Need Help disputing birther brother

[abelenkpe]

Hello DU:

My brother is a birther nut. Sunday he posted a link from factcheck.org that he claims is a liberal site and shows that the president is "in fact illegally in office." (His stupid words)

Yes, I know this is ridiculous. But help me please. I'd love to shut him up. He keeps blathering about some article in the constitution saying that one is illegible for office of president if they ever had dual citizenship.

Anyway this is the article he posted:

Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

(snip)The Rocky Mountain News did in fact run an online article asserting that Barack Obama holds both American and Kenyan citizenship. The article was incorrect, and the paper removed the item from the article and ran a correction. The paper's editor, John Temple, formally apologized for the error in an Aug. 15, 2007, column. Neither the correction nor the apology has prevented the column from circulating across the Internet as part of the latest set of baseless rumors that Obama is ineligible to run for president.

There was a grain of truth to what the Rocky Mountain News reported, though understanding why requires a brief history lesson.

When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

(more at link)

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He's not very bright. Is there a good simple way to make him see the light?

[PBS Poll-435]

1. FFS. Born on US Soil. (Anchor Baby!) even if his mother was Martian and his father was Kenyan/Brit

Born in Hawaii to a US citizen makes the President a natural born citizen and anyone peddling the opposite has been listening to to much radio.

[hobbit709]

2. Arguing with people like him is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

It only wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[LondonReign2]

7. Oooooo, Heinlein quote

Nice!

[theoldman]

3. Remind your brother that all of the top leaders in the Republican party

agree that Obama is a US citizen. They have much more access to information than your brother.

[CreekDog]

4. You haven't stated what needs disputing here

Obama can't "lose" his US Citizenship. But the link doesn't say that anyway.

Who cares?

[Lasher]

5. Anybody who would believe this birther shit is as stupid as the day is long.

I tire of seeing DU polluted with it.

[abelenkpe]

26. It did take him six years to get through high school

But yeah, you'd think this stuff would be long gone by now yeah? Every time someone pokes a hole in the birther thing they create some new twist to try and keep it going. The latest is that because the pres had dual citizenship (Kenyan/British) that he is ineligible for office according to some article in the constitution.

I know. Insane rubbish yeah?

[CreekDog]

6. ask him for the link about the constitution and dual citizenship

no surprise you and he don't have such a link.

[southernyankeebelle]

8. Tell him that Shep Smith Fox News just came out and confirmed Obama is a US born citizen. Now that

should shut him up.

[rurallib]

9. tell him that this is happening all over again as we speak

and his job is to stop it. If it could be done in 1961, it could be done now more easily.
May not shut him up, but it may keep him busy and out of your hair.

[mrcheerful]

10. No, even though he lost the argument by believing Obama has to prove he is a US citizen

he ignores that in US courts it is up to the accuser to provide proof that Obama wasn't born in the US. By trying to use the duel citizenship argument he again ignores the fact that no where in the Constitution is having a duel citizenship mentioned pertaining to being able to hold the office of president. He also ignores facts like being a natural born citizen of the US only requires one parent to be a citizen of the US. Birthers cherry pick and add things to make a case but in the end they can not prove that Obama was not born in the US, so they believe that Obama has to provide their proof for them, again not acceptable in US courts.

[slackmaster]

11. Why bother?

:shrug:

[Blue-Jay]

14. Precisely.

My brother & I don't talk politics anymore, and we get along much better than we used to.

[JoePhilly]

12. I have a really good way ...

The next time you expect to see your brother, tell him to bring his original birth certificate.

When he gives it to you, discuss it for a few minutes, but then say .... "Give me a second, I'll be right back" ... and walk into another room.

Then follow these steps ...

1) Hide it.

2) Take some other paper and do your best to RIP IT TO SHREDS so he hears you doing so. If you have an actual shredder, use that, it makes more noise.

3) When he comes in screaming, and he will ... tell him that he is no longer a US citizen, and then get the phone and start calling INS. After all, he doesn't have his original BC any longer.

4) As his head explodes, ask him how he plans to prove that he is in fact a citizen.

5) Depending on your birth order, tell him that you (a) weren't born when he was born and so you can't vouch for him, or (b) you were too young to remember his birth in the first place.

6) Just before he has an aneurysm and dies, give him his birth certificate back.

[Spike89]

18. Actually, no one gets the "original"

You might get the first copy, maybe even a duplicate done at the hospital, but the original goes to the state records (how else could they know you exist?)

[JoePhilly]

20. I do ...

I actually have THE Hospital original for my birth.

The one with the actual ink from my actual feet. The one where my doctor's signature is also in the original ink. Its got all the official stuff on it. Certified, raised seal, everything.

But you are still correct.

The fact that I have the original and that I can use it to prove who I am, does not matter.

The only reason I have it is because about 10 years ago, my mother retired and moved. So I went back home to help her pack. In addition to her other belongings, she has LOTS of old boxes. And we threw out lots of those without really going through them.

But in one, at the bottom, there it was. THE ORIGINAL.

But I've never needed it. Many years earlier, before we found "the original" I ordered certified copies. About 5 of them. And thus my point, and your point. The INDIVIDUAL does not maintain the records, the STATE does. My ORIGINAL is not the STATE's record, its mine.

Sure, I have my ORIGINAL, and the STATE probably has one too. Maybe they made TWO at the time. Maybe they are exactly the same. Why not? But, who cares?

The state created some other "official record" that they maintain as the OFFICIAL record. And if I request a certified copy THEIR record is the critical record.

The point is that even though I have the original, it doesn't really matter. What if I lost it (or some one destroyed it).

The STATE maintains the actual records.

Which means the person in the OP could actually DESTROY the birther brother's original, and it would not matter, other than the sentimental loss. But doing this might just shake the poor brother loose of the insanity that grips him.

[Botany]

13. To some the idea that Obama is not a real American ....

.... lets them get out of bed in the morning and go through their day and not admit that a
black man is POTUS. So this might be useless but you might try this list on him

So the following groups all missed that Obama was not born in America?

The CIA, the FBI, the IRS, the INS, the NSA, Social Security, the Secret Service, Occidental College, Columbia University, Harvard University,
the University of Chicago Law School, the Illinois State Senate, the Illinois State Police, the US Senate, the US Capital Police Department,
the KGB, MI-5, the Mossad, and the republican party opposition research group all missed that Obama was not born in Hawaii.

And if you say fine they all missed it then you would also have to think that a person went back in time to some hospital in Hawaii and either
to take the call from or called the Hawaii Dept. of Health and gave them all the correct names and times for the real life births and deaths that
day in the hospital along w/ the fictions birth announcement of one Barack Obama.

[abelenkpe]

27. That's actually a pretty good comeback

I'll try it. Thank you! :)

[MineralMan]

15. Just roll your eyes and delete whatever that nonsense

came in. You'll never convince him of anything. It's not worth the attempt.

I hid one brother-in-law on Facebook over this kind of crap. I just don't see his nonsense any more.

[abelenkpe]

23. Yeah I hid him already though

problem is when others post responses to his lunacy I'm notified of their posts. I really only use facebook so that family back east and abroad can see pics of the kiddos. But you're right it's probably a waste of time.

[lpbk2713]

16. I can empathize.

You can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.

How well I know. :eyes:

[Jack Rabbit]

17. Talk about the weather instead of politics

Anybody who believes in birtherism will believe in the tooth fairy if there is a right wing point to be made.

[Mojeoux]

19. I think the majority of birthers are just racists who have a code.

It's obvious some of these people have to be too smart to really BELIEVE this shit. But it's fun for them to secretly and smugly be racist and just say "birth certificate" over and over.

[abelenkpe]

22. Yeah I know what you mean

He'd swear he isn't a racist, but for someone who isn't a racist he sure does repeat a lot of bigoted jokes and say a lot of bigoted things. Makes me glad I live 3200 miles away.

I don't think he's in the smart but knows better camp. More like the not so smart gullible Rush Limbaugh listening fool camp.

[rox63]

21. You could try this - CNN investigation: Obama born in U.S.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/25/birthers.obama.hawaii/index.html

[EstimatedProphet]

24. Here's the best way to discuss this with your brother:

the next time he talks about it, point at him and laugh. Talk about how clearly you got all the brains, and he got all the stupid. Every word he speaks, laugh at. Loudly. Make silly faces at him. Make fart noises in your armpit. Make weird noises, and if he has an accent make a really exaggerated imitation of it.

You won't ever make him see the light. He has his eyes closed to tightly. So, if he's going to keep bringing this crap up, then you have to assume he's doing it to piss you off - so piss him off instead and maybe he'll quit.

[Warpy]

25. Short answer? No.

You can change opinions but you can't change an irrational belief. The more evidence you offer that contradicts it, the more firmly the believer will cling to it. The sillier the belief, the more firmly the believer clings to it.

It's a losing game.

About the only thing I've ever found that works is to say "You bought that?" and walk away laughing. They get that often enough and they learn to shut the hell up and that is an improvement.

However, they'll still cling to the idiocy and there is nothing you can do about it.

[HopeHoops]

28. Does he know where HIS birth certificate is?