I'm doing a logic test: I need your definition of "pop quiz"...

[Paradoxical]

The definition given by my professor and that I hold to be true is "a quiz in that, up until the quiz is given, one does not know exactly when it will occur"

You sit down at your desk, you do not know if there will be a quiz. You are given a quiz. That is a pop quiz.

My friend defined pop quiz as a quiz given without warning.


This is important because mine and my professors argument is this:

1. A teacher, on Friday, necessitates that there will be one pop quiz next week. Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday or Friday.

2. A pop quiz could not occur on Friday because the students would know 24 hours in advance.


My friend argues that being told that there will be a quiz in one of 5 days, and even after 4 days have passed, the fact that any logical person would know that the quiz will occur on Friday does not constitute "warning".


I need to know which definition and situation you agree with.

A. My professor and I who believe that a pop quiz is not possible on Friday

B. My friend who believes that a pop quiz can occur on Friday

[Trajan]

1. Honestly .... There may be one angstrom's sunlight between both of your assertions ...

You both believe that they just 'pop' up without 'warning' ... That is what I believe too ...

I dont buy that students need 24 hours in advance ...

A teacher could say, on a Friday; "There will be a Pop quiz on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday or Friday" ... and turn around in 30 minutes and toss up the 'pop' quiz right then ...

It's the 'popping up' that makes a pop quiz, not a specific time interval after mentioning it ...

[elias49]

2. What's the difference between '24 hours in advance' and

72 hours in advance.
The "pop" occurs at announcement that 'there will be a quiz next week'.

[greyl]

4. The pop is when the teacher says "put your books away, we're having a quiz right now". nt

[Lasher]

8. Right, that's a pop quiz. After you're told it will be one day next week, it's only a quasi-pop.

And yes, I just invented the term, 'quasi-pop'.

[greyl]

3. A for sure.

To simplify, if the warning was that a pop quiz will be on next Monday or Tuesday, if Monday goes by with no pop quiz, everyone in the room with the most basic grasps of logic will expect a quiz the next day, Tuesday. (assuming they trust the teacher)

I think many of the Bs are joking at your expense. ;)

edit: or maybe B for sure, if the subject or topic of the quiz isn't revealed in advance. ;)
Shouldn't the question be all about defining "pop quiz"?

[notesdev]

5. This is an ancient dilemma

I believe the original version had tigers that would eat you if you guessed wrong (not kidding)

edit: here it is:

The Unexpected Tiger

"You're the king, father. Can I marry Michael?" "My dear, you may if Mike kills the tiger behind one of these five doors. Mike must open the doors in order, starting at one. He won't know what room the tiger's in until he opens the right door. It will be a unexpected tiger."

When Mike saw the doors he said to himself: "If I open four empty rooms I'll know the tiger's in room 5. But the king said I wouldn't know in advance. So the tiger can't be in room 5. Five is out, so the tiger must in one of the other four rooms. What happens after I open three empty rooms? The tiger will have to be in room 4. But then it won't be unexpected. So 4's out too."

By the same reasoning, Mike proved the tiger couldn't be in room 3, or 2, or 1. Mike was overjoyed. "There's no tiger behind any door. If there were, it wouldn't be unexpected, like the king promised. And the king always keeps kis word.

Having proved there was no tiger, Mike boldly started to open the doors. To his surprise, the tiger leaped from room 2. It was completely unexpected. The king kept his word after all. So far logicians have been unable to agree on what is wrong with Mike's reasoning.

[Lasher]

7. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's?

[Paradoxical]

13. There is something wrong in the logic chain...

My professors argument is 69 lines long.

Entire papers have been written on it. I just haven't gotten around to reading them.

[W_HAMILTON]

6. Paradoxical...

...are you one of those kids that, after class, I have to wait 20 minutes to speak to the professor because you two are discussing the existential meaning of a pop quiz?

[Paradoxical]

12. The class is called "argumentation and exposition".

All we do is argue like this.

[napoleon_in_rags]

9. You are right. (And more)

If a pop quiz is unexpected, than there must be a non one probability of a quiz in the time frame it is given. On Friday, the probability becomes one, so it is as anticipated as a scheduled quiz.

edit: but consider this- A professor says : There is a billion to one chance I will give the pop quiz on weds, otherwise it will be tues. Is it still a pop quiz? All certainty is probabilistic in nature. Now a third question: If the prof says the quiz will be some day next week, and a born again student prays, and jesus tells him its on weds. Due to providence or coincidence, the pop quiz actually does come on Wednesday, which the born again was certain it would. Is it a pop quiz to him?

[ZombieHorde]

10. I say neither, but you and your professor are the closest.

Your professor's version...

"a quiz in that, up until the quiz is given, one does not know exactly when it will occur"

Fixed version...

"a quiz in that, up until the quiz is given, the student(s) does not know exactly when it will occur"

The teacher(s), and other people may know, as long as the students don't know.

[Paradoxical]

11. I should have been more specific. Your definition is what I believe.

[ecstatic]

14. I agree with your friend.

As others have pointed out, it's not really a pop quiz. Anyone who plans on studying will most likely heed the first warning and study Sunday night. Anyone waiting until *after* class on Thursday to study probably won't study anyway, so the 24-hour "warning" is moot. Then again, there will probably be one or two extreme procrastinators who use that opportunity to prepare.

[Capitalocracy]

15. I've had teachers say that all the time and no pop quiz on Friday.

But it got some kids to study and everyone was relieved heading into the weekend.

[Obamanaut]

16. My professor and 'me', not 'I' nt

[Zorra]

17. Too many of the terms and conditions in the equation are ambiguous.

But:

I agree with your professor's definition.

Your friend defined pop quiz as a quiz given without warning.

The professor has already warned of the quiz, so you've already been warned. A pop quiz is no longer possible by your friend's definition.

Therefore, by his definition, a pop quiz is not possible on Friday.

Your professor defined a pop quiz as "a quiz in that, up until the quiz is given, one does not know exactly when it will occur"

By this definition, since the word exactly defines a precise moment in time, you could have the quiz at any second during the next week, and it could be a pop quiz.

Therefore, by your professors' definition, a pop quiz can be given on Friday.

Unless you know the precise, the exact moment that the quiz will occur on Friday, then you can have a pop quiz on Friday.

[joshcryer]

18. The scenario does not preclude the use of a 4 false pop quizes the entire week.

[Paradoxical]

19. Actually, it does. I just assumed no one would bring that up.

Damn you. x(

[joshcryer]

20. So we're lying about Friday.

Since if we were being truthful we'd have to say "Sometime next week, except Friday, we will have a pop quiz."

But then we've just decided to eliminate Thursday! :hi:

[Paradoxical]

24. Well not lying.

That's why I said Monday OR Tuesday OR Wednesday OR Thursday OR Friday.

In philosophical argument, having the or is very important because it means that only one of the options needs to be correct in order for the statement to be true.


I could say, the quiz will be on Monday or Tuesday or the sky is made out of cool whip.

[Motown_Johnny]

30. or the quiz being given in 2 parts, one of which is friday

[pokerfan]

21. Obviously...

a pop quiz is some kind of paternity test.

[canetoad]

22. You're having us on

Did you forget the 'Who Cares' category?

[Paradoxical]

23. That category is cast aside the moment you comment in this thread.

[canetoad]

25. Razor sharp wit?

Incisive rhetoric? Fucking lame response?

It's not all about you son.

[Paradoxical]

26. Who said it was about me?

[elias49]

27. ok socrates!

[Little Star]

28. and then if the pop quiz didn't occur on wednesday

it would not be a pop quiz on Thursday cause you would have been given notice.

and then if the pop quiz didn't occur on Tuesday it would not be a pop quiz on Wednesday cause you would have been given notice.

So maybe the only day a pop quiz can really be a pop quiz is Monday.

And then it really isn't a suprise pop quiz at all is it?

[Motown_Johnny]

29. I could argue that the announcement of a quiz removes it from the "pop" category

even if you don't tell the students exactly what day it will be given.


If we assume that in this context that the word "pop" means "surprise" then any warning would reduce it to the category of a pre-announced quiz.


I don't think I agree with either of you, but would need to ponder it a bit more to be certain.

[pokerfan]

31. Is this anything like the Unexpected hanging paradox?

:)

http://2000clicks.com/mathhelp/JokeProofUnexpectedHanging.aspx