I can't imagine how anyone would believe this will shut up the birthers or Trump.

[Poll_Blind]

All this does is show that the President and his advisers have just lent credence to some of the most absolutely absurd allegations levied against a sitting president in my lifetime. I mean come the fuck on. Who the fuck is advising the president to make him think this is a good idea?

I think it was LBJ who said something to the effect of "I want to start a rumor that my political opponent murdered someone, just to hear them get up in front of the press and deny it."

That is exactly what happened this morning.

What's next, his baptism records to prove he's a Christian?

This is a very politically-insecure move and I could not be more puzzled by why the collective thought in the Whitehouse felt it was necessary to ensure this racist bullshit got a paragraph in the history books by actually capitulating and releasing a document which none of the critics will accept, anyway. Think about that. What does that actually say about the Whitehouse (because a move like this cannot be placed entirely on Obama's shoulders) strategists that they would go along with this?

Remember when that fuckface Roberts swore in the President and Roberts fucked up the oath of office? How can anyone forget that? And do you remember that later the President was sure to have a second swearing-in, just in case their might be any doubt about his Presidency?

Dude, you've been in power 2 years. You are the fucking president. It doesn't matter if you're a reptoid from the hollow Earth. You are in Kirk's chair so start acting like Kirk! If you've been kowtowing to Republicans out of insecurity, if that is the cause of all my consternation over the last 12+ months- Jesus, Mary and Joseph. It would be more comforting to just believe that you're a DLCer than...what...a coward? An approval whore? What?

At this point in the movie an elderly female figure would grab him by one of those big damned ears and lay into him to snap him out of this shit. No such luck I guess. Good grief.

To those who really think this shut anyone up or put a nail in anything's coffin, you've got to be kidding me.

PB

[CrownPrinceBandar]

1. It won't.

[Poboy]

2. Just another cave-in to the lunatics.

[Poll_Blind]

9. I just can't see the reason for this. It's like him submitting DNA to prove he's human.

How can anyone at the Whitehouse laugh off the birthers as absurd if they capitulated to their demands?

:shrug:

Oy gevalt! What the fuck is it going to be like in 2012 if it's this crazy now?

PB

[Raschel]

16. ...."submitting a DNA to prove he's human"... don't give them any ideas!

I share your sentiments, I thought this would be a bad idea too but, hey what's the first Black President to do?

I can't imagine being in his spot, he's handled being first excellently. I'm very sad that it came to this.

These effers are getting worse as his Presidency goes on.

[Poll_Blind]

32. I am so emm-effing glad you asked "What's the first Black President to do?"

He's supposed to fucking sit there and dare them to question his legitimacy and fucking crush them politically or make them wish they'd never been born when they do.

PB

[VWolf]

3. The purpose of this was not to shut them up

This was a calculated political move, and I, for one, believe it will pay off in the long run.

[still_one]

17. I agree. If the repukes continue to pursue this, they will actually cause damage to their party

[Poll_Blind]

18. Ok, so what's the calculated political move and for Pete's sake tell me how this...

...pays off in the long run?

PB

[VWolf]

37. Just my opinion ...

once the media started jumping on this issue (thanks Donald, you asshole), it was inevitable that Pres Obama would need to do this. Otherwise it would just continue to escalate. The average joe's out there, who tend to be more impressionable, would start giving credence to the birther movement. Indeed, I've got some local anecdoctal evidence to that end. We'll see if this de-fuses the issue. I think it will, at least for the majority of Americans. The loony birther fringe will always be loony.

[Poll_Blind]

39. Do you really, in your heart of hearts, feel that the Truth would ever stop these people?

Trump: Not going to stop.
Birthers: Not going to stop.
Average Joe: I would argue, and I'm serious about this, that any "average Joe" who really believes the president might not be an American citizen is not an "average Joe" and is a birther. Once someone has moved into that whole realm of birther bullshit, how much crazier is it to believe that he's a madrassa-trained mole, designed to take out the American government from within? I mean, at some point you have to go "These people have adopted ideas which are so crazy, changing their opinion isn't worth anyone's time. And, by adopting such absolutely disconnected world views, it's likely that nothing sensible will be as attractive to them as the phantasmagorical fantasy world they believe to be Reality."

PB

[MrCoffee]

36. What, pray tell, might that "calculated political move" be?

Care to fill in the blank?

[VWolf]

41. Actually, what I meant to say was

the timing was calculated.

[center rising]

4. Course not

Nothing will satisfy these racists. Trump is their mouthpiece. Problem is Trump is an asshole of the first degree.

[Poll_Blind]

33. My thing is, Trump is an absolutely scurrilous parasite. He will take this...

...and twist it up and use it to continue his attacks. For somebody like Trump this is more food at the table(!)

PB

[vi5]

5. Yes, but I also can't believe anyone believes...

..that they can "negotiate" with the republicans.

But yet here we are. Some people are just desperate to please and to get those who will never approve of them, to do so.

[Poll_Blind]

38. I've said this before and I've caught a little heat for it, but I'm right:

There's nothing wrong with negotiating with people you disagree with. Thankfully some of our senators and house members do work together with people on the other side. And that's true bipartisanship, and that's all well and good.

But these aren't republicans this release is meant to satiate. The only people who are claiming that Obama still isn't an American citizen are doing it not out of anything grander than they can't stand to have a black man heading the country- and I will go to my grave believing that. The birther movement is purely racist. There is no other explanation, much less a "legitimate" one, IMO. And so that's why I'm so damned confused. Capitulating to these people just gives them more steam that their cross-burning quest had some merit, some payoff, to begin with.

PB

[Richardo]

6. ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=661108&mesg_id=661129

[Hutzpa]

7. Well if we keep getting threads after threads on speculative

assertions on what birthers think or are going to do then WE as a community has failed miserably.

[Poll_Blind]

40. Whatever. Neither the birthers or Trump are going to drop this and you know it.

You do. You totally know the least thing they would ever do is drop it.

PB

[Hutzpa]

44. It is our job to make them drop it

when you see a thread with a link started by someone making assertions on Obama's BC you jump
on it and you stop it.

You look for innuendos and satire on the subject and you go after them as hard as you can.

[Poll_Blind]

45. I think we're talking about different scopes here. I'm talking about on a national media level.

Why, seriously, why this gets any airplay at DU is beyond me but people like discussing how crazy the Palins and the birthers and the Trumps and the Becks of the world are- I'm not immune to it- but at some point, like with Trump, it's like "Look, this dude is yanking your chain and he wants the airplay from the outrageous statements. Why help him out?"

Like, and this is purely hypothetical but I'm sure this type of thread has crossed DU: Somebody comes in and point-by-point refutes the birthers. That's great and I bear no ill-will twoard the poster who feels it necessary to defend the President's legitimacy as an American (period) by doing that.

But also, I feel like if you respond to shit like that, you're admitting that the argument has some remote validity in the first place- and it's giving people like that validity (they will turn anything into ammunition) that is so blindingly counterproductive.

PB

[Hutzpa]

53. I disagree on giving validity to the issue

when he doesn't respond they say he should, when he does respond they say he should not.

What that tells me is that this is not about his birth certificate it is about the fact
that he is black and he is the President of the United States.

[Poll_Blind]

54. Totally agree, and that's why...anyone...should know this is futile.

Until the day he pulls off his skin revealing a white republican underneath they are never going to stop. Never. Look at the unending bullshit Clinton had to put up with. Unending. And Clinton was just an honorary black president! :)

PB

[Hutzpa]

57. That is also the reason why

I said the media need to stop reporting on the issue. Whenever we see them covering we send an email
reminding them of the important issues this country is facing.

[Thunderstruck]

8. It won't. But it will make them look even crazier and not to be taken seriously.

[Poll_Blind]

11. But dude, can you possibly say with a straight face that anyone except lunatics took them...

..seriously in the first place?

I mean Orly Taitz or whatever her name was set the tone for this imbecility. I just don't get who the Administration feels they're winning over or legitimizing themselves in the eyes of with this.

Let's face it, the only way he's ever going to make the birthers happy is by turning into a middle-aged, affluent white Republican.

PB

[tularetom]

10. Of course it won't but it might make our liberal media feel stupid

He sorta pulled the curtain on them.

Like "Why are you covering this crap when we have such serious problems? You should be ashamed of yourselves."

[Poll_Blind]

15. They have no shame. They will fill the air with pieces about "What's next for the birthers?"...

...rather than move on to something worthwhile. If they want to cover this shit, they'll cover this shit and they'll find some excuse to spend airtime on it.

PB

[still_one]

21. The media have kept this alive, and given it credibility, they should be ashamed of themseleves /nt

[still_one]

12. It wasn't the administration that lent "credibility" to this garbage, it was the media, and their

constant coverage of it

You are most likely correctly it won't stop it, and the media will continue to be facilitators of this

The reason why this was released is because trump was getting practically 24/7 coverage on this, and in some well documented interviews, i.e. NBC, they didn't even question trumps assertions

When the media constantly questions his citizenship day in, day out, idiots who hear this will start to believe it

Releasing the birth certificate will NOT hurt the administration, it most likely won't help either, but possibly might, especially if other repukes continue to bring this up

[Raschel]

24. Exactly! The media gave all of these people a platform to slander a sitting President.

From Baaaaakman, to Trump etc.

It's like "up next, Baaaakman asks for proof of the earth's rotation".

[spanone]

13. damned if you do, damned if you don't....he called them for what they are....

[nc4bo]

14. You have a wonderfully imaginative way with words!

And no, they will not STFU. I'm being emailed "proof" that the BC isn't real because it lacks a state seal and some other nonsense.

Now if only these brainiacs would just figure out how to stop a nuclear devastation from happening............

[Broderick]

19. It won't shut up the die hards

But it will ease the tension building on the issue amongst those that don't pay attention much. Trump amuses me, like a clown.

[Bragi]

25. Exactly! /nt

[LynneSin]

20. Only thing that could shut up Donald Trump is crazy glue to the mouth

and even that I have my doubts

[Poll_Blind]

46. Everything else is just more gasoline for his attention engine.

PB

[Bragi]

22. This was a good move, should have happened 2 years ago

It will convince anyone who was suspicious and felt the allegations may have some truth in them simply because Obama refused to release the BC so as to quell the controversy.

This was not an inconsiderable number of people, as this poll showed:

http://www.pollwatchdaily.com/2011/04/21/a-plurality-of-republicans-and-a-quarter-of-all-americans-dont-believe-obama-was-born-in-the-u-s/#more-196

[Poll_Blind]

47. I will meet you halfway on this and tentatively agree, but I'm still not convinced it would...

...have been a good move then. I mean, it is still a wonder at all (to me, even though I strongly disagree with many of the President's actions nowdays) that he got elected. Remember the chick with the backwards "B" she carved onto her face a few days or a week or something before the election? Jesus.

I read that article and I'm ashamed, deeply, for America. I'm not above it, I'm not some special American. Somewhere, indirectly, it's my job, our jobs to fix this bullshit because nobody else is going to. But the reality of the disconnect out there can be, at best, depressing.

But back to your original point: At least if he released it two years ago, it would have had a much greater, a monumentally greater, quelling effect than its release today does.

PB

[Bragi]

50. You wrote:

I will meet you halfway on this and tentatively agree

Hey, this is the Interweb. Meeting people half way is just not done.

:)

[Poll_Blind]

52. LOL, it usually freaks people out when I change position and agree with some...

...statement they've made, after they've provided a reasonable reason why I should. I find it's terribly disarming and confusing to anyone who's spent any length of time on the internet, heh heh!

PB

[Bragi]

58. That's a diabolical tactic

Maybe DU should pull any postings expressing newfound agreement so the parties can have whatever is the opposite of a cooling-off period.

- B

[RC]

23. President Obama is the Head of State of a major world country.

Does any rational being really think he would have been sworn in if he did not meet the Constitutional requirements?
The Birthers prove just how stupid people can be.

[Poll_Blind]

48. And there's the rub: By ponying it up, especially now, it seems like they've...

...achieved some victory, had their demands met, in this racist quest of theirs. And that is just going to be a springboard for Trump et al. to make more allegations. For instance, I don't know if you caught this but Trump made some comment a few days ago that Obama wasn't smart enough to get into Harvard.

With an allegation like that, what is the best thing to do?

:bluebox: Publicly produce your grades at Harvard
:bluebox: Ignore it

In that situation as in this one, ignoring it, rising above it, is the only way to go- because any other path just leads to more allegations that you will be expected to respond to. And at that point, they're leading him around by the nose. Anyone who falls for that bait eventually winds up being led by the nose. That's the whole point of the tactic in the first place.

PB

[suffragette]

64. You've summed up the way I view this in this post

There's the rub, indeed.

[kestrel91316]

26. I understand his frustration and why he decided he had to do this.

But it won't shut them up for even 5 minutes. They will claim this "long form" birth certificate is a forgery.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poboy]

43. Was that person, or ANY of us saying he should 'say something' on this stupidity?

No one here, so your 'suspicion' is bullshit.

[Poll_Blind]

49. I have never even remotely given any credence to that trash, nor criticized him for...

..not responding. Not responding is the only way to win the game. The moment you put chips in, you start losing.

Frazzled, you in so many words said that I'd be the first to find fault with him nomatter which of the options that he took and that posters like me are just like birthers.

That's offensive and uncalled for. It's a nasty conflation and you know it, but it serves a purpose for you, doesn't it?

PB

[Iggo]

28. It won't, but their arguments will become stupider and stupider. (n/t)

[Broderick]

29. Time for Trump

to show us those Tax Returns!

[TheKentuckian]

30. +1 because you can't fix stupid

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edbermac]

34. It won't shut them up. And it will make the birthers look even more nuttier now.

Score one for Obama.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

35. I think the real purpose was to shut up the media and call them out for their hand in all the lunacy

As the President said, "I know that there is going to be a segment of people for which no matter what we put out, this issue will not be put to rest," Obama said. "But I am speaking for the vast majority of the American people as well as for the press. We do not have time for this kind of silliness. We have better stuff to do. I have got better stuff to do. We have got big problems to solve."

So, yes, there will still be "birthers" out there. He acknowledged that fact. However, the objective was met in pointing out to the press how they've not pursued this previously resolved non-issue since 2008. That is until some asshat full of hot air and with more money than sense decided to lead them around by their noses. Which they let him do without pause. All in all, I'd say it was a good mornings work.

[Poll_Blind]

55. Technically you're right. Except for the fact that people like Roger Ailes exist.

And, and this is my point, none of this is going to change any one or (in light of what you're saying) shame any news organization into acting differently if they are still on-board with the birthers.

I see your point. I understand it and if politics were a game with sensible rules and some hint of morality, I would look at this as a more pragmatic move. But name for me any news organizations who have been toeing the birther line, who you think are going to change their coverage one iota because of this document's release.

Now, if they want to start hardballing the press like Bush and start cutting out access based on continued coverage of the birther/Trump angle, that could be effective. But I've yet to see that happen.

PB

[Lone_Star_Dem]

59. I think cutting out press access would be a horrific idea.

I oppose that with Obama as much as I did with Bush. Not that I think Obama would ever stoop to that level. He, unlike Bush, can handle any question they throw at him.

As to what I expect to come from the media after this, I do expect some small change and no acknowledgments on their part in this at all. Not so much in cable news, and none at all from FOX, of course. I do expect the topic will no longer be brought up in the daily press briefings. I expect you'll not see any network news querying the issue anymore. They'll all give Trump his last say on the matter, but that's going to be it. Major newsprint will also begin pointing out how he did provide the document as proof when they cover a high profile birther story. Oh, and you're going to be seeing a lot less high profile birther stories in the future even from FOX. Foreign press will be sure to point out how our first African American president was forced to show proof, again, that he was a US citizen. They'll all then feign shock that Americans are so racist. That's another thing I think may come out of this, you may actually see a few cable news talking heads here in the US start calling the entire affair out for being racist. I say might because it depends on how embarrassed they are by having resuscitated a non story. I think there may be a tiny handful who may realize it wasn't their best career move ever. After all, FOX can only hire so many of them and NEWSMAX is not exactly a step forward, even from cable news. Despite the lure of the internet for many of us, I'm positive they don't want to end up as bloggers.


BTW, sorry for the delay in answering. For some reason my original post isn't in "my post" feature.

[mwb970]

42. Did you mean to be kidding about the baptismal certificate?

I've already read many calls for that, and also his college transcripts, presumably to be followed by his summer-camp attendance records, his genome, and his DNA.

Anyone who thinks these clowns will just accept this and "go away" is engaging in wishful thinking. They will believe the birther BS till the day they die.

[Poll_Blind]

56. Sure I'm kidding about the baptismal certificate- but they wont' be. I even...

..posted another thread which was titled something like "That font wasn't available for typewriters until 1964!" which is basically pulling a Dan Rather-gate-esque expose' on the released document.

It doesn't matter whether it's true or not. Just that there's a shovel to move it and mouths above the trough to feed off the slop.

The Administration's release of this document doesn't quell anything, and it puts the Administration on the defensive which against birthers and Trump, they should not be.

PB

[ck4829]

51. They should continue being loud, it may be a liability to them

Tea Party groups are now trying to run away from the non-issue as fast as possible.

[Blue_In_AK]

60. If there's any doubt that you're correct,

read some of the comments to the Anchorage Daily News article on this. The production of this birth certificate will NOT shut them up.

http://www.adn.com/2011/04/27/1830881/obama-releases-long-form-birth.html

[Poll_Blind]

61. I just got a chance to check on that. Disgusting. I am ashamed that there are...

..enough people who follow this sick line of thinking that they pop up so (seemingly) frequently.

Then again, it is Palin country so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

PB

[Blue_In_AK]

62. We do get a lot of trolling at our newspaper, though,

so there's no way to guarantee that these are all Alaskans.

[JuniperLea]

63. Did anyone believe that?

All I heard from the get go was that it won't matter because birthers will find some other imaginary problem.