/

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I have no idea where my mother resided a year prior to my birth. Glad I already have a passport.

[MineralMan]

11. Really? I could tell you exactly where my mother lived. I have

the address. She lived there from birth through my birth. Then, my dad got back from WWII and they moved to California. I have all of those addresses, too.

[sinkingfeeling]

17. I know she was somewhere in Columbus, Ohio, but no street address.

[Edweird]

33. Good job picking the uterus. It's a noteworthy acheivement on your part.

Those of us that chose the wrong birth canal are
rightly shit-out-of-luck. We made the wrong
decision and are suffering the consequences for it.
If I had it all to do over again I would
definitely skip the suicidal junkie mom and
abusive monster dad followed with the
on-your-own-since-early-teens upgrade.
I find your snide 'I got mine so fuck you'
attitude incredibly insulting.
Luckily I already have a passport, so I don't have
to worry - but there's no way on earth I could
pass that enhanced application. I feel for anyone
living 'on the edge' that faces that kind of
likely insurmountable challenge.

[tammywammy]

34. Do you not have a birth certificate? Naturalization papers?

This requirement is only to those without that kind of documetation.

[pnwmom]

81. This is for people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get a passport

because they can't produce a birth certificate. It gives them other ways of proving their identity. In other words, it's the freepers who you'd expect to be yelling about this, not people here.

[Cali_Democrat]

82. +1000

[LanternWaste]

36. One wonders if yours is a norm or an aberration...

One wonders if yours is a norm or an aberration.

Amongst my group of peers, it would certainly qualify as an aberration not having the memory of high school and college jobs/apartments, but we are certainly not so clever as many people imply they themselves are...

[Hannah Bell]

55. i have a general memory, but i'd have a hard time pinning down precise times/dates.

i moved a lot.

why do you think it's "normal" to have a precise memory of everyplace i lived 40 years ago? unless you just lived in one or two places, i think it's abnormal.

[pnwmom]

69. Mothers in those days often lived with their parents till they got married.

But men were less likely to. I have no idea where my father lived in the few years between college and when my parents married. With his parents? Maybe . . . . No one to ask now, and I've never thought about that before!

[MineralMan]

75. That's true. My father lived in several places, but in the

couple of years before he and my mom married, he was in the USAAF, flying B-17s. That should be sufficient information for the Passport office, I'd think.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. Me either.

I know where she was born and where she lived after I was born but not much about the dozen or so places in between.

[villager]

2. as the fascists make their moves, I guess the moral is: get passports for your kids

...before they have a "history," so they can just keep renewing 'em...

[pnwmom]

27. All the "fascists" require is a state-issued birth certificate.

This other information is only for people who can't show one.

[villager]

38. There's no invasion of privacy you won't break a leg rushing to defend, is there?

n/t

[pnwmom]

40. How is it an invasion of privacy to submit a birth certificate to get a passport?

You're certainly prone to hysteria, aren't you?

[uppityperson]

43. Showing your birth certificate is an invasion of privacy?

no text down here so don't bother reading it

[villager]

65. are you really that dense?

there's some text here, but really, you wouldn't bother reading it anyway...

[pnwmom]

67. All rudeness does is show that the rude person

can't think of anything better to say.

[Skink]

3. I can't remember my HS GPA.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. Please read closely.

"Some passport applicants". Not all. Not even most. The majority of applicants for a US passport will be able to present evidence of citizenship and/or identity. Acceptable proof of citizenship: certified copy of birth certificate; naturalisation certificate; certificate of citizenship; consular record of birth abroad. Native-born US citizens should be able to supply a birth certificate, it is not hard to obtain one for a nominal fee from the custodian of records in the state of one's birth; naturalised citizens should be able to supply their proof of naturalisation. Personally I don't see any problem with requiring proof of citizenship for passport applicants, nor do I see a problem with more stringent requirements for those who for whatever reason are unable to provide any of the other (easily obtainable) proofs of citizenship.

[Zywiec]

6. +1 n/t

[upstatecajun]

9. citizenship or identity evidence that is insufficient or of questionable authenticity,"

So who makes that decision?

[pnwmom]

28. Any state-issued birth certificate, certification, COLB is fine.

A hospital souvenir document might not be.

[SoCalDem]

63. Yep.. they rejected my husband's BC from the hospital.

This is what the whole birther nonsense is about.. Many hospitals quit giving those things out ages ago, but they used to be a part of "baby check out day"...Mom would get the goody bag from the hospital and the cute little certificate for the baby book.. the REAL one was sent/delivered to the county building & then on to the state for filing at vital statistics.. That copy & the people who tended to it could not care less how big your feet were, or how tidily the doctor signed it.

[pnwmom]

68. I know, those birthers are idiots.

And the ones who seem to think there's a difference between a state-issued "birth certificate" or "certification of birth" or "certificate of birth." Crazy!

[Gormy Cuss]

18. Read it just fine, thanks. I just don't buy the argument that applicants in such a position

wouldn't incur costs and need more than 45 minutes to complete the questionnaire.

Just because I can prove my citizenship easily doesn't mean that I should adopt a "got mine, screw you" attitude.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. 45 minutes? I couldn't do it in 45 days.

From my 20s into my 30s I often had two or three different addresses in a year. I tried to once count up my different jobs and quit at 50. Been very stable the last 15 years - only five different addresses, and two different F/T and seven or eight P/T jobs.

Can't find out where my mother lived before I was born - my dad is dead and she has Alzheimers. I know where I was born, but no idea of the address.

Why do I think this has EVERYTHING to do with Obama's birth certificate?

[Gormy Cuss]

47. Ya think?

I don't doubt that there are people who have a legitimate right to a U.S. passport yet they can't provide the basic documents for one, and I also can't imagine that they would be able to fill out the questionnaire accurately with only 45 minutes' effort. The form itself may require that little time but the research necessary to gather the info? Hell no.

[pnwmom]

52. It's no worse than the current situation, where there is no formal way

for getting a passport without standard documentation.

[pnwmom]

29. Why wouldn't a citizen be able to provide a state-issued birth certificate

or show naturalization papers?

This provides for the very, very few who would fall into that category -- right now, they can't get a passport at all.

[Gormy Cuss]

46. Obviously there have been situations or there wouldn't be the need to add this questionnaire.

The state of birth has no records because of war, no naturalization has been done because the person claims citizenship by birth (to Americans abroad, for example.) That's top of my head and I don't even work in this field.

[pnwmom]

51. Right -- so the new questionnaire actually should help people

who would have had trouble getting a passport otherwise.

[Gormy Cuss]

58. Right, if they can complete the Sisyphian task successfully. n/t

[Yo_Mama]

49. It seems like it might be a way

for people who can't come up with ID to get a passport.

I'm not sure of the procedure before (I never knew anyone who didn't have naturalization papers or a birth certificate who tried to get a passport). But there are sure to be some.

[blondeatlast]

56. Where's the fun in being rational and reading carefully?

:shrug:

[CoffeeCat]

5. My mother's pre-natal care???

I was adopted. I have no idea who my mother is.

So, adopted people can't go to Europe and run through the hills of Tuscany?

[EFerrari]

12. Hey, CoffeeCat, I want to go on YOUR vacation.

:) I've always wanted to see the Palio.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Was there such a thing as "pre-natal care" in the 50s?

I've seen pics of my mom looking like she's hiding a basketball under her shirt, with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

WTF?

[RebelOne]

31. Yes, there definitely was.

My daughter was born in the 50s. My husband was in the U.S. Army at the time and I got excellent pre-natal care at the Opa-Locka, FL base.

[pnwmom]

30. Don't you have a birth certificate? That's all you need

to run through the hills of Tuscany.

[SoCalDem]

62. When your parents adopted you, they got some sort of documentation regarding your birth

It's probably required for you to attend school, so there's a document somewhere in your family that will suffice for you to get a passport if you need one..

If you know your birth date and the state you were born in, you can go to the state's website, vital statistics page and order a certified copy online.. the "fixed" certificate after your adoption is probably the one on file for you to request.. You can even call them and they will probably be happy to help you.. It;s not free, but it's not impossible:) I had to come up with a marriage certificate for my SS/pension & the people I spoke to were every nice.. had two copies in my hands within a week @$30.00

[MineralMan]

7. This would only apply if you couldn't supply documentation

of citizenship, for pete's sake. It would be used to verify your residence, employment, and parents' status. Not that many people would need to do this at all. Not even naturalized citizens, since their naturalization certificate is adequate for a passport.

Only those people who claim birth citizenship but cannot produce a birth certificate or other suitable documents would have to complete this questionaire. I don't know about you, but I have my birth certificate, and more.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. You mean, like Obama? nt

[MineralMan]

23. President Obama has a fine Birth Certificate that meets the

requirements, so no.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. I know that, and you know that, and most rational people know that,

but I can't help but think this whole notion came out of the Obama birth certificate nonsense.

That, and a bureaucratic need by some people to know everything about everybody. Remember TIPS? Do you really think they killed that program?

[Spider Jerusalem]

45. I think that's a patently absurd notion.

Considering that the State Department is an executive department of the Federal government under the authority of the President. Congress has no authority to issue requirements like this for an executive department (see: checks and balances). So why on earth would it have anything at all to do with the birther nonsense? That's just a silly idea.

[Scurrilous]

8. FaShists!!1!

Oh wait...

[NutmegYankee]

10. This is a non-issue.

Nearly everyone can provide a certified birth certificate or naturalization certificate. This is only for that rare case where neither exists.

[ThomWV]

13. The Social Security Administration should have all the employment information they need

If a Court would let them have it.

[SoCalDem]

64. The "controversy" in this thread is all about the very few people

who somehow have no family, have lost all their "paperwork" or who may have just shown up from Neptune with no documentation, and claim to be born here:rofl:

[Vinnie From Indy]

14. How on Earth would the State Dept. be able to verify any of the info?

So, if I list that I have been an exotic Dancer for the last ten years, is someone going to check that out and verify? How many man hours would have to spent to check these new bits of info?

How about the State Dept. spend more time trying to end these criminal, outrageously expensive wars instead of compiling dossiers on Americans wishiing to get a passport!

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. That's exactly it - this has little to nothing to do with getting passports.

It has everything to do with compiling dossiers on citizens, which will be matched up with public and corporate information - school records, phone bills (including lists of all phone #s called), utility bills, etc. Oh, that includes NRA membership and CCW licenses, as well.

These all cross match with Facebook 'friends', and suddenly they know who you know, all known associates and their associates. Homeland Security will have files that will put the KGB to shame.

The only way to get off the radar is to leave the country - and to do that you need a passport.

[karynnj]

15. Two ways to read this

The first is as they did, the second is that for those without the proper paperwork to get a passport now, they have a new alternative. For the vast majority of people, it is pretty easy to get a passport. This is specifically for those applicants, who submit citizenship or identity evidence that is insufficient or of questionable authenticity.

This seems to be trying to help document poor people.

[MineralMan]

19. Here's the thing: People who don't have the documentation

required are pretty much out of luck for getting a passport now. This provides an alternative path that will let them get a passport.

Not everything is a bad thing. Today, it can be impossible for someone to get a passport if they can't produce documentation. With this, at least there's an alternative process.

[pnwmom]

26. No one who has a valid birth certificate needs to worry about this. n/t

[nichomachus]

39. Having a valid birth certificate

hasn't helped Obama with the birthers.

[pnwmom]

41. He has a passport. That's what this is about.

It's not a birther issue.

[suffragette]

32. Apparently, the DOS has not made criteria for who would have to do this public

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/04/state_department_passport_application.php

Consumer Traveler reports the State Department estimates that the questionnaire will take about 45 minutes to fill out, but that is silly. Look at this thing, a team of researchers is needed to complete it. The circumstances on who will have to take this Kafkaesque form are cloudy as well:

It seems likely that only some, not all, applicants will be required to fill out the new questionnaire, but no criteria have been made public for determining who will be subjected to these additional new written interrogatories. So if the passport examiner wants to deny your application, all they will have to do is give you the impossible new form to complete.



Wonderful. Looks like more of that particularly opaque brand of "transparency."

[pnwmom]

42. It's for people who can't produce a state-issued birth certificate

or naturalization papers. Which should be a very tiny number of citizens.

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Sorry to pop the panic bubble but there has always been policy

in place to deal with this issue. My own Mother had no birth certificate of any kind, as she was home delivered in a rural setting, working toward a century ago. Oklahoma. But no papers to prove it. To obtain her passport, which she did when I was about 12, she had to fill many requirements, deliver affidavits, names of people, places she's worked, her school records (such as they were) and all manner of crapola. It was a large and daunting project. It was the early 70's.
I just shared some of this info on a thread about birthers, just in case anyone cares to take some perspective here. The State department has to have policy for issuing passport with alternate identification, or they would have to say 'no certificate, no travel'. Would that be better? They simply can not issue a passport on the honor system, I think we can agree on that. So there have to be policies to fill the need.

[pnwmom]

44. Sorry, but those views make you a fascist.

:sarcasm:



Just ask some of the posters up thread.

[Yo_Mama]

70. Thanks for the background

I know it happens. So this is really a formalization of a longer term policy.

[Veruca Salt]

74. +1

You mom could also have a delayed birth record created for herself as well if she hasn't already with all the documentation she had to amass.

[JuniperLea]

37. I had to do the same when I obtained a securities trading license...

Plus fingerprints. Well, they really only wanted 10 or 15 years, but at the time that did include every job I ever had. And the youngsters in the group had to go back as far a jr. high to complete the form.

[Liberal_in_LA]

48. wow!

[Bonobo]

50. It is NOT Fascism!

[NYC Liberal]

54. It's fascism to ask for proof of citizenship before handing

out passports? Only people claiming they are citizens and have no other documentation (such a birth certificate) to prove it would be asked to provide employment history. Should they just be rejected and told tough luck, no passport for you?

[Bonobo]

59. Sarcasm miscommunication

I meant to imply that those that are saying it's not fascism are in denial (ie "putting their fingers in their ears")

Sorry, I agree with you.

[NYC Liberal]

53. Talk about a misleading headline

You would only need to provide employment history if you claim to be a citizen and have no proof of it.

[Mimosa]

57. A lifelong American citizen born in GA, by those rules I couldn't get a passport

My 18 years expired passport wouldn't help me. Both parents born in America, but I don't know exactly where. *grrr*

[tammywammy]

71. You can't get a birth certificate?

Because you'd only need to know all this other information if you cannot provide an appropriate birth certificate or proof of citizenship.

[pnwmom]

76. You could get one by those rules if you have a state issued birth certificate.

And I bet your expired passport would work, too, since you showed a birth certificate to get that.

[Safetykitten]

60. Well thankfully our new "life recorder" technology will solve this. Want an implant?

[Beth in MN]

61. Sounds like an agency trying to save their jobs; tried and true beaurocracy

With a bunch of unqualified politicians drunk on power running the show, anything is possible. But only a matter of time until they implode.

Another example of crazy from Minnesota.

Minnesota State Representative Steve Drazkowski (R-Mazeppa) told AFSCME Council 5 members who care for vulnerable clients that they can be replaced by baby monitors. The budget bill he supports would slash 20,968 jobs in health and human services.

http://www.mnaflcio.org/news/video-baby-monitors-instead-human-care

[pnwmom]

78. No, sounds like they're trying to give people who can't produce

a valid state-issued birth certificate (such as Obama has produced from Hawaii) a way to prove identity and get a passport.

[canetoad]

66. WHY does the State Dept. want this info?

Two possibilities:

1. Woeful reporting. The info is not required.
2. Bureaucracy run amok.

I'd be happier about the veracity of this article if I could read a departmental rationale.

[pnwmom]

77. 3rd possibility. (the correct one)

They don't need any of this unless you can't provide them with a state-issued birth certificate. If you can't, they're giving you an alternative way of showing citizenship and obtaining a passport.

[upi402]

72. Wow. Checking renewal date now...

k/r

[pnwmom]

79. Why? Couldn't you obtain a birth certificate if you had to?

This only applies to people who can't. Since you have a passport, you already had to do this at least once.

[upi402]

84. Restrictions are tightening

I have recently gone through Homeland Security's immigration gauntlet - after BushCo raised fees 380% and tightened restrictions. There's a move to restrict international travel under the guise of security, of course.

A family member's BC wa not recognized and it was a nightmare to resolve. The Department of State and Homeland Security are not on the same page. It will get even tougher as more want to get out.

I went today to get our renewal. My BC is merely a copy like the Birthers refuse to recognize. And as reasonable people are no longer in charge, I have no assurance it will be recognized in the coming days.

[Veruca Salt]

73. Key sentence: "applicant submits citizenship or identity evidence that is insufficient or of

questionable authenticity"

I don't see what the big deal is. I had to do the same when I had my Italian citizenship recognized since I wasn't actually born in Italy and it was part of verifying who I was. They do the same thing when one gets government clearance as well. So long as the applicant has a state issued birth certificate or naturalization papers then the applicant would be fine.

[pnwmom]

80. Exactly. n/t

[ck4829]

83. Regulating travel of skilled employees. Not a good sign.

Do they really care about illegal immigrants or minimum wage earners? Or do they want to find some way to stem brain drain going to Europe or India?